Razer to release their own keyswitch

[Hyde]

The CEO of Razer posted on his Facebook Page, regarding what I assume to be something about the backlash over the new switch.

https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/posts/662065430517909?stream_ref=10

link in case anyone cares

I think I'll have to admit with him, people usually don't like change and eventually they'll get used to it.  Technology is changing all the time and we just have to adapt to it.

However claiming a copy of existing design as their own new design is a different story...

[davkol]

many amaze. such butthurt. wow.

[dante]

The CEO of Razer posted on his Facebook Page, regarding what I assume to be something about the backlash over the new switch.

https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/posts/662065430517909?stream_ref=10

link in case anyone cares

I think I'll have to admit with him, people usually don't like change and eventually they'll get used to it.  Technology is changing all the time and we just have to adapt to it.

However claiming a copy of existing design as their own new design is a different story...

So why didn't anyone get butthurt over Matias switches?  Clearly they are clones.

If these were put in ugly non-gaming keyboards people probably wouldn't be mobbing up.

[Hyde]

^ Matias have been using ALPS since their Tactile Pro version 1.

After one point (between Tactile Pro 3 and Tactile Pro 4) the factory that makes ALPS switches all closed down and at the point there is no way to get ALPS switches anywhere in the world.

So they decide to take matter into their own hand and create their own.  They also did state they copied the ALPS design because of what happened (I went to their company tour and spoke to Edgar Matias so I know).

They didn't go out and be like BRAND NEW MECHANICAL SWITCH FROM MATIAS !!!  FIRST MECHANICAL SWITCH FOR TYPING !!!  CHERRY SWITCH WERE DESIGNED FOR FINGER EXERCISE NOT FOR TYPING !!!


P.S:  Sorry for the capslock, but you get my point.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

There are multiple Chinese people on the forum who have said that same thing about Chinese companies though.  Tinlong had a post about it not too long ago.  And no one is saying that Germans are the only people who care about their customers.  The statement was that, in general, Chinese companies and Western companies have different ways of doing business and that has the end result of German stuff typically being higher quality because they have a longer term business outlook.

This is getting off topic though.  We're here to laugh at all of Razer's marketing mumbo jumbo and speculate about which Kailh switch they cast in a different color.

I get fine products from China that work very well. Namely, every single piece of my custom desktop here as well as my monitor, mouse, and BWU aside from the switches. I wasn't attacking you, I was referring to the guy that said Chinese people are greedy and don't have a long term business outlook.

I will say it again, it has not been my experience that German products are of a higher quality than products from anywhere else. All industrialized countries are capable of making and have made good products that last a long time and serve their intended purpose. It's time to stop this "made in china"=low quality by default crap. When was the last time an industrialized nation made something to such high tolerances and precision as the iPhone with the unparalleled level of consistency that they have? They only thing I can think of, is in fact, Toyota.

We, as consumers, have to ascertain the level of quality through which a product is manufactured by personal experience and through research. Not by the sticker on it that says "that's the power of German engineering"or "made in China".

As a fellow Taiwanese / Chinese person, I'm speaking from a life time of experience in dealing with their products from all aspects of the consumer space. Yes the high quality products that come from China are designed by Western Companies with enforcement on quality in Mainland Chinese facilities from the higher ups in the Western companies.

It has been in my experience and many others that Japanese / German / American / most highly industrialized Western Nations have better engineering standards than mainland China.

If you do a survey of Mainland Chinese companies that design / manufacture and then sell their products to the west, how many people do you think are going to rave / rant about their products?

I'm willing to bet that most are not.

If you're going to call me a racist, then I guess I'm racist against my own ethnicity.

[Charizard^]

I was worried about linking due to the swear word used. Sorry about that

[wetto]

I know Razer gets a lot of hate around here.  Someone from here should really reach out to Razer and invite them to participate in the forum in order to improve their products.  We have had reps from Coolermaster and Corsair here.  The feedback helped get Coolermaster to remove the excessive branding on the QFR.  Logitech needs to get in here as well.  I think they should sell the little screen separately so I can throw it on my desk somewhere. 

