Author Topic: PBT Dark second wave (production)  (Read 924402 times)

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Offline swimmingbird

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #550 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 22:55:09 »
Please send the following:
- Paypal invoice from Ivan for relevant GB
- Paypal receipt from relevant GB
- Your contact details, including name, geekhack username, phone number and address [optional]

How do you want us to send you the Paypal stuff? Should I save the forms as a PDF and put them as an attachment?

I think a screenshot should be enough.

Yep this

Just open up your original invoice from Ivan and take a screenshot - the only personal info this will have is your email address

Offline HighNoon

  • Posts: 104
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #551 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 17:11:01 »
swimmingbird I just sent you my info. Hoping I can get my $76.76 back. Thanks for organizing this.

Offline litster

  • Posts: 2890
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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #552 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 00:06:13 »
swimmingbird, That is quite a bit of personal information that you are trying to collect.  What could you do with all the buyers' information?  What could the information prove to the relevant authority? 

Ivan replied to personal email, why doesn't he post on this thread with his update?  It is one thing he gave up on the site and the hobby (I have been off here for quite some time), it is quite another when you are holding tens of thousands of dollars from people who trusted him. 

Offline henz

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #553 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 10:01:15 »
swimmingbird, That is quite a bit of personal information that you are trying to collect.  What could you do with all the buyers' information?  What could the information prove to the relevant authority? 

Ivan replied to personal email, why doesn't he post on this thread with his update?  It is one thing he gave up on the site and the hobby (I have been off here for quite some time), it is quite another when you are holding tens of thousands of dollars from people who trusted him.

what did he say to you?

Offline Hellcatz

  • Posts: 222
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #554 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 16:50:03 »
swimmingbird, That is quite a bit of personal information that you are trying to collect.  What could you do with all the buyers' information?  What could the information prove to the relevant authority? 

Ivan replied to personal email, why doesn't he post on this thread with his update?  It is one thing he gave up on the site and the hobby (I have been off here for quite some time), it is quite another when you are holding tens of thousands of dollars from people who trusted him.
he hasn't been on since the 28 of January? How is he suppose to reply.

Offline litster

  • Posts: 2890
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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #555 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 22:43:46 »
He may not be on since January.  But he is alive and he is well enough to reply to personal email.  He knows he owes GH people tens of thousands of dollars.  He is not replying not because he has not been on Since January.  He is not replying because he doesn't have the guts to come back here.

Offline redskull

  • Posts: 381
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #556 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 22:58:08 »
He may not be on since January.  But he is alive and he is well enough to reply to personal email.  He knows he owes GH people tens of thousands of dollars.  He is not replying not because he has not been on Since January.  He is not replying because he doesn't have the guts to come back here.

then what is his next step in resolving this issue sir? are you in constant contact with him?

Offline litster

  • Posts: 2890
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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #557 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 23:26:17 »
I am not in contact with him.

Offline telnet

  • Posts: 56
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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #558 on: Wed, 23 March 2016, 01:02:24 »
It is understandable that people lose interest in hobbies. On GH and r/MK everyone talks about their endgame.  The reality is that the endgame is not a phenomenal moment when you find the best keyboard. The endgame is the keyboard that is good enough and your interest in the hobby fizzles out.

Without much incentive there really isn't much that would make Ivan come back to face the pitchforks from all the group buy participants. (I am a participant of this GB)
What we (the participants) want is to either our caps or get a refund, and have some timely updates on the situation.

I'm going to make the assumption that Ivan has not spent the group buy money.  What are his action options to make things right?

- He has received the black pbt caps, they need to be sorted, packed, and shipped out.
+He could ship the whole set to another GB organizer that is willing to help take on the work.
+IMSTO would need to be paid

- GMK buyers would need to have their money refunded.
+ Paypal refund timeline would have expired, so there is no simple way of doing this. An actual payment would need to be made to all the participants.
+ He could send the money and a CSV export of those buyers to a trusted person, who could send the money back to each individual.

To get a good outcome for all of us, even Ivan, it really comes down to making these actions steps simple for him. Reduce the barriers, so we can all move beyond this awful and stressful situation. The posts about contacting authorities or legal action might not be the best first step.  These actions should only be take if there is no other solution, such as the GB money is gone.

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Offline daerid

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #559 on: Wed, 23 March 2016, 16:07:18 »
He is not replying because he doesn't have the guts to come back here.

If you're not in contact with him, how can you be sure of this?

Offline TBone

  • Posts: 216
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #560 on: Wed, 23 March 2016, 16:21:25 »
He is not replying because he doesn't have the guts to come back here.

If you're not in contact with him, how can you be sure of this?

It seems like Lister is just purely speculating and referring to how Hoff emailed with Ivan recently (until Hoff brought up GB's, then silence)...unless I'm misunderstanding.

