Now this is rather interesting! Time to do some research on this mod even before I consider participating :DSimply put, it creates a short travel Clear.
Now this is rather interesting! Time to do some research on this mod even before I consider participating :DSimply put, it creates a short travel Clear.
To get Ergo Clear, you have to trim the springs to bring spring pressures down, which is how I run them.
That shortens the overall travel, it does nothing to raise the activation point, which is what this does. Your switches/keys take about 4mm of travel to actuate, Jailhouse Blues require less than 2mm. O-rings only come into effect after the switch actuates.Now this is rather interesting! Time to do some research on this mod even before I consider participating :DSimply put, it creates a short travel Clear.
To get Ergo Clear, you have to trim the springs to bring spring pressures down, which is how I run them.
Oh, thank you for the information. I guess I can just throw in o-rings into my Clears to get a similar feeling :P
That shortens the overall travel, it does nothing to raise the activation point, which is what this does. Your switches/keys take about 4mm of travel to actuate, Jailhouse Blues require less than 2mm. O-rings only come into effect after the switch actuates.
To organise collateral, i think they should pay the value of the board into your PayPal account and that money is returned once the board has arrived at its next destination. If you both gift then it will be free.
Have you photographed the glued Blues with Clears and/or Browns side-by-side? I'm curious how similar it becomes to Clears.If you glue the white part of Blues about 3/4's of the way up, the actuation point would be the same as any other Cherry switch, including Clears.
I wanna know how they sound!!!!Same as a Clear.
Surprisingly, they do not feel particularly light, I was expecting a feather touch. They are not overly heavy, but more resistant than I was expecting.Unless you cut the springs, you end up with an 80gram actuation, and these were not cut. Cutting 2() coils off the end brings it down to normal blue/red/brown pressures.
Shortening the distance to actuate is a cool idea.
Never thought of actually modding the stems.
Unless you cut the springs, you end up with an 80gram actuation, and these were not cut. Cutting 2() coils off the end brings it down to normal blue/red/brown pressures.
Eek, sorry to hear about the crashes. I wonder if it has something to do with the malfunctioning F4 (probably from my poor soldering work.) I know some combinations of Ctrl/Alt/F4 will close stuff, and even open up a prompt to shut down windows. I might have to have to postpone the tour while I fix it if the next person has these issues as well.
No, the plunger is the key.
Unless you cut the springs, you end up with an 80gram actuation, and these were not cut. Cutting 2() coils off the end brings it down to normal blue/red/brown pressures.
Ahh. I would want that, too. This is not a trivial mod, but one that might ultimately be worth it.
And in comparison to clears, it is the high activation point that could not be achieved without the help of that white piece on the plunger?
hmm....
as the first tester I also had some random issues hot plugging the board, at that time I thought it was just my computer acting up so I didnt really take note of it.
I remember I plugged it into the USB port while my computer was locked, first few attempts the computer didnt pick up the device, and once it picked it up it was behaving very strangely. Some keys would work but a few keys when pressed would output a bunch of random characters. I eventually got it to work just by replugging it, and once it worked it continued to work just fine. So I still think it's probably the computer fault? Not sure.
Good to read other people's thoughts on the board, and onto the next person we go! ;D
Challenge accepted. ;D
I'm working on the review now, but I am sorry to say that I too had issues with the keyboard. Specifically, it's Row 4 that has problems and it did cause my computer to reboot. :'(
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Good deal.
Jailhouse blues are wicked bad.
Awesome! I've got some nice light soft white "cloth" that my IKEA Expedit shelving was wrapped into to wrap the keyboard into as well, under bubble wrap (if that's what you're using).
Am I next in line? And is it ok if I just write out the address since I don't have a printer?
Ah ok, I thought I was still in line after mashby. That is fine. Thanks! And I don't ship things too often so I still go to the post office...so old school I know :P
Man, I forgot how time consuming it was to mod regular blues into JH Blues...haha.That is one very big downside to them.
Man, I forgot how time consuming it was to mod regular blues into JH Blues...haha.That is one very big downside to them.
I was lucky in that I developed them and the spring tensions on a board without a plate, got them all working and tested, before putting them into a Filco. I would have gone insane and more than likely destroyed the board before I finished them had I needed to unsolder every time I changed something.
Some of you workbench jockeys need to come up with a standard price for doing this. These are HIGHLY DESIRABLE switches, and I dislike blues!Other than possibly having to de-solder, it's not a difficult process, just fickle and time consuming.
I may have found a MUCH easier way to do this though, I will do some testing tonight.
I may have found a MUCH easier way to do this though, I will do some testing tonight.
I tried to print out clips to do the JB mod, but so far, they have yet to function. It's such a small part and accuracy needs to be quite high. Hopefully, I can get it right at some point.