So are the stems on the Razer switches actually different?  What does this have to do with Cherry's patent running out?

Linus's preview said the clicky ones pretty much feel like blues.  Will the tactile ones pretty much feel like browns or clears?

The CM Quick Fire TK was actually born in here and I'm quite sure that the CM Storm Novatouch wouldn't have been created were it not for the Topre enthusiasts...

More

In April 2012, the prototype of a mechanical keyboard with a unique layout which wasn't ever used before on mechanical keyboards (although there were membrane keyboards with them) appeared, mixing the arrow and numpad keys into a single one.




The name of this prototype was PLUM 96. A topic was created on geekhack discussing about this keyboard and how its layout was "perfect".

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=29605.0

But, soon the topic was forgotten for some time, mostly because the keyboard hadn't been released (but periodically someone would ask whether it had been released already or not), until the PLUM 96 started being sold in September and the topic was ressucitated.

Some time after the topic got active again, Carter from CM Storm, posted the following:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=29605.msg671509#msg671509
"So you guys like this layout.... people will be very happy soon"

In October, just a month later, the CM Quick Fire TK was annouced, having the same layout as the PLUM 96 as well as NKRO through USB (something CM Storm didn't had before and the PLUM 96 had).

The fact is, Cooler Master used the PLUM 96 as base for the CM Quick Fire TK. Carter doesn't even hides that because he discusses about the release of the CM Quick Fire TK on pages 4 and 5 of the PLUM 96's thread:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=29605.msg697651#msg697651

[admiralvorian]

this is pretty cool. I wonder if razer will come out with boards that are better quality than their recent black widow line

[BlueBär]

this is pretty cool. I wonder if razer will come out with boards that are better quality than their recent black widow line

I bet the absolute same board with lower quality switches will be better quality!

[mougrim]

this is pretty cool. I wonder if razer will come out with boards that are better quality than their recent black widow line

Hey, two years ago BlackWidow wasn't so bad. Now it transformed to crap?

[davkol]

this is pretty cool. I wonder if razer will come out with boards that are better quality than their recent black widow line

Hey, two years ago BlackWidow wasn't so bad. Now it transformed to crap?

More like 2013 was finally at least decent (if you ignore the marketing and keycaps), but now this? O_o

[kmacwannabe]

There are multiple Chinese people on the forum who have said that same thing about Chinese companies though.  Tinlong had a post about it not too long ago.  And no one is saying that Germans are the only people who care about their customers.  The statement was that, in general, Chinese companies and Western companies have different ways of doing business and that has the end result of German stuff typically being higher quality because they have a longer term business outlook.

This is getting off topic though.  We're here to laugh at all of Razer's marketing mumbo jumbo and speculate about which Kailh switch they cast in a different color.

I get fine products from China that work very well. Namely, every single piece of my custom desktop here as well as my monitor, mouse, and BWU aside from the switches. I wasn't attacking you, I was referring to the guy that said Chinese people are greedy and don't have a long term business outlook.

I will say it again, it has not been my experience that German products are of a higher quality than products from anywhere else. All industrialized countries are capable of making and have made good products that last a long time and serve their intended purpose. It's time to stop this "made in china"=low quality by default crap. When was the last time an industrialized nation made something to such high tolerances and precision as the iPhone with the unparalleled level of consistency that they have? They only thing I can think of, is in fact, Toyota.

We, as consumers, have to ascertain the level of quality through which a product is manufactured by personal experience and through research. Not by the sticker on it that says "that's the power of German engineering"or "made in China".

As a fellow Taiwanese / Chinese person, I'm speaking from a life time of experience in dealing with their products from all aspects of the consumer space. Yes the high quality products that come from China are designed by Western Companies with enforcement on quality in Mainland Chinese facilities from the higher ups in the Western companies.

It has been in my experience and many others that Japanese / German / American / most highly industrialized Western Nations have better engineering standards than mainland China.

If you do a survey of Mainland Chinese companies that design / manufacture and then sell their products to the west, how many people do you think are going to rave / rant about their products?

I'm willing to bet that most are not.

