[IC] full PBT (spacebar included), gray or beige set

[DamienG]

Is the ISO return going to be DSA or DCS?  (Was DCS in the retro set as they didn't have the molds... I'm doubting anything has changed since then but I didn't see a note on this thread)

[)amien

[Matt3o]

Yes, unfortunately ISO will be DCS. It goes quite well with DSA, but of course it's not 100% match.

[pasph]

One one hand, I dunno if it would be wise to put this completely in SP's hands before Macross is over and done with.
Not to mention the hit to visibility it would get in SP's vendor forum.

On the other hand, I dunno if the 'old way' is worth the hassle and the possible premium.

Dammit, I just want the keys!
Also, I don't wanna make it seem like I've jumped on the anti-SP bandwagon.

Just voicing my concerns, is all.

^This^

[Matt3o]

First of all. I'm not going to give this GB to SP until they fixed the last few things on the order system (eg: possibility to check the full order history)

[skuko]

One one hand, I dunno if it would be wise to put this completely in SP's hands before Macross is over and done with.
Not to mention the hit to visibility it would get in SP's vendor forum.

On the other hand, I dunno if the 'old way' is worth the hassle and the possible premium.

Dammit, I just want the keys!
Also, I don't wanna make it seem like I've jumped on the anti-SP bandwagon.

Just voicing my concerns, is all.

^This^

what these guys said. would wait for macross to finish (to test SPs ability to sort/ship/support) before giving them another GB to run.

[KaLam1ty]

Damn, just noticed this IC now! Is too late to send in suggestions for the icon/nerdom set? I can probably toss in a few logo designs
floating around my Dropbox somewhere.
I assume the keycap color will be the same base color as the modifiers as well? No possibilities for red (or other) keycaps with nerdom icons on them for an esc key, is there?

[Matt3o]

No it's not too late. And we have no limits with colors but the keys are sublimated so the lighter the better

[SpAmRaY]

2) handle this directly (in collaboration with 7bit, but with a more user friendly system done by me ) and probably pay more. We are not set yet on this.

So it would be round 5.5 ?

[StylinGreymon]

So it would be round 5.5 ?

I really hope that's not how it goes down...

[ideus]

First of all. I'm not going to give this GB to SP until they fixed the last few things on the order system (eg: possibility to check the full order history)

That is wise. Some Aussies complained a lot about the order system. I am ok with it, but it is better to think in the more convenient for the community. Regarding the sets the more modular the better, in that way people can buy the options they need with no need to take keys they do not need at all. In the balance, the less options the higher orders per set.

[Matt3o]

Once again, please review carefully and report any problem. I'm linking the imgur album this time because the set has become gargantuan.

http://imgur.com/a/avBov

How do you want the windowed keys? All blanks?

[SpAmRaY]

Once again, please review carefully and report any problem. I'm linking the imgur album this time because the set has become gargantuan.

http://imgur.com/a/avBov

How do you want the windowed keys? All blanks?

I need a DSA set! This is looking good.

[DamienG]

Once again, please review carefully and report any problem. I'm linking the imgur album this time because the set has become gargantuan.

http://imgur.com/a/avBov

How do you want the windowed keys? All blanks?

Not a fan of the all-caps modifiers but the icon modifiers are awesome so I'll grab those - confused about the choice of pause icon tho!  Going to pair this one with a SPRIT PCB and clears for extra awesomeness. Looking forward to this set!

[)amien

[StylinGreymon]

I was really hoping you wouldn't split the mods and alphas.
There should always be a base kit, in my opinion.

Also, at first I thought was a mistake, but why are the RGB controls labeled as CTRL rather than CONTROL?

[DamienG]

I don't understand why a lot of people want the kits joined. It just means a lot of people end up paying for stuff they don't want.

[)amien

[StylinGreymon]

I don't understand why a lot of people want the kits joined. It just means a lot of people end up paying for stuff they don't want.

[)amien

Well, as a 60% user, that's just par for the course, for me.
When I am old and dead, my heirs are going inherit a vast warehouse full of unused Print Screen and Scroll Lock keys.

Really, I'm just a little irritated that now I'll have to probably pay a little more, and hope that enough people also want the text mods in order for me to get them, when I would have already gotten them as part of the base kit.

[Matt3o]

Not a fan of the all-caps modifiers but the icon modifiers are awesome so I'll grab those - confused about the choice of pause icon tho!  Going to pair this one with a SPRIT PCB and clears for extra awesomeness. Looking forward to this set!

