[IC] Koala Switches

[KingOfMemes]

Supporting those who take advantage of or outright steal from other creators in a small market is a great way to stymie future developments, since the creators of new designs will have lower incentives to spend their time and money making something that can just be ripped off without repercussions. That ultimately means fewer and worse options for the consumer.

If you like this hobby, you don’t support its bad actors.

Let's not turn this into a stolen switch design **** show. Every switch out today is a blatant copy of another switch; tweaked design or not.

If you would like to pay a premium for certain switches, so be it. Many of us would like to see these switches get made regardless of who manufacturers them.

I don't think anyone gives a **** about using the design like all other MX switches. A manufacturer knowingly produced and sold counterfeits. That's just outright deception.

My point exactly. There’s a big difference between using a design from an expired MX patent after a lawful period of exclusivity, and making and selling counterfeit products.

If I were Zeal and I had an idea that might bloom into the next big thing, I might think twice about spending any effort in R&D or ever releasing it since some con-artist company might just copy it, sell it as its own and get away with it. Long run, supporting fraudsters undermines everyone’s best interests.

But that wasn't your point at all when you said this:

Supporting those who take advantage of or outright steal from other creators in a small market is a great way to stymie future developments, since the creators of new designs will have lower incentives to spend their time and money making something that can just be ripped off without repercussions. That ultimately means fewer and worse options for the consumer.

If you like this hobby, you don’t support its bad actors.

Counterfeiting is being deceptive and selling a product that isn't what you say it is, which is bad and ACTUALLY terrible for the consumer... but that isn't the same as selling a copy of a switch, calling it something else, and doing so at a lower price than the original.

Agreed... sorry for the nuanced argument, let me help spell it out:

Counterfeiting = bad
People who counterfeit = counterfeiters
Supporting counterfeiters when they come out with “new” designs gives the counterfeiter more $ and perpetuates their bad actions = bad
More counterfeiter bad actions = less innovation by others = bad

Sorry again for the big words. Hope this makes sense.

Np man, red herrings and straw men can be real stinkers sometimes.

[Rumblehotep]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

[eskimojo]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

essentially the latter

t1 = holy panda clone without the long stem and thus early bottom out
koala = recoloured t1 but with lighter spring and nylon housing
stealios = fake zeal v1s, from my understanding same manu but different moulds entirely.

[kgorin]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

stealios were a knock-off tealios, linear zeal switches

these (as well as T1s) are tactile, very close to zealios v2 in key feel, which were also touted as HP alternative, but frankly I think we should stop with this "almost holy panda" BS, they all are very tactile but zealios and HPs have their own unique characteristics

[Laughmaster]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

stealios were a knock-off tealios, linear zeal switches

Counterfeit, not "knock-off". They literally used the Gateron logo and sold them as if they were legit Zeal products.

You can count me out of anything manufactured by Durock.

[djmantis]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

essentially the latter

t1 = holy panda clone without the long stem and thus early bottom out
koala = recoloured t1 but with lighter spring and nylon housing
stealios = fake zeal v1s, from my understanding same manu but different moulds entirely.

T1's do not have the same sound profile as holy panda correct? Feel wise I recall them being similar.

[eskimojo]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

essentially the latter

t1 = holy panda clone without the long stem and thus early bottom out
koala = recoloured t1 but with lighter spring and nylon housing
stealios = fake zeal v1s, from my understanding same manu but different moulds entirely.

T1's do not have the same sound profile as holy panda correct? Feel wise I recall them being similar.

Correct, however Koalas may come a lot closer.

[vootcaboot]

why is "counterfeiting bad" a controversial statement

[KingOfMemes]

why is "counterfeiting bad" a controversial statement

Nobody said counterfeiting isn't bad. What's bad is when people think counterfeiting is the same thing as copying IP.

[nuclear_wizard]

why is "counterfeiting bad" a controversial statement

Nobody said counterfeiting isn't bad. What's bad is when people think counterfeiting is the same thing as copying IP.

What about the stealios fiasco doesn't qualify as 'counterfeiting'? They were being sold from a storefront (don't want to get into whether the storefront was complicit) to customers as one product when they were not that product.

[Lil]

why is "counterfeiting bad" a controversial statement

Nobody said counterfeiting isn't bad. What's bad is when people think counterfeiting is the same thing as copying IP.