If you're going to call me a racist, then I guess I'm racist against my own ethnicity.

Taiwan is different from Chinese. I agree that thing made in Taiwan are a lot better than when it is made in China.

If you're talking about standards of engineering, then I suppose yes, but that's changing pretty fast. Xiaomi and Huawei make great phones, even possibly more popular than the iPhone 5S is.

[C5Allroad]

Imagine a Razer rep makes a thread here... the **** storm it would occur )

**** would hit the fan... And all of us would hate them.....
Or in a parallel universe they come to us for advice... And then they change and make better keyboards. But that would never happen...

[Kamen Rider Blade]

There are multiple Chinese people on the forum who have said that same thing about Chinese companies though.  Tinlong had a post about it not too long ago.  And no one is saying that Germans are the only people who care about their customers.  The statement was that, in general, Chinese companies and Western companies have different ways of doing business and that has the end result of German stuff typically being higher quality because they have a longer term business outlook.

This is getting off topic though.  We're here to laugh at all of Razer's marketing mumbo jumbo and speculate about which Kailh switch they cast in a different color.

You can go buy a Xiaomi / Huawei phone and compare it to the iPhone 5S and tell us how it holds up over time.

There's nobody I know that is willing to trust those two companies and their own branded products.

I get fine products from China that work very well. Namely, every single piece of my custom desktop here as well as my monitor, mouse, and BWU aside from the switches. I wasn't attacking you, I was referring to the guy that said Chinese people are greedy and don't have a long term business outlook.

I will say it again, it has not been my experience that German products are of a higher quality than products from anywhere else. All industrialized countries are capable of making and have made good products that last a long time and serve their intended purpose. It's time to stop this "made in china"=low quality by default crap. When was the last time an industrialized nation made something to such high tolerances and precision as the iPhone with the unparalleled level of consistency that they have? They only thing I can think of, is in fact, Toyota.

We, as consumers, have to ascertain the level of quality through which a product is manufactured by personal experience and through research. Not by the sticker on it that says "that's the power of German engineering"or "made in China".

As a fellow Taiwanese / Chinese person, I'm speaking from a life time of experience in dealing with their products from all aspects of the consumer space. Yes the high quality products that come from China are designed by Western Companies with enforcement on quality in Mainland Chinese facilities from the higher ups in the Western companies.

It has been in my experience and many others that Japanese / German / American / most highly industrialized Western Nations have better engineering standards than mainland China.

If you do a survey of Mainland Chinese companies that design / manufacture and then sell their products to the west, how many people do you think are going to rave / rant about their products?

I'm willing to bet that most are not.

If you're going to call me a racist, then I guess I'm racist against my own ethnicity.

Taiwan is different from Chinese. I agree that thing made in Taiwan are a lot better than when it is made in China.

If you're talking about standards of engineering, then I suppose yes, but that's changing pretty fast. Xiaomi and Huawei make great phones, even possibly more popular than the iPhone 5S is.

[cinnamoncider]

[AuRinBei]

The CEO of Razer posted on his Facebook Page, regarding what I assume to be something about the backlash over the new switch.

https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/posts/662065430517909?stream_ref=10

link in case anyone cares

That was kind of funny and surprisingly accurate.

"Razer: The Coldplay of mechanical keyboards"

[berserkfan]

The CEO of Razer posted on his Facebook Page, regarding what I assume to be something about the backlash over the new switch.

https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/posts/662065430517909?stream_ref=10

link in case anyone cares

That was kind of funny and surprisingly accurate.

"Razer: The Coldplay of mechanical keyboards"

As he said, Hate comes from fear of change.

How about I swap a Razer with somebody, say BucklingSpring's Deck Hassium or Francium?

If that guy gets mad, can I call him an ultraconservative and change-adverse person?

[cinnamoncider]

In case anyone is still doubting that these are Kailh switches, here's a snip from the above video showing that the switch has the Kailh logo on it, just below the word "Razer."

Show Image

i don't even....wait until somebody big whines that its not actually razer designed

In case anyone is still doubting that these are Kailh switches, here's a snip from the above video showing that the switch has the Kailh logo on it, just below the word "Razer."

