Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Cherry Blue's Now Available!

[OverSky]

Hey everyone!

This keyboard has just became available for purchase in the last few hours and I have bought one largely because of the things I have read on this forum. I know I've also read that a few people here have been waiting for them to go on sale so I thought I would register and make this thread to make sure everyone here who wanted one could get one as it does say 'limited quantity'.

Regular Version:
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mceb

Blank Key Version:
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mcnpek

I was actually planning on buying a SteelSeries 7G from a nearby store tomorrow but I randomly checked the page again and couldn't resist placing an order.

If anyone who has tried both blue and black switches could give me as detailed a comparison as possible I would really appreciate it.

Furthermore if anyone has access to both keyboards currently and could give me a comparison when completing the task of hitting 1122334455 in succession as fast as possible(also hitting the buttons quite hard) that would be even more helpful.

I do want to thank everyone here for all the posts they've made in this section as it's been by far the most helpful resource while narrowing down my options.. or trying to.

Not that this seems like the kind of community where I'd have to explain why I'm spending over $150 on a keyboard but if anyone is wondering feel free to check out one my videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXgBFt7HBOo

Annnnd now.. I wait for next weeks mail..

[ch_123]

I've never used either (although Im thinking of getting a blue cherry filco at some point) but I may be able to answer some of your questions -

The black switch is a linear switch, that is to say, the amount of force you have to apply to depress the key increases in a linear fashion as you press the key down. This is in contrast to most other key switches (including the blue one) where the force you need to exert increases rapidly until there is some sort of bump or click and then the force required to push the key down further is much less.

If you've never used a mechanical keyboard before, you can see what I mean when you press slowly on a key on a regular rubber dome board - you'll note that soon after you press on the switch you'll feel a lot of resistance, then it "gives way" and the amount of effort required to push it down to the bottom is much less.

I've heard tell that the black switches aren't particularly pleasant to type on as they are quite stiff, but some people seem to think they're the best for gaming. The blues are much less stiff and also make a "click" noise when the switch is activated.

[IBI]

The black ones aren't stiff, they're the opposite - too springy and not definite enough unless you really hit them. The blacks do seem to be highly sensitive to the keycap snugness though, The filco blacks are supposed to be decent while the cherry-built keyboard with blacks I've got (the K1) is as described.

[mmgoose]

there are no "slow" keyboards, only slow fingers. use alt + # instead of double tapping.

[ch_123]

The black ones aren't stiff,

I was referring to the peak force versus that of the blue cherries.

[OverSky]

there are no "slow" keyboards, only slow fingers. use alt + # instead of double tapping.

I'm currently playing WC3 not BW.. and SC2 did not have alt + # functionality on the build I played at Blizzcon and in all likelihood will not have it on release.

Are you saying everyone who is claims switching from membrane to mechanical raised their typing speed is lying?

[mmgoose]

I'm currently playing WC3 not BW.. and SC2 did not have alt + # functionality on the build I played at Blizzcon and in all likelihood will not have it on release.

Are you saying everyone who is claims switching from membrane to mechanical raised their typing speed is lying?

i'm saying if you're slow on rubbers you'll continue to be slow on springs. speed comes from how fast the neurons in your brain are firing, not the actuation of a key.

[watduzhkstand4]

bought it!

[OverSky]

i'm saying if you're slow on rubbers you'll continue to be slow on springs. speed comes from how fast the neurons in your brain are firing, not the actuation of a key.

It comes from both obviously..

[mmgoose]

well, if moon endorses it then it must be the best gaming keyboard ever. silly me. 1a2a3a...

[jkkhop]

I was going to get a Filco with Cherry Browns.. but now I don't know. What's so special about the Cherry Blues, apart from being more clicky?


quote from: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

"The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown."

[OverSky]

well, if moon endorses it then it must be the best gaming keyboard ever. silly me. 1a2a3a...

No idea what you're talking about.. honestly I wish this community could see how trash your posts are.

[watduzhkstand4]

I was going to get a Filco with Cherry Browns.. but now I don't know. What's so special about the Cherry Blues, apart from being more clicky?


quote from: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

"The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown."

Just the hype imo. There isn't may blue ones out there.

[OverSky]

I was going to get a Filco with Cherry Browns.. but now I don't know. What's so special about the Cherry Blues, apart from being more clicky?


quote from: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

"The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown."

Yeah as far as I have understood the only difference between the brown and the blue switches is the browns require less pressure to be pushed down and have reduced audible and tactile feedback.

[mmgoose]

No idea what you're talking about.. honestly I wish this community could see how trash your posts are.

oh, i'm sorry i was wrong. please, buy the 100$ keyboard that professional gamers use or the cherry switches that are obviously so much faster than the rubber domes--it has been proven to raise apm after all. you'll be making a very wise decision.

[IBI]

No idea what you're talking about.. honestly I wish this community could see how trash your posts are.

I don't think we need any insults, the opinion that the mechanical characteristics of a keyboard has little effect on the activation times for it's keys seems like a perfectly valid one.

[OverSky]

oh, i'm sorry i was wrong. please, buy the 100$ keyboard that professional gamers use or the cherry switches that are obviously so much faster than the rubber domes--it has been proven to raise apm after all. you'll be making a very wise decision.

I don't know of a single progamer who uses a mechanical keyboard..
They all use the DT35 (http://www.edepot.cn/images/sem_dt35_b.jpg) coming from TL I'm sure you already know that..

[OverSky]

I don't think we need any insults, the opinion that the mechanical characteristics of a keyboard has little effect on the activation times for it's keys seems like a perfectly valid one.

All I'm saying is that if you were from the community we are from you could see his posts for what they are..

Simply look at this guys post history and realize that he's joined a forum where people obsess about keyboards and has taken it upon himself to tell everyone the things they are buying aren't necessary and $10 membranes are the way to go...

It's not hard to see who's being confrontational and it sucks.

[watduzhkstand4]

What is there to argue about? The fact here is that everyone loves mechanical keyboards. We don't care what programmers use because they can use whatever they want, but if they're not using a mechanical keyboard, then they're missing out on some good stuff.

[jkkhop]

Nice little discussion on Blue Cherry vs Brown here.

Personally, I think the brown cherries are better for gaming.  I've YET to hear anyone praise the Blacks or even White Alps copies for gaming.

Just don't buy the Steelseries 7G and I'll be happy.

I've already read from various sources that the brown cherries have the lightest feeling, which is what I'm looking for. So thank you for clarifying this. Definitely not going to get anything with black cherries like the Steelseries 7G

Going to get a filco with brown cherry switches.

[OverSky]

What is there to argue about? The fact here is that everyone loves mechanical keyboards. We don't care what programmers use because they can use whatever they want, but if they're not using a mechanical keyboard, then they're missing out on some good stuff.

Just a small correction that we're talking about progamers not programmers, as in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roek7iHyCGc

But yes your point still stands and it's also true that if you enjoy doing something, you will be more easily motivated to do it well and do it often.

Nice little discussion on Blue Cherry vs Brown here.

Personally, I think the brown cherries are better for gaming.  I've YET to hear anyone praise the Blacks or even White Alps copies for gaming.

Just don't buy the Steelseries 7G and I'll be happy.

Thanks again ripster, I actually almost said your name in my OP because I've found a ton of your posts really helpful.

I am very confident I would prefer the blue switches over the brown switches simply because I hit the keys quite hard and fast and am certain I want a keyboard that gives me solid and noticeable resistance to encourage that speed.

I will definitely let you guys know what I think of the KB when it arrives.

[jkkhop]

Good choice, if you like Light you'll like Brown Cherries.

For gaming you could always use AutoHotkey to add multimedia hotkeys and macros.  For that LED fix just hit the CapsLock a few times.  That'll blind ya!!

What comes to hotkeys I only use volume & mute buttons. This AutoHotkey -software is integrated in all filcos or what? I'll check it out.

[mmgoose]

I don't know of a single progamer who uses a mechanical keyboard..
They all use the DT35 (http://www.edepot.cn/images/sem_dt35_b.jpg) coming from TL I'm sure you already know that..

omg what? progamers don't use mechanical keyboards and instead they use rubber domed ones that are even less than 10$?

thank you for that information. i was wondering which country has never lost in starcraft in wcg please enlighten me.

[mmgoose]

All I'm saying is that if you were from the community we are from you could see his posts for what they are..

Simply look at this guys post history and realize that he's joined a forum where people obsess about keyboards and has taken it upon himself to tell everyone the things they are buying aren't necessary and $10 membranes are the way to go...

It's not hard to see who's being confrontational and it sucks.

i'm such a bad person aren't i... i am very sorry everyone.

[o2dazone]

What a crappy thread to advertise such an awesome keyboard. Bump

[Hak Foo]

i'm saying if you're slow on rubbers you'll continue to be slow on springs. speed comes from how fast the neurons in your brain are firing, not the actuation of a key.

