Eagle Scouts

[MKULTRA]

I wish I could do camp staff.  But in our council they only pay you for 1 hour a day, 23 hours volunteer.  If I did it, it wouldn't be for the money, just the experience.  But with college coming up I need all the money I can get this summer.

[Leslieann]

I find uniforms to be a good idea, not just for Scouting but even for school. So much of the nonsense that goes on in schools today centers on what kids wear. A uniform alleviates that and makes a statement; "I'm here on business, the business of learning."

I do agree to an extent, but not entirely.

In US (and British) prisons, men wear uniforms, depending on where and what level of security, the women may or may not. Men's focus on fashion revolves around using clothing to make a statements such as affiliation, lifestyle, etc... Keeping them all looking alike is part of keeping control by placing them on a similar level. Male prison wear can even be used as part of their punishment, such as pink jumpsuits or underwear (essentially feminizing them).

On the other hand, fashion is more of an extension of a woman's personality, and less about a statement or affiliation. Women will be just as catty regardless of wearing the same thing, and in fact, it can even make them worse since women hate seeing another woman wearing the same thing as them.

[Hak Foo]

I find uniforms to be a good idea, not just for Scouting but even for school. So much of the nonsense that goes on in schools today centers on what kids wear. A uniform alleviates that and makes a statement; "I'm here on business, the business of learning."

What I never understood, though, is when you look at many excellent schools that DON'T have uniform policies, they don't bring that in as a discussion point.  I think people like the uniform answer because it's something they can do in failing, and especially poor, schools, that doesn't involve spending money or getting parents to actually be interested in their children's schooling.

I don't think they're dorky at all. In fact, in my area one of the local troops actually decided to wear these crazy Smoky the Bear hats. No joke! It's a sad commentary that some kids today make fun of Scouting because adults have likely taught them to do so. Why?

Because it sticks out and has a mildly anachronistic appearance?  If your school had a club where the kids all dressed up in period-accurate Confederate military uniforms, or Neon Genesis Evangelon plug-suits, your kids would laugh at them too, no matter how well executed the outfits were.

These are kids and teenagers-- creating identities by establishing in and out groups is a big part of their life.

Well, Scouting is unabashedly pro-American. And that just drives some people nuts; today kids are fed a steady curriculum designed to make children ashamed of their country. Scouting does the opposite, and so they pay the price.

But won't an attitude of patriotism and national pride make them less likely to demand more from their institutions?  Sorry to cheapen it by metaphor, but isn't a patriot little more than a nation-state fanboy?

[MKULTRA]

This isn't a thread to bash scouting.  If you don't like the organization, move on and don't post.

[Krogenar]

In US (and British) prisons, men wear uniforms, depending on where and what level of security, the women may or may not. Men's focus on fashion revolves around using clothing to make a statements such as affiliation, lifestyle, etc... Keeping them all looking alike is part of keeping control by placing them on a similar level. Male prison wear can even be used as part of their punishment, such as pink jumpsuits or underwear (essentially feminizing them).

On the other hand, fashion is more of an extension of a woman's personality, and less about a statement or affiliation. Women will be just as catty regardless of wearing the same thing, and in fact, it can even make them worse since women hate seeing another woman wearing the same thing as them.

That sounds very reasonable. I'm just not sure how prison uniforms relate to Scout uniforms. Prisoners wear uniforms (as I see it) so that they are easily identifiable as prisoners (stripes or safety orange in the U.S. prison systems) so they can be spotted if they try to escape, etc. How would any of that relate to Scout uniforms?

[Krogenar]

But won't an attitude of patriotism and national pride make them less likely to demand more from their institutions?

No. Scouting emphasizes service to your country -- not about making demands. In order to become an Eagle Scout, the highest rank in Scouting, the Scout must put together a plan to build something that will benefit the local community in some concrete way. It could be a bicycle track, a sign for the high school, something that helps. Scouting is about service.

When you say, "demand more" from institutions, do you mean "more" in terms of morality, and integrity? If so, then Scouting already has very high moral and ethical standards -- far higher than that displayed by your typical politician. If you mean "more" in the sense of "more stuff, more services" then probably not. Scouting is designed to freight a young man with useful skills. It hearkens back to a time when rugged individualism was an American ideal. Individual liberty and strength is less of an ideal today -- infantilization of citizens is what's in style nowadays.

Sorry to cheapen it by metaphor, but isn't a patriot little more than a nation-state fanboy?

