Counts are doing pretty good already, remember that we're going to hit AT LEAST the 75 key mark for every key except the random, and at least 50 for that, so really you can go ahead and ignore the pricing at 25 keys and mostly for 50 keys. I know that makes a huge difference... my order went from $37 to like $20 last time.
I love how people keep posting their orders in the thread and not PMing me, in both threads there are a lot of people who have posted and haven't sent me anything. I mean I know that the OP is extremely long, but I highlighted and enlarged all the important stuff for a reason. I'm not counting them from the thread because if I did I wouldn't have their email. Thus, if you are reading this and it applies to you, PM me if you do actually want them.
Most other group buys, you post in the thread and get counted, then exchange info later. You did make the PM instructions nice and big in the OP, but there's still going to be a lot of confusion. :-/
So I was playing around with the spreadsheet tonight and thought I'd share this. I estimated that I'll be ordering at least 100 of each keycap except Random, which will get 50 each... and screencapped what everyone's subtotal price before shipping and all that is (since shipping is the only thing subject to change.)
(Attachment) 27763[/ATTACH]
Hope that gives everyone a much better idea of how cheap this actually is. Most keys are going to be either $1.44 or $1.73 each.
Any chance that there will be a terran eagle symbol available in the future? I'd like a set of these caps but the Dominion terran symbol just doesn't really do it for me.
from what i understand there was far too much detail to do the eagle justice.
Esc keys (1x):
1 x Terran
1 x Protoss
1 x Zerg
1 x Random
Modifiers (1.25x):
2 x Protoss
Country: US
Hey Guys,
Just to confirm, do all 1x keys count towards the bulk discount (for example, we need 250 total 1x keycaps, which we already have, to get the cheapest per keycap prices)? Or is it per race (for example, we will need 250 1x terran orders, 250 1x protoss orders, etc, to get the cheapest bulk buy discounts)?
Sorry in advance if the answer is overly obvious.
By the way, thanks for organizing this, Ragnorock.
if i recall correctly, it needs to be for each individual key.
so, eg. 250 1x terran keys for the lowest price.
Okay so first person to post what the title of this thread is a reference to wins something. Not sure what yet because I just thought of this, but nobody commented on the title, so I feel like the reference has failed. Redeem yourselves GH, and thou shalt be rewarded.
Winnar. I knew you were awesome simply because of your avatar, but you sir, get free shipping on your order. :)
Watching Evangelion 2.22 was the single greatest experience in my entire life. No joke. Everything I had ever wanted from the series and all of its surrounding fandom over the years was perfectly culminated in that movie. SO MUCH GOD TIER.
(Sidenote: Yes it was better than sex lol)
1.11 and 2.22 (The numbering scheme is silly, 1.0 and 2.0 are the theatrical releases,) are everything you could ask for as an Eva fan. End of story. The original series is not available on Blu Ray yet unfortunately. Sometime soon I imagine.
Esc Keys (1x):The entire top row only.
1 x Protoss
1 x Terran
1 x Zerg
1 x Random
Modifiers (1.25x):
1 x Protoss
1 x Terran
1 x Zerg
1 x Random
Country: Australia
Shipping: $10
Thanks!
Question: Does the 1x keycap fit only the top row (esc, f1 to pause keys)? Or does it also fit the insert->page down keys, numpad keys, qwerty keys, etc?
Okay, updated for the last time before orders close. I have an exam tomorrow night from 8-10PM PDT and will be closing it when I get home after that... So you have until then to get in.
Currently the prices look like they're going to be $1.44 per 1x key except $2.43 for Randoms and $1.71 per 1.25x key except $2.71 for Randoms. That's better than I expected for the most part, so good work guys.
They are indeed Doubleshots.
"Starcraft 2 DOUBLESHOTS Round 2.22 You Can (haz) nao (Order Thread)"
I know.
My double order of Portal keycaps plus 35 Terran keycaps would put me around $80.00 without shipping.
I might be at MLG Providence, so I think I can pawn them off there. Hopefully I can give freebies to MKP, Bomber, and the Emperor.
I mean, sure, I bought about three total sets plus a few extras but 35 Terran caps is... a lot. That's nearly three full fn rows. You, sir, are in rear with the gear.
I know.
My double order of Portal keycaps plus 35 Terran keycaps would put me around $80.00 without shipping.
I might be at MLG Providence, so I think I can pawn them off there. Hopefully I can give freebies to MKP, Bomber, and the Emperor.
Only a couple hours left for ordering. Have you considered reposting on /r/starcraft to squeeze out a couple of orders?
SP's manufacturing lead time is about a month after the order goes in. So expect it a month from Monday. Fingers crossed it gets here with time to spare for Thanksgiving.
People, if you know your invoice didn't include the 2.9% paypal fee, be a good geekhacker and gift that 2.9% to Ragnorock. You can do the simple multiplication, can't you?just sent him a gift payment for what was missing of my order.
