Post by: jcoffin1981 on Thu, 31 May 2018, 01:52:42
It’s important to distinguish between the DIY’er using parts from 4 different switches to get the perfect keystroke, and the persons spending $400 dollars on the newest space age custom built case using unobtainium to craft a one-of-a-kind case. Some of these people in my mind I liken them to local car clubs with the kids parked in a lot on the weekend, with a $25,000 car with $20,000 invested into it, much of it in body work. As I’ve gotten older I don’t see myself investing said amount into a keyboard or said amount into a car. I may take a popular out-of-box keyboard and swap some springs or keycaps and call it a day.
Most people here don’t disclose their age and I’m not asking, but I was wondering if those bitten hard by the bug are generally 20 year olds, or if they run the gamut.? Also, those who have invested crazy amounts into their builds, do they have any regrets? I know I have wasted undisclosed cash amounts on aesthetic “upgrades” on cars which I regret. At the time however they made me very happy. There were a few times I assumed a member was young and later found out they were veterans.
Post by: portbaron on Thu, 31 May 2018, 05:57:18
The first phase often includes an explosive buying period where the neophyte tries out everything and attempts to 'catch up' to others who have been at it for years. Everything is new and shiny, and expense is no obstacle in the pursuit of the ultimate keyboard experience.
Since you mentioned cars, I'll compare my car stuff to my keyboard stuff. I just hit mid 30s, and got my first mechanical board about 8 years ago.
In my 20s I modded cars too, to the extent that I had a mkiv supra that ran consistent 10s at the track. It had a stock exterior. All the money was in the motor and drivetrain. I even used stock 17" rims because I needed to run drag radials to keep it from fishtailing if I floored it at 75mph. Did almost all the work myself. So that's kind of like DIY boards. Now I have a car that costs more, but it's not modded. So that's less tinkering now that I'm older, but more cash up front lol. Sort of the opposite of your example lol.
As for keyboards, I like keycaps. I want them all. So that seems more rice-rocket than sleeper, at odds with my car history.
I'm also into switches, however, which is more like working on a car's engine. I have some box royals and hako trues on the way to swap stems and springs, and am on the lookout for a slightly stronger spring for Jades that doesn't turn them into Navys.
But I only built my first custom board very recently. Soldering is still a slow process for me, so I don't feel bad about paying someone who is more efficient at it to do it for me. I have a couple more boards coming that I will build myself, but overall it's not how I want to spend a lot of my time. Accordingly, I have custom boards assembled by others with all weights of Zealios, box switches, gaterons, etc. to try out switches and learn what I prefer. Not expensive GB customs, mind you. I just want switches and keycaps. Unlike cars, I've never felt like spending much time working on boards (rather than using them) I guess.
So in the end I'd say I'm somewhat lazy in my old age, and keep the DIY part to a minimum even though I'm into nifty switches. I have a lot of money sunk into boards not because they are expensive customs, but because I need a lot of boards to have all the switches and display all the keycaps. The only buys I regret are Cherry switch boards that aren't Leopolds.
Post by: kurplop on Thu, 31 May 2018, 11:08:58
Also, spending a thousand dollars on a keyboard may be extravagant and irresponsible if you’re struggling to get by; not so much if that’s a small part of your discretionary income. Same thing with time. We all need some form of recreation. It’s when we ignore our responsibilities in the pursuit of our passions that we can rightfully be called fanatical.
Post by: Signature on Thu, 31 May 2018, 13:28:44
Also the regretting part :)) I've always told myself and others that I'm "investing" so I don't feel so bad about the costs :p But I do feel like I get some sort of long term value if I buy a great keyboard that I can use for X amount of years insteead of eating out 20 times.
As for the last couple of years I haven't really bought anything but just stayed for the community (Unless you count for the free clacks when you become moderator ;) ).
Post by: Blue_Moon on Thu, 31 May 2018, 13:55:31
Post by: Kevadu on Thu, 31 May 2018, 15:04:13
Post by: killyou on Thu, 31 May 2018, 15:23:52
Post by: Blue_Moon on Fri, 01 June 2018, 10:46:59
to continue with your car example, some people like sup'ing up their $25,000. i get that, but i'd rather buy a ferrari
Post by: davkol on Fri, 01 June 2018, 12:43:45
learning not to bottom out hasn't ever worked for me. someone said it here once (i have no hope of finding the thread it was in), but if you aren't bottoming out, you aren't typing fast enough :p (sure i can believe there's fast typists who don't bottom out, but the point is i have to focus too much on my typing to avoid it)It appears that using the Shift key is too much of a hindrance for you as well.
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 01 June 2018, 12:50:19
Post by: Blue_Moon on Fri, 01 June 2018, 14:57:31
Post by: Mekuno on Fri, 01 June 2018, 18:38:39
All in all, I sold the car, sold the parts and bought a more sensible yet much nicer car (2015 Lexus is350 fsport) and got an income to back it up.
Honestly, as long as you are making money, and you can afford it, there is nothing wrong with investing in something you WANT to do. Apparently, keyboards grabbed me up now and now and just been spending my money on it. I am only buying highest quality boards, or rarest boards so I am still particular about my purchases.
If I was less fortunate that I didn't get off my ass and worked hard for my career I wouldn't be spending a dime on anything but only the necessary.
Post by: Riverman on Mon, 04 June 2018, 12:00:36
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Mon, 04 June 2018, 21:50:35
mechanical is okay, but when i get in to over time, either the clack from bottoming out starts to hurt my ears or it starts to hurt my finger tips. learning not to bottom out hasn't ever worked for me. someone said it here once (i have no hope of finding the thread it was in), but if you aren't bottoming out, you aren't typing fast enough :p (sure i can believe there's fast typists who don't bottom out, but the point is i have to focus too much on my typing to avoid it)
This I think was my thread and I was talking about my new Leopold with Cherry Browns. The switches are more tactile than the ones from a few years ago and I mentioned that it was harder to type without bottoming out. Yes if I type as fast as I can I bottom out, but make a lot more mistakes at that speed. Using fluid, controlled keystrokes you stop within the last 0.5mm of bottoming out. This is much more comfortable.
One good thing about dumping cash in this hobby is that many of the boards will hold their value. If you dump $10,000 dollars into your Honda, you will only see a small fraction of that at resale.
I have found it interesting to learn that many of the members here are older than I imagined- many in their 30's to 50's.
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 04 June 2018, 22:34:19
Post by: Blue_Moon on Wed, 06 June 2018, 10:02:29
Post by: Kyi195 on Wed, 06 June 2018, 10:33:28
I definitely see my purchases verging on layouts rather than aesthetics though. I'm consistently looking for layouts that are more optimized for my typing and that drives more than the look of the special case. Esp since I seem to enjoy the sandwich style case with a buncha standoffs rather than the aluminum unibody ones or w/e.
I think my first true mech board that I owned was a standard office Model M from 92. I still have it in my closet and I'm giving it to my friend. it was super comfy but it was so damn big that I needed to downsize. So I dropped down to a KBP V60 Mini which was good but the lack of arrow keys didn't cut it. And I pretty much exclusively use the right shift so using the arrow lock (Fn + Enter I think?) didn't work because I'd just jump up lines and start typing in the middle of words and such. Now I have the Whitefox and found out that split backspace doesn't work well but I also notice that I don't use the left half of my space bar. My left thumb is really just to hit the alt key next to the spacebar when I'm closing things or to hit the win key for win+E or win+R so I'm going to play with split spacebar on my 40% to see how setting the left half to a function key works. However, I think the 65% layout with a full backspace is the best option for me so really the only other direction I can see myself going is to try and build a new sandwich style with a built-in hub for my mouse and numpad. I've been working on designing the PCB but it's slow because I have absolutely 0 clue of what I'm doing and also I'm trying to convert an external powerd USB 2 hub to a bus-powered USB 2 w/ a USB C upstream and I want it all on one board and on and on and on.
Uhhh, I think I went on a tangent there for a bit but anyways, I feel like I'm more the first person described than the second one. But maybe I read that wrong.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 06 June 2018, 10:38:24
For me, keyboards are powerful. They help create things. I feel like each one I build could do something important (spoiler: it doesn't)
Also, I am a clarinetist. I went through undergraduate and graduate school spending most of my days perfecting finger movements (...ladies?) I no longer perform. Life took me in a different direction. But I still enjoy moving my fingers and the unique tactility that mechanical keyboards give.
Of course, the aesthetics are a big draw too. I've been a graphics designer and web developer for going on 17 years now, and I spend a lot of time thinking about colors and fonts. I still don't think I've found that perfect colorway/case match. (Which is why there are at least a dozen sets of GMK caps sitting unused in my office closet at the moment :-[ )
I regret pretty much every purchase b/c I know that it is frivolous. But they make me happy. Granted, the longer it goes on, the more fleeting the happiness. I used to get a premium item and feel content for a week or two. Now, it's more like a day, sometimes less. But I've come to expect it. Also, I realize that I am VERY fortunate to have the money to spend on such things. I do see myself selling some things off eventually, now that I do have some firm likes and dislikes logged in the hobby.
I still have bags of trendy switches like Box Navys, Jades, burnt Oranges, Box Royals, Gatistoles, etc... even though I adamantly believe they are not good switches for me. I've stopped trying to talk myself into liking things just because others do.