Well, it depends on what you're looking for to an extent.  If you're smashing keys down extra hard to get that click or tactile response, then a switch which gives it to you might allow you to not strike as deep and slow, or might reduce exhaustion for longer sustained typing.

To throw my hat into the angry debate, I am a programmer (mostly PHP nowadays) and I use an early-90s 1391401 at work.  The feel helps with accuracy and speed, and not having it fail suddenly after a few months helps with productivity

[takasta]

i'm using the tenkeyless filco cherry blues currently that i ordered from Filco TW directly, absolutely great buy in my opinion except for the fact that ppl in the same room as me find the clicks on my keyboard either really annoying or they really like it. I like the fact that there is the quality of a filco keyboard on it and that it uses blue cherry mx switches. a + on this keyboard also that it is very portable and i love taking it on the road to use, showing it off sometimes as well haha.

The reduced keypad isn't that big of a deal for me. The only way that it has really affected me so far is that when i play dota, i can't use the numpad and use items haha, i'll have to click and use the specific item when using this keyboard. Other thatn that i just love typing on this keyboard. looks great, feels great, and the keys dont' seem to be wearing off that soon either. I think its because the lettering on it is laser etched? I'm not quite sure about that. nonetheless, if you're thinking of getting a portable mechanical keyboard but don't quite want to spend tehh money from a realforce or hhkb, definately get this keyboard or if not, get the tenkeyless with brown switches. I'm thinking of getting 1 with the brown switches as well haha.

[OverSky]

i'm using the tenkeyless filco cherry blues currently that i ordered from Filco TW directly, absolutely great buy in my opinion except for the fact that ppl in the same room as me find the clicks on my keyboard either really annoying or they really like it. I like the fact that there is the quality of a filco keyboard on it and that it uses blue cherry mx switches. a + on this keyboard also that it is very portable and i love taking it on the road to use, showing it off sometimes as well haha.

The reduced keypad isn't that big of a deal for me. The only way that it has really affected me so far is that when i play dota, i can't use the numpad and use items haha, i'll have to click and use the specific item when using this keyboard. Other thatn that i just love typing on this keyboard. looks great, feels great, and the keys dont' seem to be wearing off that soon either. I think its because the lettering on it is laser etched? I'm not quite sure about that. nonetheless, if you're thinking of getting a portable mechanical keyboard but don't quite want to spend tehh money from a realforce or hhkb, definately get this keyboard or if not, get the tenkeyless with brown switches. I'm thinking of getting 1 with the brown switches as well haha.

Thanks for posting, if you want to be able to use hotkeys for inventory in WC3 you should download this: http://warkeys.sourceforge.net/

This program includes something called autowarkey which uses autohotkey, the script will only be activated when WC3 is running and I've mapped my inventory as follows..

F5 F6 = top left/top right inventory
F7 F8 = middle left/ middle right inventory
F9 = bottom left

F10 is the menu so I don't bind that but you won't ever find you have 6 usable items anyways.

You can also do stuff like bind arrow keys to messages sent to your allies about which lanes are missing. etc..

I don't play dota but I would probably go to town making teamplay easier if I did.

Oh and also you can always rebind and move around any in-game hotkey, if you do that make sure to turn on custom hotkey support in the game options.

[mmgoose]

Well, it depends on what you're looking for to an extent.  If you're smashing keys down extra hard to get that click or tactile response, then a switch which gives it to you might allow you to not strike as deep and slow, or might reduce exhaustion for longer sustained typing.

To throw my hat into the angry debate, I am a programmer (mostly PHP nowadays) and I use an early-90s 1391401 at work.  The feel helps with accuracy and speed, and not having it fail suddenly after a few months helps with productivity

i'm only saying people shouldn't feel need to pay 150$ or more for a "gaming" keyboard to play better. a chobo (n00b) will stay a chobo regardless of the keyboard he's using. only practice can remedy that.

[Hak Foo]

Agreed.

I tend to look suspiciously at any hardware targeted explicitly for gamers.  Video cards advertised for gamers are all-too-often either "Let's fool the customer by saying that a FX5200 is the ideal gaming card" or "a $450 card that's only a little better than a $175 card in 95% of games".  I didn't like the whole "I'll slap my name on EVERY lousy piece of hardware with a red LED" Fata1ity thing, and there are a huge stack of "gaming" keyboards and mice which are of mediocre quality, but very pretty.

In a way, I'd expect the gaming community to almost be a closed, word-of-mouth thing, and brands that explicitly attempt to target them will always feel "fake"

However, there are a wide array of other reasons to get a good keyboard.  Now, if only most "gaming" keyboards fit the definition.

[Manyak]

Agreed.

I tend to look suspiciously at any hardware targeted explicitly for gamers.  Video cards advertised for gamers are all-too-often either "Let's fool the customer by saying that a FX5200 is the ideal gaming card" or "a $450 card that's only a little better than a $175 card in 95% of games".  I didn't like the whole "I'll slap my name on EVERY lousy piece of hardware with a red LED" Fata1ity thing, and there are a huge stack of "gaming" keyboards and mice which are of mediocre quality, but very pretty.

In a way, I'd expect the gaming community to almost be a closed, word-of-mouth thing, and brands that explicitly attempt to target them will always feel "fake"

However, there are a wide array of other reasons to get a good keyboard.  Now, if only most "gaming" keyboards fit the definition.

There are only three products where the "gamer" term actually fits.

The first one is video cards. Yes nVidia is playing most people for fools and just renaming cards to make them sound like a newer product. Yes they seriously overcharge for the top of the line models even though a card that's half the price is still 85% as fast. But the truth of the matter is that there are only two types of video cards: Workstation cards and Gaming cards. Workstation cards are tuned for AA, a lossless z-buffer, two-sided lighting, and other stuff that is important to CAD and Rendering programs. Gaming cards concentrate on almost nothing but their texture fillrate. This is why workstation cards don't do so well in games and vice versa. And therefore, "gaming GFX card" is not just marketing.

The second one is sound cards. Simply put, if it has EAX then it's a gamer card. If it doesn't then it's not. Of course that doesn't mean that its sound quality is as good as some other non-EAX cards, but it does perform 3D sound processing in video games that others don't. I don't find it necessary in the least bit, a lot of games don't support it anymore in Vista, and you need 5.1 or 7.1 speakers to hear it's effects properly, but it's still not just marketing.

The third one is mice. Most hardcore FPS gamers use low sensitivity settings on their mouse - this means that they have to move the mouse very fast and over large distances on their mousepad to move around. 80%-90% of standard mice can't handle that kind of acceleration and speed (just try to get a cheap-o mouse and move it as fast as you can on a mousepad, see what happens to the cursor). So the term "gaming mouse" points to those mice that can (some better than others). Also, virtually all mice have some sort of auto-leveling feature built in - where if you want to draw a straight line across the screen it helps out by ignoring any minor vertical movements. Gaming mice never do that. So instead of gamers going around and testing out every mouse on the market the companies made it easier by pointing out which mice are (supposedly) guaranteed to fit these two gaming criteria.



But everything else is nothing but a scam and abuse of the market. Gaming keyboard, gaming headset, gaming speakers, gaming mousepad, gaming monitor, gaming computer case....really, wtf is a computer case going to do for your gaming?

[Rajagra]

But the truth of the matter is that there are only two types of video cards: Workstation cards and Gaming cards.

Unless, like nVidia, you use exactly the same hardware for both (GeForce & Quadro), program different firmware on the workstation version and charge twice as much.:lol:

[ch_123]

The third one is mice. Most hardcore FPS gamers use low sensitivity settings on their mouse - this means that they have to move the mouse very fast and over large distances on their mousepad to move around. 80%-90% of standard mice can't handle that kind of acceleration and speed (just try to get a cheap-o mouse and move it as fast as you can on a mousepad, see what happens to the cursor). So the term "gaming mouse" points to those mice that can (some better than others). Also, virtually all mice have some sort of auto-leveling feature built in - where if you want to draw a straight line across the screen it helps out by ignoring any minor vertical movements. Gaming mice never do that. So instead of gamers going around and testing out every mouse on the market the companies made it easier by pointing out which mice are (supposedly) guaranteed to fit these two gaming criteria.

I'd agree, but I think that a good gaming mouse generally makes a good general purpose mouse (unless you start to consider trackballs) so even that distinction is rather arbitrary.

really, wtf is a computer case going to do for your gaming?

Believe me, putting high end parts into a crappy low end case is a bad idea. That said, all the good cases out there aren't tacky "gamer" cases, so I guess your point stands. Again, another example of a good gamer part being a good part in general.

