Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)

[bpiphany]

Either they are not "modifiers" in the USB HID interface, or it is just in this implementation they aren't. I have no idea =) The modifiers have one bit each in he modifier byte. They are masked together before sending. Any key can be mapped to any "key_code" in the OS. Are you sure hyper and meta should be sent as modifiers?

It seems to me that keyboard codes and communication is a complete duct tape construction disaster from start to finish. Someone would need to redo the thing from start...

[7bit]

Either they are not "modifiers" in the USB HID interface, or it is just in this implementation they aren't. I have no idea =) The modifiers have one bit each in he modifier byte. They are masked together before sending. Any key can be mapped to any "key_code" in the OS. Are you sure hyper and meta should be sent as modifiers?

It seems to me that keyboard codes and communication is a complete duct tape construction disaster from start to finish. Someone would need to redo the thing from start...

These are the USB key codes:
E0  Ctrl L (224)
E1  Shift L
E2  Alt L
E3  Win L
E4  Ctrl R  (228)
E5  Shift R
E6  Alt L
E7  Win R
It seems that the flags are only used internally for the n-key rollover feature (all modifiers+6 keys instead of say 3 modifier and only 3 keys).

Here are the key codes from usb_keyboard.h:

#define KEY_LEFTCONTROL         224
#define KEY_LEFTSHIFT           225
#define KEY_LEFTALT             226
#define KEY_LEFTGUI             227
#define KEY_RIGHTCONTROL        228
#define KEY_RIGHTSHIFT          229
#define KEY_RIGHTALT            230
#define KEY_RIGHTGUI            231

[ishtob]

Has anyone seen those KDBmania.net custom cases? we can try finding someone to do the acrylic cutting for us to get some sweet cases

[Soarer]

If you're using the 'boot mode' report, meta and hyper would be sent as regular keys (using up slots from the 6)... that's fine.

The only reason for the special treatment of modifiers is to cram more keys into the 8 byte report; it makes no functional difference once the report is unpacked at the other end.

If you want it better - don't use boot mode!

[bpiphany]

I have hardly even looked at usb_keybaord.c, and certainly not dug into the USB HID dungeon. I have no idea how it all works in the background. I only use the usb_keyboard_send() function and am happy with that... That seems deep enough for me =)

I really don't think it matters. For example the "menu" key can be held down, much like a modifier, and another key pressed to chose one of the alternatives. The extra keycodes for the usual modifiers might just be, extra I suppose. All those higher numbers are probably used pretty seldom.

[7bit]

If you're using the 'boot mode' report, meta and hyper would be sent as regular keys (using up slots from the 6)... that's fine.

The only reason for the special treatment of modifiers is to cram more keys into the 8 byte report; it makes no functional difference once the report is unpacked at the other end.

If you want it better - don't use boot mode!

Thanks for clearing this up.

So I can use the bit-wise encoded modifiers plus the regularly encoded ones:-)

I can press both Shift, Alt, Control, Super (8 keys) plus both Hyper and Meta (4 keys), plus any other key and still have one key left to be registered if I pressed it!

This should be sufficient!

[size=12]:-)[/size]

[/b]

Has anyone seen those KDBmania.net custom cases? we can try finding someone to do the acrylic cutting for us to get some sweet cases

Who needs a case if one has up to 14 key rollover!


BTW, what is 'boot mode'?

[alaricljs]

Boot mode is the "stupid USB KB" mode that doesn't require any intelligence to decode, which is what is required to fiddle with your BIOS.

[litster]

Boot mode is the "stupid USB KB" mode that doesn't require any intelligence to decode, which is what is required to fiddle with your BIOS.

So, does that mean if you don't use boot code, you could go NKRO with teensy, but you would lose the ability to manage your BIOS with the keyboard?  Does UEFI still require boot code?

[Glockateer]

I want to get a 7bit special. So many awesome things can be done with it.

[alaricljs]

There are a couple different teensy firmware's with NKRO.  I don't know UEFI's status but would expect it to require boot mode, why not since all commercial KBs have it?

[Soarer]

So, does that mean if you don't use boot code, you could go NKRO with teensy, but you would lose the ability to manage your BIOS with the keyboard?  Does UEFI still require boot code?

The HID configuration I use in my converter fully supports boot mode as well as NKRO.

