Dragunov SVD in my opinion is the most beautiful gun ever. Always wanted one, maybe someday.
Dragunov SVD in my opinion is the most beautiful gun ever. Always wanted one, maybe someday.
Dragunovs are cool. Look up the Romanian PSL if you want something with the same aesthetics and role, without the ridiculous price tag. I'm pretty sure Classic had them for under $2,000 recently. They're not mechanically the same though. I think the PSL is basically a scaled-up AK chambered in 7.62x54r.
Dragunov SVD in my opinion is the most beautiful gun ever. Always wanted one, maybe someday.
Dragunovs are cool. Look up the Romanian PSL if you want something with the same aesthetics and role, without the ridiculous price tag. I'm pretty sure Classic had them for under $2,000 recently. They're not mechanically the same though. I think the PSL is basically a scaled-up AK chambered in 7.62x54r.
I've seen the thicc AK conversions, no thanks. Even a Tiger knockoff is like $5-10k I can't imagine what an actual military SVD goes for in gun circles. Finding a private seller, offering them a price of a new car, then still possibly getting turned down. :))
Those are all epic pieces. I've never owned a gun or ever particularly wanted to but I do enjoy going to the gun range when I get the chance.
This one time in Dallas, I saw a pair of engraved double barrel shotguns priced at 250 a piece. Ahem... that's... $250,000 a piece.
Those are all epic pieces. I've never owned a gun or ever particularly wanted to but I do enjoy going to the gun range when I get the chance.
This one time in Dallas, I saw a pair of engraved double barrel shotguns priced at 250 a piece. Ahem... that's... $250,000 a piece.
Thank you very much. They're my fanciest guns, at present. I have plenty of other weird/random things though.
Range trips really are a lot of fun. I think more people need to experience them if they haven't, if only to get a chance to learn some important gun safety.
What the heck were those shotguns? Were they custom made and engraved in Liege, Belgium or something? I imagine they were over/unders, probably had some precious metal leaf, like gold, worked into the engraving too?
What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz, pandemic threat protection ?
I prefer fictional firearms. Here's my personal replica of one of the most iconic movie guns of all time: Deckard's gun from the Blade Runner movies (1982 and 2017)
(Attachment Link)
I tried to make the rust patterns resemble those on the actual prop when displayed at WorldCon in 2006 (?).
I'm not entirely happy about the finish on the upper receiver and lever though.
Nude photo below:More(Attachment Link)
Yes, it is made of plastic, and started out as a very thin shell - a limited-edition Japanese watergun that was very detailed. I then built as much as possible of the real gun parts inside, but (as a challenge) using the same material: ABS plastic.
Hopefully, I can hold of a Tomenosuke replica of metal some day. I don't think the domestic gun laws would permit me to have one made from original gun parts. A lot of time was spent on studying those real ones though: Steyr bolt-action rifle and Bulldog '44 revolver.
Mine has unique custom "working" internals with safety bolt-action lever, safety and clicking trigger.
I thought the Gateron Blue clicked louder than a Kailh Box Navy, so I had used one of those.
My pride used to otherwise be my own replica of Han Solo's gun from Star Wars, with the base gun replica extremely modified to resemble the specific war-time pattern Mauser C96 that had been used back in the '70s. It has custom add-on parts of steel, and some of brass and aluminium. Some parts have been professionally salt-blued, others rust-blued, cold-blued or acid-treated by me. Again, dings and scratches have been replicated.
But since Star Wars went to crap and I hate it so much now, the gun is disassembled and stored away and I don't have a picture of the complete assembly.
Those are all epic pieces. I've never owned a gun or ever particularly wanted to but I do enjoy going to the gun range when I get the chance.
This one time in Dallas, I saw a pair of engraved double barrel shotguns priced at 250 a piece. Ahem... that's... $250,000 a piece.
Thank you very much. They're my fanciest guns, at present. I have plenty of other weird/random things though.
Range trips really are a lot of fun. I think more people need to experience them if they haven't, if only to get a chance to learn some important gun safety.
What the heck were those shotguns? Were they custom made and engraved in Liege, Belgium or something? I imagine they were over/unders, probably had some precious metal leaf, like gold, worked into the engraving too?
They were in Highland Park. That probably says it all.
What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz, pandemic threat protection ?
What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz, pandemic threat protection ?
Mossberg 500
What's a good price for these. So to confirm these are the end of the wurld Top Pix ?
KSG
Mossberg 500
Remington 870
What's a good price for these.
If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.
