IBM Model M SSK $0.99 + shipping opening bid

[nubbinator]

Because I'm a sick bastard and know it would have been posted here at some point

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-1395217-1391472-Model-M-Space-Saver-Clicky-Keyboard-1990-Excellent-Cond-/191246940905?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c8734bae9

[sacratoy]

$22 shipping :x

[ebacho]

$22 shipping :x

About normal.  If they used USPS flat rate it'd be around $18.

[nubbinator]

$22 shipping :x

That's actually cheap shipping (it shows $26 for me).  USPS Large Priority Flat Rate is ~$18 online, more if you pay in store, plus additional insurance if it goes for more than $100, plus packaging materials.  It's a pretty decent shipping rate and cheaper than what many people post.  It's not uncommon to see $30-50 shipping.

[iloveucla]

I dont really understand why people bidding 6 days before it ends.

[Coff_man]

Welp, that jumped up fast. 

[nubbinator]

I dont really understand why people bidding 6 days before it ends.

Because people don't behave like perfectly rational beings.  It'd be nice if they did since they would be more predictable and people could get better prices in auctions...but people are idiots.

I'm just amazed it jumped to $42 in the less than 30 minutes that I posted it.

[sacratoy]

I'll just wait and pick up a unicomp...

[iloveucla]

I'll just wait and pick up a unicomp...

btw, I feel like ibm model m has better type feeling then unicomp's...
 )

[nubbinator]

I'll just wait and pick up a unicomp...

btw, I feel like ibm model m has better type feeling then unicomp's...
 )

If you want a better typing feeling, don't even bother with a Model M, jump straight to a Model F.

[iloveucla]

I'll just wait and pick up a unicomp...

btw, I feel like ibm model m has better type feeling then unicomp's...
 )

If you want a better typing feeling, don't even bother with a Model M, jump straight to a Model F.

Yeah, looking for one... but my budget is tight now....
 

edit: btw which model F should I look for?

[geniekid]

I bid exactly what I'm willing to pay for it.  I don't see how this is unreasonable or idiotic behavior.

[nubbinator]

I bid exactly what I'm willing to pay for it.  I don't see how this is unreasonable or idiotic behavior.

From a rational choice/game theoretic model, it's entirely irrational bidding behavior.  The most rational form of bidding on eBay is not to bid until close to the end of the auction, bid low, then place the maximum price you're willing to bid in the auto-bid choice they offer after you place your bid.

The problem with eBay and other online auctions is that irrational/naive bidding behavior abounds, especially for more "rare" items, resulting in higher prices than market equilibrium.

[iloveucla]

I bid exactly what I'm willing to pay for it.  I don't see how this is unreasonable or idiotic behavior.

From a rational choice/game theoretic model, it's entirely irrational bidding behavior.  The most rational form of bidding on eBay is not to bid until close to the end of the auction, bid low, then place the maximum price you're willing to bid in the auto-bid choice they offer after you place your bid.

Give him/her a break... It's Sunday night...

[rowdy]

$47.94 shipping to Australia - that's actually pretty good, for a heavy keyboard too!

A shame the keyboard itself is likely to go for a silly amount of money.

[geniekid]

I bid exactly what I'm willing to pay for it.  I don't see how this is unreasonable or idiotic behavior.

From a rational choice/game theoretic model, it's entirely irrational bidding behavior.  The most rational form of bidding on eBay is not to bid until close to the end of the auction, bid low, then place the maximum price you're willing to bid in the auto-bid choice they offer after you place your bid.

The problem with eBay and other online auctions is that irrational/naive bidding behavior abounds, especially for more "rare" items, resulting in higher prices than market equilibrium.

I think you may be confusing "good methodology for price discovery" with "rational behavior for an individual using eBay", but maybe I'm wrong.  It sounds like you're arguing auctions for "rare" items should be done via sealed auction, which I am in agreement with.  But that is not what the seller chose to use.  In lieu of that, the only reason I would see for bidding late is for a snipe, which I am not against in principle, but I think that opportunity was ruined when you posted this on geekhack

[iloveucla]

let me ask you a very sample question. If you have a max price you are willing to pay for.
Why would you place that bid 6 days advance rather then last few minutes before it ends?
What is the benefit by doing that?

[nubbinator]

I think you may be confusing "good methodology for price discovery" with "rational behavior for an individual using eBay", but maybe I'm wrong.  It sounds like you're arguing auctions for "rare" items should be done via sealed auction, which I am in agreement with.  But that is not what the seller chose to use.  In lieu of that, the only reason I would see for bidding late is for a snipe, which I am not against in principle, but I think that opportunity was ruined when you posted this on geekhack

Nope, I'm talking optimal strategies for obtaining something at a good price in an online eBay style auction. The most rational strategy for winning is not to bid until the end and set up a sniping strategy.  Bidding your max initially is not a rational strategy for winning the auction unless your max is higher than anyone else is willing to bid, something that is less likely with a less common good that does't come up as often. It's an irrational strategy, just like small incremental bidding.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Hey, it's not already over $100 yet.

