Author Topic: Melvang's F revival services [Last Modification 9JAN2016]  (Read 58723 times)

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Offline Melvang

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Melvang's F revival services [Last Modification 9JAN2016]
« on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 15:43:11 »
I would like to offer the community IBM F revival services.  The extent to my services will be cleaning, mat replacement, floss mod, Soarer converter for XT's, and xwhatsit controllers for AT's and others with a ribbon connector.  I can also do ANSI conversion on AT's however I am going to pass on the short space bar mod until I do one for myself. 

The customer will be responsible for all purchasing all materials prior to shipping to me with the exception of replacement mat and material for floss mod.  I have converted an XT using a Teensy and Soarers converter firmware and am currently typing on my AT that has had a controller swap to xwhatsit.  Upon either xwhatsit or Soarer conversion, I will flash with what ever layout you would like, though keep in mind I have not worked with function layer on Soarer yet.

Prices

Mat replacement - $20

Floss Mod - $20

Xwhatsit install - $30

Soarer conversion - $10

ANSI Mod - $15 on its own Free with any other dissassembly based service

Clean and dry of caps - $15

One thing is I will not be doing BigFoot style boards unless you have swapped in standard XT innards.

I will be updating this thread as new stuff develops.

Here is a video showing the before and after on the floss mod for my AT.  This keyboard does not have a case so the ping is very evident off camera.


I now have plates in hand for F 122, Unsaver, XT, AT, and Xtant.  Mats for these no longer require shipping plates to me provided that is all that is needed.

I can also add keys, I currently have a plate heading to a customer I did this mod for, and I will post pics in the near future of what the plate looked like with caps at my end.  I do have a jig for this for accurate locating.  It currently works for the extra 4 keys around the arrows on Unsaver and F122 plates.  I have not tested it on others.  It also works for the win key locations, though pcb compatibility is hit and miss.
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 January 2016, 17:25:37 by Melvang »
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 18:44:10 »
Damn, those are good prices for the amount of work that goes into them.  I started to do a floss mod on a keyboard, but stopped after I realized how time consuming it was.  I'm tempted to send you my F AT and say use it as a guinea pig on the ANSI conversion with short spacebar.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 19:10:35 »
I would like you to do an ANSI/xwhatsit/floss/mat for my PC AT.

Please put me on the list, and we can PM about payment, etc.

Thanks!

Offline Melvang

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 19:14:35 »
I would like you to do an ANSI/xwhatsit/floss/mat for my PC AT.

Please put me on the list, and we can PM about payment, etc.

Thanks!

On the ANSI I am hoping you don't need the short space bar?  I am sure I can figure it out, I just haven't done one yet.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 19:18:35 »
I would like you to do an ANSI/xwhatsit/floss/mat for my PC AT.

Please put me on the list, and we can PM about payment, etc.

Thanks!

On the ANSI I am hoping you don't need the short space bar?  I am sure I can figure it out, I just haven't done one yet.


Nah, that doesn't really matter to me. :)

Offline Melvang

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 19:26:33 »
Sounds good.  Let me get a couple videos shot of my current AT before and after my floss mod, I want to get a video comparing them back to back in the same setting, same desk, same everything.  This is one thing I haven't found yet.  Plus I am using something that isn't exactly floss but seems to be working alright on my XT so far but that is quick just a couple keys here and there.  What I am using is strands from the core of paracord.  The 550 pound stuff has 7 strands in the core.  So figureing the number of yards x 7 cores, it is essentially pennies per yard, but it is fairly labor intensive.  That is something I need to add to the OP. 

Also, JD if you could source your own xwhatsit that would be great as I don't really have the disposable income to front that right now. The other stuff I already have materials and tools on hand.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 19:45:15 »
Sounds good.  Let me get a couple videos shot of my current AT before and after my floss mod, I want to get a video comparing them back to back in the same setting, same desk, same everything.  This is one thing I haven't found yet.  Plus I am using something that isn't exactly floss but seems to be working alright on my XT so far but that is quick just a couple keys here and there.  What I am using is strands from the core of paracord.  The 550 pound stuff has 7 strands in the core.  So figureing the number of yards x 7 cores, it is essentially pennies per yard, but it is fairly labor intensive.  That is something I need to add to the OP. 

Also, JD if you could source your own xwhatsit that would be great as I don't really have the disposable income to front that right now. The other stuff I already have materials and tools on hand.