(Attachment Link)
Not the configuration that I would prefer, but it will work for now.
A Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 (though some of the more recent ones are said to have some quality control issues) should do fine too. You would probably want to avoid any of those shorty birdshead grip shotguns as aiming and firing them isn't exactly ideal.Show Image(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-9lyx5pfhw5/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/14058/13778/mossberg-shockwave-shotgun-50659__26144.1513113412.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on)
What's a good price for these.
Maverick 88 is the economy variant of Mossberg 500 and is around $250 brand new. That is the most reliable choice at a lower price point.
If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.
(Attachment Link)
Not the configuration that I would prefer, but it will work for now.
I never got this argument. So many people in the US talking about these sporterized modern Army rifles as if they were a good choice for a "survival situation".
Just no. 5.56 NATO is quite simply inadequate for many hunting applications. Most if not all Medium and of cause large game cannot be reliably taken down using such a intermediate cartridge. Same goes for taking down humans...
What you want is a Full powered rifle cartridge, at the very least a .308, ideally something bigger like 30-06 or 300 Win Mag.
A semi-auto rifle is not of much use in a survival situation, and tempts you to waste your ammo. They are more complex and inherently less reliable. Less easy to clean, maintain, repair etc.
You want a time-proven, rugged, simple Bolt-action chambered in a widely available full-powered military or hunting cartridge. Something like your enfield or a nice pre 64 Winchester 70 in 30-06 would be ideal. An optic would be nice too.Show Image(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/05/41/d1/0541d19ce66e24946f982d8bf80c5b29.jpg)
But certainly no 5.56 semi-auto.
Reading this thread makes me wonder if we should start mud testing keyboards....
Except I think a cheap ass rubberdome will survive better than our beloved mechanical wonders.
Also, for you gun owners out there, do you prefer tactile or clicky triggers? (I'm guessing a linear trigger would be REALLY bad idea)
A Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 (though some of the more recent ones are said to have some quality control issues) should do fine too. You would probably want to avoid any of those shorty birdshead grip shotguns as aiming and firing them isn't exactly ideal.Show Image(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-9lyx5pfhw5/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/14058/13778/mossberg-shockwave-shotgun-50659__26144.1513113412.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on)
This shows pretty well why a pistol grip only is a bad idea:
Now the real question is who are the Keyboard equivalents of Ian and Othias... I think Chyros gets my vote for "Keyboard Jesus".
Now the real question is who are the Keyboard equivalents of Ian and Othias... I think Chyros gets my vote for "Keyboard Jesus".Chyros would have to grow some hair first, like Ian's.
You never got the argument, because you're not addressing the argument.
I don't think anybody advocates for 5.56 for hunting, besides for coyote, etc. That has nothing to do with a breakdown of society. 5.56 is plenty for human targets, when you're not talking about level 4 body armor, and affords you the sweet spot for follow-up shots and/or maintaining situational awareness without a major decrease in effective range, etc. There's a reason that most of the modern world moved away from 8mm, 7.62 (Which NATO even wanted to avoid back in the 50s if it weren't for the U.S.' insistence), etc. It meant less ammo carried, smaller magazine capacity, and more recoil, with no significant practical benefits besides effective range and barrier penetration. M1 Carbines were a common sight in the pacific theater of WWII. These were chambered in the .30 carbine cartridge, which is modernly smeared as an anemic cartridge, and even against some of the fiercest combatants we've ever faced, users had nothing but praise for these rifles. I have read that people would literally ditch M1 Garands (as great of a rifle as this was) in .30-60 if they could get their hands on an M1 Carbine because of how light and handy they were.
The AR-10 has already been mentioned, this is an AR chambered in 7.62 NATO/.308. If I seriously only wanted one rifle for both a breakdown of society and hunting, and could have nothing else, I suppose I would go with that. I don't need to make that choice. I have 3 sporterized M1917 rifles chambered in .30-06, a Yugoslavian M48a in 8mm Mauser, and a Finnish M39 in 7.62x54r. I think I'm set on hunting rifles.
There are those that would say that anything with more energy than .308 is even overkill for the average deer and can needlessly destroy good meat. Many in the U.S. find the sweet spot to be around .30-30. What are you hunting with .300 Win Mag? Elk? We don't have many things that big in the continental U.S.