The 2.9% should be under the subtotal/shipping correct?
I paid my invoice as well but will reimburse you the 3% just PM me here and let me know how much I owe ya. Thanks again!
Are all the invoices out yet? I haven't received mine.
Invoice me the fee dude!
I have no issue compensating you for all the work you've done.
I know.
My double order of Portal keycaps plus 35 Terran keycaps would put me around $80.00 without shipping.
I might be at MLG Providence, so I think I can pawn them off there. Hopefully I can give freebies to MKP, Bomber, and the Emperor.
safe to say you're going to have the highest feedback score after both of these GB are done lol
again, thanks for organizing these!
Paid, in cash.[ATTACH=CONFIG]28675[/ATTACH]
Okay, so I've sent out all the invoices. Phew. I gained some momentum toward the end there, it takes a while to figure out how to optimize sending 125 invoices but I finally got it. If you still haven't gotten an invoice, send me a PM and I will either resend or send one out. Dreaming I'm pretty sure I just hadn't sent yours out by the time you posted. I sent it out about an hour ago.
That's about it, now we wait until everyone pays up and then I'm sending in the orders on Monday. PLEASE PAY BY THEN! My paypal has never had this much money in it lol. It's at $1270 and only a third of the buyers have paid lol.
Yeah, got the go ahead from both my friend and Melissa to do that, and she put the order in today because she knows I have the funds. So now I figure out whether I can just gift my friend $3.4k or whether I'll have to put it in my bank and then in his and then into his paypal. Lol.transfer to bank and cash it, hand it to him in cash so the gov can't track it :P
Later I will post up the list of the ~12 remaining unpaid orders... I have enough to pay for the keycaps, but I need the rest to ship them!
Currently unpaid invoices:
Slueth
Disperz
Ichitz
Fleck
Gin
Cercal
Nox
Many of the above have already contacted me about payment and will either pay very soon or make some other sort of arrangement. If you are on the list and you have paid, I messed up somewhere and you need to let me know. If you have not paid and are not on this list, then either you didn't get in or I didn't send the invoice for some reason or another and you need to get in contact with me as soon as possible. If you can't afford it anymore, just let me know. The order is in already so I'll just be selling the leftovers. There will be extras of all kinds for both group buys.
Lives up to his screen name.
wlcm2gh
More people have paid, remaining unpaid are:
Fleck
Cercal
Nox
Thanks to those that have, I'll try sending PMs on here to those that haven't.
There will be extras for sale at $3.00 an esc key, $3.25 a modifier key. Once I get the GB orders all sorted out and shipped, I'll post up a new thread selling the leftovers.
got the keycaps early, check the nyancat thread for pics, i'll be shipping them monday. More details will follow tomorrow.
Yes! I'm sure to get into Masters with these babies...
Got the keycaps early, check the nyancat thread for pics, I'll be shipping them Monday. More details will follow tomorrow.
Why will this be the last? Will they no longer produce them, or do you not want to do another one? Haha
No it just means they're going to be expensive that's all.
Indeed you do, I just packed them into your envelope.The amount of these floating around compared to clack factory is not even comparable lol Let's not extragrate now
As for pricing, until the word is final from SP, I'm thinking ~$4 per key if they will still be produced, and around $8-$10 if they aren't. If they aren't they basically become click clacks lol. Shipping to UK will be the same most likely $10 bubble envelope and $15 flat rate box. I know many of the buyers in this thread bought extras to sell, and right now all of them basically just got real lucky since the resale value of what they bought has almost certainly increased dramatically. Portal keysets... lol. The question is how much is someone willing to pay for one of the 100 sets made when there are 7, maybe 8 left for sale. $50? $60? If a tri-color click clack can go for that... *shrug*
I was going to wait until I made the leftovers for sale threads to release that info but I said I'd update you guys today and I'm probably not going to get to that tonight. Several hours of packing boxes and I've still got tons to do. By the way these flat rate boxes are overkill on size, I'm definitely offering bubble mailers for the US in my next GB. They'll probably be like $5 instead of $6, but seriously with the amount of packing I have to stuff in these boxes so they don't have to move around when someone only bought 4 keys is ridiculous. There will be a couple of US buyers who only bought a couple of keys that get bubble mailers because I didn't get enough boxes and the bubble mailers honestly protect that few of keys better since they just don't move around.
The amount of these floating around compared to clack factory is not even comparable lol Let's not extragrate now
Not only that a Clack skull is FARRR nicer then anything SP will ever produce in terms of quality ;p these will never reach the heights of Click Clack's
I will sell my children for Click Clacks.You heard it here first! lol
I'd trade a tri color Click Clack for a portal keyset no questions asked lol. That's cool that they're thick and all, but when you compare the sum of the awesome in the Portal keyset with one Click Clack... imo Portal comes out well ahead.