Hmm, okay. I've never thought of that, but are the core strands of 550 thick enough to dampen the sound? I've made plenty of paracord bracelets, and that stuff is fairly thin. :)

I have an xwhatsit controller here, I just need to desolder it. It's in a F-122 that fohat.digs modded for me, but there is something wrong with that keyboard. He could never get it to work with a Teensy, so I swapped the controller board for the xwhatsit. But it still doesn't work. :(

Offline Melvang

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 19:48:27 »
Sounds good.  Let me get a couple videos shot of my current AT before and after my floss mod, I want to get a video comparing them back to back in the same setting, same desk, same everything.  This is one thing I haven't found yet.  Plus I am using something that isn't exactly floss but seems to be working alright on my XT so far but that is quick just a couple keys here and there.  What I am using is strands from the core of paracord.  The 550 pound stuff has 7 strands in the core.  So figureing the number of yards x 7 cores, it is essentially pennies per yard, but it is fairly labor intensive.  That is something I need to add to the OP. 

Also, JD if you could source your own xwhatsit that would be great as I don't really have the disposable income to front that right now. The other stuff I already have materials and tools on hand.

Hmm, okay. I've never thought of that, but are the core strands of 550 thick enough to dampen the sound? I've made plenty of paracord bracelets, and that stuff is fairly thin. :)

I have an xwhatsit controller here, I just need to desolder it. It's in a F-122 that fohat.digs modded for me, but there is something wrong with that keyboard. He could never get it to work with a Teensy, so I swapped the controller board for the xwhatsit. But it still doesn't work. :(

So far it seems to be dampening alright.  I do want to get a before and after sound clip at least on this AT.  With it running naked mounted right in my keyboard tray the ping is amplified so I think this will really make it apparent on changes in the ping.  I just need to tweak one issue relating to the overall feel of the board though.
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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 14:34:19 »
I started to do a floss mod on a keyboard, but stopped after I realized how time consuming it was. 

The essential trick to the floss mod is to use a *very* sharp pair of scissors and make a *very* clean cut on the floss.

If you do not fluff or flare the end, it will go in easily. If you fluff it up, forget it. Licking your finger and trying to flatten it back does not work.

I hold the long piece of floss and insert it into the spring, then snip it as it comes out the top. This means that the pieces are almost too long, and, in fact, sometimes they do get too long. If there is much more than a millimeter protruding, it will not work properly.
 
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 00:25:51 »
What an excellent service and some competitive prices to be sure. PM sent!

There's really no reason for me to possibly mess it up when melvang's prices here are so good.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 00:35:29 »
What an excellent service and some competitive prices to be sure. PM sent!

There's really no reason for me to possibly mess it up when melvang's prices here are so good.

And replied to you dorkvader, and JD.
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 08:56:06 »
Do you plan to offer refurbishment and repainting of the steel plates if they are rusted or the customer would like a refurbishment of those?
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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 13:01:19 »
Do you plan to offer refurbishment and repainting of the steel plates if they are rusted or the customer would like a refurbishment of those?

I should probably add that to the list.  It would mostly be time based as materials are about nil.  Also, I feel I would just be offering flat black/primer from a rattle can.  Plastidip is also an option but that stuff likes to peel when you have the plate supported during reassembly and I am paranoid to spray anything like that at an assembled board.

For that I would also probably be charging a bit extra to save/go around plastic stab clips as I can't see removal and reinsertion going well.  The one way I could see that working is to just sand them flat from one side and then epoxy them back in.  But I wouldn't want to experiment with that on someone elses board especially if they want to keep the stock caps and not go to M style with insert type stabilizers.
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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:40:14 »
I can't see removal and reinsertion going well. 

There are 2 small factors there working in your favor.

First, after a couple of coats of spray paint, the interior diameter of the holes is slightly reduced, making for a marginally tighter fit than the original.

Second, if you re-insert the tabs during the hours/days after the paint is "dry" but perhaps not fully "cured" then it will help cement them in place.
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
Seeing the name eventually led her to rooms full of documents that made clear how “operatives” had been trained “to staff the far-flung and purportedly separate, yet intricately connected, institutions funded by the Koch brothers and their now large network of fellow wealthy donors.” - Nancy McLean 2017

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 17:23:25 »
I can't see removal and reinsertion going well. 

There are 2 small factors there working in your favor.

First, after a couple of coats of spray paint, the interior diameter of the holes is slightly reduced, making for a marginally tighter fit than the original.

