Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)

[bpiphany]

Shouldn't the drill hole for the ISO Left Shift be slightly to the right? It should align precisely with the Left Ctrl and Caps Lock, I think.

That is one of the slots... You can see the extent of the slots on the copper. And that copper oval extends to the correct location =)

[Wraul]

I think this might have been asked previously, unfortunately I cant find it now though. Sorry for asking again if that's the case.

Will the ISOWIN plate have extra holes in the right section like the 7BIT plate?
It would be nice to have sort of a semi numpad.

[bpiphany]

I think this might have been asked previously, unfortunately I cant find it now though. Sorry for asking again if that's the case.

Will the ISOWIN plate have extra holes in the right section like the 7BIT plate?
It would be nice to have sort of a semi numpad.

Yes all plates will have the extra cutouts above the arrow cluster. Please note that they will not be accessible with the Filco case, at least not without cutting into it...

[7bit]

Yes all plates will have the extra cutouts above the arrow cluster. Please note that they will not be accessible with the Filco case, at least not without cutting into it...

[size=8]Congratulations!

You've posted the 256th post in this thread!

You won a Phantom PCB![/size]

[/color]

[Wraul]

Yes all plates will have the extra cutouts above the arrow cluster. Please note that they will not be accessible with the Filco case, at least not without cutting into it...

Thanks. Now I'm happy

Congratulations!

You've posted the 256th post in this thread!

You won a Phantom PCB!

And now I'm sad for missing that free PCB by one post

[bpiphany]

And now I'm sad for missing that free PCB by one post

Either that was an automated response, or he's just pulling your leg.. I will have a PCB anyways =P

[tsangan]

7bit is definitely trolling :fish:

[litster]

And PrinsValium has one more bit than 7bit.  PrinsValium, you are now known as 8bit.  

8bit -> 256

[Wraul]

Either that was an automated response, or he's just pulling your leg.. I will have a PCB anyways =P

Grrr 7bit is such a bully

[bpiphany]

I actually turned 6bit in September, and made a big thing about it. I became "jämnjämnjämnjämnjämngammal" ("jämn"=even/round, "gammal"=old). We usually say we turn a "round numbered" age at 25, 40, 50 so on, I think that is what is called a round number in English. The Swedish word four "round" and "even" is the same. So it is a little nerdy to make a big thing about turning 32 =D We also build longer words by writing short ones together. A skipping rope is a "hopprep", "hopp rep" would be nonsense in Swedish.

[7bit]

Either that was an automated response, or he's just pulling your leg.. I will have a PCB anyways =P

But now, you officially won one!

I hope you appreciate it!

So you are now a hundred thousand years old.

Impressive age you've got!

BTW:
Hopprep sounds much more like what it really is. Don't get what they skip with it.

[Autolyze]

I'm still torn on this. Anyone want to convince me to get a 7bit layout Phantom or to pass this time?

Including a Poker I'm waiting on from the current Poker group buy, I've picked up seven mechanical keyboards in the last four months. I told myself and numerous friends that I was going to hold off on more keyboards for a few months, but... I don't normally have a chance to get a programmable keyboard with a ridiculous number of keys in a standard tenkeyless size. I'm cool with screwing around with the Teensy firmware, but I don't have a good way of doing much with the hardware-side of things.

Would it be practical to do a Phantom without a cover plate, seeing as how there probably won't be one that's compatible with the 7bit layout? Or does anyone have any particular plans about what they'll be doing in terms of cases for 7bit boards?

[kps]

I don't normally have a chance to get a programmable keyboard with a ridiculous number of keys in a standard tenkeyless size.

Don't forget you can also go over to Round 4 to get interesting and useful caps for that ridiculous number of keys.

Would it be practical to do a Phantom without a cover plate, seeing as how there probably won't be one that's compatible with the 7bit layout? Or does anyone have any particular plans about what they'll be doing in terms of cases for 7bit boards?