I have no idea where that icon comes from and you are not the first to ask. According to some sources that would be the "official" pause icon.

I was really hoping you wouldn't split the mods and alphas.
There should always be a base kit, in my opinion.

Considering that we have symbol and text mods it seemed logical to split the base kit. A base kit would be a little more expensive, I grant you that, but if you only want symbols you are not forced to buy texts (and vice-versa).

Also, at first I thought was a mistake, but why are the RGB controls labeled as CTRL rather than CONTROL?

I'll try to have all keys with the full text, but it depends on font and keycap size. The final design will be finalized while the GB will be actually running.

[SpAmRaY]

The final design will be finalized while the GB will be actually running.

So 7bit style group buy?? 

[Matt3o]

The final design will be finalized while the GB will be actually running.

So 7bit style group buy?? 

by design I mean that I will prepare the templates that will be actually printed on the keys while the GB is running.

It will be a long process to have it perfect and I don't want to delay the GB start. SP needs the template at the end of the GB, so...

[SpAmRaY]

The final design will be finalized while the GB will be actually running.

So 7bit style group buy?? 

by design I mean that I will prepare the templates that will be actually printed on the keys while the GB is running.

It will be a long process to have it perfect and I don't want to delay the GB start. SP needs the template at the end of the GB, so...

oh ok, makes sense.

you said final design i was thinking final kits :facepalm:

[Matt3o]

oh ok, makes sense.

you said final design i was thinking final kits :facepalm:

yeah, my bad. It has been a looong day (8:30pm here).

@all

please review the "additional blanks" and let me know if you need anything else.

Also if you have more ideas for the nerdom I think I could add 4 more keys.

I will be adding some windowed keys, but they won't be sublimated (it's not possible to sublimate PC).

You have the weekend to make up your mind, monday I'll request the final quote and start the GB soon after.

[wuqe]

When I am old and dead, my heirs are going inherit a vast warehouse full of unused Print Screen and Scroll Lock keys.

...and count themselves lucky! Heirloom keys...

[DamienG]

I have no idea where that icon comes from and you are not the first to ask. According to some sources that would be the "official" pause icon.

It would seem the triangle symbol is actually the break symbol according to that page and the one before it is pause?  Normally the key does both but the pause symbol doubles as both better than the break one imho but it's your set

[)amien

[ideus]

Once again, please review carefully and report any problem. I'm linking the imgur album this time because the set has become gargantuan.

http://imgur.com/a/avBov

How do you want the windowed keys? All blanks?

I am really impressed. The way you have proposed the sets will allow each one to get just exactly what they need. AWESOME! I really appreciate the hard work you have been investing in this development, and design effort. Please keep the good work. Maybe it is not customary, but I'd respectfully suggest that you should include a design fee per order, as an aknowledgement for your nice job. I know you do it out of your passion for this nice hobby, but I think it would be a token of appreciation each of the buyers can give you. It may even be optional as part of the order, in this way each one may opt in or opt out of it. Just a suggestion. Let's see if other fellows agree with the proposal.

[wuqe]

Maybe it is not customary, but I'd respectfully suggest that you should include a design fee per order, as an aknowledgement for your nice job...

This is a whole new level of "shut up and take my money!".

Though I don't disagree with the sentiment, one thing I love about this buy is that it is so obviously a labor of love. Thank you, Matt3o! (FEEL THE LOVE!!!)

[ideus]

Maybe it is not customary, but I'd respectfully suggest that you should include a design fee per order, as an aknowledgement for your nice job...

This is a whole new level of "shut up and take my money!".

Though I don't disagree with the sentiment, one thing I love about this buy is that it is so obviously a labor of love. Thank you, Matt3o! (FEEL THE LOVE!!!)

Then shut up and give Matt your love,... and money 

[jacobolus]

Once again, please review carefully and report any problem. I'm linking the imgur album this time because the set has become gargantuan.

* Are these actual letter shapes final? There are some noticeable inconsistencies in stroke width; especially the mono legend and international mono legends seem to need quite a bit of work still.
* What about a text label for 'enter' on the numpad? (Seems like the symbol numpad enter could go in the icon modifier kit, with a text enter in the text modifier kit; or just include both in the numpad kit?)
* Multimedia keys are too visually heavy, unbalanced compared to everything else. Possible fixes include shrinking the icons or turning them into outlines.
* The place where the circles and line come together on your print screen icon ends up very visually heavy. I can think of a few possible fixes.
* I’m not sure if “print” as a text label really indicates the same thing as “print screen”; likewise “scrl” vs. “scroll lock”; instead of “pgup” and “pgdn” perhaps use 2 lines “page up” and “page down” (or even “page dn” if the full word “down” has trouble fitting.
* "command" and "option" labels are spilling off some key tops

Note, your template is not actually showing the shape of DSA keycaps, so it’s really hard to judge layout, spacing, etc. You may want to switch to a template that accurately reflects the available legendable area.