[skriefal]

Unless, like nVidia, you use exactly the same hardware for both (GeForce & Quadro), program different firmware on the workstation version and charge twice as much.:lol:

ATI does the same thing.  The FireGL cards use the same chips as the consumer-targeted Radeon HD cards, but with a different PCI ID.  The different ID forces the use of a different driver.

[Hak Foo]

Believe me, putting high end parts into a crappy low end case is a bad idea. That said, all the good cases out there aren't tacky "gamer" cases, so I guess your point stands. Again, another example of a good gamer part being a good part in general.

Agreed, but it seems like the right case is usually the "server" case model (3 inches deeper = 1000 times less cramped to work in)-- the "Gamer" case is all too often the same old mid-tower with some poorly colour-matched cold-cathodes and a front panel without taste.

But the truth of the matter is that there are only two types of video cards: Workstation cards and Gaming cards. Workstation cards are tuned for AA, a lossless z-buffer, two-sided lighting, and other stuff that is important to CAD and Rendering programs.

What gets me is the marketing though:

Among the gamer spectrum, you have the super-high-end cards, and fair enough reasonably targeted for gamers.  I wouldn't pay $600 for a card that spends 98% of its life idle.

You have the midrange cards, which few want to speak of (though that 4770 sounds appealing if they can make it fanless) although they'd be perfect for a lot of gamers.

And then you have low-end cards, which really need to be rebranded as something like "cards for people who need a dual output but don't game", because they're virtually misleading-- they might be older gaming designs, but they're unsuitable for much gaming.

And then there are the low-end workstation cards-- the $50 FireGL or Quadro model they slap into business PCs that need dual monitor support.  I always wondered what the deal was with them-- if they have the same optimizations as "real" workstation cards, or if they're just branded that way because businesses won't buy the gamer brands.

[Manyak]

I'd agree, but I think that a good gaming mouse generally makes a good general purpose mouse (unless you start to consider trackballs) so even that distinction is rather arbitrary.

Well yes you're absolutely right, but it's just that the opposite isn't always true. For some mice it is, like the Intellimouse 1.1a (old school!), but it's a lot easier to just play it safe.

Believe me, putting high end parts into a crappy low end case is a bad idea. That said, all the good cases out there aren't tacky "gamer" cases, so I guess your point stands. Again, another example of a good gamer part being a good part in general.

^^ What Hak Foo said.

But in the end, those good cases you are talking would be a lot more correctly marketed as "enthusiast" cases than gamer cases. Because by making something for a gamer you are implying that it does something for his gaming. A gaming case is as senseless as a photographer's sound card.

And there are plenty of cases that people see as low end just because of their brand name, but in reality have excellent cooling and cable management and are built like a rock. Like this Rosewill.

What gets me is the marketing though:

Among the gamer spectrum, you have the super-high-end cards, and fair enough reasonably targeted for gamers.  I wouldn't pay $600 for a card that spends 98% of its life idle.

You have the midrange cards, which few want to speak of (though that 4770 sounds appealing if they can make it fanless) although they'd be perfect for a lot of gamers.

And then you have low-end cards, which really need to be rebranded as something like "cards for people who need a dual output but don't game", because they're virtually misleading-- they might be older gaming designs, but they're unsuitable for much gaming.

And then there are the low-end workstation cards-- the $50 FireGL or Quadro model they slap into business PCs that need dual monitor support.  I always wondered what the deal was with them-- if they have the same optimizations as "real" workstation cards, or if they're just branded that way because businesses won't buy the gamer brands.

You know, that's a good question. I don't think it matter's much since whichever way those cards are tweaked there's no way they'd handle more than the bare minumum anyway. But still an interesting question.

But yeah I agree about the ultra-low end cards, those should just be labeled as plain "Desktop Graphics" or something. But I guess in a way yeah they still are gaming cards. I mean, I used to have a GeForce 6800 that ran Crysis at fully playable framerates at 1024x768. Yeah it's a pretty low resolution, but think about it for a second - if you were a gamer but all you could afford was a $25 video card, would you be gaming on a brand new 1920x1200 2ms LCD or an old 17" CRT?

See what I mean?

[Hak Foo]

Like this Rosewill.

I'm surprised.  It looks like it might be good for cable management (with no real motherboard tray, you can slip a lot of cables behind it), but it seems pretty flimsy construction wise.  That "top-to-bottom drive cage" layout is sort of common on older design cheap cases, and the punch-out slot covers are made of fail.

This is my favourite case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811128024

Or more accurately, the black 4x5.25" version (comes with a five-bay 3.5" internal drive cage instead of the lower 5.25 bays).  Roomy, cheap, reasonably tasteful design, solid.

I'm trying to decide if I want to de-case my rig and put it back in (not thrilled by the cooling of a bottom-mount PSU design)

[Manyak]

I'm surprised.  It looks like it might be good for cable management (with no real motherboard tray, you can slip a lot of cables behind it), but it seems pretty flimsy construction wise.  That "top-to-bottom drive cage" layout is sort of common on older design cheap cases, and the punch-out slot covers are made of fail.

This is my favourite case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811128024

Or more accurately, the black 4x5.25" version (comes with a five-bay 3.5" internal drive cage instead of the lower 5.25 bays).  Roomy, cheap, reasonably tasteful design, solid.

I'm trying to decide if I want to de-case my rig and put it back in (not thrilled by the cooling of a bottom-mount PSU design)

Most rosewill cases are built like crap, but that's one of the ones built out of steel. So you know it can take a beating.

As for bottom PSU cooling....well what heatsink do you have on your CPU? As long as you use one of the tower models - like a TRUE or megahalem - it should work just fine since it would direct hot air straight towards the rear fan.

And if I had to pick a favorite pre-manufactured case it would be the MountainMods Extended Ascension with this pedestal underneath. Those cases are absolutely massive - pretty much the only case out there that can fit a completely decked out computer and cooling system without any modding.

[Hak Foo]

Most rosewill cases are built like crap, but that's one of the ones built out of steel. So you know it can take a beating.

As for bottom PSU cooling....well what heatsink do you have on your CPU? As long as you use one of the tower models - like a TRUE or megahalem - it should work just fine since it would direct hot air straight towards the rear fan.

Xigmatek HDT-S1283.  The problem is that its AM2 mount-- on most AM2 boards (including the two I used)-- directs airflow up.

With the PSU at the top, that adds extra exhaust (esp. with a PSU with a bottom 120mm fan), but with a bottom PSU, it just directs into the 3" of space at the top of the case.

The Mountain Mods stuff always looks a little "let's show all the bolts" for my taste.

[watduzhkstand4]

Xigmatek HDT-S1283.  The problem is that its AM2 mount-- on most AM2 boards (including the two I used)-- directs airflow up.

With the PSU at the top, that adds extra exhaust (esp. with a PSU with a bottom 120mm fan), but with a bottom PSU, it just directs into the 3" of space at the top of the case.

The Mountain Mods stuff always looks a little "let's show all the bolts" for my taste.

Nice hs/f there for your cpu. What fan did you use for your hs/f?

[ch_123]

I always wondered what AMD were thinking when they designed that vertical CPU mount... Kind of irrelevant for me because I have one of these.

[IBI]

But everything else is nothing but a scam and abuse of the market. Gaming keyboard, gaming headset, gaming speakers, gaming mousepad, gaming monitor, gaming computer case....really, wtf is a computer case going to do for your gaming?

I'm not sure about that, N-key rollover on keyboards and no input lag on monitors certainly have a positive effect on gaming. And by all accounts Steelseries 5H headset is pretty amazing for detecting footsteps and similar in games and rubbish for music and similar.

If gaming mice are genuine because of their unusual movement patterns then why not gaming mousepads? Regardless, gaming mousepads are still good because otherwise the high quality mousepad market would be tiny.

A case can help your gaming by quietening the sounds of a graphics card and, in theory, guaranteeing there will be enough space for any graphics card you choose. A powerful graphics card seems to be the only common component that can't be cooled with a near silent heatsink and fan (in load).

The issue isn't that specific peripherals can't improve the gaming experience, it's that so many marketed as gaming peripherals don't.

Unless, like nVidia, you use exactly the same hardware for both (GeForce & Quadro), program different firmware on the workstation version and charge twice as much.:lol:

Because software isn't important when it comes to computers?

You have the midrange cards, which few want to speak of (though that 4770 sounds appealing if they can make it fanless) although they'd be perfect for a lot of gamers.

Well they made the 4850 passive (I've got one), so the cooler 4770 shouldn't be a problem.

And then you have low-end cards, which really need to be rebranded as something like "cards for people who need a dual output but don't game", because they're virtually misleading-- they might be older gaming designs, but they're unsuitable for much gaming.