[Tarkoon]

I would order:
PHANTOM 1
TEENSY 1
PHISOFULLFN 1
MXRED 100
DIODE 120
and the needed STAB

IF

you could offer the plate PHISOFULLFN following this design: (mix of ISOwin and 7bit)
(red marks show differences between ISOwin and my design)
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32290[/ATTACH]
(The Fx-Row would also be ok or even better with 2 extra keys as I saw in one of the many phantom threads...)

[7bit]

I would order:
PHANTOM 1
TEENSY 1
PHISOFULLFN 1
MXRED 100
DIODE 120
and the needed STAB

IF

you could offer the plate PHISOFULLFN following this design: (mix of ISOwin and 7bit)
(red marks show differences between ISOwin and my design)
(Attachment Link) 32290[/ATTACH]
(The Fx-Row would also be ok or even better with 2 extra keys as I saw in one of the many phantom threads...)

If you want 15 function keys instead of 13, just get 7BIT layout.

The extra cursor keys are no problem, but what about the split right shift?

[7bit]

7bit, why do you ignore me?

I did not really ignore you, just had to find the time.

The reason is very simple:

Code: [Select]


PHANSIREDKIT    |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ANSI plate/MX red   with stabs
PHANSICLEARKIT  |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ANSI plate/MX clear with stabs
PHANSIBLACKKIT  |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ANSI plate/MX black with stabs
PHANSIBLUEKIT   |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ANSI plate/MX blue  with stabs
PHANSIBROWNKIT  |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ANSI plate/MX brown with stabs
PHISOREDKIT     |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ISO  plate/MX red   with stabs
PHISOCLEARKIT   |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ISO  plate/MX clear with stabs
PHISOBLACKKIT   |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ISO  plate/MX black with stabs
PHISOBLUEKIT    |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ISO  plate/MX blue  with stabs
PHISOBROWNKIT   |  1|  150|-1|Teensy/PCB/ISO  plate/MX brown with stabs

No PHISOWINREDKIT available!

I will add it now. Please re-submit you order.

[Tarkoon]

If you want 15 function keys instead of 13, just get 7BIT layout.

The extra cursor keys are no problem, but what about the split right shift?

In Post 2 of this thread the 7bit layout doesn't have 15 keys in the F-Key row but the split right shift I want.
To be true I hate all these tiny keys instead of the big space in the 7bit layout. So is it possible to get the layout in my picture? 13 or 15 keys in the F-Key row doesn't matter for me.

[TheProfosist]

In Post 2 of this thread the 7bit layout doesn't have 15 keys in the F-Key row but the split right shift I want.
To be true I hate all these tiny keys instead of the big space in the 7bit layout. So is it possible to get the layout in my picture? 13 or 15 keys in the F-Key row doesn't matter for me.

If I remember correctly the plates other than 7bit also have cutouts for above the cursors at least i think that was mentioned.

[7bit]

In Post 2 of this thread the 7bit layout doesn't have 15 keys in the F-Key row but the split right shift I want.
To be true I hate all these tiny keys instead of the big space in the 7bit layout. So is it possible to get the layout in my picture? 13 or 15 keys in the F-Key row doesn't matter for me.

Find some people who want Tarkoon-layout and you will get it!

If I remember correctly the plates other than 7bit also have cutouts for above the cursors at least i think that was mentioned.

Yes, they will be there. But the 15 function keys will not be there. I don't know about the split up right Shift or split up right Return.

[Tarkoon]

Ok, so where are the ones, who planned to get the ISOwin plate,  don't like the completely split up space row from the 7bit layout but like the split up right shift to get a FN key there?
That layout would look like that:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32290[/ATTACH]

Let's call it PHISOFULLFN!

VOTE FOR IT HERE!

[Findecanor]

There will be switch holes in the plate for the keys above the arrow keys. I think that the first post should be updated with that info.

One thing that I have been considering is to enlarge the hole in my ISO plate for the right to make space for two switches (1.75 + 1). I would need a coarse file for the gruntwork (even though I don't think that it will be much) and then a couple of needle files for the fine work. Relatively easy.

[litster]

The HID configuration I use in my converter fully supports boot mode as well as NKRO.

Cool!  PrinsValium's Teensy firmware has 6KRO already.  How easy/hard is it to port your HID configuration to work on the Phantom keyboard?

[Soarer]

Cool!  PrinsValium's Teensy firmware has 6KRO already.  How easy/hard is it to port your HID configuration to work on the Phantom keyboard?