Second, if you re-insert the tabs during the hours/days after the paint is "dry" but perhaps not fully "cured" then it will help cement them in place.

Yeah, I will probably give it a shot when I go to repaint my AT.  I don't use them anyway so its no worry if I screw them up.
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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 22:41:27 »
Services are still available.
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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 03:58:39 »

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 07:28:29 »
Do you plan to offer refurbishment and repainting of the steel plates if they are rusted or the customer would like a refurbishment of those?

I should probably add that to the list.  It would mostly be time based as materials are about nil.  Also, I feel I would just be offering flat black/primer from a rattle can.  Plastidip is also an option but that stuff likes to peel when you have the plate supported during reassembly and I am paranoid to spray anything like that at an assembled board.

For that I would also probably be charging a bit extra to save/go around plastic stab clips as I can't see removal and reinsertion going well.  The one way I could see that working is to just sand them flat from one side and then epoxy them backn.  But I wouldn't want to experiment with that on someone elses board especially if they want to keep the stock caps and not go to M style with insert type stabilizers.

I've had mixed experiences with sanding and painting the plates, probably because I am an awful painter.  First of all, I usually just sand to remove the rust spots and don't worry about removing all the paint.

I have applied just paint, paint/primer combo in one can, primer then paint, or simply a clear coat to Model F plates.  The layers of paint definitely reduce the diameter of the barrel holes, so be conscious of how many layers you are applying (obviously).  If the paint is too thick, you might have trouble smoothly fitting the barrels back in and "strip" the paint from the holes with too many insertions/removals of the barrels.  Different Model F's seem to have different tolerances for the layers of paint.  The XT can't tolerate too many layers, but I have gotten away with a few layers on the F122.

I have been happiest with my repainting jobs of using primer then paint, with some light sanding between paint layers.  Perhaps I might try some paint/primer combo with light sanding between layers.  Without the base layer of straight primer, the paint seems more "fragile," which I'm sure is common knowledge to anyone with experience using spray paint.  I do go light on the primer now, with just one, thorough layer before applying paint, in the interest of not reducing the diameter of the barrel holes too much.
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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 08:43:34 »
added to the artisan services wiki pages here.
http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Keyboard_Modification_Services

Thanks domo.

Do you plan to offer refurbishment and repainting of the steel plates if they are rusted or the customer would like a refurbishment of those?

I should probably add that to the list.  It would mostly be time based as materials are about nil.  Also, I feel I would just be offering flat black/primer from a rattle can.  Plastidip is also an option but that stuff likes to peel when you have the plate supported during reassembly and I am paranoid to spray anything like that at an assembled board.

For that I would also probably be charging a bit extra to save/go around plastic stab clips as I can't see removal and reinsertion going well.  The one way I could see that working is to just sand them flat from one side and then epoxy them backn.  But I wouldn't want to experiment with that on someone elses board especially if they want to keep the stock caps and not go to M style with insert type stabilizers.

I've had mixed experiences with sanding and painting the plates, probably because I am an awful painter.  First of all, I usually just sand to remove the rust spots and don't worry about removing all the paint.

I have applied just paint, paint/primer combo in one can, primer then paint, or simply a clear coat to Model F plates.  The layers of paint definitely reduce the diameter of the barrel holes, so be conscious of how many layers you are applying (obviously).  If the paint is too thick, you might have trouble smoothly fitting the barrels back in and "strip" the paint from the holes with too many insertions/removals of the barrels.  Different Model F's seem to have different tolerances for the layers of paint.  The XT can't tolerate too many layers, but I have gotten away with a few layers on the F122.

I have been happiest with my repainting jobs of using primer then paint, with some light sanding between paint layers.  Perhaps I might try some paint/primer combo with light sanding between layers.  Without the base layer of straight primer, the paint seems more "fragile," which I'm sure is common knowledge to anyone with experience using spray paint.  I do go light on the primer now, with just one, thorough layer before applying paint, in the interest of not reducing the diameter of the barrel holes too much.

I have now done two plates, one from an AT, and one from an XT in rattle can plastidip.  I didn't have one issue with either one regarding fitting the barrels back in the plate.  The only issue is when you go to start man handling the plates.  The rattle can plastidip does start to peel fairly easily.  Granted that is a feature of that stuff.  If you don't like it, just peel it off and try something else.  But if you give it a couple days to cure before putting it back together, it is significantly more durable.  Plus when combined with a floss mod, it provides a very nice typing experience.
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 09:40:18 »
Lack of patience and not allowing the paint to fully cure probably was my biggest problem with my previous painting jobs, now that I think about it.   I have not used Plastidip, but it seems interesting.