Semi autos being inherently less reliable would have been true 70 or 80 years ago. Today, that depends on the scenario. There are tests out there, like from InrangeTV, that show that the AR-15 platform can literally be covered in mud and continue to function perfectly regardless so long as the bolt isn't locked back and you dump it inside of the action. On a bolt-action rifle, most of the action is exposed. If you're in very adverse conditions, that can lock a bolt gun down entirely if debris gets into the action. This goes for other situations as well, like ice. Greenland apparently still favors the aforementioned M1917 in extremely cold climates where you may have ice build-up on the action, as it was the best rifle they could find ... since we gave them to them in the 1940s, for continued operation in such an environment. They still use them partly for that reason. The AK, for an example of a semi auto, was also designed with this strength in mind (This is a known weakness of the AR platform, due to tight tolerances).
Modern AR-15s and AKs (and maybe other alternatives) have also been tested to function perfectly for 10s of thousands of rounds straight, without any cleaning whatsoever. Modern lubricious finishes, like Nitride, etc, also help with this.
All that being said, a semi auto, even the best design, is more likely than a bolt gun to suffer a malfunction due to poorly-manufactured ammunition. For whatever that's worth, and however likely it may be if you buy something reputable from a factory.
Another consideration is that any cheap off-the-rack AR-10 is usually going to have a free-float handguard, meaning you've got an entirely free-floated barrel (a premium option in most bolt guns), and there's no traditional stock that the receiver may need to be bedded into to additionally improve accuracy ... as the AR platform was designed, and is implemented, based on extremely tight tolerances allowed by modern machining. You can assemble a sub MOA rifle yourself with a fraction of the cash, time, or knowledge that would be required to get a similarly precise bolt rifle. It will have lower recoil in any given caliber to boot, as a benefit of its gas system.
I think that if anybody is taking multiple shots at game, they probably haven't prepared well enough to begin with, or are taking inherently unethical shots, so I consider that a moot point.
I often wonder, if I ever finally get my hunting license, if I should just use an iron-sighted bolt gun or lever gun. The giant endless woods that is Wisconsin is too dense and hilly for even a 4x scope to be of much use in most situations.
some people take issue with some of the ... cost cutting measures that go into the design
Now the real question is who are the Keyboard equivalents of Ian and Othias... I think Chyros gets my vote for "Keyboard Jesus".Chyros would have to grow some hair first, like Ian's.
You are mostly referring to the development of arms in a military context here, I am not. A "survival rifle" does not equal a military battle or assault rifle. 5.56 being "good enough" is not good enough. You always want something that is more than adequate. Full powered rounds like .308 and up are proven to have much greater lethality on both animals AND humans. Read reports from field medics.
Little recoil for fast follow-up shots and great mag. capacity are important for an army gun, not such much for a hunting or "survival" rifle. Id rather have a more powerful round I know can do any job and trade that for lower capacity (5 rounds are plenty), then an intermediate round which may be adequate for most jobs.
Most rifles, bolt action or not, outperform the shooter in terms of accuracy by a large margin. Accuracy is never going to be a problem no matter what gun, and depends much more on ammunition, cartridge and range/windage/weather then anything else.
Semi autos simply function less reliably with low quality or old ammo, both of which one is likely to be shooting after a wile in a “breakdown or society” scenario, rather than quality factory-new ammo that may run well in your AR.
A rifle one would want in a survival situation requires long term reliability, simplicity of construction and the ability to function in a wide variety of environments, temperatures and with a wide variety of Ammunition, regardless of manufacturer or condition/age. It is simply a fact that a bolt action performs better in these regards then any semi or fully automatic rifle ever will. End of Argument. [/size]
some people take issue with some of the ... cost cutting measures that go into the design
Kind of like the way people have issues with the cost-cutting measures that morphed the Model F into the Model M?
Reading this thread makes me wonder if we should start mud testing keyboards....
Except I think a cheap ass rubberdome will survive better than our beloved mechanical wonders.
For reference:
Also, for you gun owners out there, do you prefer tactile or clicky triggers? (I'm guessing a linear trigger would be REALLY bad idea)
I would relate a .38 special as the closest firearm that would be nearly linear, or at least the version my mom had that I got to use at the range. Only firearm I have currently is a Taurus Millenium Pro PT145 - I've had it for 8 years and has been an amazing pistol, especially for its compact size (also mine hasn't suffered from the recall issue they supposedly have). A nice .45 10 +1 round capacity that can be concealed with ease in a pocket or proper concealed holster. I bought it as my 30th birthday gift to myself.
This thing is rad, I really want one. 1911 Dueller Prismatic, one of the most American handguns I ever did see.
