geekhack
Site Announcements and Feedback => Announcements/Feedback/Suggestions => Topic started by: Jefff on Tue, 22 December 2020, 21:40:47
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The memeposts have gone too far by mentioning my name. If this IC form gets enough votes, maybe the mods will consider it. If this post feels spammy, just let me know and I'll delete it. But seriously, the memeposts are taking up the highest spots on the IC forum, and it needs to stop.
IC Form: https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7 (https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7)
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The memeposts have gone too far by mentioning my name. If this IC form gets enough votes, maybe the mods will consider it. If this post feels spammy, just let me know and I'll delete it. But seriously, the memeposts are taking up the highest spots on the IC forum, and it needs to stop.
IC Form: https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7 (https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7)
What posts are we talking about?
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The memeposts have gone too far by mentioning my name. If this IC form gets enough votes, maybe the mods will consider it. If this post feels spammy, just let me know and I'll delete it. But seriously, the memeposts are taking up the highest spots on the IC forum, and it needs to stop.
IC Form: https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7 (https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7)
What posts are we talking about?
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The most recent wood keycap meme post. Not going to link it and draw more attention to that.
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The memeposts have gone too far by mentioning my name. If this IC form gets enough votes, maybe the mods will consider it. If this post feels spammy, just let me know and I'll delete it. But seriously, the memeposts are taking up the highest spots on the IC forum, and it needs to stop.
IC Form: https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7 (https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7)
What posts are we talking about?
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The most recent wood keycap meme post. Not going to link it and draw more attention to that.
Oh yeah, those posts hella unnecessary and I don’t want notifications for them lol
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The memeposts have gone too far by mentioning my name. If this IC form gets enough votes, maybe the mods will consider it. If this post feels spammy, just let me know and I'll delete it. But seriously, the memeposts are taking up the highest spots on the IC forum, and it needs to stop.
IC Form: https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7 (https://forms.gle/MGkqVLuGbdfoPXin7)
What posts are we talking about?
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The most recent wood keycap meme post. Not going to link it and draw more attention to that.
I mean, they could be marked as meme posts and be done with it? That could work? And yeah, the wood and resin caps was a s*t fest altogether
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I don’t see deskmat renders
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If we do Mod approval, I don't think min post count is necessary.
I think we could also consider something similar to the current system for posting in classifieds.
Minimum account age to post IC thread (1-2 months?)
Minimum post count (25 posts)
I prefer this second idea because giving more responsibilities to moderators may not be an option. Creating a built-in filtering system may also be more fluid.
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If we do Mod approval, I don't think min post count is necessary.
I think we could also consider something similar to the current system for posting in classifieds.
Minimum account age to post IC thread (1-2 months?)
Minimum post count (25 posts)
I prefer this second idea because giving more responsibilities to moderators may not be an option. Creating a built-in filtering system may also be more fluid.
I agree; mod approval renders minimum post count unnecessary. Minimum account age is also a great idea! Minimum of 15 days seems reasonable to me.
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I agree; mod approval renders minimum post count unnecessary. Minimum account age is also a great idea! Minimum of 15 days seems reasonable to me.
15 days might be too little. I would suggest at least one month because we will be able to see how active the user is over a greater length of time.
It's pretty easy to just make an account, wait 2 weeks and spam unhelpful comments.
If the user makes an effort to become a part of the community consistently over a month, it's more likely the user won't be giving us **** ICs
Obviously, these are just my opinions
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I agree; mod approval renders minimum post count unnecessary. Minimum account age is also a great idea! Minimum of 15 days seems reasonable to me.
15 days might be too little. I would suggest at least one month because we will be able to see how active the user is over a greater length of time.
It's pretty easy to just make an account, wait 2 weeks and spam unhelpful comments.
If the user makes an effort to become a part of the community consistently over a month, it's more likely the user won't be giving us **** ICs
Obviously, these are just my opinions
Fair enough, I agree with your opinions.