[rowdy]

Hey, it's not already over $100 yet.

It is early days yet.

[geniekid]

I think you may be confusing "good methodology for price discovery" with "rational behavior for an individual using eBay", but maybe I'm wrong.  It sounds like you're arguing auctions for "rare" items should be done via sealed auction, which I am in agreement with.  But that is not what the seller chose to use.  In lieu of that, the only reason I would see for bidding late is for a snipe, which I am not against in principle, but I think that opportunity was ruined when you posted this on geekhack

Nope, I'm talking optimal strategies for obtaining something at a good price in an online eBay style auction. The most rational strategy for winning is not to bid until the end and set up a sniping strategy.  Bidding your max initially is not a rational strategy for winning the auction unless your max is higher than anyone else is willing to bid, something that is less likely with a less common good that does't come up as often. It's an irrational strategy, just like small incremental bidding.

It's an irrational strategy if you are determined to win the item and are looking to minimize the final cost.  It is perfectly reasonable if 1) you have a fixed ceiling that is likely below market value and 2) the auction is visible and in demand (making sniping below market value impossible).  I can tell you 1 is true since I placed the bid.  I firmly believe 2 is true based on other SSK auctions I've followed recently.

[False_Dmitry_II]

I think you may be confusing "good methodology for price discovery" with "rational behavior for an individual using eBay", but maybe I'm wrong.  It sounds like you're arguing auctions for "rare" items should be done via sealed auction, which I am in agreement with.  But that is not what the seller chose to use.  In lieu of that, the only reason I would see for bidding late is for a snipe, which I am not against in principle, but I think that opportunity was ruined when you posted this on geekhack

Nope, I'm talking optimal strategies for obtaining something at a good price in an online eBay style auction. The most rational strategy for winning is not to bid until the end and set up a sniping strategy.  Bidding your max initially is not a rational strategy for winning the auction unless your max is higher than anyone else is willing to bid, something that is less likely with a less common good that does't come up as often. It's an irrational strategy, just like small incremental bidding.

It's an irrational strategy if you are determined to win the item and are looking to minimize the final cost.  It is perfectly reasonable if 1) you have a fixed ceiling that is likely below market value and 2) the auction is visible and in demand (making sniping below market value impossible).  I can tell you 1 is true since I placed the bid.  I firmly believe 2 is true based on other SSK auctions I've followed recently.

That sounds alot like you're just wasting everyone elses time.

[geniekid]

I think I just saved a bunch of people time by removing the sniping opportunity up front instead of making them wait 6 days and then putting in an offer that would easily get outbid by the people who actually want to win this at market value.

[geniekid]

I also want to say I do not claim that I am making the perfect, ideal decision here.  I only posted because I feel like we should not discourage people from making honest, upfront bids by calling them idiots.  They're not trying to drive up the price - they just want an item and are willing to pay a certain amount for it.

[rowdy]

Every time I look at it the price has gone up.

Did this have a BiN price?

[iloveucla]

Every time I look at it the price has gone up.

Did this have a BiN price?

I don't think so 

[rowdy]

Every time I look at it the price has gone up.

Did this have a BiN price?

I don't think so 

Probably not, I just saw the thread title "SSK $0.99".

LOL what did they expect?

[nubbinator]

I also want to say I do not claim that I am making the perfect, ideal decision here.  I only posted because I feel like we should not discourage people from making honest, upfront bids by calling them idiots.  They're not trying to drive up the price - they just want an item and are willing to pay a certain amount for it.

Saying that you're behaving in irrational bidding behavior is not calling you an idiot.  It's a factual statement that most people do not act as perfectly rational actors.  If they did, they wouldn't bid until closer to the end of the auction.

Every time I look at it the price has gone up.

Did this have a BiN price?

Nope, $0.99 + shipping starting bid only.

[iloveucla]

let it go~~~~ let it go~~~~
 

[rlvampire]

Clickykeyboards has a decent rotation of IBM Model M's, I feel the price is reasonable given the track record of the keyboard and how long they have been doing it. Does anyone else have an opinion of them? I dont have the time or energy right now to try to deal with a DOA from some random ebay seller.

[skcheng]

I'll just wait and pick up a unicomp...

btw, I feel like ibm model m has better type feeling then unicomp's...
 )

If you want a better typing feeling, don't even bother with a Model M, jump straight to a Model F.

Yeah, looking for one... but my budget is tight now....
 

edit: btw which model F should I look for?

If you don't want to mess with the controller, then you want the AT-F.    They pop up for VERY reasonable at times.    But they have issues.   Small backspace.   No arrow keys.  Large.   HEAVY spacebar unless modified etc.....

But yes, they are very fun to type on.   The SSK is little "easier" to deal with. 

