Author Topic: GMK white/dark grey US/GB full set + 'Gamer' add-on {Closed}  (Read 244246 times)

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Offline BimboBB

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #150 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 10:12:37 »
EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.

thats done in every normal groupbuy and the result is....that ANSI users get their standard keycap set and everyone else just dont buy it, because no one wants a half baked set of keycaps with dozens of blanks. In 7bit's R4 the orders between ANSI and non-ANSI users were 50/50. In yr suggested GB the orders will be splitted as usual....90/10....guess why?

Absolutely dont understand all the whining here. You get more than 200 keys which can be used on nearly every frickin Layout (hello GH60, hello Phantom). Of course its more expansive this way. If you just want the very limited standard sets, there are other sources for. This GB is intended to make lots of unique and non-standard keycaps available and not to find the smallest compromise in terms of economical sense. Yes, there will be keys which you dont use....guess what...thats intended! If you feel bad about this you might want to stick around somewhere else. 

Offline bueller

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #151 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 10:29:33 »
EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.

thats done in every normal groupbuy and the result is....that ANSI users get their standard keycap set and everyone else just dont buy it, because no one wants a half baked set of keycaps with dozens of blanks. In 7bit's R4 the orders between ANSI and non-ANSI users were 50/50. In yr suggested GB the orders will be splitted as usual....90/10....guess why?

See what I highlighted there? Furthermore, comparing this GB to 7bit's is completely pointless. GMK's MOQ is a million times worse than SP.

Absolutely dont understand all the whining here. You get more than 200 keys which can be used on nearly every frickin Layout (hello GH60, hello Phantom). Of course its more expansive this way. If you just want the very limited standard sets, there are other sources for. This GB is intended to make lots of unique and non-standard keycaps available and not to find the smallest compromise in terms of economical sense. Yes, there will be keys which you dont use....guess what...thats intended! If you feel bad about this you might want to stick around somewhere else. 

I don't care how much this set costs. I will buy it regardless. The problem is finding 400 people who are willing to do the same. If we don't get 400 people then NO-ONE gets a set.

Considering how passionate people are about this I'm not hearing a lot of solutions from many others. Plenty of negativity though.

« Last Edit: Sun, 22 September 2013, 10:35:49 by bueller »
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline digi

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #152 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 10:44:13 »
EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.

thats done in every normal groupbuy and the result is....that ANSI users get their standard keycap set and everyone else just dont buy it, because no one wants a half baked set of keycaps with dozens of blanks. In 7bit's R4 the orders between ANSI and non-ANSI users were 50/50. In yr suggested GB the orders will be splitted as usual....90/10....guess why?

See what I highlighted there? Furthermore, comparing this GB to 7bit's is completely pointless. GMK's MOQ is a million times worse than SP.

Absolutely dont understand all the whining here. You get more than 200 keys which can be used on nearly every frickin Layout (hello GH60, hello Phantom). Of course its more expansive this way. If you just want the very limited standard sets, there are other sources for. This GB is intended to make lots of unique and non-standard keycaps available and not to find the smallest compromise in terms of economical sense. Yes, there will be keys which you dont use....guess what...thats intended! If you feel bad about this you might want to stick around somewhere else. 

I don't care how much this set costs. I will buy it regardless. The problem is finding 400 people who are willing to do the same. If we don't get 400 people then NO-ONE gets a set.

Considering how passionate people are about this I'm not hearing a lot of solutions from many others. Plenty of negativity though.



I believe that's what people were trying to discuss, what to take out of the group buy to reduce the price? What else can be done to lower the cost?

It simply costs too much, its not going to make a MOQ of 400 as is. Maybe if its also posted on DT?

Offline BimboBB

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #153 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 10:45:52 »
EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.

thats done in every normal groupbuy and the result is....that ANSI users get their standard keycap set and everyone else just dont buy it, because no one wants a half baked set of keycaps with dozens of blanks. In 7bit's R4 the orders between ANSI and non-ANSI users were 50/50. In yr suggested GB the orders will be splitted as usual....90/10....guess why?

See what I highlighted there? Furthermore, comparing this GB to 7bit's is completely pointless. GMK's MOQ is a million times worse than SP.