At least intel have stopped refering to their integrated graphics as 'Extreme'

[ch_123]

At least intel have stopped refering to their integrated graphics as 'Extreme'

Probably because of it's upcoming entry into the real graphics market with the 'Larrabee' chipset.

[Hak Foo]

Nice hs/f there for your cpu. What fan did you use for your hs/f?

The stock one.

[Hak Foo]

I always wondered what AMD were thinking when they designed that vertical CPU mount... Kind of irrelevant for me because I have one of these.

Well, it's the motherboard designer's option to lay it out horizontal or vertical.  It didn't matter prior to the widespread popularity of tower coolers, which were dramatically different on side mounts.

Nice hs/f there for your cpu. What fan did you use for your hs/f?

The stock one.

Well they made the 4850 passive (I've got one), so the cooler 4770 shouldn't be a problem.

As best I can see, any 4770 at this point is virtually impossible to have, let alone the gimmicked kind.  They're all sold out at Newegg.

I also fear I've been spoiled by my HD3650 with a massive-overkill Accelero S2 on it (you can only get it to 50C by loading it and leaving the side of the case off to divert airflow.)

[IBI]

The stock one.

Yeah, I've got the Xigimatek 1283 as well and it's an impressive heatsink being cool and (very) quiet and cheap. It's better than the Noctua fans I bought which have been a bit of a disappointment (I need to try replacing them with the ones that came with the case, but those rubber screws are much difficult to use than the ones with the Xigimatek's fan).

[Hak Foo]

Yeah, I've got the Xigimatek 1283 as well and it's an impressive heatsink being cool and (very) quiet and cheap. It's better than the Noctua fans I bought which have been a bit of a disappointment (I need to try replacing them with the ones that came with the case, but those rubber screws are much difficult to use than the ones with the Xigimatek's fan).

The big fault (aside from the vertical-mount thing) is I can't see any way to readily remove the fan for cleaning without destroying the mounts.

[zwmalone]

I always wondered what AMD were thinking when they designed that vertical CPU mount... Kind of irrelevant for me because I have one of these.

Nice. I've got the all copper version of that, the CNPS-7700cu...  Keeps temps in the low 30s under load on a prescott P4.  Best cooler ever.

[Manyak]

I'm not sure about that, N-key rollover on keyboards and no input lag on monitors certainly have a positive effect on gaming. And by all accounts Steelseries 5H headset is pretty amazing for detecting footsteps and similar in games and rubbish for music and similar.

If gaming mice are genuine because of their unusual movement patterns then why not gaming mousepads? Regardless, gaming mousepads are still good because otherwise the high quality mousepad market would be tiny.

A case can help your gaming by quietening the sounds of a graphics card and, in theory, guaranteeing there will be enough space for any graphics card you choose. A powerful graphics card seems to be the only common component that can't be cooled with a near silent heatsink and fan (in load).

The issue isn't that specific peripherals can't improve the gaming experience, it's that so many marketed as gaming peripherals don't.

Gaming LCDs are the biggest scam because CRTs outperform them in every way - the biggest advantage being absolutely no ghosting, the second biggest being the ability to decrease the resolution without completely screwing up the image (to get more FPS without sacrificing much image quality).

And cases don't do much to quiet down a GFX card - only a new cooler or fan controller will make a significant difference. Hell, even the el-cheapo Rosewill case I linked has an area on the side panel for air to get through to the cards.

[IBI]

Gaming LCDs are the biggest scam because CRTs outperform them in every way - the biggest advantage being absolutely no ghosting, the second biggest being the ability to decrease the resolution without completely screwing up the image (to get more FPS without sacrificing much image quality).

LCDs may be inferior in input lag, ghosting and refresh rate, but you try finding a new widescreen CRT for sale.

As for the resolution thing that's just because most LCDs come with poor quality scalers, you can get big improvements if you set your monitor to 1:1 and get the graphics card to scale instead.

[Manyak]

LCDs may be inferior in input lag, ghosting and refresh rate, but you try finding a new widescreen CRT for sale.

As for the resolution thing that's just because most LCDs come with poor quality scalers, you can get big improvements if you set your monitor to 1:1 and get the graphics card to scale instead.

Does it have to be new? You can get perfectly good used 24" WS CRTs for $85 a pop. And they do 2304x1440 @ 85Hz.

I usually find a 4:3 CRT still more enjoyable to play on than even a 2ms LCD by the way. And yeah it's a big improvement when done by the GPU, no doubt there, but it will always be blurry unless it's native res is an even multiple of the res you're running at (Native res = 1920x1200, chosen res = 960x600).

[IBI]

Does it have to be new? You can get perfectly good used 24" WS CRTs for $85 a pop. And they do 2304x1440 @ 85Hz.

Hah, I'll believe that when I see it. Care to point out of a reputable UK company selling such screens for $85, or even £85?

[OverSky]

nvm

[lam47]

Hey. Would someone be able to order a blank blue for me and send it over to the ol UK.
I can paypal the moneys
Shipping should be around $30 priority from other boards I have had sent in from the states.
If anyone would be kind enough to do this there is a set of Filco purple keys in it for the kind person

[sixty]

Hey. Would someone be able to order a blank blue for me and send it over to the ol UK.
I can paypal the moneys
Shipping should be around $30 priority from other boards I have had sent in from the states.
If anyone would be kind enough to do this there is a set of Filco purple keys in it for the kind person

Why don't you get it from EliteKeyboards? Majestouch is very willing to ship them over to Europe aswell! I got my Filcos from EliteKeyboards and the shipping was around $40 or something. They arrived here in Germany within 2 days!

[lam47]

Because of the 15% + £14 import duty
So shipping is $45 + $115 for the board.
That is about £100
looking at £30 fees. Its just a bit too much if you ask me.
And that is if they convert the value first. The last 3 items I was charged on they charged 15% of the US value as if it was UK pounds.
They do this a lot and it is simply stealing.
I have had boards from members here and the shipping was $30 for priority and so long as the invoice is not in the box you can mark the value at whatever you want. If it were marked as a used keyboard then nobody can argue the value.
Over here they are currently stopping everything and charging fees on it.
If someone were kind enough to buy one for me (with my money of course) then they would be the original owner legally.
So the stated value on the customs slip would be legally again for a second hand item. What someone deems the value of a used item is entirely up to them. Its the only way I will be able to get one without being rapped by our government.

[jkkhop]

Why don't you get it from EliteKeyboards? Majestouch is very willing to ship them over to Europe aswell! I got my Filcos from EliteKeyboards and the shipping was around $40 or something. They arrived here in Germany within 2 days!

Ordered a Filco from EliteKeyboards.com today, paid via PayPal and I wasn't charged of any shipping yet, just the keyboard (??)

[ch_123]

You need to email him if you want it shipped overseas.

[jkkhop]

You need to email him if you want it shipped overseas.

It didn't say that in the website. Also, I was able to select shipping to my country when the order was made. Furthermore, I didn't get any ID for my order, only the PayPal transaction ID. I'm getting a little worried.

[ch_123]

Well, when I saw that I couldn't enter in shipping charges I decided to send an email, and he sent me an invoice for paypal with shipping charges included. I'd suggest you send one right away, he's a helpful guy and should be able to sort your problem out.

[jkkhop]

I did send an email like a hour ago.. to support aet elitekeyboardsdotcom. Should I use another email address?

[ch_123]

I used Sales@... It might be a while before he gets back to you with the differences in timezone and all that, but he's always responded to all my mails.

[OverSky]

I did send an email like a hour ago.. to support aet elitekeyboardsdotcom. Should I use another email address?

Dude an hour is not a long time, give it a full day, he's not going to steal your money...

If anyone wants to see a HD video of this keyboard check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XakIyvextO8

Also, I see in that video that it is slanted towards the user.. is this how the keyboard sits always or does it have extendable legs?

If someone could let me know that as well as the distance from the table to the front edge of the keyboard that would be super helpful thanks.

[ironcoder]

I used Sales@... It might be a while before he gets back to you with the differences in timezone and all that, but he's always responded to all my mails.

Yeah like I said in another thread on a similar topic, because of the time zone difference, he emailed you a couple of years ago and you never responded to his email.

[itlnstln]

Keep in mind, this is majestouch's side business. The guy does have other things going on in his life.  For him to provide the level of service he does is absolutely phenomenal.

[lam47]

Can anyone help me get one from him?

[itlnstln]

Can anyone help me get one from him?

PMed.

[watduzhkstand4]

My S1283

[jkkhop]

Keep in mind, this is majestouch's side business. The guy does have other things going on in his life.  For him to provide the level of service he does is absolutely phenomenal.

I'm grateful that somebody does the work so that Europeans have access to these keyboards too, but it shouldn't the customer's job to know the details of the trade, side business or not. Web shops normally have very detailed information on everything.

BUT: just noticed it's only 9AM PST right now, no wonder he's not answering..

