Penumbra, SA Pulse, Dolch copies?

[jwsmite]

Hi,

I'm pretty new to this but I've found a few keycap sets that I really like, Penumbra, SA Pulse, Dolch, Danger Zone, SA 1965. But they're all unavailable. Can't we just do a group buy with the same (or similar) guidelines and do a rip off, if they aren't selling them anymore then it can't be said that we're taking any business away.

I was also thinking of doing my own designs but inspired by the BBC Micro keycap set, are there any copyright things that I should worry about? using the original font or logo?

What do people think, has this been done before?

[dgneo]

Hi,

I'm pretty new to this but I've found a few keycap sets that I really like, Penumbra, SA Pulse, Dolch, Danger Zone, SA 1965. But they're all unavailable. Can't we just do a group buy with the same (or similar) guidelines and do a rip off, if they aren't selling them anymore then it can't be said that we're taking any business away.

I was also thinking of doing my own designs but inspired by the BBC Micro keycap set, are there any copyright things that I should worry about? using the original font or logo?

What do people think, has this been done before?

It's been tried, and failed on multiple occasions.

Your best bet is to keep an eye on Classifieds and/or MechMarket, and pick up a set there. Penumbra will be expensive, if you can find it. Pulse pops up somewhat frequently, I've seen a couple DZ sets, and a few 1965s as well. Just need patience.

[justinmtype]

TaiHao is doing a bunch of clones:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5xyxyk/preorder_taihao_carbon_pulse/

Penumbra next?

[merlin64]

Dolch is currently running, and you have one day to put in your order! It closes tomorrow!

[zslane]

I'm pretty new to this but I've found a few keycap sets that I really like, Penumbra, SA Pulse, Dolch, Danger Zone, SA 1965. But they're all unavailable. Can't we just do a group buy with the same (or similar) guidelines and do a rip off, if they aren't selling them anymore then it can't be said that we're taking any business away.

Except for Dolch, all those sets are SA. There is currently only one source for SA and they are so backlogged right now that any new SA run won't see production for at least twelve months.

If MaxKeys is a legitimate SA clone maker, then maybe reach out to them (no, I don't know how myself).

[Puddsy]

Generally it's a bad move to try and run clone sets. It's kind of a Grey Area as far as Intellectual Property goes, too.

I'd advise keeping an eye on the classifieds.

[zslane]

Apart from certain kinds of novelty legends (graphical primarily), none of this resides in a gray area of IP law. Colorways, conventional alphanumeric/symbolic legends, and even fonts are not protected by IP laws.

[Puddsy]

Apart from certain kinds of novelty legends (graphical primarily), none of this resides in a gray area of IP law. Colorways, conventional alphanumeric/symbolic legends, and even fonts are not protected by IP laws.

i've been told otherwise before

either way it's a **** move to copy someone else's colorway

[zslane]

Nobody owns creative rights to a collection of colors. Even Coca-Cola doesn't own red-and-white on a soda can.

I know that some designers desperately want to think they "own" their colorway, but they don't.

[Captainbuttmonkey]

I swear this is like the never-ending argument of the mech community haha. Personally my school of thought is the same as zslane.

Apart from certain kinds of novelty legends (graphical primarily), none of this resides in a gray area of IP law. Colorways, conventional alphanumeric/symbolic legends, and even fonts are not protected by IP laws.

either way it's a **** move to copy someone else's colorway

Is that not exactly what the people who created the keysets have done? Many of them are just that, a copy of someone else's colourway?

[justinmtype]

Whoever invented white letters on black keys should be pissed.   

[Niomosy]

Let the copies flow.

[Niomosy]

Apart from certain kinds of novelty legends (graphical primarily), none of this resides in a gray area of IP law. Colorways, conventional alphanumeric/symbolic legends, and even fonts are not protected by IP laws.

i've been told otherwise before

either way it's a **** move to copy someone else's colorway

By whom, though?  I tend to want to go to reputable sources for this kind of information.  Something like, say, the US Copyright Office?  Let's see what they have to say. 

Keysets have two problems.  One, they are merely coloration differences from other sets.  Mere color changes are insufficient.  Two, they are part of a functional and useful element.  Functional and useful elements aren't protected.

Lastly, we had Melissa at SP confirm that there's no protection and customers can order any color combination they wish to order.

906.3:
Mere coloration or mere variations in coloring alone are not eligible for copyright
protection. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a).

Merely adding or changing one or relatively few colors in a work, or combining expected
or familiar pairs or sets of colors is not copyrightable, regardless of whether the changes
are made by hand, computer, or some other process. This is the case even if the
coloration makes a work more aesthetically pleasing or commercially valuable. For
example, the Office will not register a visual art work if the author merely added
relatively few colors to a preexisting design or simply created multiple colorized
versions of the same basic design. Copyright Registration for Colorized Versions of Black
and White Motion Pictures, 52 Fed. Reg. 23,443, 23,444 (June 22, 1987). Likewise, the
Office generally will not register a visual art work if the author merely applied colors to
aid in the visual display of a graph, chart, table, device, or other article.

906.8:
Functional and Useful Elements

The copyright law does not protect useful articles, utilitarian designs, or any functional
portion of a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work. However, the decorative
ornamentation on a useful article may be registrable if it is separable from the
functional aspects of that article. For example, a lamp is a considered a useful article,
because it has an intrinsic utilitarian function, namely, to provide lighting. By contrast, a
three-dimensional floral design affixed to the base of a lamp or a two-dimensional
garden design painted on a lamp shade does not have a useful purpose. The U.S.
Copyright Office may register those design elements if they are separable from the
functional aspects of the lamp and if they are sufficiently original and creative. Fabrica,
Inc. v. El Dorado Corp., 697 F.2d 890, 893 (9th Cir. 1983) (“if an article has any intrinsic
utilitarian function, it can be denied copyright protection except to the extent that its
artistic features can be identified separately and are capable of existing independently
as a work of art”).

[timjr]

It looks like Penumbra is available here, by the way:  https://www.originativeco.com/products/penumbra

Note that that is a GMK set.