It seems to me that if you stuff the latest PCB full of keys, the top cover becomes ridiculously simple:

[TheProfosist]

All talk and no business!! But now at least it is official I have no life... I added the extra switch locations to the function row that 7bit requested. Had to ditch the helper-holes for F5-F8 (who is going to hot swap their F-key stems anyway?). Did some icky rerouting and got all switches attached to the electrical wiring. So no jumper wires will be necessary (the logical matrix locations of the extra two keys are a bit off though).

I think stem change should be possible even without the holes (if it works at all..) It should be possible to get them open like this The holes in the PCB are only there to make it a bit easier. Myself I wouldn't mind dropping all the quick-stem features to have a cleaner board and plate, but that isn't up to me... =P

Teaser! White round things are holes, slots doesn't render correctly as usual...

Show Image

does this mean that extra switches can be put in the function row?

I actually turned 6bit in September, and made a big thing about it. I became "jämnjämnjämnjämnjämngammal" ("jämn"=even/round, "gammal"=old). We usually say we turn a "round numbered" age at 25, 40, 50 so on, I think that is what is called a round number in English. The Swedish word four "round" and "even" is the same. So it is a little nerdy to make a big thing about turning 32 =D We also build longer words by writing short ones together. A skipping rope is a "hopprep", "hopp rep" would be nonsense in Swedish.

Would a well designed layout convince you? http://tinyurl.com/d9lqxwr

Don't forget you can also go over to Round 4 to get interesting and useful caps for that ridiculous number of keys.

It seems to me that if you stuff the latest PCB full of keys, the top cover becomes ridiculously simple:

Show Image

I would like to confirm if thats what the new PCB looks like as well because then I have more to work with and I am going to have to update my layout.


Also anyone have any ideas yet on a case for the 7bit layout? I dont need something as nice as a filco case but at least something so theres not just a PCB sitting on my desk and have the ability to move it without it all coming apart.

[7bit]

does this mean that extra switches can be put in the function row?


Would a well designed layout convince you? http://tinyurl.com/d9lqxwr



I would like to confirm if thats what the new PCB looks like as well because then I have more to work with and I am going to have to update my layout.


Also anyone have any ideas yet on a case for the 7bit layout? I dont need something as nice as a filco case but at least something so theres not just a PCB sitting on my desk and have the ability to move it without it all coming apart.

My recommendation is still to just get a backplate, wood or metal from the mount-plate manufacturer.

Maybe some thing to cover the sides as well. Bute surely, there is no need to have cover plate for this.

It is not like you look at the naked PCB. There is a cover already (the mount plate).

[TheProfosist]

My recommendation is still to just get a backplate, wood or metal from the mount-plate manufacturer.

Maybe some thing to cover the sides as well. Bute surely, there is no need to have cover plate for this.

It is not like you look at the nacked PCB. There is a cover already (the mount plate).

The back and possibly sides would be great, it would be even better if it screwed in and kept the basic angle that keyboards normally have. And I agree there is no need for a cover plate because the mounting plate is already there.

[7bit]

[Tarkoon]

It would be enough if the mounting plate wo be about 25cm longer to the front, then you could just fold it to the back and use it as stand. And the angle of the keyboard would be adjustable too with that!
Just like a >
And if you like your keyboard a little bit higher you could just fold it two times in the front.
This way height and angle would be adjustable.

Edit: Or fold again up the last few cm in the back to nearly close the backside of the keybard. (with a gap for the cable)

All that would look really clean and do a great job as case - a little bit like the corair keyboard... ;-)

Edit2:
This company ( http://www.schaeffer-ag.de/index.php?id=8&L=1 ) would also be a possibility to get the plates at a good price. I know many people getting individual pc case fronts from there...
I would offer to create a case with their design tool in a few hours at home.
How thick must a plate for plate mounted MX be? (minimum and maximum please)

[alaricljs]

Everything you ever wanted to know about switch dimensions is here.  But the quick answer is .06 +- .004 inch.

