Input Club K Type Thread

[thelaughingman]

So, what should we do with the K Type to make it better suited to your desires?

Honestly, right now, it's just completely wrong for me. Everything would have to be changed-- form factor, materials, feature set, switch technology, etc.

Having to use a separate number pad is an instant deal-breaker to me. Non-negotiable.

Aluminum isn't worth anything to me. It's just "that crappy stuff I've had on Apple products that looks harsh, feels cold, dents easily, and is always getting sharp edges and corners as it gets banged up". Good plastic is nice. Wood is nicer (not for the plate, though; that should be steel).

Programmability is useless to me without some extra keys to program. If I have to switch layers to use a macro, or stretch my hand to hold down a modifier key, which will then also affect whatever other keys I happen to be holding down at the same time, it might as well not exist. And I'm definitely not going to compromise regular use by binding over the normal functionality of a standard key.

For all the talk about tolerances and manufacturing techniques, I don't see mention of the attributes I'd need to feel comfortable investing in a $200 keyboard, like waterproofing and dustproofing. If you're going to charge twice what I paid for my Hall effect board, you don't also get to ask that I give up coffee for the 12+ hours a day I'm at the keyboard. Hot-swap sockets mean that chattering switches can be replaced (at the cost of buying a new switch), but this is 2017, where, for well under $100, you can get an optical-switch keyboard that's immune to chatter in the first place (and waterproof, and dustproof, and supports stem swapping).

Seems like there's a lot of hype behind these "Halo" switches, but, mechanically speaking, they're still based on the MX design. They're not BS, or ALPS, or any of the various non-contact types. That's fine, if your product is cheap and/or has plenty of other reason to exist. So far, I'm not seeing that here.

So, to each their own then I suppose LOL

[dante]

So, to each their own then I suppose LOL

I understand what FoxWolf1 is saying:  With the exception of buckling springs, capacitive membrane, Optical, and Hall Effect, etc... the whole "50,000,000" key press spec is a bunch of bullcrap.  Maybe in a nice sterile clean laboratory where a robot carefully depresses the switch repeatedly but not in the real world.

[TelFiRE]

Who's going to keep a keyboard so long a switch fails? It's always baffled me that people are so concerned with that number. Aside from the fact that it's under $1 to replace if it does happen, it just seems unlikely that a switch would fail before something else like a PCB.

[saulysw]

Hi all,

This seems like a good as place as any to ask some things about this keyboard, as I am quite interested in it. For reference, I am a fairly avid Model-M user and that has been my daily driver for work and home for many years. The primary issue I have with the M is the noise (obviously!) and perhaps the space and slightly stiff keys. I am a big fan of its durability and simple enduring design. Anyway, coming from this keyboard I have these questions about the k-type (which btw, is a name that does not search well).

• Swap sockets & spills? I wonder how the keyboard would cope with a coke being spilt all over it. That is more likely to me than swapping the switches.
• Key feel? How does this compare, and I know it is highly subjective, to buckling springs? I enjoy the graphs, but am not 100% sure how this translates to feel. It looks like a lighter keyboard, with a softer bottoming out, but I could be wrong? Less of a click?
• Key graphics? Again, comparing it to the Model-M, the symbol/numeric keys have the two options in a vertical arrangement, with the shift version above. In some pictures I have seen this keyboard with the same style, I think, but in others it is in the top justified side-by-side style. I prefer the vertical arrangement myself, is this an option?
• Dirt and Wear? The beige plastic of the model-M, again, does a pretty good job of hiding dirt and wear. Mine is from 1985 and still does not have the shine that a ****ty $20 keyboard gets after about 2 years of use. My question is how well the K-type will wear, and how that lighter plastic will show dirt/fluff that inevitably gets on any keyboard over time. The backlighting might even make seeing this dirt worse, I'm not sure, never used a keybaord with this feature.
• No numeric keypad? This is a fairly big one for me. I'm pretty used to the numeric keypad but in truth don't use it all that often. I might get used to 10 keyless but then again, it might always feel like I have something missing. Anyway, are there any plans for a full sized variant? I did read some sort of snap on numeric keyboard, is that right? Where is that at?
• No USB hub? I know opinions vary, but I think using USB-C is a forward thinking choice. What I am less happy with is the lack of USB hub for the second port. This seems a lost opportunity, as plugging in a mouse would make sense. I suppose then a question would be if there was a plan to put a hub in, or will it always be just pass-though power?
• Noise? I almost forgot this one! How noisy are the new switches. There is an obsession with the key weight, but noise volume is fairly critical too! Of course, it partly depends on how hard you hit the key...

Sorry for the wall of text, but you know, sometimes there is a bit to say! Feel free to comment on any item in the list, you don't have to tackle them all if you don't feel like it!

Hey thanks for the questions!

1) Spills are just like any other mechanical keyboard, if you spill something on it, most likely it will need to be unplugged immediately and cleaned with soap + water, luckily since it is hot swap if you DO spill something on it, it would be relatively easy to pull all the switches and take it apart to clean it.

2) Before I fully answer, neither of the Halo switches will feel like a buckling spring. The Halo True switches have a lighter actuation point than the Halo Clear but the bottom out force is a lot higher. The benefit to this is that it helps give you a "cushion" under your finger to help prevent bottoming out of the switches.

3) The symbols are placed at the top of the keycap because that is where the light pipe is. If you have one legend at the bottom or middle of the keycap and one at the top, only the one at the top will light up.

4) The keycaps are made with PBT plastic so they will be very resistant to the shineyness that plague most keyboard keycaps.