[lam47]

I found his international rate to be a bit high.
He does get back to me quick on the email though.

I think the cooler is in the wrong thread???
Still sort out your cable management!
What a mess.

[watduzhkstand4]

Hah, that's one cable tie trick I hadn't seen before.

Whenever I put one of those humongous Skyscraper heatsinks on I'm always afraid I'm gonna hear this cracking sound as the motherboard tears apart.

hahaha yea my motherboard seems to be warping a little bit on the top, but who cares if it does the job =P I ran out of ways trying to put this thing on so I just used 8 zipties and just qip it up!

[jkkhop]

Got a reply from elitekeyboards.com. The shipping will be $48, which is a bit salty.. but it's not like I've got a choice.

Too bad I need to wait for a couple of days to get my money businesses sorted before I can pay for the shipping :/

[ch_123]

I had to pay $52, and I'm sitting on the part of Europe closest to the US! (except for Greenland, although I can't imagine there would be too many keyboard afficienados there...)

EDIT: Wait, it's probably because I ordered one of their purdy leather wrist-rests as well as the keyboard.

[talis]

Got a reply from elitekeyboards.com. The shipping will be $48, which is a bit salty.. but it's not like I've got a choice.

Thats not that bad, it costs $30 to ship most keyboard sized packages to Canada (and we're right next door).

[itlnstln]

Got a reply from elitekeyboards.com. The shipping will be $48, which is a bit salty.. but it's not like I've got a choice.
 
Too bad I need to wait for a couple of days to get my money businesses sorted before I can pay for the shipping :/

Do you have VAT in your country?  If so, you need to take that into account, too.

[talis]

Do you have VAT in your country?  If so, you need to take that into account, too.

I'm not sure how Fedex handles brokerage, but that's something to take into account as well.

UPS charges a flat $30CDN brokerage + whatever duty on top of it (unless you have your own brokerage agent).  USPS has never charged either duty or brokerage on a shipment, and I don't recall ever being charged brokerage by Purolator either.

Just be prepared that you may have to pay Shipping + Duty + Brokerage.

[ch_123]

I've had a few things shipped over by USPS, one or two got me taxed, most havent. Remains to be seen whether they will screw me over or not...

[IBI]

I had to pay $52, and I'm sitting on the part of Europe closest to the US! (except for Greenland, although I can't imagine there would be too many keyboard afficienados there...)

You've got an r instead of a c in your location field then.

[talis]

I'm not sure how Fedex handles brokerage, but that's something to take into account as well.

UPS charges a flat $30CDN brokerage + whatever duty on top of it (unless you have your own brokerage agent).  USPS has never charged either duty or brokerage on a shipment, and I don't recall ever being charged brokerage by Purolator either.

Just be prepared that you may have to pay Shipping + Duty + Brokerage.

Looks like there's no brokerage or duty when it comes FedEx (at least my Filco just showed up with no issues).

The morale of this story, please please please don't ship UPS internationally.  The worst I've ever had with them was being charged $30 in brokerage for Free samples from Texas Instruments.

[ironcoder]

I have also been reamed by UPS whereas FedEX stuff shows up quickly and with no price gouging.

[jkkhop]

Even if I've already paid for the shipping, is it possible that they charge me when the package is delivered? If so, I'll need cash tomorrow, because my Filco is at my country's customs at the moment

[ch_123]

Mine "arrived" in Ireland on Friday. It remains to be seen whether it is going to arrive at my house tomorrow, or into the loving hands of a custom's officer...

[Rajagra]

I just ran the numbers for a Das from Getdigital.de assuming a UK customer.
113 Euro or $157.  The tax thing was confusing but I assume the VAT is part of that.

Yes, mine was €112 all in (saved €1 by using PayPal)

[ssb]

I just ran the numbers for a Das from Getdigital.de assuming a UK customer.
113 Euro or $157.  The tax thing was confusing but I assume the VAT is part of that.

So does  this sound right - the Filco is a tad more expensive than the Das when you add shipping??  About $115 plus $50 shipping/VAT?? If it sounds right I'll add it to the Das vs Filco comparison in the reviews section.

I depends on the customs expenses; in Greece for example, we have to pay import tariff plus 19% VAT, that sums up $50-$70 for a Filco board. Considering shipping cost and import expenses, a European could get two - three Cherry G80's or a G80 and a Das III (from getdigital) paying the same or less. :smile:
BTW the "gift" trick doesn't fool customs officers. They have the right to subjectively evaluate product cost if the price is too low or a "gift". They also have internet access and use the web to check product prices.

[jkkhop]

Yes. They charge me for VAT+customs for a lot of boards, much more than before the economic crisis. Even labelling as "gift" doesn't always cut it anymore. Funny thing is USPS wants it cash now here, but does not carry change because of security. Depends on your country how much they let through. If there's a customs check on USPS here, it takes three (!) more weeks now. FedEx and UPS are much faster (one or two days in customs). They don't ask cash and just bill you.

What, three weeks!?

According to USPS Track & Confirm: "Your item is being processed by customs in FINLAND." I'm getting worried

[ch_123]

The proverbial eagle has landed! And the customs fell for the "gift" declaration (huge thanks for this majestouch). I'm really loving this new board, pics and reviews later!

[IBI]

I just ran the numbers for a Das from Getdigital.de assuming a UK customer.
113 Euro or $157.  The tax thing was confusing but I assume the VAT is part of that.

I think that'll all you need to pay yes, I don't think there are any additional charges except what the postal company may charge for putting it through customs. €113 is £95.

So does  this sound right - the Filco is a tad more expensive than the Das when you add shipping??  About $115 plus $50 shipping/VAT?? If it sounds right I'll add it to the Das vs Filco comparison in the reviews section.

I've not ordered one myself, but I'd assume it's 115USD * customs charges (18.5% in the UK I think) + 50USD delivery. So that's $186/€134/£113 - about 20% more.

A G80-3000 is £55-60.

[ch_123]

Because the gift trick worked, I got my tenkeyless, the wrist-rest and shipping to Ireland for about 140-150 euros. So if I were to have opted out of getting the wrist rest, I would have got it for about 110-120. By comparison, a Das from Germany to Ireland is 111 euros shipped the last time I checked.

[talis]

The proverbial eagle has landed! And the customs fell for the "gift" declaration (huge thanks for this majestouch). I'm really loving this new board, pics and reviews later!

It was a gift exchange.  You gave him a gift of money, he gave you a gift of a keyboard =P

[itlnstln]

Yes, but have you tried to whisper "i-rocks" in her ear? I mean, people came together and consciously conspired on that name. Teh evil..
The Dutch in Indonesia is no fun stuff. My grandfather died there.

The first time I read "i-Rocks," I thought it was some kind of toy you get at adult video store.

[ch_123]

I bet they don't even offer that good feeling of oneness with cup rubber...

I'm sure "Unicomp" sounds just as ridiculous to them

[lam47]

In the UK VAT is 15% + a customs fee of £14.
Marking the item as a gift makes no difference at all unless the value is under £30 (about I forget)
Even if you mark the item under £30 and as a gift customs can still open the the parcel and if they think it is worth more than the stated value (which is up to them to work out and they will mark it up if they have taken the time to open it regardless) can charge you the 15% on top.
Also every parcel I have had from the USA they have treated the USD value as if it was UKP thus making a tidy profit depending on the exchange rate. This surely is fraud.
I tried to complain about it once and got nowhere.

I now will not buy from overseas unless everything is done to stop them from making money out of items that can not be bought in our country.
I think I hate customs even more than royal mail. Despite royal mail costing me more.

Im done now.

[Rajagra]

Actually what happens in the UK is:

Customs take the actual price or judged value, whichever is higher;
Add to this the postage and insurance paid;
Charge duty on ALL the above (around 5%);
Charge VAT on ALL the above (15%);
Whoever delivers the parcel charges their own fee for collecting the duty.

Note that we pay VAT plus duty on postage and insurance. Duty and VAT are charged consecutively, so we pay VAT on the duty. Adds up nicely for them.

The good news is we shouldn't pay duty or VAT on goods from the EU.

I'm not sure the gift idea is effective. If it's over £30 you pay duty and tax anyway. Whether they make these charges seems pretty random. I'm pretty sure they just look at the parcel, and the more professionally packaged it is, the more likely they are to charge you.

Edit> And Iam47 is right, they read the $ price and treat it like £.

[lam47]

Actually what happens in the UK is:

Customs take the actual price or judged value, whichever is higher;
Add to this the postage and insurance paid;
Charge duty on ALL the above (around 5%);
Charge VAT on ALL the above (15%);
Whoever delivers the parcel charges their own fee for collecting the duty.