Pretty easy, I'd imagine! I can help/advise on that (in fact I think I've already posted all the info needed, it's just a matter of finding it).

But don't fret about firmware - it can be updated later :-)

[bpiphany]

There will be switch holes in the plate for the keys above the arrow keys. I think that the first post should be updated with that info.

One thing that I have been considering is to enlarge the hole in my ISO plate for the right to make space for two switches (1.75 + 1). I would need a coarse file for the gruntwork (even though I don't think that it will be much) and then a couple of needle files for the fine work. Relatively easy.

It looks like the plates will be aluminum, you will file through that in no time at all. Add some hack sawing to start it off and it might be even quicker. I've heard that aluminum might have a tendency to clog abrasive tools though..

[bpiphany]

But don't fret about firmware - it can be updated later :-)

Good point! My hope is that there will be at least some people developing firmwares further and there will be a few different to choose from, and to inspire each other.

[litster]

Pretty easy, I'd imagine! I can help/advise on that (in fact I think I've already posted all the info needed, it's just a matter of finding it).

But don't fret about firmware - it can be updated later :-)

Good point! My hope is that there will be at least some people developing firmwares further and there will be a few different to choose from, and to inspire each other.

Yes, the firmware is the least of our concerns right now :-).  We will have plenty of time to update it.  Try that with commercial keyboards!

[dorkvader]

I want to get a 7bit special. So many awesome things can be done with it.

Looks like a good choice to me! With the probability of soarer's addition, this is shaping up to be excellent.

Aren't there almost 104 switches on the 7bit? Looks like the perfect keyboard to me.

[TheProfosist]

Pretty easy, I'd imagine! I can help/advise on that (in fact I think I've already posted all the info needed, it's just a matter of finding it).

But don't fret about firmware - it can be updated later :-)

Would you be willing to develop some for the DOX project as well?

[litster]

104 switches on a tenkeyless footprint.  You can only find it on a Phantom!  We need to start give Phantom different model numbers.  This may be called Phantom 104.

[TheProfosist]

It looks like the plates will be aluminum, you will file through that in no time at all. Add some hack sawing to start it off and it might be even quicker. I've heard that aluminum might have a tendency to clog abrasive tools though..

Any way that you could look into doing a all in one plate/case design like the DOX or would one have to look into that on their own?

[TheProfosist]

104 switches on a tenkeyless footprint.  You can only find it on a Phantom!  We need to start give Phantom different model numbers.  This may be called Phantom 104.

Sounds good to me. But now where to look for fully compatible caps for the 7bit layout? Could we possibly get blanks from SP and the have WASD do the engraving/etching? I have never dealt with SP before so I dont know if this would be more cost effective. Also then everyone could get their desired layout.

[litster]

I think if you want WASD to do printing for you, you would use WASD's caps.  Buying blanks from SP and have WASD do printing is not going to work.  If I were WASD, I wouldn't do it.

Maybe 7bit will have a 7bit Phantom kit for group buy 4.

[TheProfosist]

I think if you want WASD to do printing for you, you would use WASD's caps.  Buying blanks from SP and have WASD do printing is not going to work.  If I were WASD, I wouldn't do it.

Maybe 7bit will have a 7bit Phantom kit for group buy 4.

I would love to buy caps from WASD and not SP but I dont believe he has the required sizes for the correct rows. (he will have the right and left shift but not the 1.5x modifiers and spacebars {idk if you can get around this Im just going off the 7bit layout that I have seen} and the return key.)

Idk about the group buy because I plan to use a much different layout than the 7bit's http://tinyurl.com/d9lqxwr

[7bit]

Sounds good to me. But now where to look for fully compatible caps for the 7bit layout? Could we possibly get blanks from SP and the have WASD do the engraving/etching? I have never dealt with SP before so I dont know if this would be more cost effective. Also then everyone could get their desired layout.

LOL!

What about the Round 4 group buy!

[TheProfosist]

LOL!

What about the Round 4 group buy!

Well would I be able to get the legends that I want? Or would it be for just blanks? And I thought there was minimum number of orders. I guess ill head over to that thread so I dont pollute this one.

[7bit]

Well would I be able to get the legends that I want? Or would it be for just blanks? And I thought there was minimum number of orders. I guess ill head over to that thread so I dont pollute this one.