Show Image

If Carter saying it's Kailh isn't enough, this should be enough proof for even retarded fanboys to admit it:

Show Image

Now, Kailh logo:

Show Image

And following, Kailh's main business partners:

Show Image

60 million lifecycle? Better than Cherry MX? I call Bull****.

Just in case anyone has still doubts  ;)
Image source: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/razer-releases-razer-brand-cherry-switch-clones-t7558.html

[Charizard^]

Both the fact that Razer's "new" switches are just rebranded Kailh switches, and the CEO of Razer was so militaristic on fb have made this board a deal-breaker for me...   

[Melvang]

Both the fact that Razer's "new" switches are just rebranded Kailh switches, and the CEO of Razer was so militaristic on fb have made this board a deal-breaker for me...   

Just wondering but how does the travel and actuation distances and what not with the "razer" switches compare to stock Kailh switches?

[Charizard^]

The Kailh website may have a spelling error, unless stock Kailh switches have a really deep actuation point.

Stock 4mm
http://www.kailh.com/en/products.asp?Categoryid=113&rel=15

Razer .4mm
http://www.razerzone.com/razer-mechanical-switches

[nubbinator]

4mm is total travel distance.  And Razer's site is saying it's a 2mm actuation point +/- 0.4mm.

My money is on it being a different color of these two switches:

http://kailh.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008841433231/pdtl/Pushbutton-switch/1055530129/Keyboard-Switch.htm

http://kailh.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008841433231/pdtl/Pushbutton-switch/1080912512/Mechanical-Keyswitch.htm

[Charizard^]

4mm is total travel distance.  And Razer's site is saying it's a 2mm actuation point +/- 0.4mm.

My money is on it being a different color of these two switches:

http://kailh.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008841433231/pdtl/Pushbutton-switch/1055530129/Keyboard-Switch.htm

http://kailh.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008841433231/pdtl/Pushbutton-switch/1080912512/Mechanical-Keyswitch.htm

That definitely makes more sense 

[laffindude]

Meanwhile, I'm trying to convince Matias to sell his switches to other companies as well (and there seems to be people interested on them).

They're already on the market if you know where to look.

[wetto]

Meanwhile, I'm trying to convince Matias to sell his switches to other companies as well (and there seems to be people interested on them).

They're already on the market if you know where to look.

Yeah, but no big companies are using them 

Seriously, it can enable RGB backlight, there's the quiet switch, the cost is similar to using MX Red and soon there will be more keycap options available.

I even tried (with no luck) to get Cooler Master to make a deal with them, but they see Matias more as a competitor than as a business partner.

[davkol]

Like if Cherry Corp. wasn't a competitor, at least in theory.

[Bullveyr]

The CEO of Razer posted on his Facebook Page, regarding what I assume to be something about the backlash over the new switch.

https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/posts/662065430517909?stream_ref=10

link in case anyone cares

I think I'll have to admit with him, people usually don't like change and eventually they'll get used to it.  Technology is changing all the time and we just have to adapt to it.

However claiming a copy of existing design as their own new design is a different story...

Calling the higher CPI on the Viper an improvement is also highly debatable. Although 500/1000 CPI compared to 400/800 can have its benefits the sensor (Agilent ADNS-2051) itself had a fairly low max. speed and by using a 3rd party lens (to raise the CPI) the max. speed got lowered even more. That made the mouse unusable for more people.

[missalaire]

Apparently someone on Reddit managed to get a hold of one of their new boards with the new switches and has been giving feedback on it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2022ga/its_here_unboxing_initial_impressions_testing/

[nubbinator]

Apparently someone on Reddit managed to get a hold of one of their new boards with the new switches and has been giving feedback on it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2022ga/its_here_unboxing_initial_impressions_testing/

Yeah, I saw that.  I'm just wondering how they can make assertions like these:

"On initial inspection plastic quality of the switch looks to be better than the horror stories of kailh switches.