(Attachment Link)
I would relate a .38 special as the closest firearm that would be nearly linear, or at least the version my mom had that I got to use at the range. Only firearm I have currently is a Taurus Millenium Pro PT145 - I've had it for 8 years and has been an amazing pistol, especially for its compact size (also mine hasn't suffered from the recall issue they supposedly have). A nice .45 10 +1 round capacity that can be concealed with ease in a pocket or proper concealed holster. I bought it as my 30th birthday gift to myself.
By .38 special, do you mean something like a Smith & Wesson? If so, you make a good point. Revolver triggers are not all created equal, but that's something I hadn't really thought about. A good old Smith is going to have what can only be described as a perfectly smooth pull in either single or double action. There's still a click when the hammer falls, and the lockwork usually makes some noise, but there's not really a tactile event in some of those old wheelguns. My Taurus Model 85 is not so well-endowed, but in single action it is relatively the same ... once I did a lot of dry fire with it.
I have drooled over Taurus' millennium series for years. I imagine that PT145 is probably one of the few handguns like it ever produced, being an extremely small double stack .45. I wouldn't mind owning one myself if I ever come across one. I have a descendant in the G2C. It is currently my go-to carry gun. Ironic, considering I have a beautiful Sig P238 and P938, which I used to carry, just sitting in the safe.
I figure this is long overdue. Post some of your favorite firearms. Maybe we could start a separate conversation thread or two as well that's less generalized.
I'll start with one of my favorite rifles, a sporterized U.S. M1917 rifle. It appears that the original barrel has not been cut down from the standard 26 inches.Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/43/2d/cFExscAi_o.jpg)
The Monte Carlo stock, which doesn't seem to be made of particularly fancy wood, is beautifully hand checkered.Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/38/3e/8qLvIPjx_o.jpg)Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/27/d0/x9dS4itH_o.jpg)Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/4c/06/vHmIEltT_o.jpg)Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/fe/08/3TGO53gG_o.jpg)
As you can already see, at one point the the trigger guard and magazine floor plate were meticulously hand engraved, all metal parts were polished, and then blued in alternating traditional blue and plum blue colors. My guess is that, at least with the engraving, the work was probably done soon after the occupation of Japan after WWII, as a possible maker's or owner's name was engraved on the inside of most of the engraved parts in Japanese Katakana.Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/64/80/P2OTSneY_o.jpg)Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/9d/79/uOOjkKGf_o.jpg)Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/f5/20/NI0a5X24_o.jpg)Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/3d/0d/YgV4eQZg_o.jpg)
The scope is just an old Bushmaster 4x that I thought would fit the rifle well. Surprisingly, this rifle cost me less than $300 ... because nobody cares about sporterized milsurps. I don't even want to know what a new production, or even used/vintage commercial rifle with these features would cost me.
Next is a beautiful Lisa Tomlin 1 of 400 Colt Engravers Series 1911. These, apparently, are not exactly engraved. The design is created by the engraver, and they are etched and polished, etc. I still think that this is beautiful, and I plan on putting it in a display case at some point.Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/6a/02/PAlcgK9b_o.jpg)Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/77/e7/uTHdERSK_o.jpg)Show Image(https://images2.imgbox.com/46/a8/t65PBhAy_o.jpg)
I would relate a .38 special as the closest firearm that would be nearly linear, or at least the version my mom had that I got to use at the range. Only firearm I have currently is a Taurus Millenium Pro PT145 - I've had it for 8 years and has been an amazing pistol, especially for its compact size (also mine hasn't suffered from the recall issue they supposedly have). A nice .45 10 +1 round capacity that can be concealed with ease in a pocket or proper concealed holster. I bought it as my 30th birthday gift to myself.
By .38 special, do you mean something like a Smith & Wesson? If so, you make a good point. Revolver triggers are not all created equal, but that's something I hadn't really thought about. A good old Smith is going to have what can only be described as a perfectly smooth pull in either single or double action. There's still a click when the hammer falls, and the lockwork usually makes some noise, but there's not really a tactile event in some of those old wheelguns. My Taurus Model 85 is not so well-endowed, but in single action it is relatively the same ... once I did a lot of dry fire with it.
I have drooled over Taurus' millennium series for years. I imagine that PT145 is probably one of the few handguns like it ever produced, being an extremely small double stack .45. I wouldn't mind owning one myself if I ever come across one. I have a descendant in the G2C. It is currently my go-to carry gun. Ironic, considering I have a beautiful Sig P238 and P938, which I used to carry, just sitting in the safe.
