Author Topic: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)  (Read 28931 times)

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Offline norbauer

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I’m happy to report that the Norbaforce Mark II is now available for custom pre-order, through October 26th. It is my after-market upgrade housing for the venerable Realforce family of keyboards, manufactured in Japan by Topre. The Norbaforce Mark II expands support from the 87U family of Realforce keyboards to the R2 family of TKLs as well. The Mark I version was launched here on GeekHack back in 2017 and has been enormously well-received.



This ground-up internal redesign of the Mark II has the same retro-futuristic exterior design of the Mark I but includes a number of enhancements, not least of which is the fact that this is my first keyboard housing that is fully Made in the USA, affording me unprecedented in-person control over quality and the opportunity to work personally with some amazingly skilled (and equally obsessive) artisans.

Addition of support for the R2 family of Realforces means we can now easily obtain Topre keyboards that support Cherry MX keycaps and use them in a Norbaforce. I’ve also switched the breakout port to USB Mini for greater support of popular enthusiast cables and less confusion around USB-C cable capability.

Another upgrade, inspired by the Heavy-6 (aftermarket housing for the Leopold FC660C), is the switch to a powder-coated galvanized steel rear cover plate, which non-trivially adds to the weight of the housing: over 5½ pounds (2.5kg) with an 87U installed.



Cost, manufacturing, and margins

Moving manufacturing to the United States has resulted in an enormous jump in quality and consistency but also a modest increase in the prices I must charge. However, the least expensive finish I’m offering in this batch (K2) is actually only $5 more expensive than my last offering of in-stock powder coated Norbaforces, which is now sold out. Even for the other more expensive powder finishes, moving production entirely to the USA caused only a 13% retail price increase over parts made in China. And in my tests and pre-production runs, I’ve already empirically observed a much better than 13% increase in quality. There are other less quantifiable (and more philosophical) benefits to moving production, which incidentally have nothing to do with tariffs. My thoughts on this subject have been evolving considerably of late and I shall likely have more to say at some point, but for the moment I shall leave the specifics for the reader to surmise.

For whatever it’s worth, I’m also partly eating the higher costs I’m paying for USA production by assigning a lower margin to this batch than any other product run I’ve done before. This is because I believe in this new local manufacturing model and want to see it succeed. I also believe the resulting better quality control will help constrain the unexpected costs I’ve had to deal with in the past, which means I should be able to get away with a decreased financial safety buffer to account for scrapped parts.

Incidentally, the reason I’m offering the K2 finish at a lower price is because it can be batched with the much larger set of rear cover plates that are being coated in the same finish. It also has the lowest observed reject rate among the finishes, meaning less costs associated with rework.

To be sure, anodizing on the Mark II (the “Tactical” finish) is non-trivially more expensive than on the Mark I, and thank goodness. It means I’ve finally found a vendor whom I can actually pay more for good and reliable cosmetic results. As I’ve extensively bemoaned in almost every interview I’ve ever done, serious cosmetic defect rates on China anodizing can often be as high as 50% or more, a phenomenon with which almost any community group buy participant is familiar. Even after hiring on-the-ground consultants and inspectors and trying easily 20 different vendors in China, I’ve never gotten consistently good results, even after pro-actively trying to pay more to persuade the finishing vendors to actually care about QC. The low prices on my last run of the Norbaforce were simply a mirage, a gross miscalculation, and a disastrous money-losing proposition for me, given how many I had simply to scrap in order to keep to my cosmetic standards–meaning I had to cancel a fair number of orders around shipment time, which always makes me feel awful because I hate disappointing people, and which I’m keen to avoid on this new round. This new pricing for hard-anodized housings simply reflects what it actually costs to get the job done right. :)

Also, as an aside, my experiments have revealed that the Tactical finish takes nicely to hand-waxing, if you’re into that.

Veracity Steel: maintainable, and heavy AF
I learned quite a few lessons from the Heavy-6 project, but one of them was the astonishing community demand for extremely heavy housings with unusual materials and finishes, even if those desires come at some considerable manufacturing/materials cost. Also, as a result of the hand-waxed finish on the black Monolith and how well it was received, I’ve learned that there is an appreciation among my clients for materials and finishes that are maintainable over time.

As a result of these two observations, I’ve increasingly become interested in what I call “Veracity” finishes, which is to say materials that don’t disguise themselves with a thin finishing layer on top of their true underlying nature. This is with the understanding that, while the finish may be more susceptible to wear from everyday use, it can be also be more easily maintained and polished back to its original look–unlike, say, a Type II anodized part that scratches very easily and then is nearly impossible to restore back to its original appearance.

One sees this philosophy commonly in the luxury watch and leather goods world, where “living materials” are rightly valued and restoration and maintenance are part of the expected lifetime of an object that can be regarded as heirloom-worthy. It is generally understood, for example, that stainless watch cases worn regularly will need to be polished to remove minor everyday scratches and abrasion. This inherent maintainability is prized among watch collectors, and it’s something I’m embracing with the Veracity Steel option on the Mark II, which offers naked stainless steel, painstakingly hand-polished to a mirror finish.