Lets be very clear here about the wording. This is not Chinese knock off. It is not a knock off of a MX Cherry switch. It is a Chinese manufactured switch. It is a Razer switch (most likely made by kailh)

I know what a Chinese knock off is . Trust me. I'm Chinese , my father buried me to the neck in bootleg dvds. I know knockoffs.

This isn't one."

[inteli722]

Apparently someone on Reddit managed to get a hold of one of their new boards with the new switches and has been giving feedback on it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2022ga/its_here_unboxing_initial_impressions_testing/

Yeah, I saw that.  I'm just wondering how they can make assertions like these:

"On initial inspection plastic quality of the switch looks to be better than the horror stories of kailh switches.

Lets be very clear here about the wording. This is not Chinese knock off. It is not a knock off of a MX Cherry switch. It is a Chinese manufactured switch. It is a Razer switch (most likely made by kailh)

I know what a Chinese knock off is . Trust me. I'm Chinese , my father buried me to the neck in bootleg dvds. I know knockoffs.

This isn't one."

"on initial inspection plastic quality looks to be better than switches i have no experience with"

"Let's be clear here: This thing that looks just like a Cherry MX switch, right down to the stem and internals, is not a knock off. It's its own thing."

"I know what a knock-off is. Trust me, I have tons of experience with things that are completely different to chinese switch knockoffs"

It IS /r/mechanicalkeybaords, which might as well be ripster's cult following.

[BlueBär]

Yeah, I saw that.  I'm just wondering how they can make assertions like these:

"On initial inspection plastic quality of the switch looks to be better than the horror stories of kailh switches.

Lets be very clear here about the wording. This is not Chinese knock off. It is not a knock off of a MX Cherry switch. It is a Chinese manufactured switch. It is a Razer switch (most likely made by kailh)

I know what a Chinese knock off is . Trust me. I'm Chinese , my father buried me to the neck in bootleg dvds. I know knockoffs.

This isn't one."

So some guy somehow get's a hold of one and defends it. He can also judge the plastic quality by looking at it. Sounds legit.

[nubbinator]

"on initial inspection plastic quality looks to be better than switches i have no experience with"

"Let's be clear here: This thing that looks just like a Cherry MX switch, right down to the stem and internals, is not a knock off. It's its own thing."

"I know what a knock-off is. Trust me, I have tons of experience with things that are completely different to chinese switch knockoffs"

It IS /r/mechanicalkeybaords, which might as well be ripster's cult following.

Very true and there are a ton of armchair "keyboard scientists" who make claims without actually backing them up with evidence.  I'm just amazed that they think they can eyeball something and say it's good quality plastic and they know it's not a cheap knock off because they're Chinese.  I've seen enough Chinese stuff to know that there are **** tier knock offs and their are **** tier knock offs that look high quality...then, of course, there's the decent and good stuff, but it's less common.

And their claim that it's high quality because it's Razer even though it's made by Kailh and just one of their pre-existing switches with a dye job and face lift is laughable.  It's like saying if it looks like a chicken, sounds like a chicken, and feels like a Chicken, it must be a duck because someone put a fake beak on it.

So some guy somehow get's a hold of one and defends it. He can also judge the plastic quality by looking at it. Sounds legit.

You mean you can't tell exact plastic makeup and quality just by looking at it?  And you can't tell something is quality without disassembling it, seeing how it's put together and works, and seeing what it's made with?

He did say it's a review sample and he's a "reviewer", so, yeah...

[Melvang]

Still a generic Cherry.

[BlueBär]

He did say it's a review sample and he's a "reviewer", so, yeah...

Yeah no he's not getting payed at all to say this no, you can trust him, like totally.

[Charizard^]

He did say it's a review sample and he's a "reviewer", so, yeah...

Yeah no he's not getting payed at all to say this no, you can trust him, like totally.

Yeah, if Razer sent me a free board I would praise it and give it a 10/10.
 It could mean more free stuff.

[inteli722]

He did say it's a review sample and he's a "reviewer", so, yeah...

Yeah no he's not getting payed at all to say this no, you can trust him, like totally.

Yeah, if Razer sent me a free board I would praise it and give it a 10/10 if it meant more free stuff.