Yes, the MOQ is a problem....nothing new. Just wanted to show you what will happen if you make a GB like you suggested. Reducing it to standard ANSI, I would recommend to cancel this GB at all. Commercial resellers can do this job better, there is no need than for such a GB.


Offline bueller

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #154 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 10:50:00 »
EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.

thats done in every normal groupbuy and the result is....that ANSI users get their standard keycap set and everyone else just dont buy it, because no one wants a half baked set of keycaps with dozens of blanks. In 7bit's R4 the orders between ANSI and non-ANSI users were 50/50. In yr suggested GB the orders will be splitted as usual....90/10....guess why?

See what I highlighted there? Furthermore, comparing this GB to 7bit's is completely pointless. GMK's MOQ is a million times worse than SP.

Yes, the MOQ is a problem....nothing new. Just wanted to show you what will happen if you make a GB like you suggested. Reducing it to standard ANSI, I would recommend to cancel this GB at all. Commercial resellers can do this job better, there is no need than for such a GB.



Yeah that was a poor choice of words, obviously we keep the ISO mods but something needs to be done about the other non-standard keys to get this GB to fruition.

It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline bazemk1979

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #155 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 10:52:30 »
EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.
I also have an idea: If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ISO get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.
See what I did there?
Or rather, see what you did there?


This ANSI/ISO bullshiit has to stop. Those are just physical layouts, not language layouts...

ISO is needed, problem is languages differ on all 0-9 keys above the alphas, seems that every language has different legend for the numbers 0-9, you cant replace those with blanks because per key you will lose 2 legends, also keys such as {[}|\:;"'<,>.?/ they all differ from one language set up to another. If Ivan claims that he will lose 100 customers from the GB cause of this then he might have a point...

I took 10 min of my time and did some basic changes, did not change anything in the language packs, I guess all language packs are needed. I do know 1 thing for sure, no matter whats changed in this GB if Ivan don't bring everything together as a full set, the GB wont reach MOQ, it is bound some if not all language packs to fail...

But here are the changes that were more obvious to my eyes, because these 3 sets were overbloated with BS bling bling keys!!!
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 September 2013, 12:46:32 by bazemk1979 »
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 08 January 2014, 18:02:50

When you bottom out dong cap... is it going balls deep?

Offline gojira54

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #156 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 11:02:07 »
hmmm that's pretty lean - nice job at going for a viable 'lite' base :)

Offline bueller

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #157 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 11:06:44 »
hmmm that's pretty lean - nice job at going for a viable 'lite' base :)

Yep, looks good. I count 110 keys, if we can get a language pack that comes in around 100 keys I think we have a winner. Reducing the pack by 100 or so keys should definitely help bring the price down to a reasonable spot.

Definitely agree on bringing it all together as one set as well.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline BunnyLake

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #158 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 11:06:58 »
i really want to see what the final sets are gonna be before ordering, not that im saying they would need to be changed to place an order, i just want the final set in stone sets and prices, and i think once its fixed, whether it changes or not, lots of order will come in, lots of people will wait to see how sets chance before committing i would think
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Offline danielucf

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #159 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 12:26:30 »
R4 ran for over a year didn't it? If ivan was willing to do the same thing with this group buy and go for the second tier of GMK pricing this would be great. Target every keyboard selling avenue, maybe even partner with a keyboard manufacturer like Coolermaster or Corsair and see if they want to release some higher end keyboards with quality keycaps for a change.

I do like the idea of supporting the other language packs but I don't like the idea of forcing people to buy keys they don't want. I think if you make a really nice ansi set and run it for a long enough time you may be able to convince GMK that if they want to sell you 400-500 sets to do a limited run of 100-200 language packs. Realistically we need to be convincing GMK to lower their MOQ. Or at least throw us a bone on one set if we get other parts to break the 400 MOQ.

How long did the purple mods/cmyk run for?
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Offline bazemk1979

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #160 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 12:48:45 »
hmmm that's pretty lean - nice job at going for a viable 'lite' base :)

Yep, looks good. I count 110 keys, if we can get a language pack that comes in around 100 keys I think we have a winner. Reducing the pack by 100 or so keys should definitely help bring the price down to a reasonable spot.