[Tarkoon]

Uh, I just saw they increased their prices in the last years... =(
A full "case" as I described it would be be about 100€.
5-9 = 90€
10-19 = 80€
20-29 = 70€

So BiNiaRiS vendor seems to be much cheaper.
Perhaps he can just add the material to the front side of the plate...

[TheProfosist]

Show Image

looks like that answers my question about weather the pcb has been updated and is capable of more switches.

Everything you ever wanted to know about switch dimensions is here.  But the quick answer is .06 +- .004 inch.

I would say make the plate as thick as you can (within the specifications of course) as thicker plates feel studier.

Uh, I just saw they increased their prices in the last years... =(
A full "case" as I described it would be be about 100€.
5-9 = 90€
10-19 = 80€
20-29 = 70€

So BiNiaRiS vendor seems to be much cheaper.
Perhaps he can just add the material to the frint side of the plate...

If your going to do something like that do something like what was done with the DOX keyboard

[TheProfosist]

Everything you ever wanted to know about switch dimensions is here.  But the quick answer is .06 +- .004 inch.

I would say make the plate as thick as you can (within the specifications of course) as thicker plates feel studier.

[kps]

How thick must a plate for plate mounted MX be?

Everything you ever wanted to know about switch dimensions is here.  But the quick answer is .06 +- .004 inch.

If you're in North America, the really quick answer to take to your local metal vendor is 1/16 inch.

[alaricljs]

Nevermind... decimal point failure... brain crashing.

[Tarkoon]

If you're in North America, the really quick answer to take to your local metal vendor is 1/16 inch.

I'm in Germany, so I had to convert it to 1,5mm... ^^

[Findecanor]

I actually turned 6bit in September, and made a big thing about it. I became "jämnjämnjämnjämnjämngammal" ("jämn"=even/round, "gammal"=old). We usually say we turn a "round numbered" age at 25, 40, 50 so on, I think that is what is called a round number in English. The Swedish word four "round" and "even" is the same. So it is a little nerdy to make a big thing about turning 32 =D

When I turned 32, I used to say that I turned 2⁵. I thought you were 25 (decimal) or so years old.

[Dezeer]

I sent on order PHISOWINREDKIT 1, but I got an empty receipt, is the normal PHISOREDKIT with or without WIN backplate?

[bpiphany]

When I turned 32, I used to say that I turned 2⁵. I thought you were 25 (decimal) or so years old.

Yes, I do look young and firm, don't I? =)

[HaveANiceDay]

Yes, I do look young and firm, don't I? =)

Such a stud!

[litster]

We are for rEaLz, ripster!    

Well, the PCB and the plates for sure.  Still waiting for Cherry switch quotes from Germany.  We Kaiserriech found a source in China who can also get use switches and sounds like there is no minimum order, but most likely at a higher price.  Stabilizers remain to be elusive.  Worst case would be to source them from used G80 POS keyboards on ebay.  That's actually the cheapest way to get switches and stabilizers.  No one seems to have spacebar stabilizers of any size though.  In fact, no one can source costar stabilizer metal wires.

[Autolyze]

Okay, screw it, I'm going for it. PMing Phantom now with this order:

TEENSY 1
PHANTOM 1
PH7BIT 1
MXCLEAR 105
DIODE 125
LEDBLUE 2
BACKPLATE 1
BACKSCREWS 1
PHANTOMFUN 1
SOLDERING 1

Let me know if anyone sees any horrific problems with that.

How many LEDs would this easily support anyway? I don't plan on using the standard caps/scroll lock setup, but I'd like to use them to indicate different layers and/or other fun things that come to me.

Edit: Depending on what the switch prices end up looking like, I might also be down for some blue switches.

[litster]

My recommendation is still to just get a backplate, wood or metal from the mount-plate manufacturer.

Maybe some thing to cover the sides as well. Bute surely, there is no need to have cover plate for this.

