Author Topic: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)  (Read 3479446 times)

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2700 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 17:56:10 »
Why are Cherry ABS caps so difficult to pull off?!?!?! I know, I know, that's just how they are, but I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to put them on some spare switches a few times to loosen them up or if this would be a waste of time. Granted my plate allows for removable switch tops, but I opened up at least three switches on my Poker when pulling off six caps and I don't like it :(

Edit - I need to know before my purple GMK mods arrive lol

I have noticed that caps seem to hold to the stem a lot firmer to my clear stems than any other stems I have.  Which would be blues, browns, and reds.  But I noticed this with both ABS and PBT caps.  But I haven't pulled any switch housings apart and my clears are PCB mount.

Incredible! I'm using Ergo Clears, so that probably explains why not too many others understand what I'm talking about. Anyway, this totally makes sense. Thank You :)

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2701 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 18:49:56 »
Clears have some funny indent in the stem that seems to act as a locking latch. Now that you mention it I do remember having a terrible time pulling the caps off of the WEY EK2000 I got. I am sure the caps had never been removed ever from it before me. I think I even pulled a few whole switches out of the PCB on that one.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2702 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 19:50:25 »
Uh-oh, I've got some brand new Clears coming in soon--will have to investigate!
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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2703 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 19:53:31 »
Uh-oh, I've got some brand new Clears coming in soon--will have to investigate!

This only happens with brand new cherry ABS doubleshots. Thick PBT can sometimes cause one side to pop out, but I've never had the whole switch top pull off like this with any other kind of keycap including used cherry ABS doubleshots.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2704 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 20:23:35 »
Thank you--good thing I'm going for R2 dye sub PBT sets then!
----
Regarding using a keyboard with a plate without the top cover (namely, a Filco)--I can't quite tell if the plate is electrically insulated and could be touched while the keyboard is plugged in without the risk of shocking anything in the controller or such.  That is for testing the keyboard after I swap LEDs or change switches without putting the top back on but still plugging it in through USB.  Could anyone clarify, please?
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2705 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 20:33:20 »
Thank you--good thing I'm going for R2 dye sub PBT sets then!
----
Regarding using a keyboard with a plate without the top cover (namely, a Filco)--I can't quite tell if the plate is electrically insulated and could be touched while the keyboard is plugged in without the risk of shocking anything in the controller or such.  That is for testing the keyboard after I swap LEDs or change switches without putting the top back on but still plugging it in through USB.  Could anyone clarify, please?

Should be a non issue.  If you have any sort of electrical contact with the plate than you have bigger issues
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Offline BlueBär

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2706 on: Sun, 23 June 2013, 07:53:15 »
Thank you--good thing I'm going for R2 dye sub PBT sets then!
----
Regarding using a keyboard with a plate without the top cover (namely, a Filco)--I can't quite tell if the plate is electrically insulated and could be touched while the keyboard is plugged in without the risk of shocking anything in the controller or such.  That is for testing the keyboard after I swap LEDs or change switches without putting the top back on but still plugging it in through USB.  Could anyone clarify, please?
Isn't the controller of a Filco sat between the top cover and the plate? That's how it is in WhiteFireDragon's Ergo Clear Mod video, see 6:30.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2707 on: Sun, 23 June 2013, 12:29:06 »
The controller is on the PCB, not on the plate.  It does not really touch the plate.
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Offline BlueBär

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2708 on: Sun, 23 June 2013, 12:45:00 »
Yes I know but wouldn't that stay out in the open then? That doesn't seem safe to me, but maybe I'm a bit oversensitive.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2709 on: Sun, 23 June 2013, 12:46:51 »
You can touch the plate of a Filco. You can even touch the controller while it's plugged in. I used a filco without a top cover for a while and quite often accidentally touched the controller and plate. Nothing happened.

Clears have some funny indent in the stem that seems to act as a locking latch. Now that you mention it I do remember having a terrible time pulling the caps off of the WEY EK2000 I got. I am sure the caps had never been removed ever from it before me. I think I even pulled a few whole switches out of the PCB on that one.