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about moderator approval: I don't think we need to give more works to the moderators.
minimum account age and post count seems good to me and that should be enough to filter out the memeposts.
the fair numbers could be 1 month old and 25 posts, I think.
if stuffs get out of hand, we can use report feature to get moderator's attention.
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I've seen a lot of good ICs from accounts with less than 20 posts, so I think minimum age would be the most sensible option if this were to be enforced. Maybe 1 month? Mod approval seems like it might lead to elitism or unnecessary strictness for posts that aren't actually a problem. Couldn't sh*tposting profiles be locked or banned?
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Yeah I think balancing age and posts is the best option. Some people don't exclusively use this board or might be originally running GBs in different countries' boards.
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straight up stop using this forum
everything posted here is either an advertisement you will see on reddit, or garbage made for a quick buck
moderators have been afk since 2018
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I thought GMK Gregory was a memepost... I heard it's entering GB soon.
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I thought GMK Gregory was a memepost... I heard it's entering GB soon.
I wiuld consider it a meme keyset but not meme post, have you seen how low the quality of meme post lately? For example, GMK set with no render, kitting, color code, vendor and stuff. When GMK Gregory was post, it has everything.
Also on the topic of moderation of IC, I would say your account has to be at least 3 months old and has been actively post throughout those 3 month, like you cant just spam and hit minimum post count, you have to post something every 5-10 days or something unless your account is more than 9 months old then you can bypass the post every 5-10 days thingy, might seem a bit harsh but considering how low the IC post quality has been, I think everyone will understand. And the reason I'm making such a harsh rule is that rather than someone from outside just popping in to GH and advertise themselves, I would love to see an IC for an actual community member more
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Minimum post requirement is a horrible idea that will only encourage unnecessary and unproductive commenting/spamming that will STILL ultimately result in ****posts. What needs to happen is documentation needs to be created that clearly outlines the requirements of an IC based on the subject matter. From there, we can effectively moderate the forum ourselves by flagging posts that do not meet these requirements, which will give the moderators an opportunity to take action as they see fit. If that responsibility can not be handled properly on our part as a community, than the only solution would be to have moderators more involved in reviewing posts before they are made public. Quite frankly, I see "meme" posts made all the time by even "established" members of the forum. It wastes everyones time whether you have had your account for a decade or a couple of days. If there are not clear expectations set for people new or old to create meaningful contributions and also be held accountable to a standard, even if that standard evolves over time, then the problem will never be fixed.
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Better get my post count up just in case.
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Minimum post requirement is a horrible idea that will only encourage unnecessary and unproductive commenting/spamming that will STILL ultimately result in ****posts. What needs to happen is documentation needs to be created that clearly outlines the requirements of an IC based on the subject matter. From there, we can effectively moderate the forum ourselves by flagging posts that do not meet these requirements, which will give the moderators an opportunity to take action as they see fit. If that responsibility can not be handled properly on our part as a community, than the only solution would be to have moderators more involved in reviewing posts before they are made public. Quite frankly, I see "meme" posts made all the time by even "established" members of the forum. It wastes everyones time whether you have had your account for a decade or a couple of days. If there are not clear expectations set for people new or old to create meaningful contributions and also be held accountable to a standard, even if that standard evolves over time, then the problem will never be fixed.
I 100% agree with this. Some standard template or checklist for board and keyset ICs should be provided. Easy to flag posts missing something off the list if required.
Deskmat ICs can go burn in hell though.
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This seems smart. Not totally sure about minimum posts (maybe if it's a low number?), but account age should definitely be a requirement.
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reserved for gatekeeping
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Deskmat ICs can go burn in hell though.
Some people like deskmats, you know? I think it's pretty easy to just ignore a post with a certain keyword in the title... Like I simply do not open posts when I see "Alice" or "75%".
