Mionix Zibal 60 / Z60 gaming keyboard with backlit keys

[digitalleftovers]

Big difference.  Thermaltake is butt Taiwanese Design ugly.  Mionix is not.

Plus I'm looking forward to some non-Asian booth babes for a change.

I agree.  It will take a while for me to get over the similarity of the bundled cable, though.  From the mionix site images, the key and case texture almost have that nice Filco matte to them.  I am curious to know if that is an effect of the touch-ups, or if the production model will look that way.  Thermaltake appears to lack this quality.

[IanM]

Big difference.  Thermaltake is butt Taiwanese Design ugly.  Mionix is not.

Had to edit my post, I was writing about the Z60 v MX-80 in response to Gravityjay. Although I agree about Thermaltake, one of the brands with the worst looking PC components and peripherals.

[IanM]

Meanwhile at Unicomp....

Is Unicomp stuff new? I thought they sold stuff salvaged from skips and dumpsters

[The Solutor]

Had to edit my post, I was writing about the Z60 v MX-80 in response to Gravityjay. Although I agree about Thermaltake, one of the brands with the worst looking PC components and peripherals.

Next time I visit the Pininfarina or Giugiaro plants I will mention you and your fine  taste, they will surely offer a good payed job to you...:biggrin:

[Gravityjay]

A (usually expensive) store in Germany has the Mionix Zibal for €130, so that would put it in the £110-£115 range. However the nasty looking Qpad is only £100 at a UK store (also one that likes to rip off customers with above average prices, so I refuse to post their name or give a link) Razer Black Widow Ultimate is £108 from Amazon UK.

Therefore I think £100-£115 is the most likely price range, but if other stores start selling the Qpad for less then maybe the Mionix street price will dip into the £90-£100 range. I wouldn't count on it though, the Mionix mice are still some of the most expensive available relative to their immediate competition.

Thanks for the info! At the moment I'm getting pretty annoyed with the constant Euros= Dollars idea that a lot of manufacturers seem to have... I really like the Deck legend board, but I cant order from the US site which would cost $159 plus shipping from the US (say $60). Instead English people have to pay €199 plus €10 shipping

As it stands the difference between the prices is £60 in favour of paying 4 times the shipping rate! The mark up the EU distributer has on the Deck Legend is simply ridiculous and it will stay this way because there is simply no alternative if you want that keyboard!

Plus either way there is the risk of paying customs charges!

[digitalleftovers]

At the moment I'm getting pretty annoyed with the constant Euros= Dollars idea that a lot of manufacturers seem to have...

If anyone has some economics insight about that, I would love to know more.  Its worth a thread of its own; because  its is certainly not limited to peripherals.  All electronics and clothing (as far as I can tell) seem to follow that model.

[IanM]

If anyone has some economics insight about that, I would love to know more

It's mostly about charging whatever price you think you can get away with in any given market. In Japan they used to have a nickname for the UK: 'Treasure Island' - because they were able to charge silly mark up on products. For the most part customers don't know any better so didn't complain. Of course now almost everyone has Internet access and price comparisons are a click away, but the businesses whine and ***** about how their easy profits are being eroded and they have to compete in what is now a worldwide marketplace. So they lobby for restrictive import controls and try to contractually force their distributors and retailers to only sell in their own region.

They will tell you that it costs much more to do business in Europe than the USA, but it's another lie. I believe the reality is typically less than 5% extra cost, but of course you need to allow for the type and size of business.

[Khaotik55]

There is one thing that bothers me about this keyboard and it's the off centered arrows and lettering on big keys such as tab, caps lock, both shifts, enter, and backspace. I find it incredibly annoying and bad looking when they are put all to the bottom edge or top edge of a key. I'm guessing this is for LED reasons.

EDIT: I just noticed one more thing that is annoying the hell out of me. Letters such as QWER blah blah are centered, and other letters such as AF are to the right. WTF? I'm so OCD I'd be the worst quality assurance guy. (Or would it technically be the best?)

Except the logo kinda looks like a scrotum.

I saw that while looking for an image of the keyboard, and I literally laughed out loud after looking at my mouse.

[IanM]

There is one thing that bothers me about this keyboard and it's the off centered arrows and lettering on big keys such as tab, caps lock, both shifts, enter, and backspace...

...other letters such as AF are to the right. WTF?

