Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Cherry Blue's Now Available!

[OverSky]

Hey everyone!

This keyboard has just became available for purchase in the last few hours and I have bought one largely because of the things I have read on this forum. I know I've also read that a few people here have been waiting for them to go on sale so I thought I would register and make this thread to make sure everyone here who wanted one could get one as it does say 'limited quantity'.

Regular Version:
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mceb

Blank Key Version:
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mcnpek

I was actually planning on buying a SteelSeries 7G from a nearby store tomorrow but I randomly checked the page again and couldn't resist placing an order.

If anyone who has tried both blue and black switches could give me as detailed a comparison as possible I would really appreciate it.

Furthermore if anyone has access to both keyboards currently and could give me a comparison when completing the task of hitting 1122334455 in succession as fast as possible(also hitting the buttons quite hard) that would be even more helpful.

I do want to thank everyone here for all the posts they've made in this section as it's been by far the most helpful resource while narrowing down my options.. or trying to.

Not that this seems like the kind of community where I'd have to explain why I'm spending over $150 on a keyboard but if anyone is wondering feel free to check out one my videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXgBFt7HBOo

Annnnd now.. I wait for next weeks mail..

[ch_123]

I've never used either (although Im thinking of getting a blue cherry filco at some point) but I may be able to answer some of your questions -

The black switch is a linear switch, that is to say, the amount of force you have to apply to depress the key increases in a linear fashion as you press the key down. This is in contrast to most other key switches (including the blue one) where the force you need to exert increases rapidly until there is some sort of bump or click and then the force required to push the key down further is much less.

If you've never used a mechanical keyboard before, you can see what I mean when you press slowly on a key on a regular rubber dome board - you'll note that soon after you press on the switch you'll feel a lot of resistance, then it "gives way" and the amount of effort required to push it down to the bottom is much less.

I've heard tell that the black switches aren't particularly pleasant to type on as they are quite stiff, but some people seem to think they're the best for gaming. The blues are much less stiff and also make a "click" noise when the switch is activated.

[IBI]

The black ones aren't stiff, they're the opposite - too springy and not definite enough unless you really hit them. The blacks do seem to be highly sensitive to the keycap snugness though, The filco blacks are supposed to be decent while the cherry-built keyboard with blacks I've got (the K1) is as described.

[mmgoose]

there are no "slow" keyboards, only slow fingers. use alt + # instead of double tapping.

[ch_123]

The black ones aren't stiff,

I was referring to the peak force versus that of the blue cherries.

[OverSky]

there are no "slow" keyboards, only slow fingers. use alt + # instead of double tapping.

I'm currently playing WC3 not BW.. and SC2 did not have alt + # functionality on the build I played at Blizzcon and in all likelihood will not have it on release.

Are you saying everyone who is claims switching from membrane to mechanical raised their typing speed is lying?

[mmgoose]

I'm currently playing WC3 not BW.. and SC2 did not have alt + # functionality on the build I played at Blizzcon and in all likelihood will not have it on release.

Are you saying everyone who is claims switching from membrane to mechanical raised their typing speed is lying?

i'm saying if you're slow on rubbers you'll continue to be slow on springs. speed comes from how fast the neurons in your brain are firing, not the actuation of a key.

[watduzhkstand4]

bought it!

[OverSky]

i'm saying if you're slow on rubbers you'll continue to be slow on springs. speed comes from how fast the neurons in your brain are firing, not the actuation of a key.

It comes from both obviously..

[mmgoose]

well, if moon endorses it then it must be the best gaming keyboard ever. silly me. 1a2a3a...

[jkkhop]

I was going to get a Filco with Cherry Browns.. but now I don't know. What's so special about the Cherry Blues, apart from being more clicky?


quote from: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

"The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown."

[OverSky]

well, if moon endorses it then it must be the best gaming keyboard ever. silly me. 1a2a3a...

No idea what you're talking about.. honestly I wish this community could see how trash your posts are.

[watduzhkstand4]

I was going to get a Filco with Cherry Browns.. but now I don't know. What's so special about the Cherry Blues, apart from being more clicky?


quote from: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

"The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown."

Just the hype imo. There isn't may blue ones out there.

[OverSky]

I was going to get a Filco with Cherry Browns.. but now I don't know. What's so special about the Cherry Blues, apart from being more clicky?


quote from: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

"The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown."

Yeah as far as I have understood the only difference between the brown and the blue switches is the browns require less pressure to be pushed down and have reduced audible and tactile feedback.

[mmgoose]

No idea what you're talking about.. honestly I wish this community could see how trash your posts are.

oh, i'm sorry i was wrong. please, buy the 100$ keyboard that professional gamers use or the cherry switches that are obviously so much faster than the rubber domes--it has been proven to raise apm after all. you'll be making a very wise decision.

[IBI]

No idea what you're talking about.. honestly I wish this community could see how trash your posts are.

I don't think we need any insults, the opinion that the mechanical characteristics of a keyboard has little effect on the activation times for it's keys seems like a perfectly valid one.

[OverSky]

oh, i'm sorry i was wrong. please, buy the 100$ keyboard that professional gamers use or the cherry switches that are obviously so much faster than the rubber domes--it has been proven to raise apm after all. you'll be making a very wise decision.

I don't know of a single progamer who uses a mechanical keyboard..
They all use the DT35 (http://www.edepot.cn/images/sem_dt35_b.jpg) coming from TL I'm sure you already know that..

[OverSky]

I don't think we need any insults, the opinion that the mechanical characteristics of a keyboard has little effect on the activation times for it's keys seems like a perfectly valid one.

All I'm saying is that if you were from the community we are from you could see his posts for what they are..

Simply look at this guys post history and realize that he's joined a forum where people obsess about keyboards and has taken it upon himself to tell everyone the things they are buying aren't necessary and $10 membranes are the way to go...

It's not hard to see who's being confrontational and it sucks.

[watduzhkstand4]

What is there to argue about? The fact here is that everyone loves mechanical keyboards. We don't care what programmers use because they can use whatever they want, but if they're not using a mechanical keyboard, then they're missing out on some good stuff.

[jkkhop]

Nice little discussion on Blue Cherry vs Brown here.

Personally, I think the brown cherries are better for gaming.  I've YET to hear anyone praise the Blacks or even White Alps copies for gaming.

Just don't buy the Steelseries 7G and I'll be happy.

I've already read from various sources that the brown cherries have the lightest feeling, which is what I'm looking for. So thank you for clarifying this. Definitely not going to get anything with black cherries like the Steelseries 7G

Going to get a filco with brown cherry switches.

[OverSky]

What is there to argue about? The fact here is that everyone loves mechanical keyboards. We don't care what programmers use because they can use whatever they want, but if they're not using a mechanical keyboard, then they're missing out on some good stuff.

Just a small correction that we're talking about progamers not programmers, as in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roek7iHyCGc

But yes your point still stands and it's also true that if you enjoy doing something, you will be more easily motivated to do it well and do it often.

Nice little discussion on Blue Cherry vs Brown here.

Personally, I think the brown cherries are better for gaming.  I've YET to hear anyone praise the Blacks or even White Alps copies for gaming.

Just don't buy the Steelseries 7G and I'll be happy.

Thanks again ripster, I actually almost said your name in my OP because I've found a ton of your posts really helpful.

I am very confident I would prefer the blue switches over the brown switches simply because I hit the keys quite hard and fast and am certain I want a keyboard that gives me solid and noticeable resistance to encourage that speed.

I will definitely let you guys know what I think of the KB when it arrives.

[jkkhop]

Good choice, if you like Light you'll like Brown Cherries.

For gaming you could always use AutoHotkey to add multimedia hotkeys and macros.  For that LED fix just hit the CapsLock a few times.  That'll blind ya!!

What comes to hotkeys I only use volume & mute buttons. This AutoHotkey -software is integrated in all filcos or what? I'll check it out.

[mmgoose]

I don't know of a single progamer who uses a mechanical keyboard..
They all use the DT35 (http://www.edepot.cn/images/sem_dt35_b.jpg) coming from TL I'm sure you already know that..

omg what? progamers don't use mechanical keyboards and instead they use rubber domed ones that are even less than 10$?

thank you for that information. i was wondering which country has never lost in starcraft in wcg please enlighten me.

[mmgoose]

All I'm saying is that if you were from the community we are from you could see his posts for what they are..

Simply look at this guys post history and realize that he's joined a forum where people obsess about keyboards and has taken it upon himself to tell everyone the things they are buying aren't necessary and $10 membranes are the way to go...

It's not hard to see who's being confrontational and it sucks.

i'm such a bad person aren't i... i am very sorry everyone.

[o2dazone]

What a crappy thread to advertise such an awesome keyboard. Bump

[Hak Foo]

i'm saying if you're slow on rubbers you'll continue to be slow on springs. speed comes from how fast the neurons in your brain are firing, not the actuation of a key.

Well, it depends on what you're looking for to an extent.  If you're smashing keys down extra hard to get that click or tactile response, then a switch which gives it to you might allow you to not strike as deep and slow, or might reduce exhaustion for longer sustained typing.

To throw my hat into the angry debate, I am a programmer (mostly PHP nowadays) and I use an early-90s 1391401 at work.  The feel helps with accuracy and speed, and not having it fail suddenly after a few months helps with productivity

[takasta]

i'm using the tenkeyless filco cherry blues currently that i ordered from Filco TW directly, absolutely great buy in my opinion except for the fact that ppl in the same room as me find the clicks on my keyboard either really annoying or they really like it. I like the fact that there is the quality of a filco keyboard on it and that it uses blue cherry mx switches. a + on this keyboard also that it is very portable and i love taking it on the road to use, showing it off sometimes as well haha.

The reduced keypad isn't that big of a deal for me. The only way that it has really affected me so far is that when i play dota, i can't use the numpad and use items haha, i'll have to click and use the specific item when using this keyboard. Other thatn that i just love typing on this keyboard. looks great, feels great, and the keys dont' seem to be wearing off that soon either. I think its because the lettering on it is laser etched? I'm not quite sure about that. nonetheless, if you're thinking of getting a portable mechanical keyboard but don't quite want to spend tehh money from a realforce or hhkb, definately get this keyboard or if not, get the tenkeyless with brown switches. I'm thinking of getting 1 with the brown switches as well haha.

[OverSky]

i'm using the tenkeyless filco cherry blues currently that i ordered from Filco TW directly, absolutely great buy in my opinion except for the fact that ppl in the same room as me find the clicks on my keyboard either really annoying or they really like it. I like the fact that there is the quality of a filco keyboard on it and that it uses blue cherry mx switches. a + on this keyboard also that it is very portable and i love taking it on the road to use, showing it off sometimes as well haha.

The reduced keypad isn't that big of a deal for me. The only way that it has really affected me so far is that when i play dota, i can't use the numpad and use items haha, i'll have to click and use the specific item when using this keyboard. Other thatn that i just love typing on this keyboard. looks great, feels great, and the keys dont' seem to be wearing off that soon either. I think its because the lettering on it is laser etched? I'm not quite sure about that. nonetheless, if you're thinking of getting a portable mechanical keyboard but don't quite want to spend tehh money from a realforce or hhkb, definately get this keyboard or if not, get the tenkeyless with brown switches. I'm thinking of getting 1 with the brown switches as well haha.

Thanks for posting, if you want to be able to use hotkeys for inventory in WC3 you should download this: http://warkeys.sourceforge.net/

This program includes something called autowarkey which uses autohotkey, the script will only be activated when WC3 is running and I've mapped my inventory as follows..

F5 F6 = top left/top right inventory
F7 F8 = middle left/ middle right inventory
F9 = bottom left

F10 is the menu so I don't bind that but you won't ever find you have 6 usable items anyways.

You can also do stuff like bind arrow keys to messages sent to your allies about which lanes are missing. etc..

I don't play dota but I would probably go to town making teamplay easier if I did.

Oh and also you can always rebind and move around any in-game hotkey, if you do that make sure to turn on custom hotkey support in the game options.

[mmgoose]

Well, it depends on what you're looking for to an extent.  If you're smashing keys down extra hard to get that click or tactile response, then a switch which gives it to you might allow you to not strike as deep and slow, or might reduce exhaustion for longer sustained typing.

To throw my hat into the angry debate, I am a programmer (mostly PHP nowadays) and I use an early-90s 1391401 at work.  The feel helps with accuracy and speed, and not having it fail suddenly after a few months helps with productivity

i'm only saying people shouldn't feel need to pay 150$ or more for a "gaming" keyboard to play better. a chobo (n00b) will stay a chobo regardless of the keyboard he's using. only practice can remedy that.

[Hak Foo]

Agreed.