Definitely agree on bringing it all together as one set as well.

Actually 108 keys, since I removed the options of the placement for the Caps lock - CTRL I removed them both ways. There are maeby 5 people at the most who will use this and bumps the price at least $15 because modifiers are expensive and they are not ordinary modifiers.

Also left from 1 set the windowed R4 x1 keys and the other set R4 Fn key for the cheat layout. But those can be removed to save up a little since we have 3 blanks R4, those 3 blanks can be combined with 1.5's and get the cheat layout, also can be used for the Cherry boards, forgot which one was it, I think the newer version of the 1800? the one called Raptor that was for gaming but also they had normal version of it
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 September 2013, 12:52:38 by bazemk1979 »
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 08 January 2014, 18:02:50

When you bottom out dong cap... is it going balls deep?

Offline pix3l_fodder

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #161 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 12:49:31 »
I do like the idea of supporting the other language packs but I don't like the idea of forcing people to buy keys they don't want.

Welcome to the world of the non ANSI user


Offline bueller

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #162 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 12:50:07 »
hmmm that's pretty lean - nice job at going for a viable 'lite' base :)

Yep, looks good. I count 110 keys, if we can get a language pack that comes in around 100 keys I think we have a winner. Reducing the pack by 100 or so keys should definitely help bring the price down to a reasonable spot.

Definitely agree on bringing it all together as one set as well.

Actually 108 keys, since I removed the options of the placement for the Caps lock - CTRL I removed them both ways. There are maeby 5 people at the most who will use this and bumps the price at least $15 because modifiers are expensive and they are not ordinary modifiers.

Fair call. I'm a CTRL swapper myself but everyone has to make small sacrifices :)
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline bazemk1979

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #163 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:01:39 »
hmmm that's pretty lean - nice job at going for a viable 'lite' base :)

Yep, looks good. I count 110 keys, if we can get a language pack that comes in around 100 keys I think we have a winner. Reducing the pack by 100 or so keys should definitely help bring the price down to a reasonable spot.

Definitely agree on bringing it all together as one set as well.

Actually 108 keys, since I removed the options of the placement for the Caps lock - CTRL I removed them both ways. There are maeby 5 people at the most who will use this and bumps the price at least $15 because modifiers are expensive and they are not ordinary modifiers.

Fair call. I'm a CTRL swapper myself but everyone has to make small sacrifices :)

In order to bust down some prices small changes can be made, so far I'm just playing around with the modifiers and navs since alpha can not be trimmed any more. I also removed some more bling, like the R4 windowed blank and R4 Fn key because we are leaving the R4 x1 blanks and they are 3 of them, plenty for the Cheat layout and Raptor/1800 versions of the Cherry boards. Leaving the R1 x1 windowed blanks because they are lots of Duckies boards out there with the 4 extra keys above the numpad and they all have LED's.... possibly there will be more boards like that coming out seem to be popular, also TrikX has them keys too, not many TrikX boards but at least 25 of them, and who knows how many boards Ducky sold in 108 format, thousands?.....

Here is so more fat trimming, I LIKE IT!!!! Way less busy, kicks down the price for sure, removed the bling keys, but yet we haven't affected any layout at all. Looks much leaner, clean and still covers all layouts out there:

- Cheat layout ( 1.5-1-1.5 x7)
- Standard layout ( 1.25 x6.25)
- Winkeyless layout ( 1.5-1.5 x7)

« Last Edit: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:06:32 by bazemk1979 »
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 08 January 2014, 18:02:50

When you bottom out dong cap... is it going balls deep?

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #164 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:02:10 »

Smallest can be made with shifted punctuations numrow without starting to strip out languages.
Can we live with this usability wise? I'll have the pricing later which is obviously still going to be a determining factor.

Nothing will be removed from the MOD pack. Those things are in there for a reason, either for necessity or because there was a lot of request for them and the savings there would be very small.

From my experience, you set a reasonable time table on orders and if it doesn't reach the MOQ then it probably won't. Also not having a hard time table, makes people less likely to order because they tell themselves they will do it later, but don't usually.
Vendors are welcome, as I said before I think. If manufacturers used GMK we wouldn't have to try and organize groupbuys to replace their **** quality keycaps they do use.