Note that we pay VAT plus duty on postage and insurance. Duty and VAT are charged consecutively, so we pay VAT on the duty. Adds up nicely for them.

The good news is we shouldn't pay duty or VAT on goods from the EU.

I'm not sure the gift idea is effective. If it's over £30 you pay duty and tax anyway. Whether they make these charges seems pretty random. I'm pretty sure they just look at the parcel, and the more professionally packaged it is, the more likely they are to charge you.

Edit> And Iam47 is right, they read the $ price and treat it like £.

I see.
So Parcel force have a £14 fee? I thought It had been different actually. I think I had a TNT one that was cheaper than that.
I think you have to pay VAT on any item whatever the value if it is not marked as a gift. Even if the judged value is under £30. That is my understanding from the terms and conditions any way.

You should not have to pay a penny on items shipped within the EU no.

Thanks for putting it concisely! I get carried away with my raging aggression some times.

[Rajagra]

So Parcel force have a £14 fee? I thought It had been different actually. I think I had a TNT one that was cheaper than that.

I think Parcel Force are among the cheaper ones. Whoever delivers can charge what they like, I think, it's for the "service" of taking the payment from you and forwarding it to Customs.
(Technically, I suppose they pay Customs first then collect from you.)

[lam47]

Yes thats right.
TNT were given the wrong value by Customs (Worked out from the US value)
I refused to pay the wrong amount and only paid the correct amount worked out from the UK value instead. It seemed kind of unfair to TNT but they did not complain.

[jkkhop]

After 2 days, my Filco is still at the customs.. sucks hard!

[lam47]

They can hold it for up to 30 with no explanation and then charge you for it
My GPU is still on the plane apparently. After 6 days of flying.

[jkkhop]

Funny, right after I wrote that reply, I went to check the mail box which contained a nice paper saying my Filco had arrived

[lal]

I can perfectly understand you, lammy.  But look, we're being *very* decadent already.  We buy ridiculously expensive keyboards and pay international shipping costs for which alone we could get TEN el cheapo standard boards.  We're throwing money out of the window for our hobby.  What's that 20% added by customs in this light?  Nothing.  At least that's what I'm telling myself when thinking about the additional costs while ordering keyboards from overseas.  It helps

[jkkhop]

Finally. I am writing on the Filco as we speak Totally paid $200 to get this little sucker. Well, I have spent more on mouses and mousepads, think I can get one good keyboard too.

The keyboard. I expected much, but was still surprised by the build quality, feel, responsiveness.. everything in this keyboard seems perfect. Right now I can't sum it up any better

[lam47]

So happy for you!
I have spent a lot on Mice prior to my keyboard fixation.
Ans I will keep your post in mind Lal

[ch_123]

but was still surprised by the build quality,

So was I. First thing I thought when I picked it up was "woah, this is heavy". For such a tiny little keyboard, it weighs almost as much as a Dell AT. Must be the steel plate in it.

[Viett]

The FKBN87MC/NPEK I ordered arrived today. It's a great board so far. I love the switches, even if they're a little noisy. The build quality is fantastic.

I also love the NKRO. I played an old school SNES game, Super Metroid, with it. The game requires so many simultaneous presses that it's almost impossible with thumbs/shoulders on a gamepad. It's also impossible with a regular keyboard.

I didn't buy the board for its gaming potential, but I don't think I'll be disappointed.

[arbrandes]

My 2 cents on my FKBN87MC/NPEK, which arrived today:

* Contrary to the Das, no USB headaches with this baby.  I even have it hooked up to a 3-meter USB extension cable with the PS2 adapter at the end.  No problems at all.

* The blue cherries feel exactly the same as on the Das.  That is to say, they feel great!  I can't imagine myself typing on anything else other than a clicky keyboard, nowadays.  Das III at work, Filco at home.  I'm still planning on getting a Unicomp one of these days, though.

* I was afraid I'd miss the numpad, but the tenkeyless form-factor is perfect for my home setup.  I have one of Dennis's CommandCons (which I highly recommend: http://gamechair.net), and the gigantic Microsoft Ergocrap 4000 had to sit too much to the left.  Now the keyboard is in a comfortable typing position, with space remaining for the joystick.  Here's what it used to look like (too lazy to take a new picture):



* Excellent service at elitekeyboards.com.  They shipped it out fast, and it got here (Rio de Janeiro, Brazil) in a week.

All in all, I'm a very happy customer.  Thanks everybody for the tips!

[arbrandes]

Ya gotta post a pic in Computing Setups when you get a chance to take a new photo.  That's just wild.

Will do.  Problem is, wifey's got the camera, and she's at her mom's for the weekend.  I'll try to post a few shots next week.

In any case, the setup really is pretty comfortable, specially now with the Filco taking up so much less space!

I've got that CH Pro throttle and Fighterstick too - just need someone to ship a good A-10 Warthog game.

I'm actually more into World War II propeller flightsims.  I do fire up Lock On occasionally, though.  In any case, I haven't had much time for flying, what with Real Life and all... :/

Adolfo

[itlnstln]

just need someone to ship a good A-10 Warthog game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Tank_Killer
 
The BEST A10 flight sim ever.  Also, one of the few flight sims, in general, I had the patience to play.  DOSbox it.

[o2dazone]

your name is Adolfo and you love WWII sims? There's a joke in here somewhere...I can't quite figure it out though

[itlnstln]

your name is Adolfo and you love WWII sims? There's a joke in here somewhere...I can't quite figure it out though

Strong.

[arbrandes]

your name is Adolfo and you love WWII sims? There's a joke in here somewhere...I can't quite figure it out though

Heheheh, I've been hearing this one in various incarnations since I was five...  But yes, I only fly German planes on Il-2.

[nycxandy]

Hi guys, I just joined the forum after spending hours reading it the past couple of days.

I just placed an order in for this keyboard from elitekeyboards.com and hopefully it's all that and lives up to its praise.  I definitely look forward to using it.

Currently I'm using a Microsoft Ergo 4000 keyboard and have been looking for a replacement with backlit keys.  My hunt first started with a search of the big two (Microsoft and Logitech).  The Logitech Illuminated and diNovo Edge keyboards definitely stood out to me.  They were pretty pricey so I started looking up and doing some research on keyboards to justify the high purchase prices.  This ultimately led to me discovering the wonders of a mechanical keyboard.  Upon reading the advantages of a mechanical keyboard over those that are membrane or dome-switch, I couldn't ever see myself spending such a large sum of money for a keyboard that's ultimately inferior.

Now with a mechanical keyboard set in mind, I looked into the Deck Legends as it was backlit which was what I originally wanted.  The research ultimately led me to this keyboard haven.  With the popularity and glowing praise of the Filco keyboards by you members, I just had to hop along on the ride and pick up the Filco Cherry Blue's since they are in limited supplies.

I'm definitely a keyboard noob, but someday maybe I'll join you guys as keyboard connoisseurs.

[sixty]

Hi guys, I just joined the forum after spending hours reading it the past couple of days.

I just placed an order in for this keyboard from elitekeyboards.com and hopefully it's all that and lives up to its praise.  I definitely look forward to using it.

Currently I'm using a Microsoft Ergo 4000 keyboard and have been looking for a replacement with backlit keys.  My hunt first started with a search of the big two (Microsoft and Logitech).  The Logitech Illuminated and diNovo Edge keyboards definitely stood out to me.  They were pretty pricey so I started looking up and doing some research on keyboards to justify the high purchase prices.  This ultimately led to me discovering the wonders of a mechanical keyboard.  Upon reading the advantages of a mechanical keyboard over those that are membrane or dome-switch, I couldn't ever see myself spending such a large sum of money for a keyboard that's ultimately inferior.

Now with a mechanical keyboard set in mind, I looked into the Deck Legends as it was backlit which was what I originally wanted.  The research ultimately led me to this keyboard haven.  With the popularity and glowing praise of the Filco keyboards by you members, I just had to hop along on the ride and pick up the Filco Cherry Blue's since they are in limited supplies.

I'm definitely a keyboard noob, but someday maybe I'll join you guys as keyboard connoisseurs.

Haha, this might go faster than you think.
Just about half a year ago I still had no clue about mechanical keyboards or anyhting related to them. And now here I am with about 20 keyboards in my collection and typing in obscure keywords on eBay to find mislabeled ancient boards and analyzing switch types between clients at work :|

By joining this forum will most likely end up emptying your wallets by buying more and more keyboards.

Damn you geekhack!

[wellington1869]

Just about half a year ago I still had no clue about mechanical keyboards or anyhting related to them. And now here I am with about 20 keyboards in my collection and typing in obscure keywords on eBay to find mislabeled ancient boards and analyzing switch types between clients at work

it took me about 6 months too  Doesnt take long.