Offline litster

  • Posts: 2890
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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #561 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 10:21:33 »
TBone is the smart one.

Offline MaNiFeX

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #562 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 11:59:30 »

To get a good outcome for all of us, even Ivan, it really comes down to making these actions steps simple for him. Reduce the barriers, so we can all move beyond this awful and stressful situation. The posts about contacting authorities or legal action might not be the best first step.  These actions should only be take if there is no other solution, such as the GB money is gone.

Stopping by from the Miami group buy.  I agree with telnet, he's gotten PBT4 out, has the keys for this buy, and still has some work to do.  The best result for all would be to move things forward, if they can...  I really hope Ivan surfaces and explains what's up, though. 

Offline mattrox217

  • Posts: 11
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #563 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 13:31:02 »
What a disaster. Shame this happened. Thankfully, I don't care about the money anymore, it's just too bad it fell apart like this. I'm still hopeful and would love my set, but at this point it's looking pretty bleak.

Offline Baddy126

  • Posts: 108
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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #564 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 14:37:48 »
He may not be on since January.  But he is alive and he is well enough to reply to personal email.  He knows he owes GH people tens of thousands of dollars.  He is not replying not because he has not been on Since January.  He is not replying because he doesn't have the guts to come back here.

You're assuming Ivan cares about the community and the people in it... He's not showing his face not because he doesn't have the guts to... it's because he doesn't care about gh nor anyone from it. He gained all he could and left... what would be the point of him coming back here now?

Offline animaliaparadoxa

  • Posts: 60
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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #565 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 15:28:14 »
He may not be on since January.  But he is alive and he is well enough to reply to personal email.  He knows he owes GH people tens of thousands of dollars.  He is not replying not because he has not been on Since January.  He is not replying because he doesn't have the guts to come back here.

You're assuming Ivan cares about the community and the people in it... He's not showing his face not because he doesn't have the guts to... it's because he doesn't care about gh nor anyone from it. He gained all he could and left... what would be the point of him coming back here now?
People have this unfortunate but understandable tendency to fill in gaps of knowledge with speculation. Which is what people are doing here, with exception to Hoff and IMSTO. I'm not defending Ivan and his actions/inactions because I'm also pissed about the lack of communication and fraud potential of this GB. However - you cannot know the mind of another and coming here telling everybody what you believe is motivating Ivan is not constructive.

I'm all for pursuing some form of legal recourse after, and only after, there has been some attempt at resolution, internally, within the geekhack community. Moderators and IRL associates of Ivan's should be called on to collect the facts to the best of their ability. This seems to be happening currently to some extent.

I care about the keycaps and money but I think the larger stake is community integrity and trust. This is my first Ivan GB but I've participated, with positive outcomes, in others by Elton, Feng, and GhostOfHarry. I jumped on this one because of Ivan's reputation for delivering the good **** - albeit slowly and with minimal communication at times. His behavior this time around puts any future group buys in jeopardy. Not only his own (however unlikely they are to occur) but those by other organisers. What rational person would participate in future buys after perusing this and the Miami night thread?

I'm interested in facts rather than uninformed opinion. And I apologise in case you have insider information we've not been made aware of. This is more a general statement and not so much me targeting individuals.

Offline daerid

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #566 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 18:55:54 »
TBone is the smart one.

Ahh makes sense. My misunderstanding.

Offline swimmingbird

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #567 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 23:57:23 »
I've sent an update email to everyone who has reached me on the gmail address

If you don't get it for some reason the gist of it is reach out to paypal as soon as possible and file a claim with them

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

Offline Stabilized

  • Posts: 93
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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #568 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 06:34:29 »
I've sent an update email to everyone who has reached me on the gmail address

If you don't get it for some reason the gist of it is reach out to paypal as soon as possible and file a claim with them

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

I am not so familiar with making a claim on Paypal (first time doing it, guess that's lucky). How do you do it? I tried going to the resolution centre and I typed up a message, but it made it out that it would go straight to Ivan, and now I can't find any evidence of me sending it...

So should I email them directly at customer support or is there something I missed on the website somewhere?

Offline mattrox217

  • Posts: 11
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #569 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 08:11:36 »
I'm not going to open a dispute because if the caps ever do come through I still want them. However, if you're looking to open a dispute, you can do so by following the instructions on the following page. It looks like it will allow you to open a dispute for older orders, but who knows what their response will be.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#13

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #570 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 08:27:59 »
I wonder what happened to Ivan. This was the first group buy I joined along with the CF-LX group buy (both of which I dropped out of, but more for financial reasons over fraud or delays), and back then, everyone was backing up how reliable Ivan was and how he's been a trustworthy GB leader since 2013.