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reserved for gatekeeping
There's a difference between gatekeeping and having some standard for existence. Excluding memes there's plenty of ICs every month which involved the bare minimum effort. Especially now that some have discovered the "lucrative" aspects of the hobby.
Asking people to make an effort and/or not troll is like the bare minimum of any online community. Asking people to do that is hardly gatekeeping.
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reserved for gatekeeping
People be like
"UuuuuhhHhhh you wanna have standard??? Huur buur gatekeeping much?"
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I brought up something similar in the off topic subforum.
What if there was a monetary value required to post in IC? $5 to post? Not too expensive but enough to discourage excess.
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reserved for gatekeeping
People be like
"UuuuuhhHhhh you wanna have standard??? Huur buur gatekeeping much?"
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Having to wait time b4 posting is fine with me. But having 15 or 30 posts will only result in spam from people wanting to post IC. Nothing will improve.
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How about a combination of all of the above?
- You need an account that's at least a month old AND 10 or 15 posts
If your account does not qualify, then you need a mod to approve your thread. Ie) maybe you're already established in other communities and just created an account to get feedback from the geekhack community.
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Deskmat ICs can go burn in hell though.
Some people like deskmats, you know? I think it's pretty easy to just ignore a post with a certain keyword in the title... Like I simply do not open posts when I see "Alice" or "75%".
To further this, why not just require more tags in posts so people can choose what they want to see? An option to filter by tags could be added with moderate effort on the devs part as well. This would also supplement my previous idea of documentation for expectations.
[IC][Deskmat][Cables][Keysets][Keyboard][Switches][TKL][75%][Other] could all be useful delimiters for people to filter what they want to see while still allowing plenty of exposure for people who want to offer items in the community.
and for all of these things I would also be willing to contribute. I have a pretty entry level knowledge of PHP and backend web developement and I also have a ton of experience in documentation and standardization, since that's pretty much what i do for a living at my day job. Would be absolutely down to communicate and contribute on this with people to help scale our community.
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Deskmat ICs can go burn in hell though.
Some people like deskmats, you know? I think it's pretty easy to just ignore a post with a certain keyword in the title... Like I simply do not open posts when I see "Alice" or "75%".
To further this, why not just require more tags in posts so people can choose what they want to see? An option to filter by tags could be added with moderate effort on the devs part as well. This would also supplement my previous idea of documentation for expectations.
[IC][Deskmat][Cables][Keysets][Keyboard][Switches][TKL][75%][Other] could all be useful delimiters for people to filter what they want to see while still allowing plenty of exposure for people who want to offer items in the community.
and for all of these things I would also be willing to contribute. I have a pretty entry level knowledge of PHP and backend web developement and I also have a ton of experience in documentation and standardization, since that's pretty much what i do for a living at my day job. Would be absolutely down to communicate and contribute on this with people to help scale our community.
I think problem is that GeekHack forum is tied to a type of forum format/layout or something (dont know the term in english, but something kinda like wordpress but more strict) so I dont think you can modifide the site that much
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Limit on posts? - I'll post garbage.
Account age? - I'll create account and wait.
$5 for IC? - OK, this would work on me but some people don't give a **** about $5.
I think any (semi)automated filter will only modify prankster's (idiot, d***, ...) behaviour making live difficult for genuine IC runners.
Don't have better idea than reporting non-ICs - but decision should be human made, not an automated removal based on number of votes because pranksters/idiots would acquire yet another tool to make our lives difficult.
I thought for a moment that weighted voting (account age and num of posts could give more power to the vote to take pseudo-IC down) could work but it could give too much power to single person.
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No hope :-(
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Deskmat ICs can go burn in hell though.
Some people like deskmats, you know? I think it's pretty easy to just ignore a post with a certain keyword in the title... Like I simply do not open posts when I see "Alice" or "75%".
The issue is that this forum is for interest checks. I don't think I've ever seen a Deskmat posted here that's been posted to judge interest or take feedback. It's almost always just an advertisement, for which reddit is a better place. I mean when has a Deskmat here ever been iterated on?
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I think other than some kind of filter, it would be nice if there would be separation between keyboard and keycap ICs, now that pretty much everyday there is some new keycap IC.
I am not against having new keycap IC everyday, but I am more interested in keyboard ICs, mainly because keycap sales are unlimited and you have more than enough time to buy them if you want. So I would like to be able to quickly see what keyboards are in IC without going through 100 keycap ICs, so that I can decide if it interests me, save up for it etc.
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Minimum post requirement is a horrible idea that will only encourage unnecessary and unproductive commenting/spamming that will STILL ultimately result in ****posts....
I 100% agree with this. Some standard template or checklist for board and keyset ICs should be provided. Easy to flag posts missing something off the list if required.
Deskmat ICs can go burn in hell though.
i think this is probably the smartest approach. minimum post count promotes spam, and minimum account age would box out people who only use other forums. i think that stricter moderation and clear, specific guidelines are the best way forward. something that specifies what an ic must include and actively taking down ic's that are just gb adverts would go a long way i think.
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Minimum post requirement is a horrible idea that will only encourage unnecessary and unproductive commenting/spamming that will STILL ultimately result in ****posts.
I agree, and please consider this comment exactly this, as I want to post in Artisan Services but I cant without minimum posts requirements.
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Minimum post requirement is a horrible idea that will only encourage unnecessary and unproductive commenting/spamming that will STILL ultimately result in ****posts. What needs to happen is documentation needs to be created that clearly outlines the requirements of an IC based on the subject matter. From there, we can effectively moderate the forum ourselves by flagging posts that do not meet these requirements, which will give the moderators an opportunity to take action as they see fit. If that responsibility can not be handled properly on our part as a community, than the only solution would be to have moderators more involved in reviewing posts before they are made public. Quite frankly, I see "meme" posts made all the time by even "established" members of the forum. It wastes everyones time whether you have had your account for a decade or a couple of days. If there are not clear expectations set for people new or old to create meaningful contributions and also be held accountable to a standard, even if that standard evolves over time, then the problem will never be fixed.
This is most definitely the best solution in my opinion, and is already in progress. I'm putting together a fairly thorough walkthrough of creating IC and GB posts, along with templates for both.
As others have pointed out, minimum post requirements do often result in people spamming to meet the requirements, and account age isn't always a good metric for making serious / non-useless posts. They're not out of the question, but ultimately more clear rules for the community to self-report is probably the best starting point.
moderators have been afk since 2018
oh hai
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moderators have been afk since 2018
oh hai
Mod slumber party when?
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moderators have been afk since 2018
oh hai
Mod slumber party when?
We're not supposed to back at our keyboards yet.
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Mods mad but it took them 2 days to see the post :thumb:
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Mods mad but it took them 2 days to see the post :thumb:
That's cute. Didn't know we had to comment to acknowledge the post.
Not like we moved it from the interest check subforum or anything.
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Everything that needed to be said has been said other than the IC template
I'm in favor of an IC checklist, but I'm against the idea of a template. I love the creativity of IC posts from GMK Stealth, Maestro, Civilization, etc, and enforcing a template would stifle that creativity
I do think a checklist for the post is a good start. You separate ICs into however many categories there are - keycap sets, artisans, keyboard cases, macro pads, etc
For each, there's a set of simple checklists.
For keycap sets, for example, you must have had at least done color matching and kitting (I'm not a keycap set maker so someone else can likely come up with better answers). Things like pricing and vendors and artisans isn't a requirement in the initial post.
For macro boards, having manufactured a prototype and being able to share pictures of that would gain trust better than just renders.
The point of all of this is not to gatekeep, but to keep quality of posts as high as possible. Old members may not have the highest quality of IC posts, neither does it mean new members will have bad IC posts.
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Simon next IC please :)
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Aside from the checklist of what needs to be in the initial posts, I'd like to know what the mods expect from IC posters in terms of responding to feedback? There's a lot of complaining about designers/vendors not changing their ideas based on feedback in the threads. Can an 'interest check' not simply be used to check how interested people are in any given concept? To give an idea of how many they should make, or how to set the pricing, or if it should be made at all? Is that regarded as not being in the spirit of the GH community? Is there more expectation of responding to feedback in keyset ICs than with keyboard ICs? At what point does it change from being an IC to an advert?
Genuinely interested to know what mods think here.
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Aside from the checklist of what needs to be in the initial posts, I'd like to know what the mods expect from IC posters in terms of responding to feedback? There's a lot of complaining about designers/vendors not changing their ideas based on feedback in the threads. Can an 'interest check' not simply be used to check how interested people are in any given concept? To give an idea of how many they should make, or how to set the pricing, or if it should be made at all? Is that regarded as not being in the spirit of the GH community? Is there more expectation of responding to feedback in keyset ICs than with keyboard ICs? At what point does it change from being an IC to an advert?
Genuinely interested to know what mods think here.
Answering from my own pov, not talking for the mods. Soz in advance for a somewhat rambly post
I think we have a tricky situation in controlling the IC:s aswell as the GB:s. Both the rules and the forums were made for simpler times where IC, was getting feedback and confirmation to run something for the community. All upfront cost to the runner themselves. Nowadays we have vendors etc where IC:s practically don't matter for more than creating hype. Same goes for these meme-IC:s which mostly originates from some discord where we have no insight in and then we have to try to understand which IC:s are real, which are just made for advertisements and which are memes. It doesn't help that we lack activity from the mod team.
Back to the IC definition, I think its hard to regulate an IC without discouraging newcomers from trying to bring their creativity to the community. There will always be members abusing features for their own benefit, such as fake IC:s for promotion and spamming 25 posts just to get marketplace priviliges, and I think we as a community have agree what an IC is fundamentally. It would feel weird to me if we, the mods, decide how current IC:s should work, since we aren't the target audience of these posts (imo).
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I love the creativity of IC posts from GMK Stealth, Maestro, Civilization, etc, and enforcing a template would stifle that creativity
I would hope and expect that the template is optional - it should dictate what needs to be in an IC but anyone who's taken the time to come up with a creative IC post will have already covered it. If a new user doesn't know what needs to be in an IC they can use the template so there's no excuse for the low effort half baked threads we get now: if everything is not covered it can be removed.
Aside from the checklist of what needs to be in the initial posts, I'd like to know what the mods expect from IC posters in terms of responding to feedback? There's a lot of complaining about designers/vendors not changing their ideas based on feedback in the threads. Can an 'interest check' not simply be used to check how interested people are in any given concept? To give an idea of how many they should make, or how to set the pricing, or if it should be made at all? Is that regarded as not being in the spirit of the GH community? Is there more expectation of responding to feedback in keyset ICs than with keyboard ICs? At what point does it change from being an IC to an advert?
Genuinely interested to know what mods think here.
I will echo Signature here in all regards - I speak for myself and I too remember the good old days where this site was more than vendors selling stuff, where the few IC/GBs were individuals doing things to help out niche groups who wanted the same things they did. What I see today mirrors civilisation. In the old days small communities helped each other, then we 'progressed' into bigger groups where those able took control and dictate what everyone else wants and like it or not they are above the law. Unlike in daily life no-one pretends to care what I think by posting an IC for jeans so there's nowhere for me to complain that I want them wider but if there was I would be one of the 'entitled children' 'demanding' the designer change what's presented in the OP.
In summary I would like ICs to take feedback but I expect most of them to be adverts with feedback ignored as there are plenty of people willing to buy whatever's offered so there's no need to please everyone to get rich.
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Thanks for the responses, all good food for thought.