The S&W my mom had was a hammerless option (no visible external hammer). That was an a fun gun to shoot along w/. I've been eyeing the replacement for the PT145 since Taurus updated them (some had a defect where the trigger would activate even w/ the safety engaged - of course when storing I always used the built in lock). Also my uncle has been thinking of off-loading his HK vp40 - trying to persuade him to pass it on to me (thanks to his neighbor he's been getting amazing deals on firearms).
I'm excited that my father-in-law and I get to start teaching my son about firearm safety and use (he'll be 6 on the 21st) - so far he's enjoyed his nerf guns and we've started allowing him to use the air-rifle (highly supervised of course) to do target shooting in the back yard. Reason why I'm more excited is due to the fact FiL recently picked up a nice AR-15 variant that I want to ping some targets with at the farm/hunting property - always love shooting rifles more than anything else.
I need to go outside Offtopic more often. Othewise, how would I know that people find SVD beautiful.
What beauties! Those are really nice looking.
My latest project is a 10/22 Takedown with a Magpul Backpacker stock.
The only thing left on it that is Ruger is the receiver. Everything else is aftermarket.
Got my pup geared up too :D
A couple of my .45s:
This 442 is with me more than any other:
276 Padersen
I love guns. Went to a range in Vegas and shot everything they had. Unfortunately they're heavily regulated here and near impossible to get a concealed carry permit. If mine ever gets accepted I plan on getting a Five Seven.
...This MK IV is one of the recent manufacture O1970A1CS which Colt discontinued a couple of years ago. No colleted barrel bushing, just a plain GI-style setup.
Very nice. I always took you for a .45 guy. Must be the profile picture. Does that MKIV still have a collet bushing? I have a nickel MKIV. Those bushings sure look fragile.
...
Before I went to the range I shot a 357 Magnum (when I was like 8 or 9), S&W 9mm - can't remember which one exactly, and a Saiga-12. When I went to the range in Vegas, it was on a business trip so I didn't have much leisure time so I bought the biggest package they offered and shot more guns than I can remember.. Notable mentions were the M249 SAW, AK74-SU, Uzi, Thompson, Desert Eagle, M4, M16, and an MP5. I have a video of it in my archives somewhere but the quality is potato.
I'd rather not say where, but I'm in a 3rd world country, gotta grease a few palms or be somebody of note to get a license.
As for an actual CCW I've always considered a Beretta, or one of the Glock variants. But again, I've never got the chance to test any of these, and I wouldn't buy a gun without getting to shoot it, which is something I'd have to fly to the states to do.
...This MK IV is one of the recent manufacture O1970A1CS which Colt discontinued a couple of years ago. No colleted barrel bushing, just a plain GI-style setup.
Very nice. I always took you for a .45 guy. Must be the profile picture. Does that MKIV still have a collet bushing? I have a nickel MKIV. Those bushings sure look fragile.
...
Right, I forgot they kept making the MKIV when they stopped making series 70s. Did you have stippling done on the commander?
Right, I forgot they kept making the MKIV when they stopped making series 70s. Did you have stippling done on the commander?
I found the Commander used in a gun shop. It was manufactured in 1991 & someone had the stippling done and the grip safety changed at some point.
Nice. Did you get it for a good price? It looks like they did a good job cutting that beavertail I can't imagine they were doing Novak rear sights from the factory on any models way back then either. The trigger looks custom as well. I imagine they took all of the pretravel and overtravel out of it? Nice crisp break?
Nice. Did you get it for a good price? It looks like they did a good job cutting that beavertail I can't imagine they were doing Novak rear sights from the factory on any models way back then either. The trigger looks custom as well. I imagine they took all of the pretravel and overtravel out of it? Nice crisp break?
The price was $700. I was shoving my money at the salesman so fast I almost poked him in the eye. The trigger pull is marvelous. I'm not nearly as finicky about 1911 triggers as a lot of folks but that doesn't mean I don't recognize or appreciate a pistol with a nice trigger. This one's great.
What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz, pandemic threat protection ?
If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.
I never got this argument. So many people in the US talking about these sporterized modern Army rifles as if they were a good choice for a "survival situation".
Same goes for taking down humans...I suppose that's why it's preferred by every police force in the US and most countries, plus the militaries in the US, France, Germany, Canada, the United Kingdom, why Russia moved to the 5.45, why China issues a similar idea with the 5.8x42...
You want a time-proven, rugged, simple Bolt-action chambered in a widely available full-powered military or hunting cartridge. Something like your enfield or a nice pre 64 Winchester 70 in 30-06 would be ideal.Guns listed here that have broken on me: 2x Enfields
You are mostly referring to the development of arms in a military context here, I am not. A "survival rifle" does not equal a military battle or assault rifle. 5.56 being "good enough" is not good enough. You always want something that is more than adequate. Full powered rounds like .308 and up are proven to have much greater lethality on both animals AND humans. Read reports from field medics.
Little recoil for fast follow-up shots and great mag. capacity are important for an army gun, not such much for a hunting or "survival" rifle. Id rather have a more powerful round I know can do any job and trade that for lower capacity (5 rounds are plenty), then an intermediate round which may be adequate for most jobs.You're confusing the fantasy of surviving off the land by hunting for your food with the reality of surviving a lethal encounter with one or more aggressors. Get a hunting rifle for hunting. Get a fighting rifle for fighting. If you're only going to have one, the likelihood and urgency of being able to survive an aggressor or group of aggressors is significantly higher than the likelihood of hunting for your food through the woods undisturbed. And if you are having to survive an actual fight, 5 rounds very likely is not plenty.
Semi autos simply function less reliably with low quality or old ammo, both of which one is likely to be shooting after a wile in a “breakdown or society” scenario, rather than quality factory-new ammo that may run well in your AR. A rifle one would want in a survival situation requires long term reliability, simplicity of construction and the ability to function in a wide variety of environments, temperatures and with a wide variety of Ammunition, regardless of manufacturer or condition/age. It is simply a fact that a bolt action performs better in these regards then any semi or fully automatic rifle ever will. End of Argument.By the time that ammo has been so old to the point that it's reliability and effectiveness has degraded enough to not function reliably, none of us are still going to be around. If your AR requires only high-quality ammo to function, then it's a pretty garbage AR, and that's on you for building/buying poorly. Meanwhile I'll keep feeding mine low-pressured steel-case and watching it chug right along without question or complaint despite being caked in carbon from the suppressor for another few thousand rounds.
PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.
PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.
Nice P80 build! The 17 is my favorite glock. What do you think of the new lone wolf 80% lowers?
PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.
Nice P80 build! The 17 is my favorite glock. What do you think of the new lone wolf 80% lowers?
I haven't actually seen the Lone Wolf models, I know there's a few different designs out there now that are considered better but I like the P80 and got it for sale for like $75. :D I love the 17 in shooting but the grip is just that little bit more than I can conceal, so the CL frame fits perfect. Can't stand glock frames, but I am a huge fan of the p80 grip.
Rugged Radiant762 suppressor, 16" barrel, LaRue 12.0 quadrail, GG&G bipod, PRI scope mount, Vortex PST Gen 1 2.5-10x, BCM upper, Geissele SSA-E, ACE SOCOM stock.
My short boi:
Same suppressor, Rainier Select 8" 300blk, SLR Sentry 7 adjustable gas, V7 Magnesium hyper-light forend, Bootleg upper, Young MFG Ultralight BCG, PWS Mk1 Mod 2-M lower, MVB ARC-X Ti PDW stock. Weighs only a bit over 6lbs as configured. This rig alone is what keeps me from feeling like keyboards are really all that expensive. :'(
My daily-driver:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/sx26x6i.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vDv22Sh.jpg)
PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.
What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz, pandemic threat protection ?
Probably going to start a fight here but I'm okay with that because I really want to see people as best equipped and prepared as they can be - a shotgun is the worst option available. As others have mentioned, the go-to base standard in that regard is going to be the Mossberg 500. But for "threat protection," between rifles, pistols, and shotguns, the shotgun is going to be at the bottom of the list every single time with only one exception I'll cover in a bit. Compared to an AR or similar carbine, you give up capacity, ease of use, reliability, handling, basically everything that actually matters when it comes to defensive use.
- Capacity: 5 vs. 30 standard. "But you can get mag extensions!" Cool now you've got 8rds vs 30. Or 40. Or 60. "But I live in a restricted state so I can only have 10rd mags anyways." Well, reloading is going to be important, which goes into the next point.
- Ease of use: If you want to reload a shotgun you need to first have a good way to carry the shells (which is either a gaming rig or one by one), flip it over, push them in one by one (making sure that they go all the way in because otherwise it could jam), usually change hands somewhere here unless you're going with a more "gamer" method of doing it, then you can flip it back over, run the slide, re-shoulder, and try to hit the target again. Or, with an AR, you could stay on target, push button without moving your hand, stuff a new mag in, press the button that's conveniently right under your thumb already, and be right back at it. The learning curve and time needed to actually be good enough at reloading a shotgun for defensive situations is significantly higher.