[lam47]

I just got my Filco
Seems pretty nice but I do have one key that sticks down and needs wiggling to get back up. I don't want to go opening it and replacing the switch. Any ideas how to stop it?
Its the switch and not the cap that is causing the problem.

Thanks.

Laurie.

[itlnstln]

I just got my Filco
Seems pretty nice but I do have one key that sticks down and needs wiggling to get back up. I don't want to go opening it and replacing the switch. Any ideas how to stop it?
Its the switch and not the cap that is causing the problem.
 
Thanks.
 
Laurie.

Which one does it? I didn't notice it when I was testing it out. You might want to just pull the cap, press the stem down and spray it with an air duster. Why do the blue Cherrys seem to have problems sticking from time-to-time? I guess the sliding plastic piece might be causing the problem.

[lam47]

Its the =+ key. I think it is getting better now though as it is not sticking every time.

[ch_123]

Don't know what it's like in England, but we've had flooding over here... :S

[o2dazone]

Lam, you seem to often have sticky problems - hope this one goes away on it's own.  I'd accuse the London fog but your pics say it's sunny over the pond.

I've got a hypothesis as to why his keys are sticky :B

[lam47]

Its very very hot over here.
About 30c. Might not sound that hot but in the UK its a horrible kind of heat with very thin sticky air.
Don't think it has anything to do with this though.
Just a switch not working properly.

[talis]

Its the =+ key. I think it is getting better now though as it is not sticking every time.

If you can pull the key cap off, take a look at the key stem (inside the back of the key cap).  The stem actually enters the switch housing when you actuate it, and if there's a burr or any sort of molding artifact on the stem it can rub against the switch housing and possibly jam.

[lam47]

I did check the stem and it looked fine.
I have some spare blue switches but the thought of taking the whole thing apart just to solder one switch in does not appeal to me today

[fuzzybyte]

they're sold out now

is there going to be more in the future?
i wonder if they ship to Finland...

[itlnstln]

they're sold out now
 
is there going to be more in the future?
i wonder if they ship to Finland...

He will ship to Finland, but you may want to ask about warantee work should you need it. I think there was some issues overseas folks had with shipping costs, or something.

[lal]

He will ship to Finland, but you may want to ask about warantee work should you need it. I think there was some issues overseas folks had with shipping costs, or something.

It's simple.  There is NO warranty for international customers.

[lam47]

Also you will most likely have to pay any customs duty + VAT.
These were a limited run. I don't know if there will be more or not.

[fuzzybyte]

Also you will most likely have to pay any customs duty + VAT.
These were a limited run. I don't know if there will be more or not.

I know. I've ordered a brown cherry FILCO from Taiwan before and I didn't have to pay any customs or VAT that time. I think there's about 150EUR limit or something before you have to pay them...

or then I just got lucky that time.

[lam47]

That would be a great limit! Ours in the UK is £30. Anything over you have to pay.

[majestouch]

Its the =+ key. I think it is getting better now though as it is not sticking every time.

I saw this on one of the blue cherry boards, but it goes away after pressing it a few dozen times. Leads me to believe there is a small plastic burr on the key stem that causes some initial binding until it wears down a bit. I suppose it makes sense that Blues are more prone to this than other Cherry switches due to their Mexican-jumping-bean-like clicking mechanism; as I haven't seen this with a Brown or Black switch ever.

[lam47]

My = Is working fine now Just needed to bed in a bit I think.

Laurie.

[itlnstln]

My = Is working fine now Just needed to bed in a bit I think.
 
Laurie.

Equality is a good thing.

[o2dazone]

Just needed to bed in a bit I think.

Is that like Wellingtons "I just had sex with my Topre" thread?

[lam47]

Any word on the key sets for these? I will refrain from using these nice coated ones if they are on the horizon. Keep them in the box all new and special

[fuzzybyte]

got a mail from elitekeyboards saying that there's no schedule when more non-NPEK models are coming. only the blank key models are left now.

should i get the blank key model? it's not that blank keys are an issue, but it looks so... so nerdy (isn't that just what otaku translates to?). the blank keys look so cool yet incredibly stupid at the same time, it just blows my mind.

[lam47]

I don't think they look stupid at all. I guess it all depends on your perception.
Otaku is not quite nerdy. More like a fan, a hardcore fan mind.
I guess it does kind of mean nerd

[o2dazone]

UrbanDictionary doesn't give accurate responses. They are pretty good on most things, but "Otaku" is mostly reserved for anime nerds who collect piles of anime "crap", posters figurines, and body pillows with their favorite anime character printed on them (not joking). I think if you directly translated that, it wouldn't exactly be the same exact thing that 'otaku' is used for 90% of the time

edit: at least when used in the Western world

[o2dazone]

lol oh yeah him...
also I'm not talking about those pillows, Ripster

[kyamei]

UrbanDictionary doesn't give accurate responses. They are pretty good on most things, but "Otaku" is mostly reserved for anime nerds who collect piles of anime "crap", posters figurines, and body pillows with their favorite anime character printed on them (not joking). I think if you directly translated that, it wouldn't exactly be the same exact thing that 'otaku' is used for 90% of the time

edit: at least when used in the Western world

You called?

[lam47]

lol oh yeah him...
also I'm not talking about those pillows, Ripster

Show Image

Oh my Christ.

[lal]

should i get the blank key model? it's not that blank keys are an issue, but it looks so... so nerdy (isn't that just what otaku translates to?). the blank keys look so cool yet incredibly stupid at the same time, it just blows my mind.

I guess it's a matter of taste.  For me the coolness factor is long over.  It may be funny to impress visitors with a blank keyboard.  But while I do touchtype I occasionally want to type some words or key combos one-handed, which is very hard with blank keys.  And since I don't find blank keys particularly good looking (in fact I even think it looks like a prototype, an unfinished product pulled from the middle of the production line (well, that's what it is after all)) there's absolutely no question for me.  I just get the lettered variant if there's a choice, because sometimes I need the printings and don't think blank keys look good (not ugly either, though).  It's a practical decision for me.

[Rajagra]

lol oh yeah him...
also I'm not talking about those pillows, Ripster

Show Image

That pillow looks worried. With good reason.:fear:

[talis]

Looks like there's no brokerage or duty when it comes FedEx (at least my Filco just showed up with no issues).

The morale of this story, please please please don't ship UPS internationally.  The worst I've ever had with them was being charged $30 in brokerage for Free samples from Texas Instruments.

Well, I guess this was too good to be true.

Came home today to an invoice from FedEx (almost 2 weeks after I received the keyboard) for $51.50CDN in brokerage and duty.

$28.50 - Brokerage
$5.85 - Disbursment/Bond fees
$15.43 - GST
Then GST on top of the fees.

[nvarsj]

I guess it's a matter of taste.  For me the coolness factor is long over.  It may be funny to impress visitors with a blank keyboard.  But while I do touchtype I occasionally want to type some words or key combos one-handed, which is very hard with blank keys.  And since I don't find blank keys particularly good looking (in fact I even think it looks like a prototype, an unfinished product pulled from the middle of the production line (well, that's what it is after all)) there's absolutely no question for me.  I just get the lettered variant if there's a choice, because sometimes I need the printings and don't think blank keys look good (not ugly either, though).  It's a practical decision for me.

Woohoo, first post. As a counter example, I have no problem finding keys on a blank keyboard. Maybe it comes from being a long time Emacs/Vim user? So like everything, it differs from person to person.

It could also be argued that it's practical to have a blank keyboard. Forces one to become a good touch typist. Also it's great for non-qwerty users and those of us that like to remap keys.

[nvarsj]

Good point, there's no way I can easily type that with one hand. Not that I would, that's craziness! :-)

However I'll admit that blank keys are a bit more form than function. The blank key happy hacker pros look amazing.

[Stevie Wonder]

Yeah.

What he said.

[o2dazone]

matter of opinion
either you can touch type, or you cant
no shame if you cant (even if you buy an expensive keyboard)

[lal]

I think lal was emphasizing the one hand thing - I'm sure he can type two handed fine on a blank keyboard.

Right.

It is just a matter of time, and your old cognitive pattern recognition will be replaced. Not only in touch, also in vision. If I look at a blank key I know exactly which key it is.

Nice, webwit.  Chuck Norris can even press any blank key he wants and the key will emit the character he intended.

But seriously, knowing what char is on a blank key just by looking at it would be nice but require additional training that I'm not willing to do just to be cool in the eyes of my geek friends.  Maybe I can't do it because I learned touch typing the correct way from the beginning, i.e. I *never* looked at the keyboard, even while learning the first few keys.  What a pain in the a*s that was...

[Binge]

Chuck Norris has people who hit the blank key for him.  They know the consequences of failure.



Really though I can't count the times I find myself not looking at the keyboard.  Muscle memory is a wonderful thing, and I give people a ton of credit for typing on blank keyboards.  My only qualm is that I tend to drink, and that might(does) make it harder for me at times.  