Do you mean like this? Sorry for the grainy photo.



Every colour switch I have has an indent like this : white, blue, red and dark grey as pictured.
« Last Edit: Sun, 23 June 2013, 12:54:50 by Photekq »
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Offline tns

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2710 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 00:26:00 »
About RealForce

I saw on a sign :
Quote
Realforce 87u all-30g
edit : I got it... it's a custom ;o
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40545.msg805160#msg805160

but I read on Deskthority
Quote
The 89 is unique among the tenkeyless Realforce models in that it is the only keyboard that comes in uniform 30 grams weighting.

Are they both same kind of?

Also I don't even see that kind of 87U on Deskthority wiki :s

edit : ok i got it it's a custom :o
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 June 2013, 01:51:22 by tns »

Offline tns

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2711 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 01:10:09 »
where to find all TopreReal forces diagram schemes?
edit : layout weight
like this one




« Last Edit: Mon, 24 June 2013, 02:23:29 by tns »

Offline khaangaaroo

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2712 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 01:52:33 »
Here's a force diagram from overclock.net. Not sure who made it or how accurate it is though.


On the Deskthority wiki, you can click on the "Key Weight" column to sort by weighting.



The 89S is the only TKL with all-30g and only comes in JIS layout. I took the domes and put them into a 87U Silent. There is no manufactured 87U with all-30g.
There are several full-sized all-30g keyboards, but only the 104 Pro is ANSI. The 108UDK seems to be the cheapest to buy as a donor board for 30g domes.
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 June 2013, 01:54:35 by khaangaaroo »

Offline khaangaaroo

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2713 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 02:22:43 »
where to find all TopreReal forces diagram schemes?
edit : layout weight
like this one
Show Image


That was the weighting for one of the custom Realforces I made. I colored the diagram based on where I put the domes.

All the variable weighted 87U's that I have taken apart originally had something similar to this:


Sometimes 30g was used instead of 35g. I also received a JIS board that had the '2wsx' keys feel like 45g instead of 40g. So there were variations in how the variable force Realforces were weighted based on the model. There's no resource that provides weight layout diagrams for all of them. Many of the ones you see online were measured by 002 or estimated by me comparing the domes to one another. See thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44067.0

Offline Larken

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2714 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 02:30:46 »
I concur on the clear stems thing.

I used the same caps on several keyboards before, and the clear switches are the ones that seem impossibly tight. Pulled the top housing off a couple of times (probably didn't help that the latches are probably looser from having opened them several times), but I'm pretty sure there's something going on with the clear stems thats not happening the other switches.
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Offline therecorder

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2715 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 02:35:06 »
I have 5 Clear boards (all plate mounted), and have never had any problems...  Strange.

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2716 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 02:35:58 »
When I did my ergo-clear mod, the clears I got were super tight compared to any other switch/stem I've used
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Offline therecorder

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2717 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 02:39:46 »
Perhaps it depends on where the switches originate from, or how old they are...  Different batches from different years may vary.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2718 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 08:02:55 »
Hate to do this but can we migrate the stem fit discussion to a separate post? I'm afraid it's getting lost in this thread.

Offline therecorder

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2719 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 08:29:20 »
OK by me...

Offline Melvang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2720 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 08:57:27 »
Need a little help with some nomenclature.  What exactly would be the component that I would need to control the brightness of LED's via a knob?  Also any suggestions on values that i would need for controlling one of these.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2721 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 08:59:03 »
Need a little help with some nomenclature.  What exactly would be the component that I would need to control the brightness of LED's via a knob?

Potentiometer. :)
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2722 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 09:01:32 »
Dorkvader and I were messing with LED brightness on his KMAC last night. Well...mostly Dorkvader. Anyways, I *think* you just need a resistor that can carry the max voltage/amperage. But the catch is Dorkvader was doing the control through the software and not a knob.

