Author Topic: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?  (Read 5973 times)

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Offline phinix

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Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« on: Thu, 23 February 2023, 16:41:57 »
I'm about to buy some linear switches for my build and was wondering - is it worth getting Ultraglide Cherry MX Black?
I had some Hyperglide blacks in the past and they were a bit rough, even when lubed them, wasn't really happy.
I don't want to lube switches anymore, so want to buy and use.
I was looking at Ultraglides pressed 1.2 million times. I dont want to lube them - do you think 1.2M would be enough to make them nice and smooth?
Or should I just go for stock Lavenders (I craved them few months ago), or something pre-lubed like those JWK Matcha Switches (ugly as hell)?
« Last Edit: Thu, 23 February 2023, 16:45:12 by phinix »
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Offline herfalerf

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 24 February 2023, 17:46:59 »
If you want the smoothest of the smooth and you don't want to lube at all i would recommend gat x.  the cherry's will be great if you put in the work of lubing, filming, and spring swapping, but you said you don't want to deal with all that.  i personally don't like jwks and have found too many inconsistencies in their switches to recommend them to anyone.

Offline Leopard223

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 24 February 2023, 19:08:49 »
If you want the smoothest of the smooth and you don't want to lube at all i would recommend gat x.  the cherry's will be great if you put in the work of lubing, filming, and spring swapping, but you said you don't want to deal with all that.  i personally don't like jwks and have found too many inconsistencies in their switches to recommend them to anyone.
Are the springs of Cherry really that bad that people always recommend to change them? using grease on them isn't enough to make them quiet?

Offline Faall

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 26 February 2023, 12:45:38 »
If you want the smoothest of the smooth and you don't want to lube at all i would recommend gat x.  the cherry's will be great if you put in the work of lubing, filming, and spring swapping, but you said you don't want to deal with all that.  i personally don't like jwks and have found too many inconsistencies in their switches to recommend them to anyone.
Are the springs of Cherry really that bad that people always recommend to change them? using grease on them isn't enough to make them quiet?

Apparently so. Using non-broken-in HGs right now, and the spring is really a piece of art. Like OP, broken-in mx blacks are a prospective switch for me too. Of course, swapped to 57g 18mm TX springs. That, or I may frankenswitch up some BCPs.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 26 February 2023, 20:51:52 »
1. Cherry springs aren't great. Never seen any that were competitive with aftermarket springs.

They are rattly or pingy, and their weights are more inconsistent than customs. Always end up having to replace Cherry springs.


2. Cherry will always be scratchy. Even the new Ergo Clears aren't really an improvement over previous Clears in that regard, although the factory-lubing is better.

If you don't like Cherry scratchiness [many do like the 'character' it provides], then you probably won't be happy with Cherry linears.


3. Gaterons are smooth. If you want a no-fuss switch, you could get a higher-end Gateron linear like Ink Blacks or even Oil Kings. I have a Gateron switch tester here [good for research] the Inks aren't bad. Even the CAP Milky Yellow V2 is alright.

A budget option is JWICK Black and derivatives from AliExpress. The two Yellows they offer are surprisingly decent.

But your best bet is probably the highest-end pre-lubed Gateron linears, which might be Oil Kings.


Offline phinix

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 27 February 2023, 02:22:05 »
1. Cherry springs aren't great. Never seen any that were competitive with aftermarket springs.

They are rattly or pingy, and their weights are more inconsistent than customs. Always end up having to replace Cherry springs.


2. Cherry will always be scratchy. Even the new Ergo Clears aren't really an improvement over previous Clears in that regard, although the factory-lubing is better.

If you don't like Cherry scratchiness [many do like the 'character' it provides], then you probably won't be happy with Cherry linears.


3. Gaterons are smooth. If you want a no-fuss switch, you could get a higher-end Gateron linear like Ink Blacks or even Oil Kings. I have a Gateron switch tester here [good for research] the Inks aren't bad. Even the CAP Milky Yellow V2 is alright.

A budget option is JWICK Black and derivatives from AliExpress. The two Yellows they offer are surprisingly decent.

But your best bet is probably the highest-end pre-lubed Gateron linears, which might be Oil Kings.

Thanks. So what are my options? BUdget wise it doesn't matter, I paid for Zealios I can pay for expensive linears.
Gat black inks, Oil kings, what else? For a long time I wanted Lavenders.
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 27 February 2023, 12:08:35 »

Thanks. So what are my options? BUdget wise it doesn't matter, I paid for Zealios I can pay for expensive linears.
Gat black inks, Oil kings, what else? For a long time I wanted Lavenders.

It's interesting that you ask this.

Because of a request on this forum, I have been investigating linears. Affordably.

I recently purchased a Gateron switch tester, which you can now get for $24 CAD:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003952485726.html

The JWICK tester is around $10 CAD:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004359484614.html


I also bought some no-name Matcha Green linears, some OUTEMU silents, and WS linears.