[cnt]

I've done a small check and tried touch-typing with one hand, even though I haven't tried it ever before.

Loaded up Stamina and touch-typed a part of Saul Williams' Coded Language, I've had %9 error in my key-presses. Which, IMHO, is surprisingly low given the fact I can't visually picture a keyboard, all I used was muscle memory from regular 2 hands typing and from gaming, which I assume contributed quite a lot more than my usual 2 hand typing.

Nevertheless, I really can't see the benefits of a blank keyboard. if you aren't ever looking at your keyboard as it is, you won't mind whether it's blank or not. If you're a touch-typist who finds himself in need of learning the various symbols layered on various keys (^"'>~* etc), you'll probably find yourself fully capable of touch-typing them if you do indeed end up using them quite often. So yes, a blank HHK looks infinitely more awesome than a regular keyboard, but other than the coolness factor, what other possible benefits do blank keyboards have?

And no, making the computer impossible to use for anyone who isn't a touch-typist isn't a benefit, not in my opinion at least.

[lal]

Interestingly I was quite surprised and disappointed at the same time when my girlfriend used a blank keyboard for the first time.  She's not a geek and a hunt'n'peck typist, but apparently she did okay and even typed her password without real problems.  Must be the more visually oriented brain of women or somethin... At least she said it's not fun and wanted the letters back.

PS: webwit, you know that your sig is practically unreadably tiny?

[lal]

Okay, you're a strong believer in blank keys.  Understood.  I agree to everything you said.  But I don't want to be like that.  I'm good enough a typist for my needs.  I'm into keyboards for two single reasons: 1. I want the best quality gear I can get for my money (within reasonable limits), and 2. I highly enjoy typing on strongly tactile and clicke****lickclicking keyboards, it's huge fun.  These are the most important things for me.  I don't want to be a "keyboardist".  But I'd hate to accidentally hit the wrong blank key and delete files, close windows, submit unfinished forms et cetera when I've only one hand free.  It's just not worth it putting a lot of effort in learning to use a blank board one-handed for these rare occasions.  I rather take part in longish discussions about the pros and cons of blank keys in obscure keyboard geek message boards.  And, this may be the most important point, if I get lettered boards now it will still be possible for me to use them in many years when I'm old and start to forget things, like keyboard layouts for example...

[chozar]

I prefer blank keys because I usually remap a lot of them.  No fun when the key doesn't do what it says it should, and not every key is physically interchangeable.

Plus it looks nice and clean.

As to typing benefits, I wouldn't expect any.  There are better ways to learn.

[cnt]

There is an advantage, which is that knowing your board without the labels makes you a better typist. It is hard to explain.  But let me ask you this: why aren't there note labels on piano keys? Would you have better piano players if they had labels, and they would not be able to play them without them? I think their control would not be as good. Feel the board, Luke..Be the board! There is no looking.

If someone came over night into my house and engraved Binary lettering, Klingon, Japanese or Sankrist on my keyboard it would've probably taken me quite some time to notice it since it won't affect my typing whatsoever. I have gained the required muscle memory to type in the languages I can communicate in, so I can and will utilize a keyboard for its purpose with no regard whatsoever to the lettering on the keyboard. A blank keyboard maybe preferable for someone to obtain the aforementioned muscle memory, but for someone who has already achieved it, it serves nothing but an aesthetic preference.

You won't have better piano players if you mark the keys with their notes, but if you sit down an already trained pianist in front of a piano with funky misplaced notes he will have absolutely no trouble playing it just as well as a "blank" piano..

The only OTHER one I can think of is that a lot of people get PO'd that the lettering eventually rubs off or discolors on modern keys (anything that isn't dual shot or dye impregnated).  You avoid THAT problem but still end up getting shiny keys eventually.

And the Piano analogy is OK but not perfect.  You've got a linear progression of notes, black keys to "signal" octave boundaries.  

Maybe a cello would be a better analogy.

Neither are the Piano or Cello analogies work since both are musical instruments, you don't press random keys but go up and down a musical ladder. Even my 2 year old cousin knows that if the key to the left of the one she's currently punching at makes a lower sound, then the key further to the left will make an even lower sound. Not only do you get an audio feedback, but its "relativity" remains constant. While you do, usually*, get a visual feedback from your keyboard whether you're looking at it or not (since the letters magically appear on your screen, if they're not, your keyboard isn't fulfilling its function), there is absolutely no constant, relative, relation between your input and the feedback that you're receiving.

*Quite often at work I need to feed data (be it by numbers or letters) into the computer from a sheet of paper, a closed network computer's monitor, or anything else "outside" the system I'm working on. I can rely on my muscle memory to touch-type entire pages/spread sheets without ever needing to verify mi-way that I'm typing the right data into the right place. This is more of an efficiency choice than a necessity, and I do admit that I'm confident enough to state that the random interchangings of two letters have more to do with the nature of the keyboards I'm working with (robber dome FTW), than with my typing.

Anyhow, I do admit that the aesthetics of a blank keyboard serve as quite a nice "plus", be it the simple awesomeness of a blank keyboard or the lack of need to worry about keys robbing off, but I do have trouble justifying the purchase of a blank keyboard that will make it very difficult on people who don't touch-type to use my computer. I will be getting my first mechanical keyboard soon, an FKBN104M/EB (which I've queried about some 3 months ago, heh), so I just might justify to myself getting a blank keyboard as a smaller more awesome brother. But I will never fool myself into thinking that it has something to do with anything but aesthetics.

[bloodien0se]

Just chiming in to say I've been typing on nothing but my otaku since I got it last week. It's my first foray into the world of mechanical keyboards except the occasional play with model M's (which I loved, but were far too large for my setup and my current motherboard would require a usb adapter or the mod anyway).

It's fantastic, and everyone who has tried it has loved it as well.  I chose it over the others because of the support it had here and its awesome looks. Thanks for making me spend the ton of money to get it guys.

[o2dazone]

Yeah, I think it's a great keyboard.   Love dem Cherry  Blues.....

And don't worry about the money.  It'll be clicking away long after your graphics card (which you probably paid more for) is obsolete.

I'm always mentioning this when I convince people to spend money on a mechanical keyboard

[rdjack21]

Yeah, I think it's a great keyboard.   Love dem Cherry  Blues.....

And don't worry about the money.  It'll be clicking away long after your graphics card (which you probably paid more for) is obsolete.

That is one of the reasons why I will pay what I pay for keyboards. The Filco boards are worth every penny.

Oh and it's not just the video card. How many times have you replaced your whole system? When I do upgrades (about every 2 years) I replace everything but the keyboard and monitor. Monitors tend to last me longer than a single system but I do upgrade them on occasion. Keyboards on the other hand last a very long time.

[rdh]

Yeah, I think it's a great keyboard.   Love dem Cherry  Blues.....

And don't worry about the money.  It'll be clicking away long after your graphics card (which you probably paid more for) is obsolete.

I cringed a little before admitting to my girlfriend what I'd paid for the new Topre board I was showing her, but she made a good point:  People who spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a new bed always use the justification, "I expect to spend 8 hours a day on it."  For a lot of us, keyboards fit the same description.

Maybe I shouldn't have worried; she spends her working days in AutoCAD and Photoshop, and has had RSI-related wrist problems in the past.

[keyb_gr]

Keyboards on the other hand last a very long time.

Yep. My oldest ones are 20 years old and working fine. Now what other kind of 1989 vintage hardware can still claim being useful today?

[sprintf32768]

That printer really takes me back, ripster.  That was our office printer back in the 1990's and I wish we'd never given it up.  I still reflexively buy HP printers, expecting them to rock the house, and it's been a rocky cliff of disappointment.  But that 4L.  Wow.  It was dreamy.  

One button.

[Hyperion]

Having a blank keyboard forces you to memorise the keys. Most people who buy 200 dollar keyboards are probably touch typists, but most of them won't know where the = and > and / and # and - keys off by heart. They will take a few seconds to find them, but after a while you will know where every single key is off by heart. It also allows remapping of the keys without any confusion.

[fuzzybyte]

bought the blank version. Couldn't keep waiting for the normal version to stock up again so I settled with this.

Oh, well. At least, I can't "cheat" anymore.

[Sakom]

After much research here for my needs. I now have the blank version coming in the mail. I'm really looking forward to a nice keyboard after my Logitech g11 died on me.

[ch_123]

After much research here for my needs. I now have the blank version coming in the mail. I'm really looking forward to a nice keyboard after my Logitech g11 died on me.

Welcome to our little corner of the internets. =]

The Filco is a great keyboard. I've used a lot of the most common mechanical boards, and the Filco is definitely one of the best ones around. You get real great value for your money.