I really don't get the insane desire for the Click Clack keys anyway, other than the fact that they're rare. I think they look cheesy.
I don't think you're hyping your product enough.
HYPE HYPE HYPE!
(Attachment) 31005[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 31006[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 31007[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 31008[/ATTACH]
Lol.
So as promised here are some more pictures of only a very small portion of the SC2 keycaps. After seeing just how many there really was there was no way I was going to fit them all on my table.
(Attachment) 31003[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 31004[/ATTACH]
GH Approves?
HYPE HYPE HYPE!
(Attachment) 31005[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 31006[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 31007[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 31008[/ATTACH]
Lol.
So as promised here are some more pictures of only a very small portion of the SC2 keycaps. After seeing just how many there really was there was no way I was going to fit them all on my table.
(Attachment) 31003[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 31004[/ATTACH]
GH Approves?
So... boxes.
(Attachment) 31104[/ATTACH]
So I'm not entirely sure how accurate SP really is with their counts of keycaps. I'm going to be double checking every box just to be sure, but right now I'm short 6 Terran Esc and 3 Random Esc, and have the right number if not more of the rest...
I already grabbed that one. :P
Don't worry guys, that picture is of everyone's orders already sorted and accounted for. I was very meticulous in doing it so there shouldn't be any errors... and that's before I double check them as I put addresses on them.
The counts are just... off.
David-
The sublimated keys are not as big of a concern as they are not direct logos from another company like many of the starcraft images we have been dealing with. In good conscience, the 2-shot parts will need to be a last time buy.
Thanks for checking!
Melissa Petersen
Signature Plastics LLC
E: mpetersen@solutionsinplastic.com
P: 360.366.5044 ext. 400 | F: 360.366.3848
http://www.solutionsinplastic.com | http://www.keycapsdirect.com
There you have it folks. As I feared, these are the last of their kind. It seems that Portal keys may still be produced, but that's the only good news.
I'll be posting a leftovers for sale thread soonish as I recover from all the GB work from the stuff going out today.
Alright guys, with the exception of the Canadians, everything has been shipped out! I wish you guys could have seen it. I walked in with ~125 packages and everyone was like lolwtf. An hour later after filling out god knows how many customs forms I walk out of there significantly poorer and everyone's stuff should be there in 15 business days or less... probably like 2-5 days for US and the only potentially long ones are the international bubble mailers. The receipt is about 30 ft long! Rofl.
There you have it folks. As I feared, these are the last of their kind. It seems that Portal keys may still be produced, but that's the only good news.
I'll be posting a leftovers for sale thread soonish as I recover from all the GB work from the stuff going out today.
So question for everyone. If you've only got a handful of leftovers and they're the last of their kind, what would you set the price of them at? I don't mean to gouge, but I've been mulling over what to set these at for days now and some input would be helpful. I do know that there are a lot of people that still want them and I'm in no rush to dump them now for quick money.
I hope for ~$2000 a piece in 20 years. Yay for long term investment! Screw 401k!
So question for everyone. If you've only got a handful of leftovers and they're the last of their kind, what would you set the price of them at? I don't mean to gouge, but I've been mulling over what to set these at for days now and some input would be helpful. I do know that there are a lot of people that still want them and I'm in no rush to dump them now for quick money.
So question for everyone. If you've only got a handful of leftovers and they're the last of their kind, what would you set the price of them at? I don't mean to gouge, but I've been mulling over what to set these at for days now and some input would be helpful. I do know that there are a lot of people that still want them and I'm in no rush to dump them now for quick money.
I'd say whomever runs the group buy can do what he wants with the excess keys...nobody is arguing that o.O
Lol, sorry man, no way they're getting to the UK in 2 days. Happy birthday though!
This is why I'm an engineer. I am going to build that teleportation device (portal gun maybe?). Think of the possibilities!!!
I'm going to do a doubleshot tkl group buy of the same red on black that the terran is later since it looks that good. Imagine all your legends looking like that... omnomnom.
I'm going to do a doubleshot tkl group buy of the same red on black that the terran is later since it looks that good. Imagine all your legends looking like that... omnomnom.
I'm going to do a doubleshot tkl group buy of the same red on black that the terran is later since it looks that good. Imagine all your legends looking like that... omnomnom.
Btw posting mine here too since its probably the best shot of my setup.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Qmpcf.jpg) (http://imgur.com/Qmpcf)
for the love of everything keyboard, do group buy for dye sub red alert theme. or, if you don't want to copy them, do the combo that these modifiers have:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/75d3I.png)
it's so.... beautiful.
oh yeah, got my keycaps today.
companion cube <3
x2 - love the color combinationx3 on this colourway
Why is New Orleans USPS always so slow?! :(
They seem to always be getting bogged down.
Btw if anyone feels like adding some iTrader feedback I'd appreciate it, but I'm not requiring anyone to, its only if you find the time.
I'm sure there are many of the buyers that plan on selling theirs, I also have leftovers that I will be putting up for sale shortly. They will be at a premium now that they've been discontinued though.
I'm sure there are many of the buyers that plan on selling theirs, I also have leftovers that I will be putting up for sale shortly. They will be at a premium now that they've been discontinued though.
So they can't be made anymore so you're gonna sell them and make a huge profit now? Cool beans.
So they can't be made anymore so you're gonna sell them and make a huge profit now? Cool beans.
Like how the GB gave literally anyone a equal chance in getting a set but complain about prices after the GB ends.
50 dollars each + 75 dollars shipping per keycap, no discounts if combined.
Wat a deel mang!!1111. I think the shipping is what makes this deal hawt though.The PMs are flooding my inbox as we speak.
I'm going to be selling mine for $8 per esc $8.50 per modifier. I know some buyers that are going to sell them for less, and others that are going to sell them for more. Being the one who ran the group buy, I have the most to sell, but I don't have very many. I'd estimate that even the sum of all the keys every buyer bought to sell is less than 50 of each kind.
... Funny thing is, even that price is still lower than the selling price of similar custom doubleshots.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23327-Interest-Check-Customized-key-caps
Oh god I lol'd. +1 to you sir, well done.Show Image(http://i41.tinypic.com/de32w9.jpg)
Like how the GB gave literally anyone a equal chance in getting a set but complain about prices after the GB ends.
Like how the GB gave literally anyone a equal chance in getting a set but complain about prices after the GB ends.
Since when was there a rule that nobody is allowed to make a significant profit off a GB? Especially the person who took the time and effort to start the GB himself?
He even stated in the first page that he was intending to buy extras to earn some profit. Why didn't you say anything then? Why after the GB?
The majority of people are not retarded enough to sell something out of production and high in demand for the original price. That's just common sense. Why do you think antiques are sold for thousands of dollars?
Hell, i bet if you bought a bunch of these keys after the GB for near the original price you'd end up doing the same thing -_-.
I honestly think $8 is a pretty good deal considering they will never be produced again, unless your willing to get the cheap knockoffs from TaoBao. There's probably less than a thousand keys in the world now and you're arguing that those limited keys be sold for ridiculous low prices. I'm pretty sure these keys will continuously raise in price in the future regardless of what you say.
The man offered his services for ONE dollar for nearly a month to get you these keys. If you seriously didn't want him to earn a living then you should have just bought the keys during the actual GB.
Your math behind the "realistic profit" calculation is entirely wrong lmao.
Also I didn't buy 250 of each kind. I'm sure you're just trying to get people to not buy them from me or anyone and try to drive the price down but it just isn't going to work. I could throw these on eBay for $10 and they'd still be gone in a reasonable enough time to justify it.
Enjoy trolling, nobody cares. I'm not going to make half that theoretical profit, so quit crying and say thanks for doing all this like you should. If you dilute what I'll actually be making down to an hourly wage, it's a reasonable rate.
The man offered his services for ONE dollar for nearly a month to get you these keys. If you seriously didn't want him to earn a living then you should have just bought the keys during the actual GB.
No one is making anyone buy Ragnorock's key caps, if he wanted to sell each key cap for ten grand each, that's his business, you can choose to buy it or not, just like you could choose to buy it from the start of the group buy. I myself would not resale any extras in my spherical group buy for a profit but thats probably why I am so broke.
Your facts reflect numbers and only numbers.Your not counting in the factor that nobody was aware that this group buy would be the last and the considerable amount of time it takes to set up and complete a group buy of this magnitude. In fact the people who opted out of NOT participating in the group buy pretty much asked to be taken advantage of. You see this everywhere with pre-orders and post orders.
So what if he made money off of this? This isn't communism. People and businesses all over the world use this method. Buy low sell high. Some make money, some don't.
You yourself said you don't really care about buying these yet you seemed so fixated on interfering with his sales.
First you argue about how much he profits from these keycaps then you bring up that he shouldn't even be selling them because they are illegal? What point are you trying to make here?
If anything group buys bring the community together. How else can you obtain doubleshot keys for low prices? If you missed the group buy, then that's entirely your fault. This doesn't even reflect upon the community.
Profiteering is common sense after a group buy. What price do you want these keys to be? Why do you dictate what prices are good and what prices are bad? If i wanted to sell my lawn chair are you going to tell me what price i should sell it for? I spent money on it, not you. The majority of the community understands this and is always willing to pay more. If the price is too high then they simply don't need to buy it. Nobody is forcing anyone here.
If you can't invest the time to make a post and a pm for a group buy you have no right to complain.
You're entitled to your own opinion. I think making $1500 off a group buy is a detriment to the community. I don't see how it helps.Yeah it went from covering his time and effort to making a huge profit. I hope this isn't a new trend.
I brought up the legality because he's going to try and make a huge profit now. Before it wasn't an issue.
You're entitled to your own opinion. I think making $1500 off a group buy is a detriment to the community. I don't see how it helps.
I brought up the legality because he's going to try and make a huge profit now. Before it wasn't an issue.
Whoa whoa whoa, hold on there son. Biniaris does a ton for this community. Show me your sale thread with tons of useful parts and rare and custom keyboards for sale.My apologies if i don't know this individual as well as others do. Heck i'll even edit that part out because that was a mistake on my part. But i honestly think him whining about people earning a profit is unjustified.
This thread has gotten very hostile :bolt:your damn avy makes me want a HHKB so bad lol
You're entitled to your own opinion. I think making $1500 off a group buy is a detriment to the community. I don't see how it helps.
I brought up the legality because he's going to try and make a huge profit now. Before it wasn't an issue.
I think you've said your piece and more than enough since so if you're going to continue to "threadcrap" I will report you. I'm sorry I've ruffled your tailfeathers but clearly you're alone here. EVERYONE else is telling you to mind your own damn business so I think you should take their advice. I've received a half dozen emails from various members telling me thanks for saying what I have about your threadcrapping and bringing it to bear because apparently you've been doing this in several other threads as well... which in my opinion is pretty unacceptable. Its a free marketplace, we don't report to you for what our prices should be, and if nobody wants to buy my keys at the prices I'm selling em at, fine, I'll just hold onto them until they do- because now that they're gone, they will eventually all be sold. If they weren't discountinued and I was to be selling these for my original price of $4 you wouldn't have had jack to say about it because that's entirely what everyone would expect to pay for them. It just so happens that after the fact these became the last of their kind and that affects their value. You're trying to make it seem like I planned on selling them at that price all along and am price gouging the hell out of this great community. Everyone ELSE seems to understand that that isn't what is happening here. I mean really, of any thread here you had to come crap on mine? What about the Team Liquid group buy where the seller sold them for $4 or $5 each (I can't remember which) with no discounts, collected the money up front, and since there were almost 300 keys sold in that group buy, paid less than a dollar each for them- making a ridiculous profit for the number of orders and keycaps he sold... and that isn't even including selling his extras!
I'm so so very sorry that you weren't the guy who decided to take up the reins of this group buy after it stalled for a month when the previous guy running it disappeared. I stepped forward, and did it both so that I could actually get the damn keys and to see if it could become something I could do to help pay for my rent. If the rest of the community wasn't so throughly behind me on this, I'd have a much more sour taste in my mouth and wouldn't be doing any more group buys. Fortunately you're the only one who seems to think that this is unreasonable. I'm going to continue providing my services and running the extremely popular group buys I have done and plan to do. If you have any sort of problem with that take it up with the management or keep your mouth shut. I've done nothing wrong here and your trolling better have run its course. Please refrain from posting in any of my threads from this point on and if you do your posts will be ignored. No soup for you.
Oh I have a thought, why don't you go complain about Signature Plastics to the better business bureau? I mean seeing as how plastic costs .001 cents a keycap they've gotta be making a HUGELY UNREASONABLE markup on the keycaps they sell.
@SvenJ: There will not be another round of these because if you didn't gather from the prior posts, Signature plastics, who has been making these and is basically the only company that does, has decided to stop making them. I have leftover keys I will be selling as do others, but as you might have gathered, they're worth quite a bit more than the original group buy discounted price now.
Just for the sake of not making Binaris have to stand up all alone, I want to say that I agree with him to a certain extent. Yes, I understand that Ragnarok should get something for his time and effort (consider that he added $1 to shipping as a surplus already though). Yes, I understand that he's entitled to sell extras for what he chooses. However, on the other hand I do find it less than ideal that many of these sales are likely to be done within this community as Binaris pointed out and ideally the community supports each other and keeps the best interest of its members in mind.
If I may be so bold as to suggest something, I think that handling this as a cooperative would both allow Ragnarok and the community to benefit. By this I am referring to how cooperatives use their profit to benefit all those involved, either by paying dividends to its members (which would be the equivalent of passing on income made by the sale of extras to those involved, though this is too complicated to do, so let us ignore it) or by reinvesting in the cooperative, which I think is a great solution that allows Ragnarok to benefit and at the same time avoid any controversy.
What I mean by reinvesting in the cooperative is that Ragnarok could sell the extras but the income he makes from that be used only to buy keys from other group buys. In this way, Ragnarok still gets something for his trouble (free keys which would otherwise cost him money) but at the same time it benefits the rest of the community, because then those other group buys would be more likely to reach minimum quotas and lower price points. Also, if this method were used, there would be less incentive to sell the keys at a markup as the person selling the extras likely wouldn't need so much income from the sale of extras in order to purchase what they want from the next group buy.
Those wanting to buy extras benefit, the person who organized the group buy benefits, and the people interested in the next group buy around the corner benefit.
What other threads exactly do I threadcrap in?
And there's only a couple people that have posted here. I've been talking with others as well, and I am not alone in my beliefs. There's a difference between selling to the world and selling to a tight nit community and ripping them all off.
Oh shut the **** up already.
screw double shot!
Long live dyesubs!!!!!
[awesome keycap images]
screw double shot!
Long live dyesubs!!!!!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/343Fz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Ywcy5.jpg)
You all are overestimating my profit in this and I already am reinvesting it by deciding to help meet discounts in various other group buys by buying what those buys need to get the prices down. If you look in my new Group buy, I think you'll find it to your satisfaction.
If you were really doing this for the community, you'd be charging them all the bare minimum for each cap + a bit to cover your time. Why are you charging a $1 handling fee for your time when you are making a ton more from the spares?
Who cares how much/little he makes out of this - Why does he have to do this only "for the community"?
What is wrong with providing a service which is relevant to the forums (that dozens of happy customers on said forum are willing to use) and turning a profit.. The general consensus here seems to be that 90% of the users here have no problem with that. If you're going to take that attitude then we might as well tell the entire vendor section to leave geekhack as clearly they aren't welcome here according to your view of how geekhack should be run.
I value your right to express your views on this issue (despite diagreeing with you), and if you want to have a discussion about this, maybe you should start a thread of your own where you can make your case for a more communal geekhack - but trying to tell ragnorok what he can/can't do with his keys in this thread just comes off as kinda immature and isn't exactly helping your argument.
Whatever man, if you want to keep sounding bitter and turning members of the community against your opinion, that's your prerogative. I'm done with this thread.
*shrugs*
90% huh? I love made up statistics.1% of the GH member has 99% of the SC2 keys
Sent from my EVO
You can't pull numbers out of your ass like that and expect me to take you seriously. And I've had numerous PMs from people who agree with me but apparently they don't want to post here with their opinion.
If he wants to turn this into a business he can put up all the money up front and sell them in the classifieds. He's using our money as an investment to make himself $1500. That is the complete opposite of what group buys are supposed to be.
And that is what is bothering me.
He used our money to make a profit. Hence why when he asked what he should do, I told him share the wealth or sell them at the price the rest of us paid. But then he got butt hurt and cried about his time and effort as if he wasn't going to make it up in profits.
Also, had I known he tried to steal from EK I wouldn't have bothered participating in his GBs. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?20564-Realforce-103UB-brand-new)
But **** it, it's beating a dead horse. Next time I'll be careful whom I give my money too.
Oh shut the **** up already..
Interesting to see how a group buy (money, really) polarized people. I have my own opinion. I actually have done business with demik, BiNiaRiS, and Ragnorock separately. You guys are all fine folks. Do I agree with everyone? No. In fact I disagree with all of you for one point or another. But does it matter? Not really.
I think I have stirred up enough crap tonight :-)
I just want to start by saying that I'm not upset by the money itself and am in fact ordering without hesitation from Ragnorock again in his other group buys because I know that he can get things done. Abstractly though, I do understand the moral issues surrounding this and while it's probably too late to do anything about this particular group buy, I wouldn't mind seeing some little things changed in the future for the sake of business ethics.
I don't mean to make this sound offensive to Ragnorock, particularly since there is no way to tell whether he consciously did any particular thing or whether it simply hadn't occurred to him at the time because he was busy organizing the great group buy. I'm trying to just be objective and I don't hold anything against him, but I do see where the fuss is coming from. In the end it doesn't really take away any significant amount of money from any individual person who was in the group order, maybe like $1, but perhaps a little too much ends up in his hands which caused all this fuss.
1. $1 handling fee.
Perfectly reasonable, plainly stated. If you have a problem with this it's your own fault.
I figured this is how I'd make a bit of money, but almost all of this got eaten up when I had to pay the artwork fee for the Portal keyset and I only collected 125 orders to begin with. $125 for the amount of time I put into this is pathetic.
2. Shipping costs.
It's likely the price charged for shipping is a little over the actual cost but /everyone/ in charge of any group buy would do this. It's far too difficult to get exact prices for everyone so any money he makes here is reasonable assuming the charged price is relatively close to the actual, within about a dollar or two I'd say.
In some cases, shipping was more than I anticipated, some it was less. In this case, the vast majority of orders shipped via flat rate box at a rate of $5.20, not $5.00. That means that for a good 2/3 of the orders I was only collecting $0.80 instead of a dollar, again meaning I hardly made anything or potentially lost money on those. The few international orders I had that weren't flat rate boxes I was able to make some money to make up for that, as the average cost per envelope was always below the $10 I have been charging.
3. Price breaks.
Here's where I see the first potential ethical issue. There were 94 orders from portal sets and he ordered 6 extra to reach the 100 set price break but we were still charged at the price for 75. Granted this is only a 31 cent difference so it's not the end of the world clearly.
While I don't think Biniaris has an issue with the Portal keysets, I honestly don't see a moral issue here. In order to reach 100 sets, I had to spend $75.52 of my own money to get it. Why should I have to spend $120 just so everyone gets a price break? I think it is reasonable for everyone to contribute to the purchase of the extras if the savings aren't that significant and the sum of those savings is not greater than the cost of ordering the extras. If I have to invest more of my own money to get the discounts, then I see nothing wrong with being the one reaping the profits later.
Now as for the SC2 keys, this is where I realize I may have been wrong. Given what I had seen in the TL.net buy and others, I figured it was the status quo to do what I did and use the savings to fund the extras. In this case the overall order was cheaper, meaning I got my SC2 extras for free. However, if I had shared that discount with everyone, that would mean that I would have to pay almost $300 to get the extras. Its a double sided coin, I wouldn't have been able to afford to buy any extras and nobody would have gotten the discounts anyways. In my current and future group buys, I will be working toward a more reasonable solution, but if the situation is similar everyone needs to either accept this conundrum or deal elsewhere. I do not have the extra time to sit there and give everyone refunds of 50 cents or a couple dollars, I hope you understand.
4. Extras.
If the extras were bought to reach a price break and that price break was passed on to those involved (though as in point 3, it wasn't) then of course everyone in the group buy would want him to buy the extras. Of course there's no logical option other than for Ragnorock to keep the extras, unless he was to raffle them off randomly to people in the group buy but I'd actually prefer he kept them. The issue to many here is that the sale of these extras would see all the money go to him.
There are really only two options here. Either he does in fact keep the money for himself, though this high level of reward is contentious, or, foreseeing that he would be making money off the sales of the extras, deduct that amount (or some percentage of it) evenly from the members of the group buy. For example, say he sold the 6 extra portal sets for $20 each, then he would take $120 divided by the number of sets bought and charge each person that much less for each set they bought. This requires a great deal of foresight however so this is not something I would expect of most people running a group buy, particularly for their first time, but may be something to consider in the future.
However, he did say that he would be selling the extras at a mark up in the thread, so people knew to expect this. The problem with this is that you don't really have a choice to argue against this. If you want to get the keys you have to order with him. If you tried to organize your own group buy to combat him it would either fragment the order in two, which would force everyone to pay more, or could potentially kill the order completely. So again, while this was clearly stated, it's like a terms of service agreement that could be construed as unfair but which you really don't have an option except to accept it.
I see this as only being a problem because they went out of production and am making more than I normally would selling extras. Otherwise, this is status quo around here. Sellers are and should be able to sell their extras afterwards for a profit if they aren't retarded. For the Portal keysets, I was just fine with paying 30 cents more, so why would I want to spend $120 and go through all the effort of selling extras just to make $120 back? I'm not a charity and never said I was. As I said before, its also to reward and encourage participation in the group buy. I mean it isn't like everyone who bought SC2 keys or Portal keys haven't already seen a massive increase in their investment... everyone who bought SC2 keys has just seen an 8 fold increase in value, even at the price they paid before the next quantity discount. Portal keys are selling for double their cost and once the last couple sell out they'll go up even higher. I won't be doing another Portal group buy until sometime next year, it makes no sense to start one right now. For those that don't want to wait 6 months, that markup has value. Especially considering 6 months from now SP might change their mind and say no again, or something else happens.
5. Mark up.
On one side I understand that people who didn't participate in the group buy don't have any right to have the same price that people who were in it paid because if they did actually invest with the rest of us, we could have reached another price break and all saved money. The problem comes from the fact that we learned that signature plastics would not be making any more trademarked keycaps in the future. If Ragnorock only had the keycaps he had ordered for himself (i.e. not including the spares) and was selling them for a marked up price it would be perfectly reasonable, as everyone who had been in the group buy would have had the option of doing this.
The problem is that since Ragnorock had all the extras, which were purchased using the money of those in the group buy, none of the other people who helped pay for them see any of the sudden appreciation in value for all of these extras. However, I'm not sure exactly what can be done about this unless either the extras were raffled, some of the sales were used to help fund another group buy (which would allow the group buyers to see some return for the appreciation of the extras) or if a "grace" period were given in which people could buy the extras at a more nominal cost.
I hear what you're saying here, but I basically explained that in my response to part 3. You're right, there isn't any easy way for me to share my profits other than using some of that money to help other group buys reach their next discounts... which I am doing. In RCTs group buys I've mentioned that I will help us get to the next discounts on keys that have value to me, and in my own buys I now have more money floating around with which I can buy extras and share discounts if necessary.