Edit: I didn't see jdcarpe's post above mine. You should probably go with his info over mine but I'll leave my text up just in case.
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 June 2013, 10:28:21 by CPTBadAss »

Offline Melvang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2723 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 11:32:24 »
Alright thanks guys.  Any idea if an old volume control from a 40 year old Fisher receiver might work?  Not sure if that works off the same internals or not but after I can get it pulled apart what numbers would I be looking for on a multi-meter?

Edit:  Ok, I got the volume control out of the receiver and the numbers on the side of it are as follows
200140-(oriental symbol of some fashion)100KΩW and down on the side it says (another oriental symbol)50KΩAX2  Now this particular piece does have volume and balance in the same unit with the balance being on the collar and volume as the stem
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 June 2013, 12:13:45 by Melvang »
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Offline linziyi

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2724 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 15:39:31 »
Where can I get two costar stabilizer? I mean the white "stem", I have the wire.

Particularly for spacebar if that's needed for some reason.

Thanks in advance!
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Offline Photekq

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2725 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 15:40:39 »
Where can I get two costar stabilizer? I mean the white "stem", I have the wire.

Particularly for spacebar if that's needed for some reason.

Thanks in advance!
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Offline linziyi

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2726 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 15:41:58 »
Thank you very much!!
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2727 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 15:42:25 »
Thank you very much!!

It's also in the OP...

Offline linziyi

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2728 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 15:43:23 »
...Unfortunately the shipping is 10 times the actual product... so maybe I should get it from some other key on the keyboard
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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2729 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 15:57:07 »
Why are Cherry ABS caps so difficult to pull off?!?!?! I know, I know, that's just how they are, but I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to put them on some spare switches a few times to loosen them up or if this would be a waste of time.

I know this was on the last page, but since there were mentions of it, I thought I'd comment. Modern clear switch stems are much tighter on any caps, so it's a lot harder to pull the off.

Now most people do not know this, but SP PBT caps are the tighest caps for any stems. If you combine that with new clear switches... it's over, you're never getting them off (assuming you can even get them on in the first place).

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2730 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 15:59:50 »
Why are Cherry ABS caps so difficult to pull off?!?!?! I know, I know, that's just how they are, but I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to put them on some spare switches a few times to loosen them up or if this would be a waste of time.

I know this was on the last page, but since there were mentions of it, I thought I'd comment. Modern clear switch stems are much tighter on any caps, so it's a lot harder to pull the off.

Now most people do not know this, but SP PBT caps are the tighest caps for any stems. If you combine that with new clear switches... it's over, you're never getting them off (assuming you can even get them on in the first place).

Thanks for your input, and OMG that's scary!!!

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2731 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 16:04:58 »
I'm referring to PBT specifically from SP, and modern clear stems. Any other PBT caps or stems would be fine though.

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2732 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 18:35:48 »
Why are Cherry ABS caps so difficult to pull off?!?!?! I know, I know, that's just how they are, but I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to put them on some spare switches a few times to loosen them up or if this would be a waste of time.

I know this was on the last page, but since there were mentions of it, I thought I'd comment. Modern clear switch stems are much tighter on any caps, so it's a lot harder to pull the off.

Now most people do not know this, but SP PBT caps are the tighest caps for any stems. If you combine that with new clear switches... it's over, you're never getting them off (assuming you can even get them on in the first place).

Thanks for your input, and OMG that's scary!!!


I put my nyan set (a sp pbt set) on my nearly new clear springs. I think I mounted on a cherry set before the nyan but other than that, none. They weren't that bad for me to pull off.
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2733 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 20:54:47 »
MX Clear.  Looked the same as an MX Black switch I compared it to.  But perhaps the cross part was a tad thicker itself vs. the one on MX Black.





(I can put these into a separate thread).
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 June 2013, 20:56:41 by Photoelectric »
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2734 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 20:56:43 »
Please please please move this discussion to a separate thread. This discussion will get lost in a week or two.

