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Implemented changes to the GROUP BUYS subforum and the VToS
Moderation Team:
Dear site members,
The moderation/administration team has been reviewing the state of the marketplace, and we are aware that as geekhack evolves, our site rules must also evolve to stay relevant and helpful for the community.
One of the issues with the Group Buys subforum has been that it limits members with "Vendor" status from posting Preorder or Group Buy type threads. However, the line between community Group Buys and vendor Preorders has been blurring continuously, and given the bulk of what we've seen posted in the Group Buys subforum to date, it makes sense to be more inclusive (until the time comes to revise the terms yet again.) You may have already seen some vendor buys listed in the Group Buys section recently.
We propose that the Group Buys subforum be renamed to "Group Buys and Preorders".
Regular community members, Artisans, and Vendors will be able to post in "Group Buys and Preorders". Preorders imply projects that require group funding and are more relevant for Artisans and Vendors.
* Group Buy thread titles should be prefaced with the familiar [GB]
* Preorder thread titles should be prefaced with [PO].
A common example of a pre-order situation on geekhack: a vendor wishes to have a custom keycap set produced and needs funding to pay a manufacturer with some profit in mind. They will accept preorders from the community in order to have this keycap set produced. The vendor will probably be selling left-overs in their own store at a higher price afterwards.
A group buy type thread is the same as before: a forum member wishes to collect funds and order a large amount of a specific product from a manufacturer and collects funds from other site members for the payment to the manufacturer posts a GB thread. Group Buys should state terms such as MoQ, price tiers per different amounts of product ordered, etc. Group Buys are typically not done for profit.
Anything that is not a pre-order that a vendor wishes to list on geekhack must be listed in the Vendor Forums area*
There will be a limit of 2 concurrent (from starting and until finished delivery) Group Buy / Preorder threads per Member/Artisan and 4 concurrent Preorder threads per Vendor.
. . .
*With that, we also intend to change section 5a of the Vendor Terms of Service (VToS) as follows:
5a. Commercial posts advertising premade, available product(s) shall be made in the Vendor's own subforum, or in the absence of such, in the general vendor subforum only**. Pre-orders that seek group funding from the geekhack community may be posted in the "Group Buys and Preorders" section.
(5b. **In the absence of a vendor forum, commercial postings may be made in the artisan services forum with permission from Moderator Team and/or an administrator.)
SpAmRaY:
What about Interest Checks from Vendors? Would that fall under 5a?
Photoelectric:
Interest Checks from vendors have always been allowed to be posted in the IC section. It's the actual selling part that's getting sorted out here.
(P.S.: this is all keeping in mind our overall history of vendors participating on geekhack--by far most have been small-scale vendors that are also participating community members, and some resellers that focus on custom keyboard goods. Most major brand vendors don't seem to come by much. These changes should make it more straightforward for small-scale community member "vendors" such as ZealPC, TheKeyCompany, etc. because their "group buy" preorders are not much different from normal community group buys or artisan sales.)
Puddsy:
--- Quote ---A common example of a pre-order situation on geekhack: a vendor wishes to have a custom keycap set produced and needs funding to pay a manufacturer with some profit in mind. They will accept preorders from the community in order to have this keycap set produced. The vendor will probably be selling left-overs in their own store at a higher price afterwards.
A group buy type thread is the same as before: a forum member wishes to collect funds and order a large amount of a specific product from a manufacturer and collects funds from other site members for the payment to the manufacturer posts a GB thread. Group Buys should state terms such as MoQ, price tiers per different amounts of product ordered, etc. Group Buys are typically not done for profit.
--- End quote ---
Wording is too broad. This wouldn't make it past my editor.
I thought it went like this:
PO: "I'm selling <generic keyboard product> that I will make myself (i.e. artisan caps), or have already made myself. I will sell it at a markup to you, the consumer, to make it worth it for me financially to keep bringing you this product."
GB: "I'm selling <generic keyboard product> that I will pay a manufacturer to produce. I need to gather funds to pay the manufacturer (as well as incidentals). I will include a small ($1-3) fee in the price to make this process worth it for me"
What's written above just sounds like: "I need money to fund a product that I'm bringing to you, regardless of whether or not I'm making it myself."
I'm all for the idea of separating the two. Just make sure it's an actual separation, not just a weird vernacular thing.
Photoelectric:
Right so there doesn't really need to be a formal distinction between the two. It's optional to select whatever matches an individual buy better, subjectively.
The actual situation is that most of our so-called current vendors collect money to have a product made by someone else (such as GMK keycap sets) and then perhaps sell left-overs at higher price. It's not a pure group buy in the original sense that it used to be done on geekhack, where a group buy organizer wasn't expected to make much, if any, profit. MOQ and price breaks were posted, everything used to be detailed pretty well. Nowadays it's getting more and more slack, and the boundary between normal member "group buy" and "vendor" "group buy" is quite blurred.
A Group Buy is in the old sense of the term as it used to be on GH: a community member collects funds to buy a large quantity of product in order to get a lower price break per unit or reach a MOQ.
A Preorder is a collection of funds to have a custom product made and sold to those who participate in a preorder at a lower price during the preorder period--that's how it's frequently done on, say, kickstarter. In our specific keyboard world, it can be a payment to a factory to make a custom product or to an artisan to make that product in their backyard.
Again, we're not going to police every single thread to make sure it's labeled correctly. The point of the change is to be more inclusive of crowd-funded buys that are also for-profit.
TLDR: Group Buys = not for profit, Preorders = could be for profit, with lower price during preorder.
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