The last GMK buy had a 2month order collection, which was extended because MOQ had not been met, and still wasn't technically when it ended since we got a 1 time break on it from GMK.
Believe me, I have done a lot of begging and pleading for GMK to make their MOQ less, but I am fairly sure they never will.

Offline bazemk1979

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #165 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:16:54 »
Show Image

Smallest can be made with shifted punctuations numrow without starting to strip out languages.
Can we live with this usability wise? I'll have the pricing later which is obviously still going to be a determining factor.

Nothing will be removed from the MOD pack. Those things are in there for a reason, either for necessity or because there was a lot of request for them and the savings there would be very small.

From my experience, you set a reasonable time table on orders and if it doesn't reach the MOQ then it probably won't. Also not having a hard time table, makes people less likely to order because they tell themselves they will do it later, but don't usually.
Vendors are welcome, as I said before I think. If manufacturers used GMK we wouldn't have to try and organize groupbuys to replace their **** quality keycaps they do use.

The last GMK buy had a 2month order collection, which was extended because MOQ had not been met, and still wasn't technically when it ended since we got a 1 time break on it from GMK.
Believe me, I have done a lot of begging and pleading for GMK to make their MOQ less, but I am fairly sure they never will.
Ivan you are the GB leader, you do what you think is best and what you believe will make feel people feel comfy to order. I see you did some trimming and if people are ok with it than great. But fact is the trimming I did in the modifiers and Navs it pretty much kicked down $50+.....

Something tells me you want the modifiers, maeby I'm wrong but when people pleaded with you to leave the standard Cherry Window key on the PBT dyesub set you plain and simple said NO, I like Win8 logo and that's the way it stays.

Why don't you get 2 price tiers? price for having all mods and navs as they were and price with trimmed navs and mods.

Your trim and my trim should bring down the prices quite reasonably

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 08 January 2014, 18:02:50

When you bottom out dong cap... is it going balls deep?

Offline ___q

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #166 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:37:33 »
Ivan you are the GB leader, you do what you think is best and what you believe will make feel people feel comfy to order. I see you did some trimming and if people are ok with it than great. But fact is the trimming I did in the modifiers and Navs it pretty much kicked down $50+.....

Something tells me you want the modifiers, maeby I'm wrong but when people pleaded with you to leave the standard Cherry Window key on the PBT dyesub set you plain and simple said NO, I like Win8 logo and that's the way it stays.

Why don't you get 2 price tiers? price for having all mods and navs as they were and price with trimmed navs and mods.

Your trim and my trim should bring down the prices quite reasonably

Dropping the fn, windowed keys, and caps-lock-row ctrls would be a shame, they're what really makes this mod pack interesting IMO.  Even in the absence of the rest of the things in this GB, that mod pack looks absurdly useful even at its price point.  And, removing the blanks may not be worthwhile, since they're almost free.

Offline danielucf

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #167 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:51:45 »
I do like the idea of supporting the other language packs but I don't like the idea of forcing people to buy keys they don't want.

Welcome to the world of the non ANSI user

Then in the world of the ISO user run a group buy and don't support ANSI. Or try to support them both separately in one buy.



If you are a minority you don't get catered to, that is the way of the world. When I travel abroad I try to learn some of the language and customs where ever I go, and do not expect people to know how to speak English. If R4 was able to have 50/50 orders between English and other languages with so many set options then it should be possible to pull off one set across all those languages, maybe ask for R5 to be a GMK buy.

This is posted at deskthority so I don't see a reason to force ansi users to buy GB/JA/BR/MX language pack. It might make more set options available but you could have an alpha that would not have anything that an iso layout wouldn't want and completely separate the language packs to the regions where they are needed. Then you at least give the option to the nice or wealthy people to help out if they want to, and the selfish or not-wealthy can still do their part for MOQ on what the majority want.

I know it is ideal to have as few options as possible, but in this case if there were 6-8 sets split up everyone could buy exactly what they want and not get anything they don't want (both ways between ansi and iso layouts). Additionally if something was falling short then you would at least know how to market it and where to make up the difference. I'm not sure how the sets come from GMK, but I thought it was one key type per bag and all sorting is done by the purchaser. The only reason to simplify sets is to force people to buy things they don't want, and to carry the minority.