It is not like you look at the naked PCB. There is a cover already (the mount plate).

Dox made his custom keyboard and he did something similar to what you suggest:  http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:19227

[RColinTaylor]

I have always looked at this project as an organized, and therefore cheaper, version of the Dox with some more complex aspects and possibilities.

[TheProfosist]

Dox made his custom keyboard and he did something similar to what you suggest:  http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:19227

Show Image

Show Image

Yes, I did bring this up before but no one said anything. I think that it is a fine idea, we need someone to design it though and one person to be the guinea pig and pick one up to test it out and work out all of the kinks.

I have always looked at this project as an organized, and therefore cheaper, version of the Dox with some more complex aspects and possibilities.

Same here, though I am also going to build a DOX since I have that almost worked out.

[litster]

I have always looked at this project as an organized, and therefore cheaper, version of the Dox with some more complex aspects and possibilities.

Yes, I did bring this up before but no one said anything. I think that it is a fine idea, we need someone to design it though and one person to be the guinea pig and pick one up to test it out and work out all of the kinks.


Same here, though I am also going to build a DOX since I have that almost worked out.

I don't know how much Dox's keyboard is going to cost, but I don't think Phantom would be much cheaper, if at all.  Phantom uses more switches, more keycaps, has a high grade PCB, a PCB design that supports very many different configurations, and multiple versions of mounting plates.  I do hope we can drive down the price as much as possible.  I don't know how BiNiaRiS found a shop that can get plates done so cheap.  I checked with a couple of shops close to me and they both want at least 4 times as much as BiNiaRiS's quote.  The final price is going to depend on how cheaply we can source all parts.

The 4 of us have already put in seed money to start this, and we will need to put in a few hundred dollars for prototypes before we can start collecting money from you group-buyers to get final parts.  and potentially not get the seed money back if the plan doesn't come together.  Just like Dox and other people who build their custom keyboards, we do it for the fun of it.

[RColinTaylor]

A Dox board can cost around $300 in the end; everything is bought in non-bulk and therefore showroom prices.

[litster]

They also need switches, right?  Maybe we can combine their switch orders with ours to bring up the volume and lower the price.

[RColinTaylor]

A Dox is more of an individual type project; I don't think there is a Dox group buy or anything going on. Dox just put up his custom board and instructions on how to do it/where to get everything and a rough price of what it will cost.

[litster]

Well, if timing works for the Dox builders, they can just order switches from the Phantom group buy.

[TheProfosist]

They also need switches, right?  Maybe we can combine their switch orders with ours to bring up the volume and lower the price.

I was planing on getting my switches for my DOX through this order if that is ok

A Dox is more of an individual type project; I don't think there is a Dox group buy or anything going on. Dox just put up his custom board and instructions on how to do it/where to get everything and a rough price of what it will cost.

that is the case 2-3 of us are doing builds but their all somewhat different

Well, if timing works for the Dox builders, they can just order switches from the Phantom group buy.

that would be great! I plan to add my phantom order along with the needed parts for the dox once we finish working things out as we have changed much of the original plan for the better.

[ishtob]

yup im planning on ordering some switches for my DOX project too, also probably going to build a phantom for my GF... just hope it can be before christmas... Was going to give her my 2 DOX boards I got so far, but she insisted on having those F#'s

[litster]

It is unlikely, if not impossible, to get it shipped and received before Christmas.  We would be lucky to have 1 prototype done before the new year.  If we are lucky, we might be able to order the first 2 test PCBs 2 weeks from now.  

You need to starting thinking about your Christmas gift backup plan :-)

[TheProfosist]

It is unlikely, if not impossible, to get it shipped and received before Christmas.  We would be lucky to have 1 prototype done before the new year.  If we are lucky, we might be able to order the first 2 test PCBs 2 weeks from now.  

You need to starting thinking about your Christmas gift backup plan :-)

well thats actually good for me so that I can get cash together.

[ishtob]

It is unlikely, if not impossible, to get it shipped and received before Christmas.  We would be lucky to have 1 prototype done before the new year.  If we are lucky, we might be able to order the first 2 test PCBs 2 weeks from now.  

You need to starting thinking about your Christmas gift backup plan :-)

k thanks for the heads up!

[7bit]

I was planing on getting my switches for my DOX through this order if that is ok

Yes, carry on! Order more!

Maybe I really should set up a switch group buy thread.

Code: [Select]

PHANTOM..........45
TEENSY...........36
PH7BIT...........12
PHANSI...........18
PHANSIWIN.........8
PHISO.............2
PHISOWIN..........5
BACKPLATE.........1
BACKSCREWS........1
DIODE..........2511
LEDBLUE...........4
MXBLACK.........566
MXBLUE..........188
MXBROWN.........768
MXCLEAR.........979
MXGREEN..........28
MXGREY...........22
MXRED...........710
STAB200..........40
STAB400...........5
STAB625...........3<-------------------no 6.25 units stabilisers found yet.
STAB700..........10
CASE..............6<-------------------no case currently
PHANTOMFUN........8
SOLDERING.........5


[Dezeer]

I sent on order PHISOWINREDKIT 1, but I got an empty receipt, is the normal PHISOREDKIT with or without WIN backplate?

7bit, why do you ignore me?

[bpiphany]

I did a test of the firmware just now. Turns out I only have more or less broken Teensys (don't worry, I've treated them exceptionally bad to break them...). All except the two pins used for col0 and col1 worked. It seems like I got the firmware correctly, even the LEDs seem to be hooked up in the right order =) In the picture I have shorted row5 and col16.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32276[/ATTACH]

[7bit]

7bit, why do you ignore me?

I will take care of it!

I did a test of the firmware just now. Turns out I only have more or less broken Teensys (don't worry, I've treated them exceptionally bad to break them...). All except the two pins used for col0 and col1 worked. It seems like I got the firmware correctly, even the LEDs seem to be hooked up in the right order =) In the picture I have shorted row5 and col16.
(Attachment Link) 32276[/ATTACH]

Are these the key codes, the keyboard will send?

Code: [Select]


#define KEY_CTRL        0x01
#define KEY_SHIFT       0x02
#define KEY_ALT         0x04
#define KEY_GUI         0x08
#define KEY_LEFT_CTRL   0x01
#define KEY_LEFT_SHIFT  0x02
#define KEY_LEFT_ALT    0x04
#define KEY_LEFT_GUI    0x08
#define KEY_RIGHT_CTRL  0x10
#define KEY_RIGHT_SHIFT 0x20
#define KEY_RIGHT_ALT   0x40
#define KEY_RIGHT_GUI   0x80

What about KEY_E and KEY_GUI?

edit: At least for the keycode question I've fund an answer:
quadibloc.com/comp/scan

What does the modifier flag do?

Code: [Select]

const uint8_t is_modifier[NKEY]
Do I need to specify it true for all keys which I intend to use as modifiers?

[bpiphany]

Yes, you need to specify if the key is a modifier or not. They are handled very differently. All, eight, modifiers are sent as a single bit of the same byte in the protocol. Then there are 6 more bytes for the 6KRO keys sent in every HID package, they are stored one per byte. Setting the wrong flag in is_modifier gives rise to some very interesting bugs =)

[7bit]

Yes, you need to specify if the key is a modifier or not. They are handled very differently. All, eight, modifiers are sent as a single bit of the same byte in the protocol. Then there are 6 more bytes for the 6KRO keys sent in every HID package, they are stored one per byte. Setting the wrong flag in is_modifier gives rise to some very interesting bugs =)

So there is a code for each modifier as a key plus the modifier flag?

If not:
I see the modifiers get numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128.

These are for Shift, Alt, Control and Super (GUI)

What about the rest of the modifiers?

There are Meta and  Hyper which would require numbers 256, 512, 1024 and 2048.