Wouldn't little "U" shaped pieces of just the right wire, which could be crimped a bit to stay in place, be easiest and most reliable?That was the first thing I tried.
Which keycaps are on this keyboard, by the way? Standard thickness ABS? Or are they thin PBT? I've never seen PBT in person, so I can't tell :(
Which keycaps are on this keyboard, by the way? Standard thickness ABS? Or are they thin PBT? I've never seen PBT in person, so I can't tell :(
They're lasered PBT.
Wouldn't little "U" shaped pieces of just the right wire, which could be crimped a bit to stay in place, be easiest and most reliable?That was the first thing I tried.
The problem with that is that the right size wire is too thick as it passes the spring, so the spring catches and makes the switch feel notchy and inconsistent. The way we have been doing it was to push the spring down, it stiffens it, but at least it's consistent. In my case, I then trimmed the springs down to lower the spring rate back to normal after.
If I can get the clips to print properly, they would just snap on, and would clear the spring entirely. So far, I haven't been able to get the accuracy high enough.
If there is any costs involved in developing them that I could help with shoot me a PM.Thanks, it's ust a matter of getting the printer setup right... I think.
If there is any costs involved in developing them that I could help with shoot me a PM.Thanks, it's ust a matter of getting the printer setup right... I think.
The clips themselves are easy enough, I already have the files, so once I can get them to print good, I can print them 60 at a time or something. They use so little plastic, a 2 pound roll would probably last for 500 keyboards.
If there is any costs involved in developing them that I could help with shoot me a PM.Thanks, it's ust a matter of getting the printer setup right... I think.
The clips themselves are easy enough, I already have the files, so once I can get them to print good, I can print them 60 at a time or something. They use so little plastic, a 2 pound roll would probably last for 500 keyboards.
As a quick note, this magical keyboard has gotten a face-lift in the form of case paint.
As a quick note, this magical keyboard has gotten a face-lift in the form of case paint. If people on the tour list would please be mindful of not jabbing the case with anything sharp, including nails, I have confidence that the keyboard can make it to its original owner without any damage :) (On a personal note--Rust-Oleum's paint+primer line takes forever to dry vs. other kinds I've used, which surprised me. Hence why I'm asking for some gingerly handling--just in case :) )
"Aged copper"Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/et650Xv.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JfFmUtl.jpg)
I'll add my typing impressions tonight or tomorrow and will try to do a sound recording of how the switches sound vs Browns, Clears, and MX Black).
Just remind me, no sanding or anything just spraying it down right?
I would be very interested in this. I have sorely missed that tour keyboard.I'm not sure what ghetto jailhouse would be. LOL
I was already planning on turning my KBT Pure with MX-Blues into Ghetto Greens, but I've decided I find the pitch of the click just too irritating. So I'm thinking of making them Jailhouse Ghetto Greens, or is it Ghetto Jailhouse?
Regardless, I'm not in any rush because I'll be waiting until I get my Pure plate from the GH60 group buy, but if you get some created, I'd love to buy a set from you.
It's tougher and snappier than rubber domes but has a thicker and heavier feel than clean, crisp, and lighter normal MX Blues. The sound from the keyboard is dampened, and some switches still make a faint clicking sound--many don't. The hint of a click is there with most keys when typing.
{cut}
Clears are supposed to click? o.o I know my 4 test Clear switches have a bit of a clanky clicky sound, but it's not the same click of MX Blues or Jailhouse Blues. I thought only Blues/Whites/Greens are clicky.Clears click, they have a larger tactile bump than browns or blues.
I've been thinking: why not just use lighter springs instead of cutting the existing springs? Something like 55g Korean springs, or maybe even 45g?
The jailhouse mod ramps up spring pressured by 30 grams. Unless you find something like a 30gram spring, you won't get close to a stock light Cherry spring.
The board came safe and sound. Typing on it now. I'll have a review up later this week. Also, TheBinary is next in line and I can drop it off to him in person. I hope you don't mind me doing a handoff like that khaangaarroo.
Also, this board looks nice but smells pretty bad. Nice job on the paint though Photoelectric :D
Edit: Someone also has incredibly nice handwriting. Who wrote these sticky notes?
The white part shouldn't smack the bottom of the switch much if at all, so noise from it should be minimal at most so long as you fill up the space as much as you can.
I think it's not so much about how loud it is, but more about consistency between all the switches. Even a tiny bit of looseness in the spacer can make the difference between no sound and a faint click sound. Many people along the tour have already noticed more clicking in a several keys than the rest. There's a very fine line between too thin and too thick when cutting the spacers by hand.