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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #168 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:52:45 »
Blanks 1.25 are pretty important for JIS and useful as Fn keys on many keyboards too. The windowed keys and spacebars added €10 over the price we paid last time. I suppose we can remove the black spacebars, but I really wouldn't want to take away anything else.

I'm starting to feel like the only way I can do this, is to list each goddamn key separate... It's like the only way some of you will be happy at all with anything.
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:59:54 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline bazemk1979

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #169 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 14:17:47 »
Blanks 1.25 are pretty important for JIS and useful as Fn keys on many keyboards too. The windowed keys and spacebars added €10 over the price we paid last time. I suppose we can remove the black spacebars, but I really wouldn't want to take away anything else.

I'm starting to feel like the only way I can do this, is to list each goddamn key separate... It's like the only way some of you will be happy at all with anything.

as some people think and as you said so earlier removing some keys they are practically free. I honestly doubt that, I moved away pretty much all the bling keys, all the repeating keys but still kept all possible layouts, no layout was left behind me thinks.

Only difference is the price, but why don't you get quote with trimmed Mod's and Nav's  and get price without trimmed Mod's and Nav's and let the people decide for themselves by voting. I'm not trying to push the issue, just want to bring another option to the table and see what people think, not just 5-6 of us what we think, but what the majority think and votes at the end.

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 08 January 2014, 18:02:50

When you bottom out dong cap... is it going balls deep?

Offline pix3l_fodder

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #170 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 16:49:24 »
Blanks 1.25 are pretty important for JIS and useful as Fn keys on many keyboards too. The windowed keys and spacebars added €10 over the price we paid last time. I suppose we can remove the black spacebars, but I really wouldn't want to take away anything else.

I'm starting to feel like the only way I can do this, is to list each goddamn key separate... It's like the only way some of you will be happy at all with anything.


I agree, keep the mod pack the way it is... if not just keep the 1x FN key, blank windows of R4 x1 and 1.25 and a windowed caps.

« Last Edit: Sun, 22 September 2013, 16:51:54 by pix3l_fodder »

Offline Elrick

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #171 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 18:21:59 »
The last GMK buy had a 2month order collection, which was extended because MOQ had not been met, and still wasn't technically when it ended since we got a 1 time break on it from GMK.
Believe me, I have done a lot of begging and pleading for GMK to make their MOQ less, but I am fairly sure they never will.

Just do the best you can.  If this doesn't take off then what can we do?

Again, if you give what the US citizens want then the Europeans miss out on customizing their keyboards but if you provide keys for everyone, then the ANSI crowd will protest.  Ivan, this is a perfect "damned if you do - damned if you don't" situation  :-\ .

Offline Halvar

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #172 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 04:47:36 »
In my opinion, Ivan was right with his decisions on how the different sets should look and how they were seperated. A lot of reasonable thought went into this, and it was discussed at legth in the IC thread. I vote for trying to do this GB exactly as Ivan proposed it and see where we get MOQ-wise.

What I see here are mainly people who are trying to make it cheaper by slimming it down in the direction of the set they are interested in. I'm against these compromises. I find it especially unhelpful if people who only use ANSI standard layouts and are catered to by Originative  and every single GB on this board are trying to slim this GB down. That is not what this one is about. For me, this alpha set as well as the Mod set are about the people who have more special wishes helping each other out to reach MOQ.

Also, this GB isn't mostly about the full set. It's mostly about the modules. Many people will only want a full flexible Mod set, or a ful international alpha set to combine with existing caps.






Offline baldgye

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #173 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 04:55:10 »
In my opinion, Ivan was right with his decisions on how the different sets should look and how they were seperated. A lot of reasonable thought went into this, and it was discussed at legth in the IC thread. I vote for trying to do this GB exactly as Ivan proposed it and see where we get MOQ-wise.