I downloaded the hi-res image pack from Mionix' website, rescaled a few to a more manageable 1050x700 res and put them in the OP. The bigger version of the image you posted is at this URL if you want to edit your post: http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3360/zibal60topblackbg.jpg

The cursor key arrows are a bit chunky for the offset, so it does look a little odd, and I agree it would be preferable if all key legends were at the top edge. I guess it won't be a deal breaker for many people, but some of those offset letters are inexplicable. Is it a rough prototype? optical illusion?

[Khaotik55]

Is it a rough prototype? optical illusion?

After thinking about it for a bit I believe it's just to center the transparent symbols over the LED's so you don't get uneven back lighting. However to be honest I'd rather have uneven back lighting than uneven symbols, it looks awful.

They did do a good job on the numbers and F keys however, something iOne couldn't do to save their life.
EDIT: Or did they, the F4 and F9 keys are off centered. /sigh

[digitalleftovers]

There is one thing that bothers me about this keyboard and it's the off centered arrows and lettering on big keys such as tab, caps lock, both shifts, enter, and backspace. I find it incredibly annoying and bad looking when they are put all to the bottom edge or top edge of a key. I'm guessing this is for LED reasons.

EDIT: I just noticed one more thing that is annoying the hell out of me. Letters such as QWER blah blah are centered, and other letters such as AF are to the right. WTF? I'm so OCD I'd be the worst quality assurance guy. (Or would it technically be the best?)

Show Image

I saw that while looking for an image of the keyboard, and I literally laughed out loud after looking at my mouse.

I don't think this image accurately represents the keyboard.  I say that because the lighting looks like it was layered to enhance the effect, and the layers aren't centered.

[MartZink]

Look at the 0 key on the 10key place, wat?

[DaemonRaccoon]

I think that's just so it lights up, the switch is centered under the key.

[The Solutor]

Look at the 0 key on the 10key place, wat?

The lasering mask has to be refined, just as appened with Xarmor.

Take a look on the Xarmor preproduction models and you will see some oddly placed legends, exactly as happen on the Mionix image.

[MartZink]

Actually on every backlit Cherry MX keyboard I've seen the MX switch is mounted upside down.  Puts the LED on top under the Lettering.

Other trivia is the Filco ISO version does the same for the \ key.  Weird.

The KBDmania forum members probably think this makes a difference in feel.

Isn't that because the letter is usually on the top of the key?
I haven't seen many kays with the letter on the lower part of it.

[The Solutor]

Isn't that because the letter is usually on the top of the key?

Obviously is because the letter are on the upper part of the key.

AFAIK just some stupid apple one has the letter on the lower side.

Btw switch upside down mens nothing, you can mount the switch in any of the four main orientation, and even rotated if the design of the keyboard requires it.

[MartZink]

I wanted black cherry, but I got upside down black cherry instead

[BucklingSpring]

I wanted black cherry, but I got upside down black cherry instead

I'm not used to Swedish humor.

[MartZink]

no, i wanted that but i got this instead:

[Mr. Perfect]

Hopefully they will have an assortment of back lighting colors and switches available. Clears with white back lights please!

This thread needs swedish blonde booth babes!

Show Image

Speaking of, does anyone know what the key with the uterus on it does? The one in place of the left Windows key? I'm guessing this board was designed by another one of those people who, back in 1996, accidentally pressed a Windows key while playing Command and Conquer and froze up a four person multiplayer match.

Oh, and left please.

[BucklingSpring]

Mionix is USB only with 6+4KRO.
http://www.overclock.net/13172743-post86.htm

Damn I'm good.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?16934-Mionix-Zibal-60-Z60-gaming-keyboard-with-backlit-keys&p=331503&viewfull=1#post331503

I'll put it in the NKRO wiki after a Geekhacker confirms with testing.

I familiar with the "trust but verify rule", Mionix hasn't come back to us yet about this or did I missed his response?

[BucklingSpring]

You missed his response.
EDIT:  Spoke too soon.   I forgot the L in HTML.  That is about the extent of my HTML coding expertise.  Fixed.

 
Hum... It's an indirect answer. I like them better when there is no room for interpretation. (Eg do not work with PS2 adaptor or the use of a PS2 adaptor will not improve KRO)

[Mionix]

Hum... It's an indirect answer. I like them better when there is no room for interpretation. (Eg do not work with PS2 adaptor or the use of a PS2 adaptor will not improve KRO)

Ok just so were clear.... Does not work with PS2 adaptor only six key rollover via USB

[.XL]

Ok just so were clear.... Does not work with PS2 adaptor only six key rollover via USB

I'd assume this is more than necessary for most gamers; I think the whole NKRO thing is just overkill. Only Dr. Octopus could make use of NKRO...

[keyboardlover]

Hey! SOME people actually use NKRO!

[noodles256]

=]

[Arc'xer]

I'd assume this is more than necessary for most gamers; I think the whole NKRO thing is just overkill. Only Dr. Octopus could make use of NKRO...

The geekhack wiki needs to address the whole NKRO thing and specifically say it's a redundancy factor for the entire board.

In simplest terms USB standard HID = 6 KRO + 4 modifiers. USB non-standard controller(ex: Noppoo choc mini) full-NKRO using multiple keyboard style I/O. PS/2 full NKRO or high volume NKRO.

But most people seem to focus on the port limit i.e. USB/PS/2/USB-mod and or physical limitation as in I don't have enough fingers to hit that many. When instead NKRO should be labelled a redundancy factor i.e. in having the additional 20-30 dollar price tag for NKRO diodes or Topre-style PCB nestled hierarchy. You eliminate ghosting/rollover issues on any combination of keys you choose to use the keyboard for gaming.

In simplest terms despite the fact I don't have a need for so much NKRO volume. If I decide to use a non-standard or uncommon layout for a game I would still like the same equal capacity throughout the entire board. Compared to say the Razer blackwidow and it's "gaming-optimized" layout which results in issues with non-standard users such as arrow/numpad users or ASDF users or IJKL users etc.etc.

Upside down switches

I made a thread on this and posted on another as well with a similar user mentioning the same thing but some of the posts were deleted with the update. This is actually noticeable difference for me at least when I tested it out.  

Even this person thought they felt weird comparing the Das and blackwidow mx blues

So they do make a difference in feel and it's primarily because the tactile element even the linear element on the mx black are towards the fingertips i.e. largest concentration of nerves. While normally with the diode socket down the elements are against your fingertips towards your nails. Some might say there might be no difference but I disagree and certainly feel the switch better. Plus I also feel like I'm typing against a backing more so towards the linear switch but it provides a better feeling of the angled but flat stem(feels a bit more stable, supportive as well when pressing down for all three little but again a bit more so towards the linears though).

[ricercar]

Ripster doesn't care about NKRO unless it's on a Nostromo.

[Mr. Perfect]

The wiki refers to key rollover in regards to the minimum number of keys that register, so the 6 key rollover board would accept any six with no blocking or ghosting. So ESDF would register just the same as WASD, if that's what you mean.

[Tallon]

I don't think this has been asked yet - how durable are the key caps? Will owners see big blobs of light instead of letters in 6 months (from the coating/etc rubbing away the legends)?

[Tallon]

Also - if this had clears, I would pre order immediately. I'm interested in trying a black, but that eventual purchase will have to wait awhile. That said, this is the most interesting back-lit mechanical keyboard to date!

[Mionix]

I don't think this has been asked yet - how durable are the key caps? Will owners see big blobs of light instead of letters in 6 months (from the coating/etc rubbing away the legends)?

They are lazer printed key caps, I am typing on a very early prototype of the Zibal 60 which I have had for about 6 months and there is no indication of wear on any keys.

[BucklingSpring]

Very clear.  Some of our members do not speak English as first language.  Some only speak lolspeak for that matter.  Like Runeazn.

What? Some memberS... I thought I was the only non-English speaking person in the whole world.

Joke aside, I'm sure Mionix can relate too.

Thanks leaving no room for interpretation about the 6KRO (Or laziness for that matter...)

Sometime Ripster get little self centered and quote his own post alone making it a bit out of context. Then my laziness kicks in and I don't bother figuring out what the whole remote thread was all about.
 

Ripster is right!

[BucklingSpring]

Good to hear.
Razer Lycossa.

Show Image

I like when the Razer marketing guys said a backlit keyboard shouldn't cost an arm (clearly pointing finger at Decks).
At the end, Razer's were not cheaper by much (financially speaking) then this is what you get for 50$ less?

I'm really looking forward to the Zibal 60.

[BucklingSpring]

When does your job start?

You're starting to get annoying.

Next Monday.
And thank you. I like shooting from the hip.
I'm going to miss you too

[lzf929]

I like when the Razer marketing guys said a backlit keyboard shouldn't cost an arm (clearly pointing finger at Decks).
At the end, Razer's were not cheaper by much (financially speaking) then this is what you get for 50$ less?

I'm really looking forward to the Zibal 60.

 

But it looks like that Zibal 60 uses silimar materials as the Razer's keycaps. So I doubt the durability of Zibal's keycaps too.

[daerid]

A handful of LED's and a USB hub shouldn't cost $50

[BucklingSpring]

But it looks like that Zibal 60 uses silimar materials as the Razer's keycaps. So I doubt the durability of Zibal's keycaps too.

Good for you if you can do mass spectrometry based on pictures. I'm not there yet. Don't burst my bubble.

One thing I like about my Decks is their consistent ugliness. Unlike cheap keycaps, they don't get uglier over time.

[BucklingSpring]

A handful of LED's and a USB hub shouldn't cost $50

True but good material and QC does. That's why I think a Deck worth much more than 50$ over a 130$ Razer.
Which actually makes a Deck a good deal.

Quality wise a Backlit Razer should have cost no more than 60$.

I leave Mionix the benefit of the doubt. The brand is also known for making quality products.
Time will tell. The first Zibal reviews will not reveal the paint quality but thousands of hours of game play will eventually. By then we will be able to compare apple to apple. Unless of course you can do mass spectrometry based on pictures like lzf929.

[lzf929]

True but good material and QC does. That's why I think a Deck worth much more than 50$ over a 130$ Razer.
Which actually makes a Deck a good deal.

Quality wise a Backlit Razer should have cost no more than 60$.

I leave Mionix the benefit of the doubt. The brand is also known for making quality products.
Time will tell. The first Zibal reviews will not reveal the paint quality but thousands of hours of game play will eventually. By then we will be able to compare apple to apple. Unless of course you can do mass spectrometry based on pictures like lzf929.

 
How expensive is it to build a new mold for a new keyboard and keycaps? Mechanical keyboards are not so popular. Thus, to reduce the cost they have to share the same mold for a variety of keyboards and keycaps. This one basically looks like a Thermaltake Meka G1 keyboard + Keycaps similar to Razer BW or Xarmor U9BL.

[The Solutor]

A handful of LED's and a USB hub shouldn't cost $50

 
Putting the leds in place is a time consuming process. I doubt they are mounted by an automated machine.

[BucklingSpring]

This one basically looks like a Thermaltake Meka G1 keyboard + Keycaps similar to Razer BW or Xarmor U9BL.

 
I'm with you with the Meka G1, the Zibal seams to share the same platform. Just like the Saab 9-2X did with a Subaru WRX. But the mold for the covers and keycaps is where the company can go as wild as it wants. Mionix added backlit to it and God knows what they used for the keycaps. I couldn't care less about the covers.

I know Razer quickly wear over time. I don't know yet about the XArmor and I know for sure Deck doesn't. But the Deck durable keycap design made it esthetically challenged and prone to light bleeding. Again, will Mionix provide the best of both world: Look and durability? Once again, future will tell. At first glance, they certainly got the look right.

[.XL]

I'm with you with the Meka G1, the Zibal seams to share the same platform. Just like the Saab 9-2X did with a Subaru WRX. But the mold for the covers and keycaps is where the company can go as wild as it wants. Mionix added backlit to it and God knows what they used for the keycaps. I couldn't care less about the covers.

I know Razer quickly wear over time. I don't know yet about the XArmor and I know for sure Deck doesn't. But the Deck durable keycap design made it esthetically challenged and prone to light bleeding. Again, will Mionix provide the best of both world: Look and durability? Once again, future will tell. At first glance, they certainly got the look right.

If Mionix can emulate the quality of the Naos 5000 mouse in it's keyboard, I think it will be a fantastic product. From now til it's released everything will be conjecture. Let's wait to read a few reviews and see how they do - I for one think it'll be a great board!

[noodles256]

thumbs up

[Curetia]

I would buy the Mionix instant if they build one with brown or clear switches and not the blacks.

[.XL]

I would buy the Mionix instant if they build one with brown or clear switches and not the blacks.

I actually liked the blacks more than the browns I used to have. They're just much more smooooth.

[Rally Man]

Are you planing on introducing other color LED lights?

[BucklingSpring]

I can answer all their future plans.

Good you can because if he [insert Samuel Jackson's quote here] then he will find out that Mionix will not answer any questions about future plans.

:-(

I cannot say anything about our future plans sorry...

[BucklingSpring]

Here the cristal ball for you

I cannot say anything about our future plans sorry...

[Mionix]

Are you planing on introducing other color LED lights?

 
Ok im gonna answer this one not with a corporate answer.... :tongue1:

Multi color LEDs are too big to fit the switches, we tried to get around this many ways but we have to wait for either a new style multi color led to be smaller and not too expensive or we can modify the switch to take a larger LED. From what we know there is no RGB LED that fits a switch