I've been typing on my new board with Blues for the past week, and I've really grown to like Blues a LOT! Now I wish I could have exactly Blues, minus the loud click, plus a very faint click instead! I'm still going to convert them to Jailhouse Blues--just giving some props to standard Blues in the meantime :)
But I'll play with the Blues to see what feels / sounds good. Does thinner wire makes the click fainter and restricts the movement less? I.e. can you get a degree of "Jailhouse Blueness" by varying wire gauge / height of the blocking pieces?
...I know many of us here would go crazy with even with one key not clicking exactly like the rest haha.
Final Thoughts
If I tried this switch instead of MX Browns at first, I would’ve loved these and their tactile bump. However, the short-throw throws me off and I couldn’t get used to them. I won’t be making any of these switches. But, it was amazing to get to try a custom mdoded switch like this. Thanks for making this board khaangaroo. And thank you for putting the board on tour! And shoutouts to LeslieAnn who seems to be helping to refine this switch/mod.
If the spacers are cut too thick, once they're wedged in there, they can make the white piece bow outwards and rub against the side of the switch housing. It has nothing to do with springs being uncut. It's just me making spacers in a hurry and not caring if they're all perfect.I didn't mean the uncut springs were causing it, I said if it's sluggish with uncut springs, it means something is definitely rubbing, which you just confirmed.
If the spacers are cut too thick, once they're wedged in there, they can make the white piece bow outwards and rub against the side of the switch housing. It has nothing to do with springs being uncut. It's just me making spacers in a hurry and not caring if they're all perfect.I didn't mean the uncut springs were causing it, I said if it's sluggish with uncut springs, it means something is definitely rubbing, which you just confirmed.
If mine rubs at all, my keys will stick because the springs are so lightweight.
If you can get them to work with zip ties, we should call them zippy blues :P
Sorry, I misread your comment. I got carried away when I thought you trying to be judgmental of the method I used and condescending of the little time I spent putting the board together.No, every method takes time.
MX 4mm travel 2mm actuation
ML 3mm travel 1.5mm actuationThe cable ties are definitely a good option, but they do require cutting lengthwise to be even narrower
Saw this thread (http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/o-ring-2-o-t6118.html) on Deskthority today. Jmneuv used a hole punch to create a plug to insert into the bottom of the of the switch housing and immediately thought of this thread. Jmneuv's goal was to replicate the experience of O-Rings, but given that it makes the throw shorter, I thought it might be of interest.That will shorten the overall travel, just like o-rings, but it doesn't raise/shorten the actuation point which is the goal of Jailhouse Blues.
Granted, this method doesn't remove the click, but it might spawn some other ideas from you clever hackers. ;D
im pretty sure the activation stays the same.... have you had the board yet?Saw this thread (http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/o-ring-2-o-t6118.html) on Deskthority today. Jmneuv used a hole punch to create a plug to insert into the bottom of the of the switch housing and immediately thought of this thread. Jmneuv's goal was to replicate the experience of O-Rings, but given that it makes the throw shorter, I thought it might be of interest.That will shorten the overall travel, just like o-rings, but it doesn't raise/shorten the actuation point which is the goal of Jailhouse Blues.
Granted, this method doesn't remove the click, but it might spawn some other ideas from you clever hackers. ;D
On the other hand, it is a great way to get o-rings for SP keysets or people who change keycaps a lot and use o-rings, as you wouldn't need to fiddle with them each time.
im pretty sure the activation stays the same.... have you had the board yet?Saw this thread (http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/o-ring-2-o-t6118.html) on Deskthority today. Jmneuv used a hole punch to create a plug to insert into the bottom of the of the switch housing and immediately thought of this thread. Jmneuv's goal was to replicate the experience of O-Rings, but given that it makes the throw shorter, I thought it might be of interest.That will shorten the overall travel, just like o-rings, but it doesn't raise/shorten the actuation point which is the goal of Jailhouse Blues.
Granted, this method doesn't remove the click, but it might spawn some other ideas from you clever hackers. ;D
On the other hand, it is a great way to get o-rings for SP keysets or people who change keycaps a lot and use o-rings, as you wouldn't need to fiddle with them each time.
derp I'm stupid.. it just doesnt feel like the actuation is changed at all :/im pretty sure the activation stays the same.... have you had the board yet?Saw this thread (http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/o-ring-2-o-t6118.html) on Deskthority today. Jmneuv used a hole punch to create a plug to insert into the bottom of the of the switch housing and immediately thought of this thread. Jmneuv's goal was to replicate the experience of O-Rings, but given that it makes the throw shorter, I thought it might be of interest.That will shorten the overall travel, just like o-rings, but it doesn't raise/shorten the actuation point which is the goal of Jailhouse Blues.
Granted, this method doesn't remove the click, but it might spawn some other ideas from you clever hackers. ;D
On the other hand, it is a great way to get o-rings for SP keysets or people who change keycaps a lot and use o-rings, as you wouldn't need to fiddle with them each time.
Pretty sure Leslieann was the inventor of Jail House blues.....
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38091.0
I'm in the process of making JBs out of my Filco's Blues. One thing I've noticed when using o-rings is that you can make 2 types of JBs: clicky and non-clicky. If you hide the entire cut of o-ring around the stem closely, the white piece and blue piece can move with respect to each other, and a strong click remains (but action is still shortened). If you keep the o-ring sticking out on both sides, between the white and the blue parts, the click is nonexistent and the action is the shortest. I decided to go with the latter. The o-ring can only stick out up to the vertical boundaries of the stem, as any farther, and it will rub against the housing and make the switch mushy.
Is there anything holding the cut O-rings in place, long-term?Hope and prayers.
Is there anything holding the cut O-rings in place, long-term?Hope and prayers.
TBH can't say I'm loving the jailhouses so far...
My Review of the Jailhouse Blue QFR:Thank you for this review, I think I'm going to make a few jailhouse blues for myself, the quietness plus the ergo clear like feel is a great turn on. Plus it doesn't have the thick stems that clears have which will be so nice. Now to source a bunch of blues ;DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/5MNBjxt.jpg)
A cheeky little modification to the QFR box.
I’m not sure if it was by coincidence or by planning, but both khaangaaroo (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40193.msg795624#msg795624) and Leslieann (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38091.0) both came up with this mod in a three month span. At first I was a little worried that this would be a custom mod that I could never try unless I met these two GHers. I’m always trying to get my hands on new switches and boards. Luckily this tour allowed me to try these switches out so this was a really cool experience. Just as a reference, I don’t like MX Browns and love MX Blues. Keep that in mind as you read this; I am definitely biased.
The board is a modded QFR. Since everyone and their mom has posted a billion reviews/pictures/threads/videos/soundbytes/mods on the QFR, I think it’s safe to say I don’t need to write a full review on it. I will say that that rubber coating on QFRs was a real turn off for me but this case top that Photoelectric sprayed up was lovely. The only issue with this Jailhouse Blue QFR is that it REEKED for two days. It was so powerful on my first day of testing it that I had to put it away after a few hours of use. But by the end of my testing time, it didn’t smell and I appreciated the lovely gold-ish metallic color. And for what it’s worth, khaangaroo did a great job fixing the board after mashby had it. The board did not cause my computer to reboot at all.
Typing on this keyboard
The very first thing I noticed when I started typing was that the bottom out was so shallow compared to what I’m used to. It seemed like it was even shallower than 50A-R o-rings. Bottoming out felt sudden; it wasn’t like the bottom out on a Chiclet or scissors but it still was too quick for me. I’m very used to the standard MX stroke when I type and the sudden change confused me. I had the same issue when I was typing with o-rings; they felt nice but the change in travel distance was too much for me.
Quickly after this first realization, I figured out that this was the quietest mechanical keyboard I’ve ever typed on. Even the HHKB I tried wasn’t this quiet. The Matias quiet switches were pretty close but if your primary concern is the sound of your board, you might want to consider this mod/switch.
Actuation force on the switches was very nice since the switches are MX Blues after all. Like I said I’m super biased and those are my favorite switches. But if I had to compare them to an MX switch, I would say that they felt like Browns. These switches were everything Browns should be besides being short throw. My notes say that they feel like sharper, bumpier Browns. In a better explanation, when you press down, there’s the initial engagement that Blues have. It’s a sharp little ramp. But instead of a click at actuation, the Jailhouse Blues have lovely tactile bump that is what I’d call a medium tactile bump. The Browns have a light tactile bump, Jailhouse Blues a medium, and Clears a heavy bump. They don’t depress into a click, but instead, feels solid and then have the bump, quickly followed by a bottom out. The travel is maybe half of the MX travel; like I said before, it felt like o-rings were installed in the board.
The other thing I noticed that bothered me is that some of the mods felt sticky. Kind of like how they were ergo-clears with springs that were too weak. They’d just feel gummy and didn’t rebound all the way like my boards do. I’m not sure if that’s because of the mods or if it’s just how the switch is.
Also I don’t like thin PBT caps at all. They reminded me of the WASD thin ABS caps which I didn’t like at all.
Final Thoughts
If I tried this switch instead of MX Browns at first, I would’ve loved these and their tactile bump. However, the short-throw throws me off and I couldn’t get used to them. I won’t be making any of these switches. But, it was amazing to get to try a custom mdoded switch like this. Thanks for making this board khaangaroo. And thank you for putting the board on tour! And shoutouts to LeslieAnn who seems to be helping to refine this switch/mod.