So what happened? :-X
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 March 2016, 08:30:05 by E3E »

Offline Waateva

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #571 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 08:44:54 »
I wonder what happened to Ivan. This was the first group buy I joined along with the CF-LX group buy (both of which I dropped out of, but more for financial reasons over fraud or delays), and back then, everyone was backing up how reliable Ivan was and how he's been a trustworthy GB leader since 2013.

So what happened? :-X

I think that is what a lot of the people here are wondering as well.
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Offline rainb1ood

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #572 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 09:07:39 »
Someone probably stole his colorful couch and went mad

Offline archer

  • Posts: 215
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #573 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 13:10:17 »
I'm not going to open a dispute because if the caps ever do come through I still want them. However, if you're looking to open a dispute, you can do so by following the instructions on the following page. It looks like it will allow you to open a dispute for older orders, but who knows what their response will be.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#13
Where do you see, in that link, where we can submit a dispute for orders place over 180 days out?

Offline Hellcatz

  • Posts: 222
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #574 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 19:01:20 »
I'm not going to open a dispute because if the caps ever do come through I still want them. However, if you're looking to open a dispute, you can do so by following the instructions on the following page. It looks like it will allow you to open a dispute for older orders, but who knows what their response will be.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#13
Where do you see, in that link, where we can submit a dispute for orders place over 180 days out?
You cant. I've tried already. Paypal would not even look at a depute after 180 days. I was shocked that swimmingbird was even able to get a response from paypal considering the circumstances.

Offline swimmingbird

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #575 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 20:30:36 »
You need to call them and escalate it as high as you can

Offline Moonshinedawg

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #576 on: Sat, 26 March 2016, 16:39:28 »
I think I'll be sticking to Massdrop from now on.

Offline Hellcatz

  • Posts: 222
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #577 on: Mon, 28 March 2016, 18:11:14 »
So it's safe to assume that we would likely never see that money again?

Offline havenlau

  • Posts: 26
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #578 on: Tue, 29 March 2016, 15:56:55 »
So it's safe to assume that we would likely never see that money again?

I really hope my caps would show up one day  :-[

Offline VERGiL

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #579 on: Wed, 30 March 2016, 07:20:00 »
Funny thing is, you can now order the set from imsto himself: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=108

Offline lolpes

  • Posts: 384
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #580 on: Wed, 30 March 2016, 07:33:42 »
Funny thing is, you can now order the set from imsto himself: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=108

Has been there for quite sometime and not in all the layouts proposed for this GB. I think they are remnants from round 1.

Offline havenlau

  • Posts: 26
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #581 on: Wed, 30 March 2016, 18:38:41 »
Funny thing is, you can now order the set from imsto himself: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=108

Has been there for quite sometime and not in all the layouts proposed for this GB. I think they are remnants from round 1.

Yeah and they aren't in stock 98% of the time, might just pick a set up  :-X

Offline SuperSumo

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #582 on: Wed, 30 March 2016, 22:23:53 »
Funny thing is, you can now order the set from imsto himself: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=108

Has been there for quite sometime and not in all the layouts proposed for this GB. I think they are remnants from round 1.

Wow, nice! I went ahead and ordered the black on black and black blanks like I originally wanted in this group buy. If I ever get the keys from Ivan, I'll just sell them. Too bad the keys now cost me twice as much. Oh well.

Offline lasttycoon

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #583 on: Fri, 01 April 2016, 16:32:41 »
I should have just waited for them to come in stock. Ill keep checking by here incase there are updates but its MassDrop for me from now on.
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Offline Hellcatz

  • Posts: 222
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #584 on: Fri, 01 April 2016, 19:51:55 »
You had one bad experience and you're never joining another again? How many good group buys have u had and how many bad ones?

Offline lasttycoon

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #585 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 11:52:09 »
You had one bad experience and you're never joining another again? How many good group buys have u had and how many bad ones?
This is my first GeekHack GB. I have done about 10 buys with MassDrop with no hitches.
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Offline six_chains

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #586 on: Sun, 17 April 2016, 11:40:49 »
guys... I'm really sad about this  :(

it's a bad look for the community as well..
how many people will never do a group buy ever again because of incidents like this.



still keeping my fingers crossed though that Ivan comes through... i really want my AUREBESH
 

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Offline rwarwarwa

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #587 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 08:11:19 »
guys... I'm really sad about this  :(

it's a bad look for the community as well..
how many people will never do a group buy ever again because of incidents like this.



still keeping my fingers crossed though that Ivan comes through... i really want my AUREBESH

really sad..
at least, I will never participate GB

Offline ATXTider

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Offline Polymer

  • Posts: 1587
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #589 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 04:12:14 »
guys... I'm really sad about this  :(

it's a bad look for the community as well..
how many people will never do a group buy ever again because of incidents like this.



still keeping my fingers crossed though that Ivan comes through... i really want my AUREBESH

The thing is, it happens ALL the time with this community.  Everytime I say that people come and say it isn't that often but it is...And what makes it worse is a good portion of the time it is from very very senior members of the board...

