Author Topic: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality  (Read 7244 times)

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Offline dario

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Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« on: Fri, 22 January 2016, 14:30:23 »
So I was looking for a way to convert my dye subbed black Realforce 88UB into a blank keyboard, but as soon as I started looking around for a solution, I noticed there actually isn't any blank Topre keyset on the market currently (of any color), even if there was before.

However, there ARE blank HHKB keyset around, and those keycaps should be quite similar, if not completely the same as Realforce.

Of course, the layout is somewhat different, but I figured if I buy 2 of those, there should be enough keycaps to cover my full Realforce layout.

There is even blank red Topre ESC key on EK, so there goes that too.

Still, two things bother me regarding the feasibility of that plan:

1) What is the thickness and surface finish of HHKB keycaps  (more fine of more rough?) compared to the ones on the Realforce?
Are those two maybe exactly the same and produced by the same manufacturer (Topre), and then HHKB just buys finished product and installs it on their keyboard before shipping - or are they really produced by PFU (which probably means somewhat lower quality)?

2) Do rows on the HHKB have the same height as the ones on the Realforce?

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 22 January 2016, 14:43:17 »
I'm 99% sure the keycap quality is the same as they are the same key caps.

Offline eat_the_food

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 22 January 2016, 15:15:44 »
I'm 99% sure the keycap quality is the same as they are the same key caps.

Correct - They are exactly the same caps.



Left is RF esc, right is HHKB esc
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Offline dario

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 22 January 2016, 16:07:41 »
Correct - They are exactly the same caps.

Well then, that's great news!  ;D

Quote
Left is RF esc, right is HHKB esc

Now this is very interesting and it raises the question of the aforementioned rows compatibility.

On the HHKB, row 1 is where the ESC is, but row 2 is alphas.

On the Realforce side, ESC is also row 1, but row 2 is where the tilda and numerics are.

Does that mean I will have to leave my Realforce tilda and numerics just as they are? Almost everything else seems to be interchangeable.

Am I missing something here?



« Last Edit: Fri, 22 January 2016, 16:10:12 by dario »

Offline dario

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 22 January 2016, 16:25:01 »
I've just done some further investigation.

It seems that row 1 and row 2 on Topre keyboards have exactly the same height. Can anyone confirm this?

« Last Edit: Fri, 22 January 2016, 16:27:29 by dario »

Offline keshley

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 22 January 2016, 19:41:13 »
I've just done some further investigation.

It seems that row 1 and row 2 on Topre keyboards have exactly the same height. Can anyone confirm this?

Show Image


I've just done some further investigation.

It seems that row 1 and row 2 on Topre keyboards have exactly the same height. Can anyone confirm this?

Show Image


Looks like you're looking for and ISO 87U?

You won't have caps from the HHKB for enter, backspace, or shift. Rest will all fit.

Function row is same profile as number row.
  
HHKB Pro 2       Pok3r

Offline dario

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 22 January 2016, 22:07:56 »
Looks like you're looking for and ISO 87U?

Yeah, it's marketed as Realforce 88UB because of that 1 extra key.

Quote
You won't have caps from the HHKB for enter, backspace, or shift. Rest will all fit.

Yes, ISO enter is not available in HHKB's keyset, same goes for backspace and left shift. But what about my right shift? It's 2.75 units long. Maybe it can be replaced with a left shift in HHKB's set? It seems long enough judging from the pictures, but I don't know...

Quote
Function row is same profile as number row.

That's a good news.

Offline KeypressGraphics

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 23 January 2016, 04:22:28 »
dario If its colored keycaps you're after you can buy the blank off-white HHKB set and then use iDye Poly to dye them whichever color you like.
May all your key presses strike true.

 
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Offline bocahgundul

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 23 January 2016, 04:26:59 »
Is it just me or the black keycaps have more texture than the white one?

Offline dario

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 23 January 2016, 04:40:35 »
dario If its colored keycaps you're after you can buy the blank off-white HHKB set and then use iDye Poly to dye them whichever color you like.

Never heard of iDye, but good to know.  ;D

I'm actually looking for a blank all white set to try to match it to iMac colors, but that's impossible to find for an ISO layout.

If you are really ready to spend enormous amounts of money, then it is possible to buy black ISO Realforce + HHKB white blanks + another HHKB white blanks + one Realforce white ANSI just for the white casing + japanese set of Realforce white keycaps just for the L-shaped enter key... and then transplant PCB from black ISO to white ANSI, and add all the appropriate white caps.

However, even that solution is not perfect, since you would be still stuck with black backspace, black left shift (and possibly black right shift?).

So... yeah. I'm just gonna leave it all black.  ;D

Is it just me or the black keycaps have more texture than the white one?

This seems to be the truth. I've came across that kind of comments many times before on this forum.
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 January 2016, 04:44:17 by dario »

Offline tkim

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 24 June 2016, 09:14:51 »
Hi guys, thought I would link this post i made here which is somewhat related..

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83012.0

Offline dario

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Re: Realforce VS HHKB keycaps quality
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 15 March 2017, 08:27:03 »
It has been a long time since I started this topic, and in the meantime, I've had an opportunity to try different kinds of topre keycaps -- namely default Realforce, blank HHKB's, all kinds of hand crafted artisans etc.

So, I finally feel competent enough to answer my own question from the first post in this thread.

Yes, there is definitely minute difference in quality between Realforce and HHKB keycaps.

They are both made of same PBT plastic and they are both obviously made based on the same specifications; however, it seems to me that they are actually not made in the same factory, or under same quality control process.

There is this guy right above my post that claims feeling of typing changed slightly when he put HHKB keycaps on his Realforce. I've done the same thing and I can not confirm this. I'm not saying this is necessarily untrue, I just can't tell even if it is. To me, it feels completely the same. If there is any difference, it must be either a placebo or something so slight it's nearly impossible to detect even after months of use.

However, there is something else that bothers me about HHKB keycaps, and that is aesthetics. Almost all of them have circle impressions on the upside, right above (and in the same shape of) the stem. You can easily see on the pictures what I'm talking about. This is a real disappointment, and I've seen the same problem on various cheap Chinese PBT keysets. I'm going to have to guess and tell that they let them cool down too quickly, and thus they shrank too fast, leaving this kind of traces. Absolutely none of the default printed Realforce keycaps had these circle impressions, and almost all of HHKB keycaps do.