What I see here are mainly people who are trying to make it cheaper by slimming it down in the direction of the set they are interested in. I'm against these compromises. I find it especially unhelpful if people who only use ANSI standard layouts and are catered to by Originative  and every single GB on this board are trying to slim this GB down. That is not what this one is about. For me, this alpha set as well as the Mod set are about the people who have more special wishes helping each other out to reach MOQ.

Also, this GB isn't mostly about the full set. It's mostly about the modules. Many people will only want a full flexible Mod set, or a ful international alpha set to combine with existing caps.








Well said

Offline Elrick

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #174 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 05:30:31 »
Also, this GB isn't mostly about the full set. It's mostly about the modules. Many people will only want a full flexible Mod set, or a ful international alpha set to combine with existing caps.

Exactly, stand up and listen to this man.  This GB is unique hence keeping faith with Ivan's original intention of providing as much flexibility as humanly possible.  Even though I don't need many of the International Caps I still bought them/hoping to buy them for this venture.

Halvar is the only one that has hit the nail on it's head.  But then again he seldom misses it  8) .

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #175 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 05:48:38 »
Yes, the entire idea is components. I didn't ever want to intend to be viewed as a full set, though you can make a full set if one wishes...
I got pricing for the big unified alpha pack which would be €71 / $96.
The other thing we could do, that may appease most people is make the base set US/GB. Then we can have a DE/DK/NO/SF pack since they have most in common including many of 3rd legend keys on the numbers, Then a ES/BR/JA/MX/PO set as they have more in common with each other. Perhaps drop IT as there was not much support and has the most keys that don't share with another... though Danish has little support it's only a couple keys different than NO. Also, perhaps make pack GENERIC, which takes out all the blanks and the generic numbers and put them into a set? I think many people may still find those useful, but not to force to have them as part of base which will take it's key count down.
That way each of the language pack have less keys that won't be useful to the buyer and a cheaper price. The only thing is I am not sure about reaching the MOQ for each.
What do you think about this plan?

Offline biochem

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #176 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 06:36:09 »
I got pricing for the big unified alpha pack which would be €71 / $96.
The other thing we could do ...

What do you think about this plan?

I would go with a big unified alpha pack.  If you break the alphas up into different language packs then meeting MOQ becomes a concern.

I appreciate all the effort you've put into this group buy and support your efforts to be inclusive.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #177 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 06:56:07 »
It may or may not be a problem... I think many of the people are not buying because there is too much extra stuff (they don't want to pay this much), or too much things they want cut if we went for the unified alphas with all language. It's really insanely hard to get anything workable, like wrangling rabid cats.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2013, 07:00:54 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #178 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 06:59:58 »
It may or may not be a problem... I think many of the people are not buying because there is too much extra stuff (they don't want to pay this much), or too much things they want cut. It's really insanely hard to get anything workable, like wrangling rabid cats.

Evil genius!

Offline YongJK

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #179 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 07:01:26 »
can we know the progress so far ?
how many sets were ordered
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Offline bazemk1979

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #180 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 07:36:53 »
It may or may not be a problem... I think many of the people are not buying because there is too much extra stuff (they don't want to pay this much), or too much things they want cut if we went for the unified alphas with all language. It's really insanely hard to get anything workable, like wrangling rabid cats.
Ivan give this GB the original run, try with the way you started it in the first place, all the different packs no fat trimming anywhere and see where you end up after a month.

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 08 January 2014, 18:02:50

When you bottom out dong cap... is it going balls deep?

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #181 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 08:44:45 »
If we go in this direction, the changes that would be made:
BASE with US/GB:


GENERIC:


MODS:


NAV:


German/Nordic


Japanese/Portuguese/Spanish


For you that use these layouts everyday, please check I didn't miss anything, make mistake.

There is a little redundancy between the two, but I think it will be less grief this way since they can each stand alone, and not add 'bloat' to the base US/GB set without more *****ing.
Hopefully with smaller cheaper set, it will still not be an epic battle to reach the MOQ and everyone can be OK with the lesser prices and not having to buy so much stuff you may not use.
I will have pricing on these shortly.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2013, 10:59:12 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline input

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #182 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 09:06:30 »
Those sets would be awesome, coming from an Englishman's prospective :D
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Offline danielucf

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #183 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 11:25:52 »
Just curious, would anyone be upset if they only had windowed caps lock keys and none without windows? That right there is probably another $2 off.

I was also thinking most people that swap caps lock and control are probably so used to it that they don't need to actually have the legends for it. Just an idea, they all add up.
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Offline SnipeStyle

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #184 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 11:27:09 »
Those sets look much better imo. I would definitely buy 2-3 of them.

Offline esoomenona

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #185 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 11:29:15 »
I don't even know why you would care to offer broken down sets. Breaking them apart GUARANTEES they don't make MOQ. Just cut them from the pictures to look at and be done with it.

Offline ___q

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #186 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 11:30:49 »
Just curious, would anyone be upset if they only had windowed caps lock keys and none without windows? That right there is probably another $2 off.

I was also thinking most people that swap caps lock and control are probably so used to it that they don't need to actually have the legends for it. Just an idea, they all add up.

The legend on the windowed capslock is printed, not shot -- I assume a good number of people prefer fully doubleshot legends to having the light shine through better.

And, most people who use a keyboard are probably so used to it that they don't need legends at all, so why not just make this a blank set :p

Offline esoomenona

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #187 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 11:33:13 »
How about $2 is not that big of a deal? I'd rather have them both.

Offline badcop

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #188 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 11:36:12 »
muuuuuch better.  TY ivan
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Offline pix3l_fodder

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #189 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 11:58:00 »
Just curious, would anyone be upset if they only had windowed caps lock keys and none without windows? That right there is probably another $2 off.

I was also thinking most people that swap caps lock and control are probably so used to it that they don't need to actually have the legends for it. Just an idea, they all add up.


The legend on the windowed capslock is printed, not shot -- I assume a good number of people prefer fully doubleshot legends to having the light shine through better.

And, most people who use a keyboard are probably so used to it that they don't need legends at all, so why not just make this a blank set :p

Are the printed ones cheaper? I actually want a windowed caps lock (as well as an FN, but its not on offer) but either way, windowed keys are damn hard to come by and would be an epic shame for them to be cut for $2.

Offline danielucf

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #190 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:03:44 »
Ah, I didn't realize that windowed meant not doubleshot on these. I'd even prefer both then.

Also concerning cost, you would be surprised about peoples mental barriers on prices for things. Sometimes that extra $1-5 makes the difference between buy or not buy. Why do you think so many things are $N99.99 ($399.99 instead of $400 for instance).
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #191 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:26:28 »
This is true. We should add $0.99 to all the prices. Makes things easier to digest.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #192 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:28:06 »
This is true. We should add $0.99 to all the prices. Makes things easier to digest.

Let's just subtract $0.01 then people will be all over it since it's discounted.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #193 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:39:46 »
This is not meant to be a quick and easy I want a 87set ANSI ok goodbye type of thing. Don't even think of this as a full set at all. It is PARTS. Building a full set out of this is OPTIONAL. Focus on the components, and how much they offer in flexibility. Sets were designed to fit pretty much all the common current boards, vintage boards, and quite a bit on the custom front from 60% to 122 keys.
We don't all use the same language, same operating system and certainly not the same keyboards.
Hopefully I have this down where people don't feel like they are being hurt on price by what others need now, and it should not effect being able to buy what you need/want if you want to pay for it (provided it makes the MOQ).

For those interested in the language packs, well place an order and we can see how fast we get to MOQ instead of thinking no one will order it, why bother. Amazing right?


Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #194 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:42:50 »
Ivan have you posted this over on DT?

Offline gojira54

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #195 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:48:03 »
I hope this split will work for most peeps - it does for me anyways & I'm in :)

Offline input

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Offline pix3l_fodder

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #197 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 13:20:27 »
Yes there is a discussion over at DT.

[edit]
See link above

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #198 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 13:22:15 »
Someone can still post it at KBD, OTD, I don't have accounts there. Also please post about it on any other regional computer/gaming or whatever forums where it would be relevant/allowed.

Offline TaNaKa$_

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Re: GMK white/dark grey and black multilanguage sets
« Reply #199 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 13:40:55 »
The idea with the split sounds like great. I am in.
I'll post it on my work on a delevoper forum. I hope the GB will start.

Ivan great work. :thumb: