[IC] JD40 40% boards: metal, plastic, and a celebration of smallfry's life

[nickr]

I remember my stock Poker II being so light that even the resistance of the cable could push the board around.  If you have a 40% board with acrylic or titanium then I can imagine this being even more of a nuisance.

[tbc]

full acrylic.

look like i'm going to have to buy my titanium from the cut and bend and get my acrylic + pcb from here lol.

the kit will include diodes?

I thought the acrylic wasn't being produced if it doesn't win the vote? (And in the case where it does win the vote, wouldn't it be more convenient to buy it from here?)

that's my vote.

i need to buy my plate no matter what happens because of the lack of cutouts.

[Yslen]

<dances excitedly>

[esko997]

The JD40 board that I bought from 1pq on the classifieds just arrived at my house today, and I've got to say its a really cool board! Really loving it!

[mkawa]

i had an interesting idea that jd also thinks is cool. i am grabbing a quote on it. hopefully the price will be reasonable.

[mkawa]

notched JD40 switch plates are now available: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58073.msg1333490#msg1333490

[Grendel]

Okay... So the kit will come w/ those ? Or no plate since you sell them now ? Or a notchless plate ?

[mkawa]

the kit will have a notchless plate.

we should be able to offer a kit without a top plate though, for those who opt for the notched plate now

[Yslen]

we should be able to offer a kit without a top plate though, for those who opt for the notched plate now

If you could, that would be most appreciated

[tbc]

+1

[minho]

the kit will have a notchless plate.

we should be able to offer a kit without a top plate though, for those who opt for the notched plate now

What is the approximate cost of the total kit, and the cost of the kit without the plate? I'm just wondering about the price difference between the two.

[mkawa]

we're really flying by the seat of our pants here. we definitely don't know how much the kit is going to cost, as we haven't even decided what will be in the kit.

again, flying by the seat of my pants here, i THINK that the notchless plates will cost about 30$ less than the notched plates. the price of materials doesn't change, so it's all in the cutting costs. the argon shielded incredibly precise lasercut that this first piece is getting is expensive, but my guy has been pretty cool about costs so far. for the big runs, the less precise waterjet is going to be a lot cheaper, but again, the material is a fixed and non-trivial cost.

my suggestion, the NJW foundation notwithstanding, is to buy a notchless plate now if you even think you might want one. remember, i'm not going to cut notched titanium plates again, ever. period. nada.

[mkawa]

middle plate sorbothane is a go

the deal is that this will deaden the keyboard and make it feel like a very heavy keyboard does when typing despite an incredibly low total weight.

[Melvang]

middle plate sorbothane is a go

the deal is that this will deaden the keyboard and make it feel like a very heavy keyboard does when typing despite an incredibly low total weight.

Awesome.  What are the chances of being able to get counter sunk holes in the plate for mounting hardware?

[jdcarpe]

middle plate sorbothane is a go

the deal is that this will deaden the keyboard and make it feel like a very heavy keyboard does when typing despite an incredibly low total weight.

Awesome.  What are the chances of being able to get counter sunk holes in the plate for mounting hardware?

Chances are pretty good if you own a countersink drill bit. Bwahahaha!

[Melvang]

middle plate sorbothane is a go

the deal is that this will deaden the keyboard and make it feel like a very heavy keyboard does when typing despite an incredibly low total weight.

Awesome.  What are the chances of being able to get counter sunk holes in the plate for mounting hardware?

Chances are pretty good if you own a countersink drill bit. Bwahahaha!

They get pricey quick for something that will cut Ti.  I have tried to drill it before with standard high speed steel drill bits.  Don't work.

[jdcarpe]

middle plate sorbothane is a go

the deal is that this will deaden the keyboard and make it feel like a very heavy keyboard does when typing despite an incredibly low total weight.

Awesome.  What are the chances of being able to get counter sunk holes in the plate for mounting hardware?

Chances are pretty good if you own a countersink drill bit. Bwahahaha!

They get pricey quick for something that will cut Ti.  I have tried to drill it before with standard high speed steel drill bits.  Don't work.

Yeah, that's the only problem with having plates cut by laser or waterjet...no depth cuts at all. I can't imagine what the price would be for a milled Ti plate.

[mkawa]

middle plate sorbothane is a go

the deal is that this will deaden the keyboard and make it feel like a very heavy keyboard does when typing despite an incredibly low total weight.