- Reliability: You, or anyone else in your house that might need to pick it up, can't manually introduce short-stroking on an AR simply because they lack range/dry-fire time. This is not uncommon with a shotgun.
- Handling: 18" minimum barrel length, longer receivers, more front-heavy, off-set recoil vs. 16" minimum barrel length (or down to 10.5" if braced), shorter receiver (a non-adjustable stat), more centered weight, and inline recoil.
And this is only touching over 1 part of each. This doesn't get into malfunction clearing, rimmed vs. rimless ammo, plastic vs. brass casing, lights (which are a requirement for a defensive setup), slings (also a req), recoil, accuracy (yes, you still need to aim with a shotgun, and it's actually more difficult due to spread), etc etc.
Can a shotgun get the job done? Yes. But am I ever going to recommend it over a carbine? No. The one exception where I will is when budget is a serious concern - a good AR starts around $600 and goes up from there. You can get a Mossberg 500 or Maverick 88 for $2-400. If you're on a budget and really will not be able to save up a bit more for a better setup (even a trade-in or used gen3 Glock, which I'd still recommend over a shotgun), that's when the shotgun becomes the go-to, simply based off price alone. But this is generally going to be offset by the extra time required on the range (even with dry-fire) to reach even close to similar levels of proficiency as a carbine, so even then it'd be an extremely niche situation that I'd say to get a shotgun for price concerns.
tl;dr - there's very good reasons basically no unit or person that actually knows what they're doing fields shotguns anymore. Carbines are superior in every metric that matters for winning fights.
If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.
Another point for carbines actually - the 5.56/.223 has repeatedly been shown to overpenetrate less through household materials than defensive shotgun loads (buck, slugs). The simple fact is that guns are designed to penetrate - anything that's going to do it's job of going through a person sufficiently enough to be considered for defensive use is going to go through other materials - especially soft things like drywall - like it's hardly even there. But if you are actually concerned about it, 5.56 is going to win this one again. Your better options though regardless of platform are to know your shooting angles and do your utmost to avoid missing, both of which just require a lot of time on the range and in dry-fire.
I never got this argument. So many people in the US talking about these sporterized modern Army rifles as if they were a good choice for a "survival situation".
Because they are. Not for the "survival" situation as you're talking about, but "survival" as in "I need to survive whatever is immediately happening right in front of me because the police aren't picking up the phone since two city blocks are on fire."
For the "survival" fantasy of going out and living off the land - there's a litany of skills that people are going to need before caliber even begins to become a concern. It doesn't matter that the 5.56 isn't the best option for hunting most things when most people can't even hunt anyways. By the time that society has devolved to the point that you're hunting and foraging for your food to "survive," what caliber you have is no longer a concern.QuoteSame goes for taking down humans...I suppose that's why it's preferred by every police force in the US and most countries, plus the militaries in the US, France, Germany, Canada, the United Kingdom, why Russia moved to the 5.45, why China issues a similar idea with the 5.8x42...
While there are advantages to heavier and larger calibers such as 308 from a purely ballistics standpoint, they are nigh wholly countered by the rest of the considerations that you have to look at when considering an entire platform and setup. I have more than enough confidence in my 5.56 to take down threats at any range I would need to engage at and would be happy to provide the ballistic testing to back it up as to why.
QuoteYou want a time-proven, rugged, simple Bolt-action chambered in a widely available full-powered military or hunting cartridge. Something like your enfield or a nice pre 64 Winchester 70 in 30-06 would be ideal.Guns listed here that have broken on me: 2x Enfields
Guns listed here that have not broken on me: any AR15.
When your Enfield or 57+ year old rifle can get into the 4, let alone 5 digit round count without failure or breakage, let me know, but otherwise I'm going to keep sticking with AR's that I've known personally to manage exactly that.
PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.
Nice P80 build! The 17 is my favorite glock. What do you think of the new lone wolf 80% lowers?
I haven't actually seen the Lone Wolf models, I know there's a few different designs out there now that are considered better but I like the P80 and got it for sale for like $75. :D I love the 17 in shooting but the grip is just that little bit more than I can conceal, so the CL frame fits perfect. Can't stand glock frames, but I am a huge fan of the p80 grip.
How do you like that Vortex scope? I have thought about getting a variable optic but have never pulled the proverbial trigger. I hear good things about Vortex.