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 06 June 2018, 11:00:21
On Deskthority the age skews a bit higher than even Geekhack, with the average somewhere around 27 if I remember correctly. People often consider DT the "vintage keyboard forum" which may explain the age difference. Personally I prefer the old stuff, but that doesn't mean we don't have modern keyboards. When I first started in the hobby I used to throw a lot of money into this hobby for sometimes really obscure keyboards, switches, etc. I used nearly all of my income, but I didn't really have any responsibilities at that time in my life so it was a lot more acceptable to do so. As of right now, my SO and I make over six digits together, but due to living expenses, student debt, postgraduate education, and more I have very little discretionary income so I can't spend nearly what I used to on the hobby, and I'm okay with that. I think that's something you learn as you get older as well, is that you don't have to have that ultra rare keyboard, or that new stylish keyset, or whatever else (and this applies to other hobbies of course). This heavily applies to FOMO (fear of missing out).
In terms of actual customization, I don't consider keycap sets the same thing as a bunch of cosmetic mods on your car. I'd compare it more to a nice paint job, going from the boring beige to a nicer teal, or red, or even just matte black. On the other hand, I'd compare car mods more to artisans, which are functionally useless but that make your keyboard more appreciable (for lack of a better word). I have less than five artisans that I've picked up over the last five years and I'd compare it to the what I have on my car. All I've done to my Lexus is added nice Enkei wheels and tint. I am going to transfer my old car audio setup into it from my old (totaled) car because it's a hobby I've enjoyed for many years, but the cost will be very low since I already have everything. Other than that, I haven't done anything to it nor do I plan to.
Post by: nativejibroney22 on Thu, 07 June 2018, 10:22:19
Post by: hilltopchill on Fri, 08 June 2018, 20:50:36
Post by: MrDongblaster on Sun, 10 June 2018, 15:14:47
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 11 June 2018, 03:49:08
Post by: MrDongblaster on Mon, 11 June 2018, 14:10:45
Louisville has some good meetups if you are interested. I went to one of the first ones ever a few years ago at LVL 1.
Oh yeah, man. Totally down for the next one!
Post by: MrDongblaster on Mon, 11 June 2018, 14:12:08
Louisville has some good meetups if you are interested. I went to one of the first ones ever a few years ago at LVL 1.
BTW LVL1 is a super cool facility. I've actually looked at joining. Pretty resonable monthly dues and really cool equipment and capabilities.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 11 June 2018, 15:01:42
Post by: jlee755 on Tue, 12 June 2018, 08:45:13
Keyboards are fun to tinker with at the moment. I enjoy the idea of making it mine; I also don't mind undoing what I just built a few days later to try out something new that I just received. I will probably find myself in a few years thinking that I could've saved that money for more important things, but eh, if I can't do it now then I don't think it gets any easier as I get older with less time and money for myself.
Post by: MrDongblaster on Tue, 12 June 2018, 09:48:41
It is really nice. If I still lived there I probably would've considered joining it too. But alas, I moved away and I'm not traveling 14 hours just to use a laser machine. :p
Yeah lolol. I think that might kill the value of it.
Post by: arsenic on Tue, 12 June 2018, 16:34:59
Apparently I'm a little older than average; I turned thirty this year- and I obviously can't speak for others my age, but I know at least a few of my other friends who are into mechs now that had similar epiphanies that our interest as an adult might stem from beyond the generally seen gaming/programming/computer-related work entry point to a feeling of childhood nostalgia; I learned to type on an AEK. My first year or so of mech-related exploring as an adult was about trying to find a modern tactile equivalent of what I remembered from typing on Alps switches and exploring layout options until I found the right balance for my workflow. And unfortunately, by the time I was able to figure it all out, I realized my tastes kind of required modding, that I like building boards- and that my dwindling sneaker addiction had been replaced. Which is actually kind of good, because it turns out that it's generally much more enjoyable to join a group buy than stand in line for hours only to find out that a store only was able to get one pair of a dope release in size 7 that has already been set aside for the the token girl employee of said store. Because for some reason most shoe companies don't seem to correlate that what is typically released as the smallest mens size of a limited edition shoe is the average shoe size for women, and despite what they're trying to sell us, shoes, like keyboards are genderless and girls like blue too, okay?!*. And, like any hobby I've invested in- sneakers included, I've definitely made some purchases I've regretted, but it always ends up evening out and I've always managed to come up 'even' in the end. So, yeah- I guess the age/income ratio thing is probably relevant, but mostly I think the correlation probably has more to do with personality type than anything- if you're an obsessive collector, that stays with you for life, whatever your hobby is.
*I was that token employee at one point, it was dope. Also, I am still bitter about getting stuck with my second choice Ice Cream X Reeboks back in the day, clearly.