Ya know, if he were a reviewer, he probably would've linked to his own website for some blatant self-promotion and to prove he wasn't lying.

He's lying.

[bueller]

I love how he tries to justify that it's not a cheap knock off, what a moron. If it isn't made by Cherry and it has MX stems then it's a knock off, I don't give a **** how good a job they did.

[Charizard^]

He did say it's a review sample and he's a "reviewer", so, yeah...

Yeah no he's not getting payed at all to say this no, you can trust him, like totally.

Yeah, if Razer sent me a free board I would praise it and give it a 10/10 if it meant more free stuff.

Ya know, if he were a reviewer, he probably would've linked to his own website for some blatant self-promotion and to prove he wasn't lying.

He's lying.

I was wondering why I had never heard the name.... Have the boards even shipped yet though?

[BlueBär]

I was wondering why I had never heard the name.... Have the boards even shipped yet though?

Nope. They will on the 14th.

[pichu23]

Well apparently Razer is allowing other companies to use "their" switch. So anyone wants to try to get hold of some ?

https://twitter.com/minliangtan/status/441949205800554497

[jacobolus]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

[bueller]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

It's possible, but honestly I can't see Kailh spending money to tighten up the tolerances on their equipment just for Razer. Can almost guarantee these are straight off the standard production line with a different stem and possibly a different spring.

[Pacifist]

Well apparently Razer is allowing other companies to use "their" switch. So anyone wants to try to get hold of some ?

https://twitter.com/minliangtan/status/441949205800554497

mk.com should get us some

[Melvang]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

It's possible, but honestly I can't see Kailh spending money to tighten up the tolerances on their equipment just for Razer. Can almost guarantee these are straight off the standard production line with a different stem and possibly a different spring.

Re-tooling cost for this level of production would cost at least multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Depending on how loose they were to how tight tolerances are wanting to be kept I could potentially see it costing millions.  I install this type of equipment for a living.  Plus this would be in addition to lost production time from a multiple month/year project to swap out that much equipment. 

My conclusion, it is the same switch with different colored sliders and a different logo on the switch top.

[bueller]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

It's possible, but honestly I can't see Kailh spending money to tighten up the tolerances on their equipment just for Razer. Can almost guarantee these are straight off the standard production line with a different stem and possibly a different spring.

Re-tooling cost for this level of production would cost at least multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Depending on how loose they were to how tight tolerances are wanting to be kept I could potentially see it costing millions.  I install this type of equipment for a living.  Plus this would be in addition to lost production time from a multiple month/year project to swap out that much equipment. 

My conclusion, it is the same switch with different colored sliders and a different logo on the switch top.

That's what I was thinking, people always underestimate the cost of changing even the smallest aspect of a production line. It's not like there is some guy just dropping the stems in by hand.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

It's possible, but honestly I can't see Kailh spending money to tighten up the tolerances on their equipment just for Razer. Can almost guarantee these are straight off the standard production line with a different stem and possibly a different spring.

Re-tooling cost for this level of production would cost at least multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Depending on how loose they were to how tight tolerances are wanting to be kept I could potentially see it costing millions.  I install this type of equipment for a living.  Plus this would be in addition to lost production time from a multiple month/year project to swap out that much equipment. 

My conclusion, it is the same switch with different colored sliders and a different logo on the switch top.

That's what I was thinking, people always underestimate the cost of changing even the smallest aspect of a production line. It's not like there is some guy just dropping the stems in by hand.

I concur, most people can't trust Razer, for good reason.

The last time I saw them develop something original, was the Razer Orbweaver.

At least that was decently made, but it was a original design too

[Melvang]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

It's possible, but honestly I can't see Kailh spending money to tighten up the tolerances on their equipment just for Razer. Can almost guarantee these are straight off the standard production line with a different stem and possibly a different spring.

Re-tooling cost for this level of production would cost at least multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Depending on how loose they were to how tight tolerances are wanting to be kept I could potentially see it costing millions.  I install this type of equipment for a living.  Plus this would be in addition to lost production time from a multiple month/year project to swap out that much equipment. 