That's how most Europeans feel about nationalism; it's treated as a kind of disease, something to avoid. Scouting has a very strong streak of American Exceptionalism about it -- the sense that America is uniquely special, deserving of protection. Loving your country doesn't mean you're blind to its problems. But you're absolutely correct -- that kind of sentiment is not in style, it is anachronistic. But I would rather be an anachronism than a hipster socialist who worships government rather than making themselves into a stronger individual.

[vivalarevolución]

I want to delete this post.

[MKULTRA]

Indianapolis aw shiet.  Im in Fishers.

[Leslieann]

That sounds very reasonable. I'm just not sure how prison uniforms relate to Scout uniforms. Prisoners wear uniforms (as I see it) so that they are easily identifiable as prisoners (stripes or safety orange in the U.S. prison systems) so they can be spotted if they try to escape, etc. How would any of that relate to Scout uniforms?

It was about school uniforms, prison is just school on steroids minus the classroom.

As I said, not all prisons require uniforms, even those that do, it's not always orange, pink or stripes. More than a few use denim.

[MKULTRA]

That sounds very reasonable. I'm just not sure how prison uniforms relate to Scout uniforms. Prisoners wear uniforms (as I see it) so that they are easily identifiable as prisoners (stripes or safety orange in the U.S. prison systems) so they can be spotted if they try to escape, etc. How would any of that relate to Scout uniforms?

It was about school uniforms, prison is just school on steroids minus the classroom.

As I said, not all prisons require uniforms, even those that do, it's not always orange, pink or stripes. More than a few use denim.

Well in prisons also have free healthcare, free education, television...

[Leslieann]

That sounds very reasonable. I'm just not sure how prison uniforms relate to Scout uniforms. Prisoners wear uniforms (as I see it) so that they are easily identifiable as prisoners (stripes or safety orange in the U.S. prison systems) so they can be spotted if they try to escape, etc. How would any of that relate to Scout uniforms?

It was about school uniforms, prison is just school on steroids minus the classroom.

As I said, not all prisons require uniforms, even those that do, it's not always orange, pink or stripes. More than a few use denim.

Well in prisons also have free healthcare, free education, television...

Not sure what that has to do with it.

[vivalarevolución]

Indianapolis aw shiet.  Im in Fishers.

Nice.  The mean streets of Indianapolis are a little different than the 'burbs.  You guys need an adult leader for Philmont anytime soon?  I will gladly go.  I'm sorta serious, but not really serious.

[MKULTRA]

Indianapolis aw shiet.  Im in Fishers.

Nice.  The mean streets of Indianapolis are a little different than the 'burbs.  You guys need an adult leader for Philmont anytime soon?  I will gladly go.  I'm sorta serious, but not really serious.

I wouldn't do Philmont so I wouldn't really know, and I'm bout to age out so meh.

I had the opportunity to do Sea Base but **** happened.  You a Firecrafter?

[Lanx]

you know which types of scouts i hate when i met them at the jamboree's? the mid-westerns. they all wore the stupid bolo-tie... that's not being a uniformed scout! there are 101 ways to make use of that dorky neckerchief and only 1 way to make use of the even sillier bolo tie.

[Lanx]

holy crap, offtopic

i found a series called

are you tougher than a boy scout

i think it's history channel, google it!

[vivalarevolución]

Indianapolis aw shiet.  Im in Fishers.

Nice.  The mean streets of Indianapolis are a little different than the 'burbs.  You guys need an adult leader for Philmont anytime soon?  I will gladly go.  I'm sorta serious, but not really serious.

I wouldn't do Philmont so I wouldn't really know, and I'm bout to age out so meh.

I had the opportunity to do Sea Base but **** happened.  You a Firecrafter?

No I'm not a Firecrafter.  I didn't even know what that was until I looked it up.  I wasn't active with the Crossroads of America council, but a different one up north in Indiana.

[MKULTRA]

Indianapolis aw shiet.  Im in Fishers.

Nice.  The mean streets of Indianapolis are a little different than the 'burbs.  You guys need an adult leader for Philmont anytime soon?  I will gladly go.  I'm sorta serious, but not really serious.

I wouldn't do Philmont so I wouldn't really know, and I'm bout to age out so meh.

I had the opportunity to do Sea Base but **** happened.  You a Firecrafter?

No I'm not a Firecrafter.  I didn't even know what that was until I looked it up.  I wasn't active with the Crossroads of America council, but a different one up north in Indiana.

Ah makes sense.