I tend to look suspiciously at any hardware targeted explicitly for gamers.  Video cards advertised for gamers are all-too-often either "Let's fool the customer by saying that a FX5200 is the ideal gaming card" or "a $450 card that's only a little better than a $175 card in 95% of games".  I didn't like the whole "I'll slap my name on EVERY lousy piece of hardware with a red LED" Fata1ity thing, and there are a huge stack of "gaming" keyboards and mice which are of mediocre quality, but very pretty.

In a way, I'd expect the gaming community to almost be a closed, word-of-mouth thing, and brands that explicitly attempt to target them will always feel "fake"

However, there are a wide array of other reasons to get a good keyboard.  Now, if only most "gaming" keyboards fit the definition.

[Manyak]

Agreed.

I tend to look suspiciously at any hardware targeted explicitly for gamers.  Video cards advertised for gamers are all-too-often either "Let's fool the customer by saying that a FX5200 is the ideal gaming card" or "a $450 card that's only a little better than a $175 card in 95% of games".  I didn't like the whole "I'll slap my name on EVERY lousy piece of hardware with a red LED" Fata1ity thing, and there are a huge stack of "gaming" keyboards and mice which are of mediocre quality, but very pretty.

In a way, I'd expect the gaming community to almost be a closed, word-of-mouth thing, and brands that explicitly attempt to target them will always feel "fake"

However, there are a wide array of other reasons to get a good keyboard.  Now, if only most "gaming" keyboards fit the definition.

There are only three products where the "gamer" term actually fits.

The first one is video cards. Yes nVidia is playing most people for fools and just renaming cards to make them sound like a newer product. Yes they seriously overcharge for the top of the line models even though a card that's half the price is still 85% as fast. But the truth of the matter is that there are only two types of video cards: Workstation cards and Gaming cards. Workstation cards are tuned for AA, a lossless z-buffer, two-sided lighting, and other stuff that is important to CAD and Rendering programs. Gaming cards concentrate on almost nothing but their texture fillrate. This is why workstation cards don't do so well in games and vice versa. And therefore, "gaming GFX card" is not just marketing.

The second one is sound cards. Simply put, if it has EAX then it's a gamer card. If it doesn't then it's not. Of course that doesn't mean that its sound quality is as good as some other non-EAX cards, but it does perform 3D sound processing in video games that others don't. I don't find it necessary in the least bit, a lot of games don't support it anymore in Vista, and you need 5.1 or 7.1 speakers to hear it's effects properly, but it's still not just marketing.

The third one is mice. Most hardcore FPS gamers use low sensitivity settings on their mouse - this means that they have to move the mouse very fast and over large distances on their mousepad to move around. 80%-90% of standard mice can't handle that kind of acceleration and speed (just try to get a cheap-o mouse and move it as fast as you can on a mousepad, see what happens to the cursor). So the term "gaming mouse" points to those mice that can (some better than others). Also, virtually all mice have some sort of auto-leveling feature built in - where if you want to draw a straight line across the screen it helps out by ignoring any minor vertical movements. Gaming mice never do that. So instead of gamers going around and testing out every mouse on the market the companies made it easier by pointing out which mice are (supposedly) guaranteed to fit these two gaming criteria.



But everything else is nothing but a scam and abuse of the market. Gaming keyboard, gaming headset, gaming speakers, gaming mousepad, gaming monitor, gaming computer case....really, wtf is a computer case going to do for your gaming?

[Rajagra]

But the truth of the matter is that there are only two types of video cards: Workstation cards and Gaming cards.

Unless, like nVidia, you use exactly the same hardware for both (GeForce & Quadro), program different firmware on the workstation version and charge twice as much.:lol:

[ch_123]

The third one is mice. Most hardcore FPS gamers use low sensitivity settings on their mouse - this means that they have to move the mouse very fast and over large distances on their mousepad to move around. 80%-90% of standard mice can't handle that kind of acceleration and speed (just try to get a cheap-o mouse and move it as fast as you can on a mousepad, see what happens to the cursor). So the term "gaming mouse" points to those mice that can (some better than others). Also, virtually all mice have some sort of auto-leveling feature built in - where if you want to draw a straight line across the screen it helps out by ignoring any minor vertical movements. Gaming mice never do that. So instead of gamers going around and testing out every mouse on the market the companies made it easier by pointing out which mice are (supposedly) guaranteed to fit these two gaming criteria.

I'd agree, but I think that a good gaming mouse generally makes a good general purpose mouse (unless you start to consider trackballs) so even that distinction is rather arbitrary.

really, wtf is a computer case going to do for your gaming?

Believe me, putting high end parts into a crappy low end case is a bad idea. That said, all the good cases out there aren't tacky "gamer" cases, so I guess your point stands. Again, another example of a good gamer part being a good part in general.

[skriefal]

Unless, like nVidia, you use exactly the same hardware for both (GeForce & Quadro), program different firmware on the workstation version and charge twice as much.:lol:

ATI does the same thing.  The FireGL cards use the same chips as the consumer-targeted Radeon HD cards, but with a different PCI ID.  The different ID forces the use of a different driver.

[Hak Foo]

Believe me, putting high end parts into a crappy low end case is a bad idea. That said, all the good cases out there aren't tacky "gamer" cases, so I guess your point stands. Again, another example of a good gamer part being a good part in general.

Agreed, but it seems like the right case is usually the "server" case model (3 inches deeper = 1000 times less cramped to work in)-- the "Gamer" case is all too often the same old mid-tower with some poorly colour-matched cold-cathodes and a front panel without taste.

But the truth of the matter is that there are only two types of video cards: Workstation cards and Gaming cards. Workstation cards are tuned for AA, a lossless z-buffer, two-sided lighting, and other stuff that is important to CAD and Rendering programs.

What gets me is the marketing though:

Among the gamer spectrum, you have the super-high-end cards, and fair enough reasonably targeted for gamers.  I wouldn't pay $600 for a card that spends 98% of its life idle.

You have the midrange cards, which few want to speak of (though that 4770 sounds appealing if they can make it fanless) although they'd be perfect for a lot of gamers.

And then you have low-end cards, which really need to be rebranded as something like "cards for people who need a dual output but don't game", because they're virtually misleading-- they might be older gaming designs, but they're unsuitable for much gaming.

And then there are the low-end workstation cards-- the $50 FireGL or Quadro model they slap into business PCs that need dual monitor support.  I always wondered what the deal was with them-- if they have the same optimizations as "real" workstation cards, or if they're just branded that way because businesses won't buy the gamer brands.

[Manyak]

I'd agree, but I think that a good gaming mouse generally makes a good general purpose mouse (unless you start to consider trackballs) so even that distinction is rather arbitrary.

Well yes you're absolutely right, but it's just that the opposite isn't always true. For some mice it is, like the Intellimouse 1.1a (old school!), but it's a lot easier to just play it safe.

Believe me, putting high end parts into a crappy low end case is a bad idea. That said, all the good cases out there aren't tacky "gamer" cases, so I guess your point stands. Again, another example of a good gamer part being a good part in general.

^^ What Hak Foo said.

But in the end, those good cases you are talking would be a lot more correctly marketed as "enthusiast" cases than gamer cases. Because by making something for a gamer you are implying that it does something for his gaming. A gaming case is as senseless as a photographer's sound card.

And there are plenty of cases that people see as low end just because of their brand name, but in reality have excellent cooling and cable management and are built like a rock. Like this Rosewill.

What gets me is the marketing though:

Among the gamer spectrum, you have the super-high-end cards, and fair enough reasonably targeted for gamers.  I wouldn't pay $600 for a card that spends 98% of its life idle.

You have the midrange cards, which few want to speak of (though that 4770 sounds appealing if they can make it fanless) although they'd be perfect for a lot of gamers.

And then you have low-end cards, which really need to be rebranded as something like "cards for people who need a dual output but don't game", because they're virtually misleading-- they might be older gaming designs, but they're unsuitable for much gaming.

And then there are the low-end workstation cards-- the $50 FireGL or Quadro model they slap into business PCs that need dual monitor support.  I always wondered what the deal was with them-- if they have the same optimizations as "real" workstation cards, or if they're just branded that way because businesses won't buy the gamer brands.

You know, that's a good question. I don't think it matter's much since whichever way those cards are tweaked there's no way they'd handle more than the bare minumum anyway. But still an interesting question.

But yeah I agree about the ultra-low end cards, those should just be labeled as plain "Desktop Graphics" or something. But I guess in a way yeah they still are gaming cards. I mean, I used to have a GeForce 6800 that ran Crysis at fully playable framerates at 1024x768. Yeah it's a pretty low resolution, but think about it for a second - if you were a gamer but all you could afford was a $25 video card, would you be gaming on a brand new 1920x1200 2ms LCD or an old 17" CRT?

See what I mean?

[Hak Foo]

Like this Rosewill.

I'm surprised.  It looks like it might be good for cable management (with no real motherboard tray, you can slip a lot of cables behind it), but it seems pretty flimsy construction wise.  That "top-to-bottom drive cage" layout is sort of common on older design cheap cases, and the punch-out slot covers are made of fail.

This is my favourite case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811128024

Or more accurately, the black 4x5.25" version (comes with a five-bay 3.5" internal drive cage instead of the lower 5.25 bays).  Roomy, cheap, reasonably tasteful design, solid.

I'm trying to decide if I want to de-case my rig and put it back in (not thrilled by the cooling of a bottom-mount PSU design)

[Manyak]

I'm surprised.  It looks like it might be good for cable management (with no real motherboard tray, you can slip a lot of cables behind it), but it seems pretty flimsy construction wise.  That "top-to-bottom drive cage" layout is sort of common on older design cheap cases, and the punch-out slot covers are made of fail.

This is my favourite case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811128024

Or more accurately, the black 4x5.25" version (comes with a five-bay 3.5" internal drive cage instead of the lower 5.25 bays).  Roomy, cheap, reasonably tasteful design, solid.

I'm trying to decide if I want to de-case my rig and put it back in (not thrilled by the cooling of a bottom-mount PSU design)

Most rosewill cases are built like crap, but that's one of the ones built out of steel. So you know it can take a beating.

As for bottom PSU cooling....well what heatsink do you have on your CPU? As long as you use one of the tower models - like a TRUE or megahalem - it should work just fine since it would direct hot air straight towards the rear fan.

And if I had to pick a favorite pre-manufactured case it would be the MountainMods Extended Ascension with this pedestal underneath. Those cases are absolutely massive - pretty much the only case out there that can fit a completely decked out computer and cooling system without any modding.

[Hak Foo]

Most rosewill cases are built like crap, but that's one of the ones built out of steel. So you know it can take a beating.

As for bottom PSU cooling....well what heatsink do you have on your CPU? As long as you use one of the tower models - like a TRUE or megahalem - it should work just fine since it would direct hot air straight towards the rear fan.

Xigmatek HDT-S1283.  The problem is that its AM2 mount-- on most AM2 boards (including the two I used)-- directs airflow up.

With the PSU at the top, that adds extra exhaust (esp. with a PSU with a bottom 120mm fan), but with a bottom PSU, it just directs into the 3" of space at the top of the case.

The Mountain Mods stuff always looks a little "let's show all the bolts" for my taste.

[watduzhkstand4]

Xigmatek HDT-S1283.  The problem is that its AM2 mount-- on most AM2 boards (including the two I used)-- directs airflow up.

With the PSU at the top, that adds extra exhaust (esp. with a PSU with a bottom 120mm fan), but with a bottom PSU, it just directs into the 3" of space at the top of the case.

The Mountain Mods stuff always looks a little "let's show all the bolts" for my taste.

Nice hs/f there for your cpu. What fan did you use for your hs/f?

[ch_123]

I always wondered what AMD were thinking when they designed that vertical CPU mount... Kind of irrelevant for me because I have one of these.

[IBI]

But everything else is nothing but a scam and abuse of the market. Gaming keyboard, gaming headset, gaming speakers, gaming mousepad, gaming monitor, gaming computer case....really, wtf is a computer case going to do for your gaming?

I'm not sure about that, N-key rollover on keyboards and no input lag on monitors certainly have a positive effect on gaming. And by all accounts Steelseries 5H headset is pretty amazing for detecting footsteps and similar in games and rubbish for music and similar.

If gaming mice are genuine because of their unusual movement patterns then why not gaming mousepads? Regardless, gaming mousepads are still good because otherwise the high quality mousepad market would be tiny.

A case can help your gaming by quietening the sounds of a graphics card and, in theory, guaranteeing there will be enough space for any graphics card you choose. A powerful graphics card seems to be the only common component that can't be cooled with a near silent heatsink and fan (in load).

The issue isn't that specific peripherals can't improve the gaming experience, it's that so many marketed as gaming peripherals don't.

Unless, like nVidia, you use exactly the same hardware for both (GeForce & Quadro), program different firmware on the workstation version and charge twice as much.:lol:

Because software isn't important when it comes to computers?

You have the midrange cards, which few want to speak of (though that 4770 sounds appealing if they can make it fanless) although they'd be perfect for a lot of gamers.

Well they made the 4850 passive (I've got one), so the cooler 4770 shouldn't be a problem.

And then you have low-end cards, which really need to be rebranded as something like "cards for people who need a dual output but don't game", because they're virtually misleading-- they might be older gaming designs, but they're unsuitable for much gaming.

At least intel have stopped refering to their integrated graphics as 'Extreme'

[ch_123]

At least intel have stopped refering to their integrated graphics as 'Extreme'

Probably because of it's upcoming entry into the real graphics market with the 'Larrabee' chipset.

[Hak Foo]

Nice hs/f there for your cpu. What fan did you use for your hs/f?

The stock one.

[Hak Foo]

I always wondered what AMD were thinking when they designed that vertical CPU mount... Kind of irrelevant for me because I have one of these.

Well, it's the motherboard designer's option to lay it out horizontal or vertical.  It didn't matter prior to the widespread popularity of tower coolers, which were dramatically different on side mounts.

Nice hs/f there for your cpu. What fan did you use for your hs/f?

The stock one.

Well they made the 4850 passive (I've got one), so the cooler 4770 shouldn't be a problem.

As best I can see, any 4770 at this point is virtually impossible to have, let alone the gimmicked kind.  They're all sold out at Newegg.

I also fear I've been spoiled by my HD3650 with a massive-overkill Accelero S2 on it (you can only get it to 50C by loading it and leaving the side of the case off to divert airflow.)

[IBI]

The stock one.

Yeah, I've got the Xigimatek 1283 as well and it's an impressive heatsink being cool and (very) quiet and cheap. It's better than the Noctua fans I bought which have been a bit of a disappointment (I need to try replacing them with the ones that came with the case, but those rubber screws are much difficult to use than the ones with the Xigimatek's fan).

[Hak Foo]

Yeah, I've got the Xigimatek 1283 as well and it's an impressive heatsink being cool and (very) quiet and cheap. It's better than the Noctua fans I bought which have been a bit of a disappointment (I need to try replacing them with the ones that came with the case, but those rubber screws are much difficult to use than the ones with the Xigimatek's fan).

The big fault (aside from the vertical-mount thing) is I can't see any way to readily remove the fan for cleaning without destroying the mounts.

[zwmalone]

I always wondered what AMD were thinking when they designed that vertical CPU mount... Kind of irrelevant for me because I have one of these.

Nice. I've got the all copper version of that, the CNPS-7700cu...  Keeps temps in the low 30s under load on a prescott P4.  Best cooler ever.

[Manyak]

I'm not sure about that, N-key rollover on keyboards and no input lag on monitors certainly have a positive effect on gaming. And by all accounts Steelseries 5H headset is pretty amazing for detecting footsteps and similar in games and rubbish for music and similar.

If gaming mice are genuine because of their unusual movement patterns then why not gaming mousepads? Regardless, gaming mousepads are still good because otherwise the high quality mousepad market would be tiny.

A case can help your gaming by quietening the sounds of a graphics card and, in theory, guaranteeing there will be enough space for any graphics card you choose. A powerful graphics card seems to be the only common component that can't be cooled with a near silent heatsink and fan (in load).

The issue isn't that specific peripherals can't improve the gaming experience, it's that so many marketed as gaming peripherals don't.

Gaming LCDs are the biggest scam because CRTs outperform them in every way - the biggest advantage being absolutely no ghosting, the second biggest being the ability to decrease the resolution without completely screwing up the image (to get more FPS without sacrificing much image quality).

And cases don't do much to quiet down a GFX card - only a new cooler or fan controller will make a significant difference. Hell, even the el-cheapo Rosewill case I linked has an area on the side panel for air to get through to the cards.

[IBI]

Gaming LCDs are the biggest scam because CRTs outperform them in every way - the biggest advantage being absolutely no ghosting, the second biggest being the ability to decrease the resolution without completely screwing up the image (to get more FPS without sacrificing much image quality).

LCDs may be inferior in input lag, ghosting and refresh rate, but you try finding a new widescreen CRT for sale.

As for the resolution thing that's just because most LCDs come with poor quality scalers, you can get big improvements if you set your monitor to 1:1 and get the graphics card to scale instead.