It really does feel like you have very senior members who are looking to get out of the hobby a bit and as one last hurrah they rip off the community for a bunch of money....Because of the nature of GBs all of the time limit protections go out the window.

Paypal or someone needs to have some sort of escrow/settlement group that holds the funds which means the GB Runner needs to front the money (and if you can't too bad).  It means the GB Runner is entitled for some margin (cost of money etc) and the holding company is entitled to some but at least we wouldn't have this issue.  Once the Runner says "I'm shipping" there is a clock to deliver the goods and proof of delivery will release the funds.  I was going to say maybe someone could perform this function but given how many members you might've trusted in the past have ripped off the community that idea would suck. 

There really needs to be someone that goes after these people in some way...legal or otherwise...

Offline 27

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #590 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 07:48:15 »
guys... I'm really sad about this  :(

it's a bad look for the community as well..
how many people will never do a group buy ever again because of incidents like this.



still keeping my fingers crossed though that Ivan comes through... i really want my AUREBESH

The thing is, it happens ALL the time with this community.  Everytime I say that people come and say it isn't that often but it is...And what makes it worse is a good portion of the time it is from very very senior members of the board...

It really does feel like you have very senior members who are looking to get out of the hobby a bit and as one last hurrah they rip off the community for a bunch of money....Because of the nature of GBs all of the time limit protections go out the window.

Paypal or someone needs to have some sort of escrow/settlement group that holds the funds which means the GB Runner needs to front the money (and if you can't too bad).  It means the GB Runner is entitled for some margin (cost of money etc) and the holding company is entitled to some but at least we wouldn't have this issue.  Once the Runner says "I'm shipping" there is a clock to deliver the goods and proof of delivery will release the funds.  I was going to say maybe someone could perform this function but given how many members you might've trusted in the past have ripped off the community that idea would suck. 

There really needs to be someone that goes after these people in some way...legal or otherwise...

Are you suggesting that I, an unemployed student, should front the money to make my custom board a reality? $350 x 25-50 is no small amount.
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Offline Chungas

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #591 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 08:36:38 »
No order link?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Offline MAR82

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #592 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 08:39:53 »
No order link?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Order link for what?

Offline 27

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #593 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 08:40:08 »
No order link?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

This gb is long over man. The runner ran off with everyone's monies.
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Offline Chungas

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #594 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 08:48:32 »
No order link?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

This gb is long over man. The runner ran off with everyone's monies.

Oh crap just realised - man that sucks. Hope some resolution comes of it some day.

Offline Rodgaroon

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #595 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 09:23:26 »
No order link?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

This gb is long over man. The runner ran off with everyone's monies.

Oh crap just realised - man that sucks. Hope some resolution comes of it some day.

The moderators are trying to get it all worked out; but, what Ivan did, is just plain horrible.
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Offline ghostjuggernaut

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #596 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 19:30:45 »
No order link?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

This gb is long over man. The runner ran off with everyone's monies.

Oh crap just realised - man that sucks. Hope some resolution comes of it some day.

The moderators are trying to get it all worked out; but, what Ivan did, is just plain horrible.

For the record, the Mod team and site Admin are not working on this.  We were not involved with this in any way.  Ivan was a moderator, however he is responsible for his own actions.  Hoffmanmyster did attempt to reach out to him asking for information, but i do not believe he has heard anything back from him.  I am sure if he did, he would have posted in Ivan's threads informing everyone. 

I do hope Ivan sorts this all out though.  It may be a pipe dream at this point, but hope is about all we can have right now.

Offline Polymer

  • Posts: 1587
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #597 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 20:17:13 »
Are you suggesting that I, an unemployed student, should front the money to make my custom board a reality? $350 x 25-50 is no small amount.

Are you suggesting that the community should give you $17500 to make your custom board a reality without any guarantee they'll receive it?

Sounds pretty ridiculous right?


Offline 27

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Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #598 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 20:54:23 »
Are you suggesting that I, an unemployed student, should front the money to make my custom board a reality? $350 x 25-50 is no small amount.

Are you suggesting that the community should give you $17500 to make your custom board a reality without any guarantee they'll receive it?

Sounds pretty ridiculous right?

Alright so every single groupbuy is ridiculous with that logic.

It's all trust based, and I feel like I have been around long enough and established myself as a friend to many to deserve that trust.  You may not trust that anyone will deliver, and that's up to you, but keep in mind that there have been many many more successful buys than failures.

Plus there are some locals who would quite literally beat me if I tried to scam anyone. ;)
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 April 2016, 20:57:39 by 27 »
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Offline rwarwarwa

  • Posts: 14
Re: PBT Dark second wave (production)
« Reply #599 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 03:58:07 »
srry my mistake
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 April 2016, 04:33:19 by rwarwarwa »