Am I to guess that's your home defense gun?
I never did understand the hubbub about stock Glock triggers
Did you see the above 20 round drum? I have 3 more.
Your points mostly only apply to traditional pump-actions
it could be argued that most are moot anyway since in a home defense situation you're unlikely to need more than a handful of shots anyway
I haven't heard of a sling being considered a requirement for a defensive arm. I imagine you have some specific reasoning for this?
Difficulty in hitting with a shotgun may be the case with a seriously wrong combination of range, barrel length, choke and ammunition choice
A lot of people actually advocate for birdshot since it can inflict tremendous damage at close range without even penetrating a single wall behind the target.
the traditional/colloquial Lee-Enfield chambered in .303
I was going to ask how you're lugging that Glock 17 slide around.
I would love to have Ruger Precision rifle magnum.£2,295.00 Inc VAT, wow.
I don't know how hard is to acquire papers for this in UK, but will look into it at some point.
I would love to have Ruger Precision rifle magnum.£2,295.00 Inc VAT, wow.
I don't know how hard is to acquire papers for this in UK, but will look into it at some point.
QuoteA lot of people actually advocate for birdshot since it can inflict tremendous damage at close range without even penetrating a single wall behind the target.
I find "a lot of people" haven't bothered to actually look up ballistics. :)) Birdshot isn't what I'd consider "tremendous damage," it is what I'd consider "unreliable." If it's not going to go through drywall, it's absolutely not trustworthy to go through a person.
Quotethe traditional/colloquial Lee-Enfield chambered in .303
Yup! Except it wasn't rimlock, it was straight up failure to fire on multiple rounds, both modern and old production. I've also had failures with the 1917, 03A3, and other surplus. I haven't had failures with my Yugo Mauser or Garand, but nigh every other surplus platform I've gotten behind has failed me for gun-related (not ammo) issues. This is anecdotal, obviously. But "time-proven" and "bolt action" doesn't always equal the best choice for modern problems.
QuoteI was going to ask how you're lugging that Glock 17 slide around.
19 grip, great holster, and luck with both genetics and job. :D Being able to wear loose t-shirts and jeans to my office is great. If I had to dress in business casual, tuck my shirt in, or wasn't built as I am physically, it wouldn't work and I'd be rocking a Shield or P30SK instead.
Not gonna lie though, I'm more than a little jealous of that Jericho...such a lovely pistol.
And thank you for the good discussion! It's nice having reasonable talks on these topics when they can get so heated. :thumb:
I would love to have Ruger Precision rifle magnum.
I don't know how hard is to acquire papers for this in UK, but will look into it at some point.
I would love to have Ruger Precision rifle magnum.£2,295.00 Inc VAT, wow.
I don't know how hard is to acquire papers for this in UK, but will look into it at some point.
Is that expensive for sniper rifle?
I'm don't really know.
Regular version .308 (non-Magnum) is a lot cheaper, I think around £1800.
I'm not sure which would be better (and better for what?), but MAGNUM sounds niiiice :D
I guess it makes bigger holes :))
I think I would need to apply for some papers first here in UK, just getting into this subject...
Is that expensive for sniper rifle?
I'm don't really know.
Regular version .308 (non-Magnum) is a lot cheaper, I think around £1800.
I'm not sure which would be better (and better for what?), but MAGNUM sounds niiiice :D
I guess it makes bigger holes :))
I think I would need to apply for some papers first here in UK, just getting into this subject...
I imagine, if anything, it needed a new striker/firing pin spring.
HK really has some voodoo going no with their recoil management. Not sure why. It isn't like they're the only ones making dual recoil spring setups.
That's actually a pretty good bargain for a long-range precision rifle, depending on how precise you really feel you need to go.
Look into something like the Desert Tech SRS-A2, or your own wonderful Accuracy International rifles if you want to see what precision rifles often sell for. ;)
I'm no expert on precision rifles, but if you want to put that much money into a rifle like that, you might want a cartridge that's flatter shooting with better accuracy potential, like 6.5 Creedmoor.
As far as magnum rounds goes, it depends. Magnum rounds are usually just very high velocity, which wouldn't make any larger of a hole than a projectile of the same diameter. It would just have a flatter trajectory and create a larger permanent wound channel due to cavitation.
any mugger try to come at me I'll shoot them with my poor man's gunThis gun shoots sepsis, and doesn't even make a bang!Show Image(https://blog.knife-depot.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/rusty-knife.jpg)