Author Topic: Why did my build suck so much?  (Read 2391 times)

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Offline SoleSoul

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  • Posts: 3
Why did my build suck so much?
« on: Wed, 22 February 2023, 03:40:23 »
The build:
White Flesports MK870 + Gateron Yellow Pro switch + these Cherry profile keycaps
The keyboard turned out to be beautiful, reliable and smooth, but so stiff I couldn't stand it so I sold it.

I have more than a few keyboards, out of which I like Niz best, but I do like non stiff mechanical keyboards like EP84 with Gateron Pro Yellow.

What's the biggest difference between the Epomaker board and mine that caused one to feel like heaven and the other so bad?
Can you please point me to a keyboard you think I'll like, or a modification to the build that'll result in a keyboard closer to my taste?
I think I can sum it to a light switch with light tactility, quite quiet and soft at bottom out.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 February 2023, 03:43:03 by SoleSoul »

Offline Sup

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Re: Why did my build suck so much?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 22 February 2023, 10:44:54 »
Well i can't really tell how they are constructed i did look it up. But, it seems to be friction fit and filled to the brim with foam. In keyboards you need to look at how its mounted and what plate material.

From what i can tell is that the Flesports is like tray mount so there are hard points where the pcb rests on what gives it some hard spots. Also that its filled to the brim with foam what also will make it flex less. For the epoch maker it looks like its friction fit so its consistent all around since the pcb just sits in the case and its also filled to the brim with foam.

Makes me sad to see that keyboard manufacturers just fill there keyboards to the brim and call it a day. They will all sound the same and boring and feeling wise similar.
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Why did my build suck so much?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 22 February 2023, 15:34:33 »
Any time you use something other than a hard mount for the plate, you introduce variance, not just one keyboard to another but even across an individual keyboard.

Take a switch that feels great in a wet noodle and it will only feel the same in another equally wet noodle.
Find a switch that feels good in a stiff board and you can swap that switch into any other relatively stiff keyboard and it will feel (pretty much) the same.

Stiff is easy to replicate, a wet noodle is not.
If you want a specif feel and translate it from one board to another, you're going to have to get onto something stiff and find what works for you. This goes double, or even triple if you plan on ever switching to an aluminum case where stiff is pretty much the norm and people try to replicate a soft feel out of a hard material (which is difficult).


This doesn't mean you have to give up a softer feel, you just need to build it into your switch choice, NOT the chassis. To give an example, here's a few of mine..
The Filco - THICK beefy aluminum case, oversize stainless plate, sandwich style mount, Jailhouse Cherry MX blues with soft springs, super crisp typing feel but only slightly more harsh than an old model M or my GMMK with Box Jades. It's darn near perfection really.

My Chinese custom - solid aluminum, aluminum plate, sandwich style with J-spaced Gateron Blues, this is the least harsh board I have ever used. It's on par with my plate-less 75% Vortex Race with plastic case/MX Blues.  This board is best described as mushy. I haven't really used it because of it, a shame since it's really nice.

Then we have the Nk65 - a thick aluminum case but with a hanging top mount aluminum plate and dampened Zeal Zilent V2 switches equipped with super ultra light springs. In theory it should be one of, if not the the softest of my aluminum keyboards and yet this is by far the most harsh keyboard I've ever used in my life despite all of the things that should help. The tactility on the already extremely tactile switch was amplified 400% with my spring choice and when the switch crests the activation point it causes a crash to bottom and the small amount of dampening by the switch is just not enough to counter it. The typing experience is best described as typing on a cloud, hitting a brick wall (tactile bump) then falling off a cliff onto concrete. It's ROUGH to say the least.

On most switches swapping to softer springs softens the tactile bump along with the ramp, so on MX browns you have a 35gram(g) ramp then a 5g bump (40g actuation), then it eventually ramps up to 60+grams at bottom out (spring rating). On these, due to the housing design, the tactile bump remained at the normal 45g or so but lowered the ramp up to it and following. So instead of a 35g ramp these now have a 15-20g ramp up to a 45g bump, meaning the bump went from 5-7 grams to 20-25g. It's less a tactile bump and more of a tactile wall. Fun, but not for everyone.

Switches will make or break the best or worst keyboard and adding case design/flex to the mix only makes it more difficult to weed out the problem.
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