I'm about to sand and paint some more plates, so we'll see how those turn out.

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 18:19:31 »
I found that using Naval Jelly to remove the rust on the plates can be much easier and more precise than sanding. It'll also strip off the paint IBM used on their AT plates (I can't confirm for other models, but it'll probably also work for them), which may be a good thing. It won't damage the plastic stabilizer clips.


Just wanted to help you save some time!
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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 19:46:33 »
I found that using Naval Jelly to remove the rust on the plates can be much easier and more precise than sanding. It'll also strip off the paint IBM used on their AT plates (I can't confirm for other models, but it'll probably also work for them), which may be a good thing. It won't damage the plastic stabilizer clips.


Just wanted to help you save some time!

On the recommendation of phosphorglow, I played around with some citric acid mixed with warm water to remove rust on my XT plate.  The XT does not have stabilizer clips, by the way.  After a few hours of soaking, the rust and even some of the paint came off quite easily, and even easier with a scour pad.  After the soaking, scouring, and drying, I came in with some steel wool to finish the almost bare steel, and then applied spray paint.

I only wish that I attempted this method for my previous Model F refurbs, rather than messing around with multiple grits of sand paper.  Although the sand paper is more fun.
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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 08 May 2015, 14:44:04 »
FWIW i used white vinegar on my F 107 key to remove rust.  It removed all the rust, and paint.  Only thing I can say is you would want a container big enough to submerge the whole thing.  I didn't and soaked some towels in it and put them on.  It left some weird marks on it.  No damage though.

More on topic.  I assume with services we would cover shipping both ways?  Shipping is always the sucks.  Feels like you are burning money :D.


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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 13:45:17 »
Melvang: where are you located, for shipping, etc.? (Or did I miss this earlier in the thread?)

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Re: Melvang's F revival services
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 17:09:45 »
FWIW i used white vinegar on my F 107 key to remove rust.  It removed all the rust, and paint.  Only thing I can say is you would want a container big enough to submerge the whole thing.  I didn't and soaked some towels in it and put them on.  It left some weird marks on it.  No damage though.

More on topic.  I assume with services we would cover shipping both ways?  Shipping is always the sucks.  Feels like you are burning money :D.

Yes shipping would need to be covered by the customer both ways, sorry.

Melvang: where are you located, for shipping, etc.? (Or did I miss this earlier in the thread?)

I am located in north east Iowa, zip code 50702.
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Re: Melvang's F revival services [Last Modification 9JAN2016]
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 12 January 2016, 22:38:19 »
I am pleased to report that Melvang successfully drilled my unsaver plate and added the extra flippers and barrels I needed with no extra charge.

The holes are well done, I really don't think I could have done a better job myself.  Definitely recommend him for any F work needed done.  ;D

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Re: Melvang's F revival services [Last Modification 9JAN2016]
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 12 January 2016, 22:43:43 »
I am pleased to report that Melvang successfully drilled my unsaver plate and added the extra flippers and barrels I needed with no extra charge.

The holes are well done, I really don't think I could have done a better job myself.  Definitely recommend him for any F work needed done.  ;D

Thanks, can't wait to see the finished piece.  Hope the alignment was up to par.  For the record, I did check the other Unsaver pcb I have on hand, and it does have pads for all 6 locations.  I didn't check the back side of the PCB though.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich
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Offline Venatorious

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Re: Melvang's F revival services [Last Modification 9JAN2016]
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 13 January 2016, 23:58:51 »
Yeah its the back side that is the problem. I am fairly confident reconnecting the the pad on the left win key location will make it work but it is missing the pad on the back.

Not sure what to do here...  :rolleyes:

Offline Melvang

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Re: Melvang's F revival services [Last Modification 9JAN2016]
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 14 January 2016, 00:10:37 »
Yeah its the back side that is the problem. I am fairly confident reconnecting the the pad on the left win key location will make it work but it is missing the pad on the back.

Not sure what to do here...  :rolleyes:

Time to have someone design a new PCB to include these?
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich
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Offline Venatorious

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Re: Melvang's F revival services [Last Modification 9JAN2016]
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:27:50 »
Time to have someone design a new PCB to include these?

Possibly. I would definitely not want it to cost more than 100$ and work as well as the original in terms of capacitance.