[skcheng]

I bid exactly what I'm willing to pay for it.  I don't see how this is unreasonable or idiotic behavior.

Most people do exactly what you do.   Put in their best and highest bid and hope it holds up.   But what if you're outbid tomorrow?   Do you let it go?   Do you place a slightly "higher" bid and hope that holds up?    That's how the pricing on ebay gets crazy.   But it's okay ...... even items with tons of bids will sell at market price unless you have a few people who get into a bidding war.   

You see total newbies on ebay bidding in $1 increments, throwing in bids until they're highest bidder just to get outbid a few seconds later.

It's the psychology behind auctions and ebay.   

Ideally you should place your best and highest bid on an sniping program since then your bid can be placed 5 seconds or 2 seconds  (whatever you're comfortable with) right before the auction ends.   That eliminates people "outbidding" you last second.   And most snipe sites will alert you if your snipe bid wont be high enough.  Keeps you from staying up as well if an auction happens to end say 3am.  But these days everyone is fairly experienced and I'm willing to bet that several people are already sniping that board.  Just depends on how many people truly want that particular board ...... which looks to be in nice condition but not particularly special. 

I would be more interested in finding out if that SSK has one piece or two piece caps since I MUCH prefer the one piece units. 

And then there's the psychology behind selling.   Ebay is a very expensive place to sell these days.   Especially if you factor in Paypal since on ebay you can't ask the seller to pay the fees.   Amazing how a .99 no reserve auction can generate a TON of interest and bids whereas a $200 starting price garners no interest.   And of course there are sellers who kill auctions right before it ends if they feel like they're getting too low a price and decide not to sell.   But the cheapest way to sell on ebay is to NOT have a reserve and simply set your bid at no reserve or at a minimum selling price.   

That's why selling on GH is nice.   It's free to us and the board will go to keyboard lovers within the community.   I still occasionally hawk that rare item on Ebay, but mostly a WTB here on our classifieds will get me whatever I need.   Well ....... except for artisan caps LOL. 

[skcheng]

Clickykeyboards has a decent rotation of IBM Model M's, I feel the price is reasonable given the track record of the keyboard and how long they have been doing it. Does anyone else have an opinion of them? I dont have the time or energy right now to try to deal with a DOA from some random ebay seller.

Brian is great.   I wrote a review about him and Clickykeyboards some time ago.   He does a great job cleaning up and sending the board out in fully operational condition.  But, I do doubt that he has any SSKs  (they sell as soon as he gets them) in stock and if you'd be able to buy one off of him anytime soon since I'm sure he has a waiting list on SSKs, AT-Fs, Kishavers etc.....

I haven't purchased much since I moved away from keyboards a while back, but I'm sure it's the same deal with them:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9809.msg179196#msg179196

[fohat.digs]

This dead horse has been the object of untold flogging, and it will surely continue.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51443.0

I will agree with much of what you said but there are some things that I must take issue with:

Amazing how a .99 no reserve auction can generate a TON of interest and bids whereas a $200 starting price garners no interest.
 

This may be true in a specialized scenario, such as where the reasonable selling price is $225. And what is "interest" anyway? Bids?

And then there's the psychology behind selling. Ebay is a very expensive place to sell these days.
 

You have to look at the ebay agenda through cynical eyes. Ebay makes their money on sellers' fees, which, I agree, are rapacious.

However, they do provide an invaluable service by putting your item in front of millions of buyers, worldwide, and no one else can offer anything even remotely comparable. For that, I am willing to pay them almost any percentage.

But ebay remains entirely focused on buyers, because they only survive by attracting buyers and keeping them happy. (I totally believe that as long as demand exists, supply will materialize to satisfy it.) Thus, ebay goes to extraordinary lengths to attempt to convince sellers to start low, and to encourage buyers to bid early and bid often.

They want buyers to engage emotionally with an initial desire to get a bargain, and to continue in a feeding frenzy of imaging that this thing, that they now want because they thought they were going to get it cheap, is about to get away.

A buyer cannot afford to become emotional on ebay, unless he has cash to spare.

But the cheapest way to sell on ebay is to NOT have a reserve and simply set your bid at no reserve or at a minimum selling price.   
 

The cheapest way to sell on ebay is straight auction, short time frame, no reserve.

Ebay wants sellers to do this (ie charges the lowest fees in this mode) because it provides buyers the best opportunity for bargains.

This is not counter-productive, even though it accrues minimal fees on the individual sale itself, because in the long game it inflates the confidence of buyers to use ebay. The more bargains available, the more activity that will happen. If "activity" means "emotion" then I recommend that you stay away.

Sellers are always frustrated and angered when they feel that they have let a valuable item go too cheap, so I recommend that you never set your starting price below what you would reasonably accept.

Ebay loves to publish statistics to dispute this strategy, but you (and I am talking to sellers, of course) need to do what you are comfortable with.

Buyers will do well if they are patient and logical, and will pay far more if they are impatient and emotional.