5) A lot of people use the numpad because they just never learned to use the numbers at the top row while typing (like myself) and that is why they keep it. When I switched to a 60% board (no f1-f12, no numpad, no navpad) it was a little weird at first but it only took me a day or two to get used to it. I would say that if you type in numbers sparingly you probably won't notice any negative effects by not having the numpad. Your mouse will also be closer to your keyboard without the numpad so you don't have to twist your torso so much to either use the mouse or type (depending on how you have the keyboard and mouse positioned)

6) USB Hub has been asked a lot, we wanted to add one, but it was going to take even more time and would have increased the cost of the keyboard by too much to do it the right way.

7) The new switches are probably about as loud as other MX compatible tactile switches. If you go with the Halo True variety and you do not bottom out they could be even quieter (or you can add o-rings).

I hope I've answered all your questions!

Thank you for your response. Appreciated.

[Elrick]

Maybe in a nice sterile clean laboratory where a robot carefully depresses the switch repeatedly but not in the real world.

Of course not, when it comes to millennials and their keyboard usage, the manufacturers really need to seal off all the keyboard's internals from their never ending sweat, booze and semen  .

[dante]

Who's going to keep a keyboard so long a switch fails? It's always baffled me that people are so concerned with that number. Aside from the fact that it's under $1 to replace if it does happen, it just seems unlikely that a switch would fail before something else like a PCB.

Nobody will because they will RMA it.  Why do you think Optical and Kailh Box switches are becoming more relevant?  Because in a saturated market the only other thing they can save money on now besides moving production to China is decreasing RMA's.

[tuxkey]

so i returned my K-type with Halo-True switches for a full refund.
it was a hard decision as i really wanted to like this keyboard and have bin following the k-type project for over 2jrs.

i payed in total $267 for this board that’s with $10 shipping and the reset was customs fees.
My switch choice was Halo-True.

So why did i return the keyboard after longing for it and waiting for two years or even longer..
it was my birthday gift last july..

1) Stabilizers.
They are a hot mess and quite frankly suck. But that was easily replaced and MD wanted to cut me a deal to pay for them myself.
Still having paid that much for a keyboard the last thing i would expect is having to source sum lube and stabs.

2) coil wine.
Yes while the led’s were one i heard a faint coil wine irritating and having experienced this on my monitor when i dimm the
screen i knew that time would not be kind to this problem. In other words it could only get worse not better with the
passage of time.

3) people reaching out to me with problems on the MD forum horror stories about the board doing strange things.
Like key presses that suddenly magically appeared.
i had other problems like having to reset the light going from a Miami/rainbow effect to a solid color was no problem.
but switching to a second solid color and then wanting to go back to a rainbow lighting effect would not always work.
I needed to hit fn+1 to reset the lighting and then i was ok.. first of i thought unplugging was needed.


4) simple programming was no problem, but trying to get more features / in depth took more time then with my HASU TMK controller.


TMK examples;

This example gives me a second key for often used keys. keeping my hands in the middle of the keyboard very handy.
spacebar is level4 ; (ACTION_LAYER_TAP_KEY)
giving me ; f=backspace,j=enter,h=backslash en pipe,g=forwardSlash and ?


This example is also one of my favourites more so than i would have thought it would be. Giving me one hit shift.
so press it and temporarily be in uppercase or a character that was accessible true the shift.
This reduced finger gymnastics by a lot.
R-shift; on level 0; ACTION LAYER MODS ; Layer1 R-shift; Action Apply ;; Change to Layer1 with Right-Shift



Accomplishing the same programming took more time that i did not have alas. That’s more my fault than the keyboard
i would have liked being able to flash TMK on it or perhaps QMK if that’s the same..
I’m used to HASU’s web tool so that would have saved me a ton of time in the long run just learning one way to do it..

Most important the lighting programming had bling but no functionality as of yet.
I wanted to see CapsLock change color preferably other keys as well.
Not having to lift my hand to see if the CapsLock light is on because the corner key is also turned on would have bin awesome,
 and show me that this board is not only for kids wanting bling,bling but also real productivity people like myself (don’t do gaming at al)..

And lastly i noticed i preferred my FC660C/M layout a bit bigger accommodating a standard key cap set would have bin all i needed.
So TKL was a waist of deskspace.

The aesthetics of the board were ok just ok not mind blowing good i prefer a high profile case looks cleaner and better to me.
Like the Kira, but the angle on that board worries me because bending your wrists for 8+ hours a day like that is not ergonomic..
but would have to try it to really say.

Also both the WhiteFox and the K-type suffer from pinging so a high profile small case would possibly aid in that problem.
i would want to see more space left in the case so i can stick some dampening material inside it..
(the stuff car audiofiles use to kill road noise black 1mm thin/thick cheats you can stik on the inside..
you need at least 80% coverage for it to work..

But what do i like about the K-type??

The switches are really really good.. i would even go so far as to say i like them more then my Topre and mx-clear board..!
And that’s the highest praise i can give them

The new Hako true and Hako clear switch got me even more curios.
But i having read people complaining about Kailh switches not being consistent in several departments worries me a bit.
i know Kailh promised they would look in to this but i’m just done reading a review from someone that bought them last sept.






So final verdict..
it’s a good first try and it’s 80% there for me..

i love that IC is going it alone now.. and the NightFox looks great ..No cheap cable on that unlike what MD did with the K-type.
Make it a high profile case. give it a Vanilla layout so spacebar 3keys on each side + arrow cluster.
And give it one color Led’s for those late night typing sessions and i’m in..

Perhaps this is all to much to ask and i need to join a custom GB hahah ...
But i do like what Haata is doing with the switches.. Just ad a bit of refinement and the options i want / need..

Good Luck with the store IC...
btw i asked a EU vendor to keep me informed if and when IC hardware becomes available to us overhere ..
i’m happy that we have a nice store like Mykeyboard.eu that’s doing GB buys and is active in the community ..

[oldcat]

Wonder if I should buy whitefox now that I have K type