6. The argument whether the group buy organizer is allowed to make profit.
Although previous group buys have been cited, I don't think that one wrong is the basis for another, though I'm glad that we ended up having the lesser of two evils, for which we can thank Ragnorock. Although he may be making more than expected off of this, we certainly paid less than we might have if someone else had been in charge. There are other group buys however in which the organizer sells extras at cost rather than profit, namely iMav's poker group buy right now from which I bought extras.
Earlier I had cited the idea of a cooperative and, sadly, it was compared to communism. A cooperative is not communism and I think many people tend to jump on that word too much, especially people from the US as they sort of live in an environment where communism is a sort of negative buzz word. Many famous businesses (WestJet, Desjardins bank, Costco) are cooperatives and the idea is that everyone owns the business equally, which is analogous to everyone being an equal member in the group buy, so no one person makes a huge profit but rather everyone benefits. I'm a member of several cooperatives myself. Everyone owns 1 share and the prices can't be beat compared to traditional businesses.
Even if you look at this from the point of view of capitalism like several people were arguing, it still doesn't add up. Ragnorock is a business. I believe in his business, so I invest in his stocks so he has capital to go about his business. If his business turns a profit, as an investor I either get dividends or otherwise see a return from the appreciation of the stock. Instead the money stayed with him. In a more simple sense, if you give someone money to go buy something for you, yes you might let them take some as a fee but you expect to get your change.
Anyways, that's a really crude look to it (and I'm no businessman so this will be my weakest argument that people can probably peck at, but if you do please don't forget the other points I've brought up) and, rather than to accuse Ragnorock, this is mostly to argue that this isn't exactly capitalism either to the people who brought it up. Anyways, the point is that yes, he is allowed to make some profit, but that profit should ideally not be much more than the handling fee, or if he's going to be making profit from other sources, the handling fee could be removed.
I don't think I really need to say much here if you consider what I said in the previous responses. I made almost nothing or lost money from the handling fee and shipping. If everyone wants me to continue to invest my time into running these, its going to require that I make enough money that it is worth my time. If the extra SC2 keys hadn't appreciated so much, I'd barely be making enough to say it has been worth my time. I mean really guys, I'd much rather be playing SC2, BF3, or Skyrim... my SC2 account has dropped to Platinum because I haven't laddered any significant amount in 1v1 for months.
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In closing, I just want to conclude that there are some things that could have been done better but many of them are only clear in hindsight. I will happily keep ordering from Ragnorock's group buys, and though I don't expect anything to be done retroactively regarding these ones, I certainly wouldn't mind to see some changes for future ones.
I certainly hope my changes are sufficient, if they aren't then please lmk.
why is everyone mad? I sold a clickclack cap for 300% profit.Probably could of got more.
Interesting to see how a group buy (money, really) polarized people. I have my own opinion. I actually have done business with demik, BiNiaRiS, and Ragnorock separately. You guys are all fine folks. Do I agree with everyone? No. In fact I disagree with all of you for one point or another. But does it matter? Not really.
I think I have stirred up enough crap tonight :-)
I just want to start by saying ...
[...]
I will happily keep ordering from Ragnorock's group buys, and though I don't expect anything to be done retroactively regarding these ones, I certainly wouldn't mind to see some changes for future ones.
1x
75 keys $1.76 / each
100 keys $1.44 / each
Fair enough. Like I said, I'll likely be able to share discounts in the future threads but as before I'm not going to spend $300 buying extras just so we can all get a discounted rate.I wouldn't expect you to.
... if anyone wants to continue to hate on this or any of my buys instead of amicably approaching me with feedback, go cry to your parents because you obviously still live at home and they're responsible for making everything better.Is this directed at me? I ask because it immediately follows an exchange between you and I which I thought was entirely amicable.
I'm still pissed at Elitekeyboards for proposing to bump prices and not pass it on to ClickClack!!!! He calls that ****ing socialism!!
I know exactly how you feel Adam. A little bit of me cries inside every day my mail box is empty!
I got my keys on Friday and I'm in Australia.
Holy ****, they came in!
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Unfortunately, as you can see from the last photo, A couple came damaged = (. At least I can't see it when I'm using them on my keyboards.
Sorry to hear about that man, looks like you're the only one so far. I'll make it up to you in the Nyancat GB.
Uhh, looks fine to me? That is exactly how all of them look man. Unless you're talking about some damage I can't see in the pics, I've no idea what you're talking about. Look at all the pictures from the thread, the legend is exactly the same.
Maybe he means the connection of the "V" shape under the star to the border. Terran logo is supposed to look like that.Show Image(http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/d/de/TerranDominion_Logo2.jpg)
I actually meant the negative space V, but yeah he could be referring to the fatness of the positive space connection.