Just  ask, but look at the wiki first!
http://deskthority.net/wiki/R44d
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Round4

[Findecanor]

It looks like the plates will be aluminum, you will file through that in no time at all. Add some hack sawing to start it off and it might be even quicker. I've heard that aluminum might have a tendency to clog abrasive tools though..

Aluminium has a tendency to fray and tangle together, though, so it does happen, but I have had more problems with plastics and supposedly-cured putty clogging.

[Soarer]

Would you be willing to develop some for the DOX project as well?

I've got a large pile of unfinished projects I want to work on once I've got the current round of improvements to my converter done! So I can't say I would develop it, but I will explain how to add NKRO to the PJRC keyboard code and provide at least the report descriptors, probably some code as well.

[TheProfosist]

I've got a large pile of unfinished projects I want to work on once I've got the current round of improvements to my converter done! So I can't say I would develop it, but I will explain how to add NKRO to the PJRC keyboard code and provide at least the report descriptors, probably some code as well.

We'll take the help, as we're currently just modifying 2 different versions that are available. Thanks in advance.

Edit: looks the like firmware we have been using already uses it. http://tinyurl.com/84anbbt

[tjweir]

This is borne of ignorance, I'd like a programmable board with soft-layers like the 7Bit layout.
It is possible to wire this up using simply the ANSI125 kit?  

So soft layers without the insane layout?

[7bit]

This is borne of ignorance, I'd like a programmable board with soft-layers like the 7Bit layout.
It is possible to wire this up using either the ANSI125 kit?  So soft layers without the insane layout?

No.

Soft layers only work with spherical key caps with centered ALL-caps lables.

Also, stabilsers and multiple layers do not go well together!

[tjweir]

No.

Soft layers only work with spherical key caps with centered ALL-caps lables.

Also, stabilsers and multiple layers do not go well together!

Given your posting history, I don't take anything you say seriously.
Can anyone else give me an answer?

[TheProfosist]

its the controlled that allows for the layers. though I think that I have come up with a goof layout for the 7bit board http://tinyurl.com/d9lqxwr .

[litster]

Given your posting history, I don't take anything you say seriously.
Can anyone else give me an answer?

You ask a question about the 7bit layout, and 7bit himself answered your question, and then you say you don't take anything 7bit says seriously.  What is wrong with this picture?

[tjweir]

You ask a question about the 7bit layout, and 7bit himself answered your question, and then you say you don't take anything 7bit says seriously.  What is wrong with this picture?

He said "Soft layers only work with spherical key caps with centered ALL-caps lables."

And I'm supposed to take this seriously?  Not to mention the general sarcastic, joking style he posts in both here and at Deskthority.

[7bit]

He said "Soft layers only work with spherical key caps with centered ALL-caps lables."

And I'm supposed to take this seriously?  Not to mention the general sarcastic, joking style he posts in both here and at Deskthority.

Multiple layers work with all layouts, but to have full n-key rollover you need double-shots!

[dorkvader]

He said "Soft layers only work with spherical key caps with centered ALL-caps lables."

And I'm supposed to take this seriously?  Not to mention the general sarcastic, joking style he posts in both here and at Deskthority.

7bit is the best.

It's true that he likes to generate interest in his GB, though

[TheProfosist]

multile layers work with all layouts, but to have full n-key rollover you need double-shots!

:rofl:

[dux]

Multile layers work with all layouts, but to have full n-key rollover you need double-shots!

I knew it! I have always deeply believed that the key is in the keycaps.

[litster]

Multile layers work with all layouts, but to have full n-key rollover you need double-shots!

But dye sub keys get you a more expensive keyboard.

[cactux]

Is it possible to order the TEENSY_PINS instead ? If yes for how much ?
Since I am not very familiar with Cherry stabilizers what  is the difference between these stabilizers
     STAB200         |  1|    2|MX plate mount stabilizer
     STAB400         |  1|    2|MX plate mount stabilizer
     STAB625         |  1|    2|MX plate mount stabilizer
     STAB700         |  1|    2|MX plate mount stabilizer
     STAB1000        |  1|    2|MX plate mount stabilizer

BTW how much is the shipping to Australia?

[dorkvader]

But dye sub keys get you a more expensive keyboard.

I dunno: It's close, what with all the SPH keys I'm getting for it. The dyesubs are for my other tenkeyless, ofcourse.