Post by: UnFocused on Thu, 21 June 2018, 19:32:34
I had used Model M (a and few Model F) keyboards in the late 80s, but bought my first Model M in 1998. I used Ms both at home and work until 2012 when I discovered mechanical keyboards were getting popular. I bought a QFR with MX blues. Since then, I've done complete switch swaps on three keyboards and built two (with the most recent being a month ago).
My daily driver keyboards are a 55G Realforce at work (soon to be enclosed in a Norbaforce case) and the most recent build at home which is a LFKeyboards TKL with Tealios in a Tex aluminum case.
Post by: the_marsbar on Sat, 23 June 2018, 13:30:54
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 24 June 2018, 00:49:38
I've spent more money than I had to probably; I've just always wanted to try something new. I own 8-10 boards, but there are some on here with 100's. One thing that sucks is that you do not get back all the money you have invested. I collect watches and my collection is worth a lot more than I've invested, especially since I do all my work myself. If I spend 500 on a vintage watch and paid appropriately it's still worth 500 a year later and possibly more. If I spend 250 on a Varmillo a year later what is it worth, 120? I also like/collect pens, tools, and playing cards. I like function and purpose.
All my keyboards are tactile, and to be honest I like the ones with the least tactility. I wanna try a linear but I'm afraid I'll never pick up my other boards again and all was for naught. I'm starting to feel as if the bump gets in the way and is distracting. As with any hobby or vocation your likes, dislikes, and needs change and evolve over time. Right now my fave board has MX browns and the bump is almost undetectable as it has been lubed. What I may try when I have some time is tearing down a board and lubricating the leaves (leafs)? Has this been done? I've only tried a Red once in my life a few years ago and it was awkward, but taste changes.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 24 June 2018, 08:31:55
I can now see there are plenty of people from 25 to 50 who do everything from accounting, engineering, IT, coding, or just casual enthusiasts
I just turned 66 a couple of weeks ago, and except for terrapin (who rarely makes his presence known) I think I am the oldest active member.
Post by: seville57 on Sun, 24 June 2018, 12:47:18
Post by: terrpn on Sun, 24 June 2018, 15:35:39
Hey bro......I’m geezing at 58
I can now see there are plenty of people from 25 to 50 who do everything from accounting, engineering, IT, coding, or just casual enthusiasts
I just turned 66 a couple of weeks ago, and except for terrapin (who rarely makes his presence known) I think I am the oldest active member.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 24 June 2018, 15:54:23
Hey bro......I’m geezing at 58
Good to know!
Somehow I had it in my head that you were a year or 2 older than me ??
Post by: terrpn on Sun, 24 June 2018, 16:02:12
My beard or goatee makes me look like father time, but I don’t care.
Hey bro......I’m geezing at 58
Good to know!
Somehow I had it in my head that you were a year or 2 older than me ??
Didn’t I buy a KB from you a couple years ago? Omni mod with green painted plate
Matias linear switches?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 24 June 2018, 16:21:37
My beard or goatee makes me look like father time, but I don’t care.
Hey bro......I’m geezing at 58
Good to know!
Somehow I had it in my head that you were a year or 2 older than me ??
Didn’t I buy a KB from you a couple years ago? Omni mod with green painted plate
Matias linear switches?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
probably, you've both been around forever
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 24 June 2018, 17:52:02
Didn’t I buy a KB from you a couple years ago? Omni mod with green painted plate.
Matias linear switches?
I don't remember the plate but I usually paint them after removing rust and green is a favorite color of mine.
And yes, I think that I had bought a bag of Matias switches to check them out, and put them in an Omnikey chassis.
Is it still working properly?
Post by: terrpn on Sun, 24 June 2018, 17:58:25
Absolutely.......
Didn’t I buy a KB from you a couple years ago? Omni mod with green painted plate.
Matias linear switches?
I don't remember the plate but I usually paint them after removing rust and green is a favorite color of mine.
And yes, I think that I had bought a bag of Matias switches to check them out, and put them in an Omnikey chassis.
Is it still working properly?
Alps are my favorites and I pretty much have all except brown.
Yours with the Omni w/Matias switches and a Dell bigfoot with teensy, USB and click leaf removed to where it is Alps black linear switches sits on my desk now.
Sweet board as is your Omni Northgate
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: SBJ on Mon, 25 June 2018, 01:40:28
Unless you count for the free clacks when you become moderator ;):eek:
Free clacks? Noice!
I'm relatively new to the hobby, at least in terms of being active on forums etc. but my interest in mech boards has been there for a long time.
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 25 June 2018, 12:44:00
You poor soul.....Unless you count for the free clacks when you become moderator ;):eek:
Free clacks? Noice!
I'm relatively new to the hobby, at least in terms of being active on forums etc. but my interest in mech boards has been there for a long time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk