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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: DuckPig on Tue, 11 August 2015, 06:20:00
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Hi
I am very happy with my Ducky Shine 3 TKL, thanks again to all members who helped me to find a good keyboard :thumb:
So until a few days I have never cared about so called "O-Rings" but a friend of mine told me that they protect the metal-plate on the keyboard, so my question: Do O-rings increase the lifetime? Are there any other advantages?
Thanks in advance :)
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The metal plate in my Ducky doesn't seen so waferish it needs protecting...
I've only seen two reasons for wanting to use o-rings: quieting the keys on bottoming out, or wanting to lessen the shock of bottoming out. Any comments about longevity seem to revolve around how long the o-rings will last, as they're a wear item and will eventually degrade. And I've done a lot more reading about o-rings than I'd care to mention :-[
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Personal opinion incoming: O-Rings are terrible and make a good keyboard feel like garbage.
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Personal opinion incoming: O-Rings are terrible and make a good keyboard feel like garbage.
+1
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I lile some o-ringa, they make it more quiet to type on the keyboard. But its a taste thing
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With my experience with one set of O-Rings (transplanted from a G710+), no, absolutely not worth it. Makes the keyboard feel odd (not bad, just odd). 10/10 would not buy again.
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Seems like I dont buy these O-rings expect they will increase the lifetime...
as a beginner: Does my mechanical keyboard need some special care?
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O-Rings aren't going to increase the lifetime of anything, unless you don't use it because it feels so horrible, then I guess it would last forever. :))
I don't maintain my mechanical keyboards any differently than a non-mechanical keyboard, really. Don't get it wet, keep it reasonably clean, don't store it with the keys depressed (like, if you put something on top of it) or in a damp location. There is really nothing to it.
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Personal opinion incoming: O-Rings are terrible and make a good keyboard feel like garbage.
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Agreed. They mage it feel mushy and more wobbly.
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Seems like I dont buy these O-rings expect they will increase the lifetime...
as a beginner: Does my mechanical keyboard need some special care?
I don't do any sort of regular maintenance to my keyboards. Whenever I have keys off changing the set, I will take a can of compressed air and clean out the cat hair and such that tends to accumulate between the keys.
I do try to avoid eating/drinking around my keyboards as much as possible, mostly to reduce the risk of a spill causing damage.
In my experience, except for my rosewill board (known issue with the USB connector), I would say that mechanical boards are no less sturdy than cheap rubber domes. Just use it for typing, and treat it with the level of respect that matches the amount of money you spent on it.
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O-rings are crucial for me because I absolutely cannot deal with the travel distance of mechanical keyboards (fatigues my fingers like crazy).
When I slapped on some o-rings on my Pok3r with browns suddenly everything was right with the world. It feels absolutely fantastic.
But you do need to buy the right kind of o-rings. I bought these ones from Keyboard Co (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards-blue.asp). I've also tried some cheap ones from Amazon and they weren't as nice.
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Personally, I've found that they profoundly increase the feel of certain keyboards/switches to a certain extent. This is, however, a personal opinion and everybody has their own!
My all-time favourite application of them would probably have to be with my Nighthawk X9 fitted with Cherry MX Red switches. B)
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I bought a set and instantly dislike them, just too mushy. I doubt they do any kind of protecting, keep in mind cherry switches weren't intended to ever been used with o-rings, that just came around as an aftermarket mod to quiet the switches
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I can't use mx without them since
1. I think 4mm travel distance is just too far and strains my fingers.
2. I dislike the clack, it's loud and cheap sounding.
I use these (only ones with the right travel distance reduction for cherry profile caps imo)
http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1774
They are not mushy in my opinion (they are the smallest functional width available for this use so it doesn't have much space to give in).
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I use O-rings almost only on MX Blue, to silence the clack. I think that when pressing a clicky switch, there should only be a distinct click sound at actuation. The clack sound is too similar so it distracts and confuses. ("two clicks?").
I think mechanical switches should cushion the stroke after actuation. That's why I use mostly Clears. They don't need O-rings because I don't bottom out.
Anyway. There have been many threads on this topic already, and I repeat myself.
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I use the .2mm rubber o rings from WASD keyboards solely to reduce the sound from bottoming out and it works great. The keys do feel a bit different when bottoming out but I don't mind it.
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I prefer to trampoline mod all my switches, so I have a softer bottom out (without mushiness) and I can use any keycaps on them and retain the same bottom out feel.
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The results in this thread are quite interesting.
For those that have used/currently use o-rings, would you say that o-rings increase or decrease the stress on your hands?
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The results in this thread are quite interesting.
For those that have used/currently use o-rings, would you say that o-rings increase or decrease the stress on your hands?
I find my fingers / hands / wrists less stressed with orings / trampolines, especially with linear switches. Tactiles there's a little less difference, since I have the tactile bump telling my subconcious to stop adding force, so I don't bottom out hard on those and sometimes not at all.
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I really like putting o-rings on my spacebars, but not really any other keys. I think it's because I started on a Zowie Celeritas that came with browns, except for the black switch on the spacebar. Got used to a linear switch there, and o-ring gives it that extra bit of cushion and makes it sound a little nicer IMO.