Also, incidentally: with the keyboard installed, it weighs over 9 pounds. I hereby disavow any responsibility for your desk collapsing under its weight.



Be sure to add a breakout PCB to your order

These are being sold separately, so you can get the PCB that works with the type of keyboard you’ll want to use with your Norbaforce.

Bundle offer
Later today, I’ll be sending out a private offer to my newsletter list to get a discounted Keybrief or Keyring (both of which are based around the Norbaforce) with the order a Mark II, so if interested make sure you’re on the list. :)

International shipping
I am now offering the ability to pay for calculated duties and taxes in advance with your order rather than having to sort it out with your customs authorities on delivery. This is a trial of a new service, and we’ll see how it goes. But it allows me to maintain direct relationships with clients rather than dealing with a complex network of proxies. This should makes things much easier when it comes to sorting out delivery issues or any other problems that may arise on arrival.

Any questions?

Finish details, specs, pricing, timelines, etc., are all in the group buy page on my site, but I’ll post some teaser photos below. Any questions or concerns, please post them here or reach out to me directly at shop@norbauer.com. I am, as always, at your disposal.

Many thanks, as always, to everyone in the community for your enthusiastic support of my work. This one has been a long time coming and represents a totally new way of making stuff for me. I hope you’ll consider supporting it. :)












Offline Lyle88

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 08 October 2019, 02:59:12 »
That stainless version looks fantastic and the idea of having a finish that can be restored is something that I really love. If I was in the position to make a purchase I would be all over it.
Good luck with the GB, not that you will need it!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Offline mydens

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 08 October 2019, 07:00:33 »
I dont like any of the colors, how about a raw aluminum version?

Offline Lyle88

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 08 October 2019, 07:10:22 »
I dont like any of the colors, how about a raw aluminum version?
I'm not sure why you would want raw aluminium when there's raw steel on offer?

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Offline mydens

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 08 October 2019, 07:13:13 »
I dont like any of the colors, how about a raw aluminum version?
I'm not sure why you would want raw aluminium when there's raw steel on offer?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Cause i have i a gf that loves shoes and top shelf booze.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 08 October 2019, 10:59:56 »
I dont like any of the colors, how about a raw aluminum version?

I considered it, but polished aluminum scratches quite easily. I have a sample unit in polished aluminum and am working on some longer-term tests to see how it fares in real everyday use, but didn't want to commit to it until I was pretty confident it would give good results, and I'm not just quite there yet. Perhaps on the next project, depending on how my tests turn out.

Offline jaminb

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 09 October 2019, 14:05:26 »
All of my cables are USB-C :(

Offline Lyle88

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 09 October 2019, 15:20:33 »
I dont like any of the colors, how about a raw aluminum version?
I'm not sure why you would want raw aluminium when there's raw steel on offer?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Cause i have i a gf that loves shoes and top shelf booze.
I just realised the price on the site

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Offline vanillawafers

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 10 October 2019, 14:35:57 »
Is there a chance we could get a USB-C breakout board as well?


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Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 10 October 2019, 14:45:39 »
Is there a chance we could get a USB-C breakout board as well?

The short answer is, unfortunately no. The long answer is below at 52:35


Offline Jhambone9160

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 10 October 2019, 18:52:19 »
Hi Norbauer! Could you ever see yourself making a similar metal case but for the full size R2?

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 10 October 2019, 18:56:16 »
Hi Norbauer! Could you ever see yourself making a similar metal case but for the full size R2?

Someday/maybe! :) 100% cases are rough due to the billet and machining cost, but it's something I often think (and am often asked) about.

Offline amirhosein

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 10 October 2019, 19:15:57 »
Is there a chance we could get a USB-C breakout board as well?

The short answer is, unfortunately no. The long answer is below at 52:35


Hi Ryan, I was actually watching the steam live, do you think the huge sound difference is because of the boards themselves or the keycaps? I was considering buying an RGB board, but it just sounds so bad compared to the normal boards imo.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 10 October 2019, 19:20:20 »
I think it's a combination of the two, frankly. ABS caps don't sound as nice as PBT, and the slider geometry is different. I think lubing the sliders with a relatively high-viscosity lube like Krytox 205 would go a really long way to making it sound better, but I've finally come around to the view that a Topre switch with MX sliders is never going to sound as nice as one with Topre sliders. I think it might just come down to the fundamental stem geometry. The slider housings are also different on the RGB to make room for the LEDs, which is why the Novatouch is probably a bit better in terms of sound. This of course depends on what your preferences are, but my personal preference is always "whatever sounds closest to stock Topre." ;)

Offline amirhosein

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 10 October 2019, 19:22:40 »
I think it's a combination of the two, frankly. ABS caps don't sound as nice as PBT, and the slider geometry is different. I think lubing the sliders with a relatively high-viscosity lube like Krytox 205 would go a really long way to making it sound better, but I've finally come around to the view that a Topre switch with MX sliders is never going to sound as nice as one with Topre sliders. I think it might just come down to the fundamental stem geometry. The slider housings are also different on the RGB to make room for the LEDs, which is why the Novatouch is probably a bit better in terms of sound. This of course depends on what your preferences are, but my personal preference is always "whatever sounds closest to stock Topre." ;)

Thanks! yeah it makes sense :D Seems like I'm not changing keycaps anytime soon :D Too bad the Hipro keycap bottom row doesn't match the R2 either. Not sure if I'm gonna buy and 87u just for that either :P

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 10 October 2019, 19:28:21 »
I think it's a combination of the two, frankly. ABS caps don't sound as nice as PBT, and the slider geometry is different. I think lubing the sliders with a relatively high-viscosity lube like Krytox 205 would go a really long way to making it sound better, but I've finally come around to the view that a Topre switch with MX sliders is never going to sound as nice as one with Topre sliders. I think it might just come down to the fundamental stem geometry. The slider housings are also different on the RGB to make room for the LEDs, which is why the Novatouch is probably a bit better in terms of sound. This of course depends on what your preferences are, but my personal preference is always "whatever sounds closest to stock Topre." ;)

Thanks! yeah it makes sense :D Seems like I'm not changing keycaps anytime soon :D Too bad the Hipro keycap bottom row doesn't match the R2 either. Not sure if I'm gonna buy and 87u just for that either :P

Haha. Yeah, compatibility (or, really, enthusiast priorities in general) clearly isn't high on the list of concerns for Topre. We all have to suffer a little bit for our love of the thock.

Offline iEatPuppers

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 11 October 2019, 00:44:20 »
I'd love to get another one if I could find a realforce 86u. Hard to do so nowadays.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 11 October 2019, 13:14:05 »
I'd love to get another one if I could find a realforce 86u. Hard to do so nowadays.

I was fortunate to get one with a bit of diligence and an eBay saved search. Just takes a bit of patience. :)

Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 16 October 2019, 09:28:16 »
I have never taken apart a Realforce so I am not sure how feasible this would be- since you mentioned manufacturing an HHKB plate, would a plastic plate for the Realforce be something you considered?

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 16 October 2019, 12:00:10 »
I have never taken apart a Realforce so I am not sure how feasible this would be- since you mentioned manufacturing an HHKB plate, would a plastic plate for the Realforce be something you considered?

I don't think a plastic plate for a full TKL board would work very well. The greater length of the plate would lead to too much flex, I think, such that when you pressed down on the spacebar, you'd see a really visible sag. It might be something worth at least experimenting with at some point when and if I get the HHKB process down though. :)

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 26 October 2019, 23:41:36 »
Down to the last couple of hours for the group buy now.

Thanks to everyone who has made this group buy a great success so far! You guys are all amazing. Can’t wait to get production started on Monday!

Offline foxlive

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 27 October 2019, 03:57:58 »
Down to the last couple of hours for the group buy now.

Thanks to everyone who has made this group buy a great success so far! You guys are all amazing. Can’t wait to get production started on Monday!

And we all can’t wait to get our hands on! I finally went to a VHS finish as it is my first topre board and veracity steel was quite expensive (and I also really love the vhs finish).

I’m super excited to try this :D !

All the best for the production, I hope everything goes smoooooth!
               

Offline phinix

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 02 December 2019, 09:39:04 »
What is an angle of Realforce R2, anyone knows? With feet up and down.
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Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 02 December 2019, 12:32:54 »
All the best for the production, I hope everything goes smoooooth!

Thanks! I visited the shop last week and all is going very well. First machining operation is now complete.


Offline falzm

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 17 February 2020, 06:57:47 »
Hi @norbauer, are we still on track for a shipping of the GB units around the end of February as announced on the shop website page?

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 17 February 2020, 14:15:40 »
That is still the plan. The machining was done long ago and I’m just waiting on the finishing, but that is supposed to be done in the next week or so before being shipped to me. I wouldn’t be surprised if we run slightly into March, but still generally on track. :)

Offline amirhosein

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Re: [GB] the Norbaforce Mark II (aftermarket housing for Realforce keyboards)
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 12:47:59 »
Also, as an aside, my experiments have revealed that the Tactical finish takes nicely to hand-waxing, if you’re into that.

This seems interesting, could you please elaborate or refer a resource for this? Would this give a shiny look to the keyboard? Sorry, I'm not familiar with this much. I tried to search on Google but everything I found seems to be irrelevant to this.

P.S. I just found your own video on it :D, I need to order some M&Ms :
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 February 2020, 12:55:39 by amirhosein »