[ideus]

No RGB icons set? If you decide to include it, please add two 2.25u shift keys. 

[ideus]

There are some reports on loose DSA caps made by SP. Just a heads up in case it may affect the manufacture of this and the Skull's sets:




Quote from: rowdy on 2014-03-14, 01:28:11Quote from: geniekid on 2014-03-14, 00:55:35I recently installed a set of SP DSA caps on my QFR Red.  The stems do indeed feel a little loose - I had to use saran wrap to get the stabilizer clips to stay in.  Previously I had OEM caps with black landing pads - because these caps are so short the landing pads still work even though the caps have no crossbars.  Since they are so short, however, the loss in travel distance is very noticeable and I decided to not used any dampeners.  Turns out I don't really miss the dampeners because, as mentioned by others, this profile really reduces the rate of bottoming out while typing significantly.

All in all I prefer these caps for gaming, and OEM caps for typing.  I've never tried cherry profile caps or SA profile caps (though that may change as certain GBs enter production  ).

(Attachment Link)



That's interesting that they were loose, because usually SP DSA keycaps are tight.

In fact SP have a specific FAQ entry about it.



Yes, I have read that FAQ entry.  I had assumed I would never get the stabilizer clips out of the DSA keys once they went in since I have a hard enough time pulling them out of my WASD caps.  Imagine my surprise when I found they were too loose!

[Matt3o]

I'm not adding design fees to the set, but thanks for suggesting that.

* Are these actual letter shapes final? There are some noticeable inconsistencies in stroke width; especially the mono legend and international mono legends seem to need quite a bit of work still.

Really, I'm not repeating this again. Just read few posts above.

* What about a text label for 'enter' on the numpad? (Seems like the symbol numpad enter could go in the icon modifier kit, with a text enter in the text modifier kit; or just include both in the numpad kit?)

no complains so far about that, but if you want both I can add the text version to the numpad

* I’m not sure if “print” as a text label really indicates the same thing as “print screen”; likewise “scrl” vs. “scroll lock”; instead of “pgup” and “pgdn” perhaps use 2 lines “page up” and “page down” (or even “page dn” if the full word “down” has trouble fitting.

this is controversial. who wants everything on 1 line with abbreviations, who no abbreviations and 2 lines. I'll make up my mind as soon as I start the final templates. I don't know yet which is the printable area, so I don't know what will be the font size and available space.

Note, your template is not actually showing the shape of DSA keycaps, so it’s really hard to judge layout, spacing, etc. You may want to switch to a template that accurately reflects the available legendable area.

please don't check style, only number and type of keys and if it's icon or text. Again, I'm not wasting my time with final design until I get specs from SP regarding actual printable area (and possibly other specs regarding sublimation like min line width etc...)

[rowdy]

Any chance of yellow Win keys?  And something special for the Menu, maybe orange?

[ideus]

Captain's log. Stardate 41199.5, the set is almost defined. However klingon attacks are still inminent...The fleet should be in devcon 2.

[Latin00032]

I'm excited

[ideus]

I'm excited

Congrats on your 1k posts! eyyy!, now you should ask for a star, don't ask me, I do not know how to do it...

[jacobolus]

please don't check style, only number and type of keys and if it's icon or text. Again, I'm not wasting my time with final design until I get specs from SP regarding actual printable area (and possibly other specs regarding sublimation like min line width etc...)

Aha. Gotcha. Let me know if they give any advice about their preferred formatting for submitted outlines – i.e. what kind of documents they want, and how those should be set up.

Also, let me know if you want any help with the actual designs. I’d be glad to throw a couple hours of fiddling at the project.

What tool are you using? Illustrator? Photoshop? Inkscape? (And which version?)

I’ll maybe also throw some time into making a sweet-looking & easy-to-use template, that can be used for similar projects in the future. In illustrator, e.g., it should be possible to set things up so that it’s possible to just click a button to add a key, with everything easily snapping to the usual-spaced grid, set up as layer styles so that there are a minimum of extra layers.

[CommonCurt]

Once again, please review carefully and report any problem. I'm linking the imgur album this time because the set has become gargantuan.

http://imgur.com/a/avBov

How do you want the windowed keys? All blanks?

Looking good Matt.   I think that Control on the RGB set should be spelled out. 

Are you still considering doing a CMY set?

[Matt3o]

please don't check style, only number and type of keys and if it's icon or text. Again, I'm not wasting my time with final design until I get specs from SP regarding actual printable area (and possibly other specs regarding sublimation like min line width etc...)

Aha. Gotcha. Let me know if they give any advice about their preferred formatting for submitted outlines – i.e. what kind of documents they want, and how those should be set up.

Also, let me know if you want any help with the actual designs. I’d be glad to throw a couple hours of fiddling at the project.

What tool are you using? Illustrator? Photoshop? Inkscape? (And which version?)

I’ll maybe also throw some time into making a sweet-looking & easy-to-use template, that can be used for similar projects in the future. In illustrator, e.g., it should be possible to set things up so that it’s possible to just click a button to add a key, with everything easily snapping to the usual-spaced grid, set up as layer styles so that there are a minimum of extra layers.

Yes, I will totally need help. Thanks!

I'll probably post a couple of SVG templates people could follow to help me in the process. I use latest inkscape.

Luckily enough DSA is a very simple and square shaped key.

Are you still considering doing a CMY set?

Nope, we don't have magenta in PBT colors.

@all, do you think the extra blank mods are good enough?

[rowdy]

Is there yellow in PBT colours?  Can you do yellow Win keys?

[Matt3o]

Is there yellow in PBT colours?  Can you do yellow Win keys?

yes (sorry missed your prev message). Where would I put it? A new kit?

[rowdy]

Is there yellow in PBT colours?  Can you do yellow Win keys?

yes (sorry missed your prev message). Where would I put it? A new kit?

Can it be part of the RGB?

[Matt3o]

I would rather add a new kit with yellow super keys.

Also should I add a RGB kit with symbols? wow... lots of options.

[StylinGreymon]

Also should I add a RGB kit with symbols?

Probably.
It would look pretty sweet.

Also, I'm having trouble figuring out the sizes of the modifiers in the text and icon mod sets.
They'd fit on a Poker II, right?

[Matt3o]

Someone else complained about the readability of the key sizes, but the keys are ordered by size:

1u
1.25u
1.50u
1.75u

pretty simple.

The last one is a standard left shift

of course poker is covered

[rowdy]

I would rather add a new kit with yellow super keys.

Also should I add a RGB kit with symbols? wow... lots of options.

Fair enough, although I would hesitate to suggest adding another option having seen the enormous list of options already.

But if there is, can there also be a single orange Menu key?  To make RGBYO?

[Matt3o]

I would rather add a new kit with yellow super keys.

Also should I add a RGB kit with symbols? wow... lots of options.

Fair enough, although I would hesitate to suggest adding another option having seen the enormous list of options already.

But if there is, can there also be a single orange Menu key?  To make RGBYO?

ehehe, fair enough

[StylinGreymon]

Someone else complained about the readability of the key sizes, but the keys are ordered by size:

1u
1.25u
1.50u
1.75u

pretty simple.

The last one is a standard left shift

of course poker is covered

Cool beans, man.
Just trying to see what I want for my Poker, and what I'd want for the Viper/Eagle (if the GB happens, of course)

[Matt3o]

last few points to discuss:

- enter in the numpad, is it okay to have it in just "icon" version?
- RGB icon kit?
- ISO Enter. Do we keep both or only one (blank or text)?
- Addional blanks. Is that kit ok?!

[StylinGreymon]

Just the icon enter is great, to me.

[CommonCurt]

last few points to discuss:

- enter in the numpad, is it okay to have it in just "icon" version?
- RGB icon kit?
- ISO Enter. Do we keep both or only one (blank or text)?
- Addional blanks. Is that kit ok?!

I think "Enter" on the numpad looks better.

I won't be getting a RGB icon kit.   Just the standard & maybe the blank set.

[LechnerDE]

last few points to discuss:

- enter in the numpad, is it okay to have it in just "icon" version?
- ISO Enter. Do we keep both or only one (blank or text)?

Concerning these two points:

- I can live with the icon version, but I prefer the text one
- you should keep both ISO Enter options, because nothing looks worse than a single blank key when all other keys have legends and vice versa