Awesome.  What are the chances of being able to get counter sunk holes in the plate for mounting hardware?

Chances are pretty good if you own a countersink drill bit. Bwahahaha!

my machine shop can't give me tolerances as tight as the laser can. the material is too thin for the mill. this is sheet metal work.

i have a carbide countersink bit, but with the material being so thin, i don't want to potentially ruin your plate trying to get a countersink in there. further, most countersunk machine screws have a head size taller than 2mm

[Scoliosis Jones]

ordered the notched plate, super excited!

[mkawa]

how do people feel about the bumpon varieties available off-the-shelf at http://www.bumperspecialties.com/ ?

cptbadass and i bounced some ideas for milled feet around yesterday and it's really really hard to keep costs down on those pieces.

[Zeal]

I'm not sure what style/size feet you'll be sourcing, but my experience with small spherical bump on feet is that they get gooey after a while, and leave a sticky mess at the bottom and are easy to knock off if you're carrying it around.

[SpAmRaY]

sorbothane feet?

[mkawa]

sorbothane feet can tend to be sticky in lower duros, and we're already going to get the dampening of sorbo from the gasket between plates.

the nice thing about bumpons, assuming you can find one that you like the angle and feel of, is that they're really cheap. if they come off, you just put a new set on. they're also super adjustable

[tbc]

bumpons are fine by me.  wasn't going to use the feet anyways.

[Grendel]

for bumpons

[mkawa]

yah, ok, i've thought about this, and to keep prices low, we're just going to go with bumpons. i will query the sorbo people and see if they can offer bumpons in quantity with some kind of coating to make them non-sticky and to provide them with top notch PSA that won't come off unless you really abuse them, but if we machine the feet, they're going to cost as much as the rest of the parts combined.

[mkawa]

TODOs on this: keyset pricing and bottom plate: what material? Ti means only one source of material, but aluminum may be slightly more cost effective. my worry with aluminum though is that it has to be finished, which is extra cost. thin stainless is an option, but if you go too thick, you get flexing, and if you go too thick, it weighs a ton and cutting fees will make it just as expensive as the Ti.

basically, we can cut 30pcs of plates out of a single sheet of Ti, which makes the marginal cost on materials pretty low. the cut on stainless and Ti is going to be the most expensive part of the equation.

[Scoliosis Jones]

Are we talking same prices as the Ti notched plate?

[tbc]

I'm under the impression a Ti bottom plate would be cheaper than the notched switch plate.  I think it would be using a cheaper cutting option + there would be fewer cuts + the cuts are simpler.

[Scoliosis Jones]

if we have a price estimate for both Al and Ti, it'll be easier to make a decision for the overall build, as well as the prices for other parts (PCB, switches?, LEDs?). I'm all for Ti since i got the notched place, but still, an estimate would be nice.

[mkawa]

at scale, polished titanium sheets are 20$ per 40% sheet. we may have trouble hitting scale only cutting the tops.  the other project consuming this material is up in the air at the moment.

anyway, the cut is all time spent under the jet, so it costs about the same amount to cut the alu as the ti. for alu we'd probably do about 3-4mm thick, but it would have to be polished, cut then ano'd OR all the plates would have to be sent for powdering. raw alu isn't going to work, and you can't ano unpolished sheet.

actually, it might cost a bit more to cut the alu because we may not be able to stack it due to the thickness. anyway, think of the ti bottom as possibly saving 15 ish dollars per kit.

[Scoliosis Jones]

so you're saying Ti is almost cheaper and more resistant that al? so what's the debate about?

[mkawa]

sorry, that should have said "think of the alu bottom as saving 15-ish dollars per kit" and that's a maximum. it could totally end up breaking even

it also increases complexity of obtaining material and so on and so forth

but yah, ti is about as resistant to corrosion as stainless steel, and nearly as strong (alloyed ti is much stronger) but weighs as much or less than alu

i should note that normally, working with titanium is a HUGE pain, as is sourcing it et&c. however, i've developed a network of shops and suppliers that make this pretty much moot at this point.

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well I say, huzzah for Ti!

[Zeal]

My OCD would kick in if we're mixing Titanium top with an aluminum base.

+1 for full Titanium

[hwood34]

Gimme full Ti

[Vibex]

Ti for the win! I already want another 40% board.

[LechnerDE]

Interested in one set 

[nuclearsandwich]

Full titanium!

[mkawa]

HYPE http://www.geekhackers.org/products/jd40-jdcarpe-s-40-keyboard-kit-sorbothane-titanium-all-profits-go-to-the-nathan-j-walters-foundation-rip-smallfry

[Zeal]

HYPE http://www.geekhackers.org/products/jd40-jdcarpe-s-40-keyboard-kit-sorbothane-titanium-all-profits-go-to-the-nathan-j-walters-foundation-rip-smallfry

Jeez, at least list 1 available so shopify can flag the order as fraud. Hue. /ifonlyihadsuchahighcreditlimit

[Vibex]

HYPE http://www.geekhackers.org/products/jd40-jdcarpe-s-40-keyboard-kit-sorbothane-titanium-all-profits-go-to-the-nathan-j-walters-foundation-rip-smallfry

Drats out of stock already.

[mkawa]

HYPE http://www.geekhackers.org/products/jd40-jdcarpe-s-40-keyboard-kit-sorbothane-titanium-all-profits-go-to-the-nathan-j-walters-foundation-rip-smallfry

Jeez, at least list 1 available so shopify can flag the order as fraud. Hue. /ifonlyihadsuchahighcreditlimit

i tried to make it ONE MILLION DOLLARS in full austin powers style, but apparently the max on shopify is all 9s

[HoffmanMyster]

HYPE http://www.geekhackers.org/products/jd40-jdcarpe-s-40-keyboard-kit-sorbothane-titanium-all-profits-go-to-the-nathan-j-walters-foundation-rip-smallfry

Drat!  I can't even afford it... 

[Melvang]

sorry, that should have said "think of the alu bottom as saving 15-ish dollars per kit" and that's a maximum. it could totally end up breaking even

it also increases complexity of obtaining material and so on and so forth

but yah, ti is about as resistant to corrosion as stainless steel, and nearly as strong (alloyed ti is much stronger) but weighs as much or less than alu

i should note that normally, working with titanium is a HUGE pain, as is sourcing it et&c. however, i've developed a network of shops and suppliers that make this pretty much moot at this point.

For the same volume of rae material Tiweighs more than aluminium.  On parts where the shape and mass of the material can be manipulated Ti comes out lighter in a lot of cases due to its different physical properties.

[mkawa]

yah, we'd have had to go with thicker alu sheet

[Sonny]

I've definitely been interested in 40% for a long time. However right now I'm definitely worried about price. Is there any estimate on how much all of this would cost? Also how much would keyboard assembly cost, will there be options for switches to be sold with the set?

I apologize for all the questions but this is the first GB I've been interested and willing to participate in.

[jdcarpe]

I have wanted to address this for some time now, but never got around to it until now.

This is definitely not a kit for the absolute beginner. I would classify it as an intermediate build. There are a couple quirks to the assembly that could prove frustrating for someone without the proper tools or skills to deal with them. Not to say that it wouldn't be possible for a beginner, but it may be a challenge.

[minho]

I have wanted to address this for some time now, but never got around to it until now.

This is definitely not a kit for the absolute beginner. I would classify it as an intermediate build. There are a couple quirks to the assembly that could prove frustrating for someone without the proper tools or skills to deal with them. Not to say that it wouldn't be possible for a beginner, but it may be a challenge.

Can you clarify as to what challenges there are that may pose frustrating for a beginner?

[mkawa]

the only thing i have a 100% solid price on is the material cost and tooling and per piece cost of the sorbothane gasket. i can tell you that at 50pcs, we're looking at a little over 2000$ for tooling and materials so far. i'm going to need to make the first payment on this next week, so i am actively trying to work out a total cost as well as come up with margin for donation to the NJW foundation so that we can officially start the group buy and start taking orders. i should be able to get a number on the cuts on tuesday from my waterjet guy, and JD and I need to powow on the PCB cost. that should be basically the entire picture, as long as we go with bumpons, so cross fingers, the GB will start next week.

just a quick note: i've been trying really hard to make this as affordable as possible while still being kind of a special cool kit with stuff we've never done before. i appreciate everyone's patience as we put everything together.

second note: ironically, i think we may have to skip the keycap set, as set costs at projected quantity are pretty darned high; probably the largest cost we'd encounter.