My conclusion, it is the same switch with different colored sliders and a different logo on the switch top.

That's what I was thinking, people always underestimate the cost of changing even the smallest aspect of a production line. It's not like there is some guy just dropping the stems in by hand.

I concur, most people can't trust Razer, for good reason.

The last time I saw them develop something original, was the Razer Orbweaver.

At least that was decently made, but it was a original design too

The Orbweaver was not an original design.  It was after the Nostromo which was basically bought from Belkin who had the n52 and the later n52TE.

[Pacifist]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

It's possible, but honestly I can't see Kailh spending money to tighten up the tolerances on their equipment just for Razer. Can almost guarantee these are straight off the standard production line with a different stem and possibly a different spring.

Re-tooling cost for this level of production would cost at least multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Depending on how loose they were to how tight tolerances are wanting to be kept I could potentially see it costing millions.  I install this type of equipment for a living.  Plus this would be in addition to lost production time from a multiple month/year project to swap out that much equipment. 

My conclusion, it is the same switch with different colored sliders and a different logo on the switch top.

That's what I was thinking, people always underestimate the cost of changing even the smallest aspect of a production line. It's not like there is some guy just dropping the stems in by hand.

I concur, most people can't trust Razer, for good reason.

The last time I saw them develop something original, was the Razer Orbweaver.

At least that was decently made, but it was a original design too

Orbweaver was a copy and still very cheap quality.

[Melvang]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

It's possible, but honestly I can't see Kailh spending money to tighten up the tolerances on their equipment just for Razer. Can almost guarantee these are straight off the standard production line with a different stem and possibly a different spring.

Re-tooling cost for this level of production would cost at least multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Depending on how loose they were to how tight tolerances are wanting to be kept I could potentially see it costing millions.  I install this type of equipment for a living.  Plus this would be in addition to lost production time from a multiple month/year project to swap out that much equipment. 

My conclusion, it is the same switch with different colored sliders and a different logo on the switch top.

That's what I was thinking, people always underestimate the cost of changing even the smallest aspect of a production line. It's not like there is some guy just dropping the stems in by hand.

I concur, most people can't trust Razer, for good reason.

The last time I saw them develop something original, was the Razer Orbweaver.

At least that was decently made, but it was a original design too

Orbweaver was a copy and still very cheap quality.

Had they kept the HAT switch and the spacebar thumb button from the Nostromo and gotten rid of the plastic skirt under the key caps to allow for any MX cap to be used it would have been a much better product.  I am just not fond of the current HAT switch and the switch on the space bar feels like a cheap mouse button.  Other than that I actually like mine for MMO's and FPS.

[FoxWolf1]

Isn’t it possible that Razer contracted Kailh to make a different switch for them, with different characteristics than previous Kailh switches, and potentially with tighter tolerances & better Q/A?

I don’t see how anyone can know that the switch is garbage without trying it or taking it apart and looking at the insides.

Yes, sure, it’s a “knock off”, but MX switches are 30 years old now, so making a solid-quality imitation doesn’t necessarily take the best engineering and manufacturing geniuses of the world. I can definitely imagine a switch with some slight changes to the slider which would be an improvement over the existing Cherry MX switches (which I personally don’t like, but whatever).

It's possible, but honestly I can't see Kailh spending money to tighten up the tolerances on their equipment just for Razer. Can almost guarantee these are straight off the standard production line with a different stem and possibly a different spring.

Re-tooling cost for this level of production would cost at least multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Depending on how loose they were to how tight tolerances are wanting to be kept I could potentially see it costing millions.  I install this type of equipment for a living.  Plus this would be in addition to lost production time from a multiple month/year project to swap out that much equipment. 

My conclusion, it is the same switch with different colored sliders and a different logo on the switch top.

That's what I was thinking, people always underestimate the cost of changing even the smallest aspect of a production line. It's not like there is some guy just dropping the stems in by hand.

Razer are not the only one claiming a shorter distance to activation for Kailhs, though. Max Keyboard claim to have Kailhs with 1.4mm to activation.

Of course, this could just be nonsense as well.