What about the stealios fiasco doesn't qualify as 'counterfeiting'? They were being sold from a storefront (don't want to get into whether the storefront was complicit) to customers as one product when they were not that product.

Alright, we get it. Besides it's not like anyone could tell the difference when typing

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

[KingOfMemes]

why is "counterfeiting bad" a controversial statement

Nobody said counterfeiting isn't bad. What's bad is when people think counterfeiting is the same thing as copying IP.

What about the stealios fiasco doesn't qualify as 'counterfeiting'? They were being sold from a storefront (don't want to get into whether the storefront was complicit) to customers as one product when they were not that product.

Who said anything about the stealios fiasco not being counterfeiting?

[Protein]

Interested. (Unpopular opinion, but the stealio situation doesn't bother me. If the product is good and price is good, I'm in)

[KingOfMemes]

Interested. (Unpopular opinion, but the stealio situation doesn't bother me. If the product is good and price is good, I'm in)

The issue with stealio situation is that people were told they were getting something that they weren't, which was counterfitting. Unfortunately, the T1's got the boot because of it too. The problem in this thread is that people are getting on pseudo ethical high horses saying that copying IP is evil and shouldn't be supported, which as you said, if the product is good and the price is good then the consumer wins. They are taking a counterfitting issue and using it as fuel for their ethical debate about IP copying when neither have anything to do with each other.

[MMKB]

I digress, but it's too easy to confuse these with Panda switches. Koala are darker

[Auxo]

Interested. (Unpopular opinion, but the stealio situation doesn't bother me. If the product is good and price is good, I'm in)

The issue with stealio situation is that people were told they were getting something that they weren't, which was counterfitting. Unfortunately, the T1's got the boot because of it too. The problem in this thread is that people are getting on pseudo ethical high horses saying that copying IP is evil and shouldn't be supported, which as you said, if the product is good and the price is good then the consumer wins. They are taking a counterfitting issue and using it as fuel for their ethical debate about IP copying when neither have anything to do with each other.

I think it has more to due with the fact that its the manufacturer/company that is scummy, not the fact that they did x is unethical but y isn't. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this) Whether they made a good product or not, doesn't take away from them counterfeiting.

That's how I see it anyway, and with that I was at first interested in this product, but no longer am because of the counterfeiting issue. (Putting aside whether or not a product & the accompanying price is good)

[nuclear_wizard]

Interested. (Unpopular opinion, but the stealio situation doesn't bother me. If the product is good and price is good, I'm in)

The issue with stealio situation is that people were told they were getting something that they weren't, which was counterfitting. Unfortunately, the T1's got the boot because of it too. The problem in this thread is that people are getting on pseudo ethical high horses saying that copying IP is evil and shouldn't be supported, which as you said, if the product is good and the price is good then the consumer wins. They are taking a counterfitting issue and using it as fuel for their ethical debate about IP copying when neither have anything to do with each other.

I think it has more to due with the fact that its the manufacturer/company that is scummy, not the fact that they did x is unethical but y isn't. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this) Whether they made a good product or not, doesn't take away from them counterfeiting.

That's how I see it anyway, and with that I was at first interested in this product, but no longer am because of the counterfeiting issue. (Putting aside whether or not a product & the accompanying price is good)

^ Pretty much this. I don't think anyone was arguing about the similarity of T1's to HP's or Zealio R2's being what they had a problem with from this company; it always came out of the company's involvement in the 'stealios' stuff. Maybe that point got muddled at some point. But if you can't see why supporting a company that knowingly and intentionally sold a product under false pretenses (regardless of the current product being offered) with the goal of profiting off of the quality and brand recognition of another company is a bad thing for innovation in this hobby/community then banging on about 'people's ethics' in a thread for their new product isn't going to change anyone's mind.

More on topic: Is the POM stem actually going to make a difference as far as smoothness? I can't really tell the difference between a dry NK Cream and a tealio for example. What is the profile of the tactile bump? Close to T1's? If having a POM stem is meant to give a smooth/lubed feel, isn't that going to diminish the tactility you want in the switch in the first place?

[DasGnome]

More on topic: Is the POM stem actually going to make a difference as far as smoothness? I can't really tell the difference between a dry NK Cream and a tealio for example. What is the profile of the tactile bump? Close to T1's? If having a POM stem is meant to give a smooth/lubed feel, isn't that going to diminish the tactility you want in the switch in the first place?

Almost all switch stems are POM, even OG cherry. The special thing about Creams was the housing being POM as well

[Tequila_Heineken]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

stealios were a knock-off tealios, linear zeal switches

Counterfeit, not "knock-off". They literally used the Gateron logo and sold them as if they were legit Zeal products.

You can count me out of anything manufactured by Durock.

The Gateron tops used in the so-called "stealios" were genuine Gateron tops sold by Gateron, according to one of the zF posts. See that's the thing, people are essentially talking out of their ass here so nobody really knows who's responsible for what.

[Auxo]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

stealios were a knock-off tealios, linear zeal switches

Counterfeit, not "knock-off". They literally used the Gateron logo and sold them as if they were legit Zeal products.

You can count me out of anything manufactured by Durock.

The Gateron tops used in the so-called "stealios" were genuine Gateron tops sold by Gateron, according to one of the zF posts. See that's the thing, people are essentially talking out of their ass here so nobody really knows who's responsible for what.

Here are the words from Zeal himself, to prevent anyone from "talking out of their ass".

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/bk1tyc/psa_fake_tealios_fake_zeal_stabilizers_possibly/

[nuclear_wizard]

More on topic: Is the POM stem actually going to make a difference as far as smoothness? I can't really tell the difference between a dry NK Cream and a tealio for example. What is the profile of the tactile bump? Close to T1's? If having a POM stem is meant to give a smooth/lubed feel, isn't that going to diminish the tactility you want in the switch in the first place?

Almost all switch stems are POM, even OG cherry. The special thing about Creams was the housing being POM as well

Really? I know most switch housings are nylon so l figured the stems would be something similar. I'm pretty surprised to hear that most stems are POM. Why does this IC specifically call that out on these switches like it's a feature if that's the standard I wonder.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Dissitesuxba11s]

Really interested where this goes.

[leexy]

this is hitting moq whether u like it or not

[juliandoucette]

I'm interested in these switches.

[nappis]

I don't get this switch drama. When Chinese clone manufacturer is making your "super original thing" that is sold with high margins:
1) your thing is still a clone
2) get ready for more clones

[Auxo]

I don't get this switch drama. When Chinese clone manufacturer is making your "super original thing" that is sold with high margins:
1) your thing is still a clone
2) get ready for more clones

Yeah, you clearly don't get it.

[nappis]

I don't get this switch drama. When Chinese clone manufacturer is making your "super original thing" that is sold with high margins:
1) your thing is still a clone
2) get ready for more clones

Yeah, you clearly don't get it.

Lol @ your "scummy manufacturers". iPhones are manufactured by scummy manufacturers. iPhone manufacturers are under spotlight and the still don't give a **** about doing the right thing.
Now think about the Chinese switch manufacturers. How high standards do you think they have? Of course they are doing third shifts. You do business in China and you accept the reality of how things work in there.

[MdotMaxson]

I don't get this switch drama. When Chinese clone manufacturer is making your "super original thing" that is sold with high margins:
1) your thing is still a clone
2) get ready for more clones

Yeah, you clearly don't get it.

Lol @ your "scummy manufacturers". iPhones are manufactured by scummy manufacturers. iPhone manufacturers are under spotlight and the still don't give a **** about doing the right thing.
Now think about the Chinese switch manufacturers. How high standards do you think they have? Of course they are doing third shifts. You do business in China and you accept the reality of how things work in there.

Watch out he probably sends his replies from his iphone and thinks it was made by engineers in California who make a living wage. Just like his Zealios were had made by Zeal himself which is why they cost four times as much as any other switch.
You would think Zeal is giving these guys discounts to hate on every other tactile switch out there. Except they are paying full price with smiles on their face.

[wholypantalones]

Are there samples of said Koala switches out in the wild? Have they been reviewed and/or tested? Can I get my hands on a sample to try and/or test them? I'm sure many would like to know what we are buying.

The T1 switch was an okay tactile switch but the bump seemed a little to "brisk", they were lubed inconsistently and the top rattled unless you put switch films on them. Will this switch have the same shortcomings or have they been fixed?

[rockydbull]

Are there samples of said Koala switches out in the wild? Have they been reviewed and/or tested? Can I get my hands on a sample to try and/or test them? I'm sure many would like to know what we are buying.

The T1 switch was an okay tactile switch but the bump seemed a little to "brisk", they were lubed inconsistently and the top rattled unless you put switch films on them. Will this switch have the same shortcomings or have they been fixed?

You will need to wait until these end up in the wild to get reviews on them. There is this groupbuy and an Australian one running. From there I am sure people will be selling on secondhand markets for people to try them out. I have a feeling these will have similar shortcomings to the T1. They will have a lighter spring but that can be tested on a T1 right now.

[AlcoholEnthusiast]

I hope we can get these without factory lube, because as  wholypantalones mentioned - that was one of the problems with T1. The lubing was not done well, and was very inconsistent. I imagine if they are using the same T1 molds they will still have the fitment issues and needs films though.

[pr0ximity]

why should I, as a consumer, care either way about the ethics of the manufacturer as long as they produce a quality, affordable switch?

#nice

[Relive]

Color me interested. Can someone remind me if there are other switches made out of a Nylon, or is this a new thing?

[Auxo]

I don't get this switch drama. When Chinese clone manufacturer is making your "super original thing" that is sold with high margins:
1) your thing is still a clone
2) get ready for more clones

Yeah, you clearly don't get it.

Lol @ your "scummy manufacturers". iPhones are manufactured by scummy manufacturers. iPhone manufacturers are under spotlight and the still don't give a **** about doing the right thing.
Now think about the Chinese switch manufacturers. How high standards do you think they have? Of course they are doing third shifts. You do business in China and you accept the reality of how things work in there.

Watch out he probably sends his replies from his iphone and thinks it was made by engineers in California who make a living wage. Just like his Zealios were had made by Zeal himself which is why they cost four times as much as any other switch.
You would think Zeal is giving these guys discounts to hate on every other tactile switch out there. Except they are paying full price with smiles on their face.

Shining example of people who care about the larger community lol, peace.

[Nothatso]

Color me interested. Can someone remind me if there are other switches made out of a Nylon, or is this a new thing?

I believe Outemu Skies have nylon housings.

[J3ff_Leopard]

I'm also pretty sure Outemu Skys had a nylon housing. I recently put Sky tops on my T1s because I thought it would be interesting. The sound is a definite improvement but switch films were absolutely necessary. It's currently my favorite board.

[nguyenhimself]

I don't get this switch drama. When Chinese clone manufacturer is making your "super original thing" that is sold with high margins:
1) your thing is still a clone
2) get ready for more clones

Yeah, you clearly don't get it.

Lol @ your "scummy manufacturers". iPhones are manufactured by scummy manufacturers. iPhone manufacturers are under spotlight and the still don't give a **** about doing the right thing.
Now think about the Chinese switch manufacturers. How high standards do you think they have? Of course they are doing third shifts. You do business in China and you accept the reality of how things work in there.

Watch out he probably sends his replies from his iphone and thinks it was made by engineers in California who make a living wage. Just like his Zealios were had made by Zeal himself which is why they cost four times as much as any other switch.
You would think Zeal is giving these guys discounts to hate on every other tactile switch out there. Except they are paying full price with smiles on their face.

You are being weirdly accusing.

When the T1 first came out, people were very hyped about it. Typing tests were also very positive. Just search on r/mk and you’ll see them. Good news all around.

It was ONLY after the Stealios news came out that people (rightfully) turned against this manufacturer for stealing Zeal’s design without giving Zeal any credit or payment.

Now some here apparently think it’s 100% OK to use other people’s IP to make stuffs and sell for profit. I disagree on that, but it’s a different thing than claiming that we are plotting to stop new tactile switches from competing with Zeal. That’s just silly and wrong.

[SUB01]

I'd be more ok with buying these switches if the manufacturer actually showed that they were sorry for stealing zeal's design.

From this link:https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/cu59t1/ic_koala_switches/ey5cdg2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x  all I'm seeing right now is "We are extremely sorry for getting caught stealing." I'd actually believe them if they did something like gave all the profits they earned from selling stealios to zeal. Actions speak louder than words after all. I'm not saying novel keys own the idea of a pom housing switch, but it doesn't exactly help the case that these switches seem to be a tactile version of the cream switches.

edit: wrong link sorry guys :https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/cvwyqi/ic_koala_switch_big_updates_and_questions_answered/

edit2: I've also read that somehow durock might not be completely responsible for the drama? However, putting Occam's razor to practice, a factory making counterfeit gateron switches seem more likely than gateron having this master plan to put durock out of buisness.

[wholypantalones]

I'd be more ok with buying these switches if the manufacturer actually showed that they were sorry for stealing zeal's design.

From this link:https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/cu59t1/ic_koala_switches/ey5cdg2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x  all I'm seeing right now is "We are extremely sorry for getting caught stealing." I'd actually believe them if they did something like gave all the profits they earned from selling stealios to zeal. Actions speak louder than words after all. I'm not saying novel keys own the idea of a pom housing switch, but it doesn't exactly help the case that these switches seem to be a tactile version of the cream switches.

Did you even read the text in any of the links you posted? Everything in this comment seems incredibly misinformed.

[KingOfMemes]

I'd be more ok with buying these switches if the manufacturer actually showed that they were sorry for stealing zeal's design.

From this link:https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/cu59t1/ic_koala_switches/ey5cdg2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x  all I'm seeing right now is "We are extremely sorry for getting caught stealing." I'd actually believe them if they did something like gave all the profits they earned from selling stealios to zeal. Actions speak louder than words after all. I'm not saying novel keys own the idea of a pom housing switch, but it doesn't exactly help the case that these switches seem to be a tactile version of the cream switches.

Did you even read the text in any of the links you posted? Everything in this comment seems incredibly misinformed.

Excuse me, but it seems like you are trying to prevent a pseudo ethical circlejerk. Can you please abstain and let me project my personal moral dogma?

[wholypantalones]

I'd be more ok with buying these switches if the manufacturer actually showed that they were sorry for stealing zeal's design.

From this link:https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/cu59t1/ic_koala_switches/ey5cdg2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x  all I'm seeing right now is "We are extremely sorry for getting caught stealing." I'd actually believe them if they did something like gave all the profits they earned from selling stealios to zeal. Actions speak louder than words after all. I'm not saying novel keys own the idea of a pom housing switch, but it doesn't exactly help the case that these switches seem to be a tactile version of the cream switches.

Did you even read the text in any of the links you posted? Everything in this comment seems incredibly misinformed.

Excuse me, but it seems like you are trying to prevent a pseudo ethical circlejerk. Can you please abstain and let me project my personal moral dogma?

Sorry.

[KingOfMemes]

I'd be more ok with buying these switches if the manufacturer actually showed that they were sorry for stealing zeal's design.

From this link:https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/cu59t1/ic_koala_switches/ey5cdg2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x  all I'm seeing right now is "We are extremely sorry for getting caught stealing." I'd actually believe them if they did something like gave all the profits they earned from selling stealios to zeal. Actions speak louder than words after all. I'm not saying novel keys own the idea of a pom housing switch, but it doesn't exactly help the case that these switches seem to be a tactile version of the cream switches.

Did you even read the text in any of the links you posted? Everything in this comment seems incredibly misinformed.

Excuse me, but it seems like you are trying to prevent a pseudo ethical circlejerk. Can you please abstain and let me project my personal moral dogma?

Sorry.

Thx <3 

[SUB01]

I'd be more ok with buying these switches if the manufacturer actually showed that they were sorry for stealing zeal's design.

From this link:https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/cu59t1/ic_koala_switches/ey5cdg2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x  all I'm seeing right now is "We are extremely sorry for getting caught stealing." I'd actually believe them if they did something like gave all the profits they earned from selling stealios to zeal. Actions speak louder than words after all. I'm not saying novel keys own the idea of a pom housing switch, but it doesn't exactly help the case that these switches seem to be a tactile version of the cream switches.

Did you even read the text in any of the links you posted? Everything in this comment seems incredibly misinformed.

Excuse me, but it seems like you are trying to prevent a pseudo ethical circlejerk. Can you please abstain and let me project my personal moral dogma?

Sorry.

Thx <3 

The irony lul.

[wholypantalones]

I'd be more ok with buying these switches if the manufacturer actually showed that they were sorry for stealing zeal's design.

From this link:https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/cu59t1/ic_koala_switches/ey5cdg2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x  all I'm seeing right now is "We are extremely sorry for getting caught stealing." I'd actually believe them if they did something like gave all the profits they earned from selling stealios to zeal. Actions speak louder than words after all. I'm not saying novel keys own the idea of a pom housing switch, but it doesn't exactly help the case that these switches seem to be a tactile version of the cream switches.

Did you even read the text in any of the links you posted? Everything in this comment seems incredibly misinformed.

Excuse me, but it seems like you are trying to prevent a pseudo ethical circlejerk. Can you please abstain and let me project my personal moral dogma?

Sorry.

Thx <3 

The irony lul.

"like raaaain on your wedding day, a freee ride when you're already late"

[t0rk]

Nothing like a little bit of drama. The POM Alice fiasco seems to have died down a bit, glad to see this is holding strong.

I'd buy some of these switches.

It wasn't a pattern, it was one bad decision. I understand why people have a problem with this manufacturer, but I don't think passing final judgement on anyone who's ever screwed up is the right decision. You can hold them accountable, and still be willing to forgive. Businesses are made up of people, and people are flawed. Can't get upset with everyone always. That sounds exhausting.

[KingOfMemes]

Nothing like a little bit of drama. The POM Alice fiasco seems to have died down a bit, glad to see this is holding strong.

I'd buy some of these switches.

Amen brother

It wasn't a pattern, it was one bad decision. I understand why people have a problem with this manufacturer, but I don't think passing final judgement on anyone who's ever screwed up is the right decision. You can hold them accountable, and still be willing to forgive. Businesses are made up of people, and people are flawed. Can't get upset with everyone always. That sounds exhausting.

Whoa now, I thought we were trying to keep the drama going, not bring reasoning into the situation

[Tequila_Heineken]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

stealios were a knock-off tealios, linear zeal switches

Counterfeit, not "knock-off". They literally used the Gateron logo and sold them as if they were legit Zeal products.

You can count me out of anything manufactured by Durock.

The Gateron tops used in the so-called "stealios" were genuine Gateron tops sold by Gateron, according to one of the zF posts. See that's the thing, people are essentially talking out of their ass here so nobody really knows who's responsible for what.

Here are the words from Zeal himself, to prevent anyone from "talking out of their ass".

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/bk1tyc/psa_fake_tealios_fake_zeal_stabilizers_possibly/

You're a good guy Anthony. read it: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/cwvydx/to_the_conspirator_who_want_to_kill_t1i_will/

[Lil]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

stealios were a knock-off tealios, linear zeal switches

Counterfeit, not "knock-off". They literally used the Gateron logo and sold them as if they were legit Zeal products.

You can count me out of anything manufactured by Durock.

The Gateron tops used in the so-called "stealios" were genuine Gateron tops sold by Gateron, according to one of the zF posts. See that's the thing, people are essentially talking out of their ass here so nobody really knows who's responsible for what.

Here are the words from Zeal himself, to prevent anyone from "talking out of their ass".

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/bk1tyc/psa_fake_tealios_fake_zeal_stabilizers_possibly/

You're a good guy Anthony. read it: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/cwvydx/to_the_conspirator_who_want_to_kill_t1i_will/

I actually think this seems like something that was more likely to have happened

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

[Tom_Kazansky]

You're a good guy Anthony. read it: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/cwvydx/to_the_conspirator_who_want_to_kill_t1i_will/

I actually think this seems like something that was more likely to have happened

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

I don't know much about business things but I think this conspiracy is real,

you make a product that have high quality but at... like... half the price, of course orther people will be upset. (as they don't want to lower their price to compete with you)

[Auxo]

So these are T1s? 
I'm still confused as what these are, the T1's were touted as 95% pandas but stealios were clones of Zeal switches, so are these knockoff zeal v2 stems? 
Or are these wholly new tactile stems that some are soured on solely because the manufacturer was associated with the kbdfans/T1 situation?

stealios were a knock-off tealios, linear zeal switches

Counterfeit, not "knock-off". They literally used the Gateron logo and sold them as if they were legit Zeal products.

You can count me out of anything manufactured by Durock.

The Gateron tops used in the so-called "stealios" were genuine Gateron tops sold by Gateron, according to one of the zF posts. See that's the thing, people are essentially talking out of their ass here so nobody really knows who's responsible for what.

Here are the words from Zeal himself, to prevent anyone from "talking out of their ass".

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/bk1tyc/psa_fake_tealios_fake_zeal_stabilizers_possibly/

You're a good guy Anthony. read it: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/cwvydx/to_the_conspirator_who_want_to_kill_t1i_will/

Now that's pretty heavy, thanks for this