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I really like putting o-rings on my spacebars, but not really any other keys. I think it's because I started on a Zowie Celeritas that came with browns, except for the black switch on the spacebar. Got used to a linear switch there, and o-ring gives it that extra bit of cushion and makes it sound a little nicer IMO.
The results in this thread are quite interesting.
For those that have used/currently use o-rings, would you say that o-rings increase or decrease the stress on your hands?
I find my fingers / hands / wrists less stressed with orings / trampolines, especially with linear switches. Tactiles there's a little less difference, since I have the tactile bump telling my subconcious to stop adding force, so I don't bottom out hard on those and sometimes not at all.
Thank you both for the feedback. I was guessing that on a linear switch that bottoms out, an o-ring would make that bottom less harsh--like running on concrete in running shoes vs barefoot.
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I'm a big fan of o-rings for both the reduction in travel and sound dampening. I don't think it takes away from the feel of a mech keyboard.
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I have a board with Gateron Blues w/o O-rings and another with Cherry Blues w/ O-rings. I use both fairly regularly. I would say that the board with the O-rings definitely feels a bit "mushier", but if you always bottom out then the effect isn't as pronounced (as you might expect). The O-rings definitely dampen the sound significantly, which is why I bought them.
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I feel O-Rings are a mistake because they convert an otherwise great mechanically-feeling switch/keycap with a nice "clack" bottoming out, into a rubber-domey feeling, dampening/bouncing/rubber bottoming out. :(
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I use them on linear switches, otherwise I bottom out too hard. I do really like that cushioned =thump= as opposed to that the plastic -clack- (especially on ABS caps).
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O-Rings bring me different feelings on different switches. Im using one Clear and one Blue keyboard, and adding O-rings to the Blue will make the clacks sound thicker, and avoid bottoming out, just because the blue switch is still too light to my finger force. So it is a positive effect. But on Clears O-rings make it worst, more mushy and because of the force curve on clear switches I can reach actual points without bottoming out, so O-rings help nothing. I have no experience with linear switches, wanna stick with tactile my whole life though.
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Depends on the switch and if you bottom out or not. I love o-rings on linear switches, but hate them on everything else (even though I bottom out every keystroke like a lowrider speeding through a school zone.)
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I use mine on a Novatouch they don't really do anything but i was far too lazy to take them all off oh well. In the future i want to landing pod mods on all my boards.
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in clicky switch completely worthless , it feel so bad for me .. :blank:
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I use mine on a Novatouch they don't really do anything but i was far too lazy to take them all off oh well. In the future i want to landing pod mods on all my boards.
What's a landing pod mod?
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I use mine on a Novatouch they don't really do anything but i was far too lazy to take them all off oh well. In the future i want to landing pod mods on all my boards.
What's a landing pod mod?
He meant landing pad.
See the original here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0
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I use mine on a Novatouch they don't really do anything but i was far too lazy to take them all off oh well. In the future i want to landing pod mods on all my boards.
What's a landing pod mod?
He meant landing pad.
See the original here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0
Great reading. Thank you!
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I like the feel of reduced travel distance on my cherry browns (also use my browns at work so the reduced noise is a major plus). On cherry blues I like both the 'clack' sound of bottoming out, and the greater travel distance. So: Yes to O-rings on browns, and no to o-rings on blues. That's just my take on it.
As far as o-rings increasing the life of your keyboard: this is false.
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No.
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I like the feel of reduced travel distance on my cherry browns (also use my browns at work so the reduced noise is a major plus). On cherry blues I like both the 'clack' sound of bottoming out, and the greater travel distance. So: Yes to O-rings on browns, and no to o-rings on blues. That's just my take on it.
As far as o-rings increasing the life of your keyboard: this is false.
+1 I agree having o-rings on browns (keeps the SO from getting pissed off from the clicking late at night) took a little time to get used to but they grew on me XD
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I had O-Rings on my Deck 82 Toxic (MX Blacks) when it was still in my possession, and liked them, but as with many things in this hobby, very subjective and varies from person to person. I think since those were such heavy switches, it had turned me into a more aggressive typist, and the difference the O-Rings made was huge for me.
Just to give them a shot again, and because they were cheap, I jumped on the Massdrop buy to try them out on CM QFR. Doing all of my development work at home, and having my desk in my bedroom, I spend some late nights working. IF there is a way I can not be so intrusive and noisy when I'm doing my work, I know my wife will appreciate it a lot. It might end up that I don't like using them on this board, but for the 7 or 8 bucks I think the buy ended up costing, I'll spend the time putting them on and trying them out for a couple days, no big deal.
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The only thing O-Rings are good for IMO is making Cherry switches even worse than they already are. The ONLY switch I would put them on is reds. They kill everything else.
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When I bought my QFR with mx blues, I also got a pack of the red o-rings (0.2 mm reduction) because I wanted the option to reduce the bottom out noise. So I typed on the keyboard for a day without the o-rings, and then put them on the space bar and alphas. Even without previous experience with mechs, it felt off. I liked how it prevented the loud clack as the keys hit the plate, but even more so I disliked the reduced travel. All in all, it seemed like a crude way of quieting the keyboard, so I took them off a couple days later. However, I still left the o-rings on the spacebar and a couple of the modifiers. The spacebar is just too annoying and pingy without it.
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O-rings do not protect the plate.
If you bottom out really, really heavily all the time they might protect the delicate plastic switch somewhat.
Personally I don't like O-rings. I like to bottom out (lightly), I like the sound, I like the switch travel distance.
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My wife certainly loves when I have o-rings on my board. She loves the feel of my keyboards when using them, but hates to listen to me type on them.
I personally dislike them, like others have said, they cheapen the feel of your keyboard. If I had to use my keyboard in an office setting and got complaints I would probably use them. For personal use at home... no thank you.
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I just heard of this mod 3 days ago. I grabbed some O-Rings out of my drawer and threw them on my MX Red TKL Keyboard at home. I instantly love it. I always disliked the long travel and hard bottoming out of this board. This is completely solved now.
But tbh, i like chicklet keys more than my mechanical ones (until now). Even though i touch-type i tend to bottom out quiet hard, so chicklet keys dampen that quiet a bit. But i never tried any mechanical keyboard except mx reds. If i can get hold of some, a split with mx browns is on my list. An i'll surely install some O-Rings on these as well.
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I don't know whether they extend the life of a board, but I didn't like MX Browns on a Filco I purchased some years ago, but really, really liked the feel of Browns on the Logitech G710+. The only real contributing factor to the feel of either board was the inclusion of O-rings on the G710+.
It's all subjective, though. It's like taking an opinion poll on soft or firm mattresses.
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I put o-rings on my WASD keys as to not be loud playing games and not disturbing the wife if shes asleep across the hall. I dont think it helps.
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There is no answer to the question if O-rings are woth it, because it depends on switch type, keycap profile and your personal oppinion.
I really like O rings on OEM profiled keycaps with MX Blues, but I hate them with linear switches and on Cherry profiled keycaps.
Just try them out, they're cheap.
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I put o-rings on my WASD keys as to not be loud playing games and not disturbing the wife if shes asleep across the hall. I dont think it helps.
What switches have you got?
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as many have said, it depends on the switch, profile, etc..
For me particularly, they've been effective for a number of reasons. Not only do they noticeably reduce the clacking sound on my MX-brown QFR, but they also reduce the distance traveled (which isn't a bad thing with MX switches, in comparison to Topre). For me, this is paramount because I've got a lot of miles on my wrists and have suffered from RSI so this does indeed result in less stress on my wrist innards. Not only that, but also because they reduce the cap-plate impact when the key is fully depressed.
In the long run, this might be important for us all since we are probably all heavy typists but the "mushy" feel is definitely there and is a big turn-off for most.
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I am not a Cherry user but I do like the O-ring concept.
My experience is that "dental rubber bands" are thinner and softer than any commercial rings I have used.
Too bad there don't seem to be any very thin, very soft O-rings available, but I suppose that they would not be sturdy or effective in their "real-life" applications.
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I put o-rings on my WASD keys as to not be loud playing games and not disturbing the wife if shes asleep across the hall. I dont think it helps.
What switches have you got?
MX-Red
I might grab some PBT caps and try those as well.
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I have some O rings coming for my full Cherry blue board because i always bottom out on them. But i'm going with clears on my 60% because they are stiff enough for me not to always bottom out. Was thinking about getting o rings for it too, but as most have suggested against o rings with clears i wont.
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I'm on the fence. Only tried 0.4mm o-rings and to be honest I didn't enjoy it one bit, but I will still give 0.2 and 0.1 a shot before I throw in the towel.
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I'm on the fence. Only tried 0.4mm o-rings and to be honest I didn't enjoy it one bit, but I will still give 0.2 and 0.1 a shot before I throw in the towel.
Here are a few highlights to help you decide which size fits you better :
- A thicker O-ring will reduce key travel more than a thinner one.
- A softer O-ring will make a switch quiet more effectively than a harder one.
- The more material the O-ring has, the more it can dampen shocks and noise.
From that, your choice mainly depends on which keycaps you are using.
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I'm on the fence. Only tried 0.4mm o-rings and to be honest I didn't enjoy it one bit, but I will still give 0.2 and 0.1 a shot before I throw in the towel.
Here are a few highlights to help you decide which size fits you better :
- A thicker O-ring will reduce key travel more than a thinner one.
- A softer O-ring will make a switch quiet more effectively than a harder one.
- The more material the O-ring has, the more it can dampen shocks and noise.
From that, your choice mainly depends on which keycaps you are using.
Yeah I'm still fairly new to it, and have some experimenting to do. Thanks for the summary though, I guess I never really took into consideration softer/harder o-rings.
I can already tell though softer o-rings aren't my jam
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i know that landing pads were mentioned here, but I think it was in the context of Topre switch. You might also consider using EliteKeyboard's landing pads on your MX board. I've tried both o-rings and pads and prefer the pads, just because it seems the keypress impact is softer, albeit "mushier".
I have some laying around and can send you some if you'd like so you can test. I have the "soft" black landing pads from EK, not the "firm" white ones.