From the Gateron sample pack:

The Gateron CAP Milky Yellow is surprisingly-good for a budget line. There's a little bit of tick and scratch, which good PBT keycaps would largely muffle, and it's nothing Cherry-level bad. They are a snappier / punchier Gateron Yellow that clacks more and has factory lube.

Ergonomically, they should be okay if you don't bottom-out too much [they have a 'snap' to them thanks to powerful spring], and benefit from a polycarb plate. [Don't get the CAP Golden Yellow, they don't sound as good.]

Then, there's the Gateron Pro Yellow, which is just a mildly-improved Gateron Yellow. They use a gentler spring, but it could use more factory lube than it does.

After testing the Ink line, I'm not sure they are factory-lubricated as much as a custom builder would want. So that leaves the Oil Kings, which have a high reputation, but I haven't personally tested.


From the JWICK Sample pack:

The JWICK Yellow and Ginger Milk are surprisingly decent. I find them to be smooth, and they don't sound scratchy. But they also don't sound like they're heavily-lubed with 205g0, which I assume is what a lot of people want.

The Ginger Milk is clackier, the Yellow still has a bit of air-whooshing sound or lube movement as the lube could be heavier than it is. JWICK Black feels and sounds a bit dry.


From personal experience, I've used builds with Gateron CAP Brown V2. They are basically CAP Yellows with a tactile stem. The Milky are okay stock. However, with hand-lubing [even if it's just the leaf-area and spring], they become quite nice. They don't need films. So minimally-lubed [3204] CAP Milky Yellows are an option.

I'm not a linear guy, so there's not much I can tell you beyond that. In your position, I would consider buying pre-lubed switches of the type you see at Loobed Switches, for example. Or I would utilize a lubing service. They could buy the Tealios or whatever. They are overpriced, but generally-agreed as being top-tier. Then they L + F. You can do all that without touching a Tealio until you receive them.

[You could also do the same thing on the cheap, ordering KTT Strawberry or whatever and a cheap lubing service. KTT are very smooth and often tight, so mediocre-lubed KTTs should be fine.]

Be sure you know what springs you want put in your linears! Gateron springs kind of suck, for example.

One other option is silenced linears. I actually kind of like them. The OUTEMU Silent Peach is very affordable, and they are kinda pre-lubed. I have been considering just putting them stock into a foamed NCR-80. That would give you a silent linear build that's just fine. No switch-modding.

So the cautious thing might be to pick up sample packs like I linked to above, plus maybe 10 oil kings if possible. And a tiny OUTEMU sample pack, which I can direct you to. That will help you make an informed decision. You could probably resell the Gateron sample pack afterwards, although I have to keep referencing mine.

[Also, if you like JWK linears, take a look a some SP Star samples. I really like their linears [Polaris Gray, Nana, etc...]. They are even usable in stock form, although you get better sound with L + F of course.]

Offline phinix

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 27 February 2023, 17:17:41 »
Wow, thanks for your huge response :)
I see you studied it properly! :)

Reason I asked for stock switches is that after years of modding them, going through so many keyboards and switches, I'm tired of doing it. After around 15 years I thought there are some stock switches that finally do not need so much attention and preparation.

I had and was an enthusiast of Tealios for years, then decided I need something heavier and always liked mx blacks.
Like you are saying, Oil Kings are one of the top choices I can see. Also, I've seen so many sound tests of those SP Star Polaris Grays, maybe this is something to look into as well.

Also being a tactile lover, what do you think of Zeal's Clickiez? I wasn't a fan of mx blues or other clicky switches, but have seen some reviews and similarity to alps sounds good to me.
I love heavy switches, but those 75g may be waaaaay to heavy...
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 27 February 2023, 17:24:24 »
Also being a tactile lover, what do you think of Zeal's Clickiez? I wasn't a fan of mx blues or other clicky switches, but have seen some reviews and similarity to alps sounds good to me.
I love heavy switches, but those 75g may be waaaaay to heavy...

Clickiez are fantastic if you don't mind their extreme tactility. I think I like them even more than Matias and box thick clicks. What other clickies have you tried that you didn't like? Nothing that's just a Cherry clone is that great.

Offline phinix

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 27 February 2023, 17:42:23 »
Also being a tactile lover, what do you think of Zeal's Clickiez? I wasn't a fan of mx blues or other clicky switches, but have seen some reviews and similarity to alps sounds good to me.
I love heavy switches, but those 75g may be waaaaay to heavy...

Clickiez are fantastic if you don't mind their extreme tactility. I think I like them even more than Matias and box thick clicks. What other clickies have you tried that you didn't like? Nothing that's just a Cherry clone is that great.

I only tried mx blues, nothing else.
I'm a topre true lover, but like Zealios v2 78g tactility, so I'm not a stranger to heavy ones.
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 27 February 2023, 21:50:52 »
Also being a tactile lover, what do you think of Zeal's Clickiez? I wasn't a fan of mx blues or other clicky switches, but have seen some reviews and similarity to alps sounds good to me.
I love heavy switches, but those 75g may be waaaaay to heavy...

Clickiez are fantastic if you don't mind their extreme tactility. I think I like them even more than Matias and box thick clicks. What other clickies have you tried that you didn't like? Nothing that's just a Cherry clone is that great.

I only tried mx blues, nothing else.
I'm a topre true lover, but like Zealios v2 78g tactility, so I'm not a stranger to heavy ones.

So you've never tried any good clicky switches yet. Spread your legs a little. lol

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 27 February 2023, 22:01:51 »
Wow, thanks for your huge response :)
I see you studied it properly! :)

Reason I asked for stock switches is that after years of modding them, going through so many keyboards and switches, I'm tired of doing it. After around 15 years I thought there are some stock switches that finally do not need so much attention and preparation.

I had and was an enthusiast of Tealios for years, then decided I need something heavier and always liked mx blacks.
Like you are saying, Oil Kings are one of the top choices I can see. Also, I've seen so many sound tests of those SP Star Polaris Grays, maybe this is something to look into as well.

Also being a tactile lover, what do you think of Zeal's Clickiez? I wasn't a fan of mx blues or other clicky switches, but have seen some reviews and similarity to alps sounds good to me.
I love heavy switches, but those 75g may be waaaaay to heavy...

Yes, I'm behind on linears but have been catching-up.

The truth is, the stock-switch situation is really improving, especially if they don't need to 'sound lubed.'

The Gateron CAP Milky Yellow, and probably the JWICK Ginger Yellow can be used as-is, and those are budget switches. Same for those SP Star. But even with those nice Gaterons, they don't sound fully 'custom,' if you know what I meant. Just 'acceptable.'

So you can actually buy 'acceptable' switches now, at a budget price no less. Unthinkable just a few years ago. As this guy says, you can get switches for .35 cents that would have been unobtainable:



Anyway, it really depends how high your standards are. For 'endgame' people, they need to lube and film Tealios. But if you just want something 'acceptable,' you can throw JWICK T1s into a build, for example. In stock form, budget T1s are better than most pre-2018 Ergo Clears.

So I get what you say about wanting stock switches. The Gaterons and SP Star I mentioned above are fine stock, especially the former. Gateron X is said to be even better than CAP Milky Yellow. AKKO Cream Yellow is also said to be good. But for the best stuff, the 'endgame' stuff, you probably have to go to Oil Kings. The other switches are reasonably-lubed, but not over-lubed as people desire.

If I wanted hassle-free quality linears, I would pay somebody to L + F Tealios, while replacing the springs with bag-lubed 65 G 14mm TX. Incidentally, the 65 G SP Star linears are great, or just put those TX springs in SP Star Gray. It and 63.5 G Spirit are great springs for linears, if MX Red is too light for you.

Try to get ahold of minimal quantities of Gaterons, SP Star, some JWICK, and KTT before making any decisions. I was considering running WS Yellows stock - they are light but poppy, and don't make weird noises. They just don't sound 'lubed,' that's all. Their "Reds" are fine, but I don't like 67 G. Try to get a WS sample pack, they are being marketed cheap. Bought one for $10 USD in Canada.

As for Clickiez, unfortunately I don't have experience with them. Too expensive to try out. They aren't really ALPS, they were copied from a hybrid design, but they sure aren't Cherry. They are clicky switches for people who don't think BOX Jades are enough. It's my understanding it's a very sharp clicky. And the tactile variant is insane. Just gratiuitious.

I am waiting for them to release a factory tactile Clickiez that's dialed down to Orange ALPS. Or even Salmon or lesser. [They are playing with Brown ALPS equivalents right now.]

If you are looking for high-tactility fun, you might want to consider a sample pack of Chosfox & JWICK Voyagers. They are like crunchier Holy Bobas. That would be my go-to choice for tactile fun.



BTW I have to emphasize KTT switches. They are cheaper than JWK, but honestly probably smoother and more consistent. And don't need filming.

I put together a board of KTT Mallo for someone. They are MX Brown clones, but without the scratch. Amazing, almost a linear, but the bump is there. They just needed spring bag-lubing which is quick, which you can do while lubing the leaf area. [You can lube more for better-sound, but I'm saying you can get rid of extraneous noises with a minimum-job.]


Offline Maledicted

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 28 February 2023, 23:58:19 »
As for Clickiez, unfortunately I don't have experience with them. Too expensive to try out. They aren't really ALPS, they were copied from a hybrid design, but they sure aren't Cherry. They are clicky switches for people who don't think BOX Jades are enough. It's my understanding it's a very sharp clicky. And the tactile variant is insane. Just gratiuitious.

They're more like Alps than simplified Alps and Matias in terms of feel and sound. Jades were only enough because there was nothing else closer to Alps for the MX market. Clickiez are still not ideal for most, but it is good to hear they're at least playing around with more Alps variants. Kind of surprised that they're going straight for browns without just making Clickiez that actually appeal to a broader audience first ... like they should have from the start.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 05 March 2023, 17:08:34 »
UPDATE:

If you are just looking for some linears that work out-of-box without user intervention, the new V2 Silk linears may be the ticket:

https://www.theremingoat.com/blog/nk-silk-mictlan-switch-review

They are comparable to Oil Kings.

Offline phinix

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 05 March 2023, 17:32:53 »
UPDATE:

If you are just looking for some linears that work out-of-box without user intervention, the new V2 Silk linears may be the ticket:

https://www.theremingoat.com/blog/nk-silk-mictlan-switch-review

They are comparable to Oil Kings.

I don't like NovelKeys (crap business wise), so won't be buying any of their products, but thanks for advice.

I think for linears I'm now leaning towards Gateron Box Black Inks.
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 March 2023, 17:34:28 by phinix »
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 05 March 2023, 19:40:25 »
Interesting. Gaterons certainly make it easy, since there are large storefronts to purchase them from.

I don't have experience with Gateron BOX switches, but my tester has what looks like a couple of BOX linears. The Gateron [BOX?] Pink is pretty impressive, as I find it to be soft and easy typing. And there's nothing really wrong with the BOX [Ink?] Black. A tiny bit of scratch, but nothing serious.* There's a bit of metallic squeak on the Pink, but not much.

I'd actually use the BOX Pink in stock form! But people who like heavier weights would prefer the Black. The Black is a little lower-pitched.

*It's not really scratch, just plastic contact sound. They're not overlubed.

Offline phinix

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 06 March 2023, 04:30:30 »
Interesting. Gaterons certainly make it easy, since there are large storefronts to purchase them from.

I don't have experience with Gateron BOX switches, but my tester has what looks like a couple of BOX linears. The Gateron [BOX?] Pink is pretty impressive, as I find it to be soft and easy typing. And there's nothing really wrong with the BOX [Ink?] Black. A tiny bit of scratch, but nothing serious.* There's a bit of metallic squeak on the Pink, but not much.

I'd actually use the BOX Pink in stock form! But people who like heavier weights would prefer the Black. The Black is a little lower-pitched.

*It's not really scratch, just plastic contact sound. They're not overlubed.

Yep, seen lots of videos on YT, they sound deep. They may need lubing, will see, would really prefer some stock, but may actually leave them as are and use that way.
Not buying just now, I have to sell some of my stuff, too many keyboards, plus invested lately in some camera lens :)

From my experience, I had Tealios for many years and those stock were smooth for me, I lubed them after seeing so many people suggesting lubing, but difference was so small.
I lubed my Zealios v2 78g, these improved after lubing, but that tactiles.

Last linear I got were mx blacks Hyperglides, which supposed to be nice, but even after lubing those felt scratchy, couldn't stand those.
Funny thing is, I have 10 years old CoolerMaster QuickFire Rapid with mx blacks and those after years of use, stock, no lubing, become so smooth that I really love the feeling.
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 06 March 2023, 09:07:54 »
Yes. My Filco MX Browns were atrocious at first. But after many actuations, they became almost creamy. They have a similar texture to the BOX Cream linears. [Which is why I keep suggesting that they make a BOX Cream Brown.]

So they do smooth out, eventually [in long, Cherry timescales]. All I really needed to do to the Majestouch was wear them in and lube the stabilizers. Which is what people here suggested! [They needed DCS keycaps, also].

I just can't imagine using any stock Cherry switch today. But I use Cherry parts to improve some other switches. The new Ergo Clears are decent, if you replace the springs. And they benefit from lube.

Tealios are already very smooth, and I find that putting thick lube in smooth linears doesn't necessarily improve them. I think that stock Tangerines, H1s [batch 1], KTT Strawberry operate just fine without lube, and some might be ruined by thick lube. SP Star linears are also fine, but probably improve more with lube due to mild scratchiness.

Offline DashanYYY

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Re: Ultraglide Cherry MX Black or JWK Matcha Switches or Lavenders?
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 16 March 2023, 17:19:53 »
If buy-and-use is your goal, I recommend you to look at Lumia Matcha V3 switches. They are hand-lubed in the factory. Also, I know some of the Akko switches are also hand-lubed in the factory. It sounds to me like you are a person who likes smooth linear switches. I don't think ultraglides with 1.2m will make you feel satisfied. They are better than stock, but...they are not buttery smooth.