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2735 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 20:59:29 »
Please please please move this discussion to a separate thread. This discussion will get lost in a week or two.

Ehhhh it's right here lol - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37620.0

Number one hit for "site:geekhack.org tight clear" and sorry for not searching for this before :p

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2736 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 21:02:57 »
It's fine Sisbot, but that thread doesn't have lovely pictures or anything. It'd be a shame to have info buried in here.

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2737 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 21:04:59 »
It's fine Sisbot, but that thread doesn't have lovely pictures or anything. It'd be a shame to have info buried in here.

I'm actually kind of embarrassed that this applies to the only switch that I love lol. I'll put a detailed thread together if someone else doesn't within a few days, promise :)

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2738 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 21:08:02 »
I'm actually kind of embarrassed that this applies to the only switch that I love lol. I'll put a detailed thread together if someone else doesn't within a few days, promise :)

If you do that, please let me know. I'll link all the replies from here over to your thread. ^__^

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2739 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 21:57:23 »
This whole issue with Clears is kind of interesting and doesn't really make sense to me.  I just took some calipers to Clears and found them to be the same size on their x and y axes (axis label
More
) as Browns, Reds, and Blacks, or at least close enough that it shouldn't make a difference.  That said, I did notice that the Clears and Blacks were a little thicker on the bottom half of the y axis than the top (bottom half on the y axis, not the z axis), a little thicker than the y-axis on Reds and Browns.  So, logically, if caps seem to fit tighter, it can't be because they're a little bigger.  If that were the case, that problem should also befall Black switches, but it seems it doesn't.

Offline therecorder

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2740 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 22:03:59 »
Perhaps it's the finish/composition of the Clear stems that is different.

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2742 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 22:07:28 »
Continuing the MX Clear stem discussion here.

Thank you. Please refer to that thread to continue the discussion guys. I just don't want this to be lost in 2-3 weeks when there's another 5 pages of questions to wade through.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2743 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 22:33:05 »
Any ideas on at least a ballpark range of numbers for ohm values in a used potentiometer to be used as a dimmer for a USB powered LED strip?
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Offline linziyi

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2744 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 10:47:57 »
Are these similar to the MX green spring? And if I buy them how many do they come for $8?

https://www.originativeco.com/80g-springs
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Offline Photekq

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2745 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 10:53:55 »
Are these similar to the MX green spring? And if I buy them how many do they come for $8?

https://www.originativeco.com/80g-springs
They will be quite a lot lighter. They aren't as heavy as clear springs and clear springs are about 3/4 as heavy as green springs. You get 100 iirc.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2746 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 10:54:23 »
Are these similar to the MX green spring? And if I buy them how many do they come for $8?

https://www.originativeco.com/80g-springs

I think they're heavier than the MX Black springs but lighter than the MX Green springs. All of the Custom Spring seem to be between the stock switch actuation forces.

You get 100 springs.

Edit: Photekq sniped me and I think he's got the better info.

Offline linziyi

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2747 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 10:56:50 »
:O so clear switches have even heavier spring? I thought they have 65g peak force?
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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2748 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 11:04:48 »
:O so clear switches have even heavier spring? I thought they have 65g peak force?

The bottom out force on Clears is supposedly really heavy. I forgot how heavy, the DT wiki or Cherry should have it. I'd recommend you just wait until the tour comes or getting your hands on some springs and testing them for yourself.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #2749 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 11:17:00 »
:O so clear switches have even heavier spring? I thought they have 65g peak force?
Korean springs are measured at bottom out force while Cherry springs are measured at actuation. There's a thread about this somewhere but I can never remember the name.

Basically a 60g-ish korean spring = same as springs in blues, reds, browns. If there were a 100g korean spring then it'd be about the same as a clear spring. Clears are 55g and greens are 80g so you'd be looking at a korean spring that's quite a lot over 100g (which doesn't exist).
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 June 2013, 11:18:40 by Photekq »
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