Author Topic: SSD capacity  (Read 10955 times)

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Offline _rubik

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 27 March 2024, 13:49:38 »
even smaller industries such as bicycle shops have to have their Christmas orders placed by June if they expect to have it in time

Don't get me started on the cycling industry manufacturing shortages. The local bike bubble here nearly rivaled the Pokemon craze over covid. If only I could sell my many-year-old heavily used HDD for 2x retail like I could a dirty road bike.
I haven't looked, but the industry was in freefall just before Christmas (which is really rare), sales tanked and a bunch of companies were on the edge of going under.
Not sure why but I guess they expected the party to keep going forever. I was extremely temped to upgrade but I just didn't want to saddle myself with payments for a year and work has me working long hours anyhow so..

Check Jensenusa, they always have killer deals.

That's the story of SO many quarantine friendly activities. "Hey, the line is going up, guess we better revise our 10 year outlook to include this pace". One of the many places cycling, tech, and cycling techies overlap
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Offline Axiom_

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 03 April 2024, 23:29:09 »

I'm praying that this AI craze will also drive storage tech since those training datasets are many many PB

Just speculating, the AI boom is more likely to drive up prices in the short term. And on the tech side of things, it seems like the real winner is Nvidia while storage tech is seemingly moving at its own pace, determined largely by cloud service demand.
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 April 2024, 02:41:24 by Axiom_ »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 04 April 2024, 00:28:16 »
Just installed the 4tb sn850x, so roomy.


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 04 April 2024, 10:15:40 »
Some testing.

No Heatsink 53C idle.. Heatsink 35C idle.

Offline phinix

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 04 April 2024, 11:41:36 »
Some testing.

No Heatsink 53C idle.. Heatsink 35C idle.


which heatsink did you use?
9100 | 3070 | 8TB SSD + 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
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Offline phinix

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 04 April 2024, 11:49:07 »
Is this the price rise everyone has been shouting lately?
21st March 4TB SSD P3 Crucial £133, today - £248... >:D

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 04 April 2024, 12:14:39 »
which heatsink did you use?


Just the normal aluminum block.

Tp4 has considered the heatpipe / fin-types, but couldn't justify it, because there's no sustained load for at home use. Bringing down the idle temp is enough.

Don't think we can fully saturate even a small heatsink because the average load is far too short. Tried a 200GB transfer, heat wouldn't peak, only went up to 39 C. How often do we even have 200GB to load.

Offline _rubik

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 04 April 2024, 23:53:18 »

I'm praying that this AI craze will also drive storage tech since those training datasets are many many PB

Just speculating, the AI boom is more likely to drive up prices in the short term. And on the tech side of things, it seems like the real winner is Nvidia while storage tech is seemingly moving at its own pace, determined largely by cloud service demand.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that people needed petabyte scale storage clusters well before this craze and will continue to need it for all-time. Plenty of industries rely on similar scales of data, I don't think we'll see a shortage and price spike the same as we say for crypto and AI on GPUs

Also speculating here, but I don't know of many folks training their own models on PB scale datasets either. That sort of training is ludicrously expensive and, outside of the startups getting fun money thrown in their direction, most folks are using off-the-shelf models for most of their heavy lifting.
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Offline Axiom_

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #58 on: Sat, 06 April 2024, 00:53:41 »
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that people needed petabyte scale storage clusters well before this craze and will continue to need it for all-time.

Indeed. I'd attribute the demand to cloud storage/ cloud computing. It was hyped a while ago and continues to grow rapidly.

Plenty of industries rely on similar scales of data, I don't think we'll see a shortage and price spike the same as we say for crypto and AI on GPUs

That's true. The other influencing factor is that there are more manufacturers in the storage space in contrast to only a handful in the GPU space.

Also speculating here, but I don't know of many folks training their own models on PB scale datasets either. That sort of training is ludicrously expensive and, outside of the startups getting fun money thrown in their direction, most folks are using off-the-shelf models for most of their heavy lifting.

The trend seems to be towards the deployment of cloud-based, pre-trained foundation models which are then fine-tuned by businesses using local datasets. Due to the latter, SMB/enterprise demand for storage is likely to grow more than usual. My personal take is that individual PC users only ever account for a small share of hardware demand.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 06 April 2024, 08:33:20 »
Well, the only reason the average person would need so much storage is arrrghhh matey movies.  That doesn't run into petabyte, maybe around 500TB.

Offline _rubik

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #60 on: Sat, 06 April 2024, 14:29:46 »
Also speculating here, but I don't know of many folks training their own models on PB scale datasets either. That sort of training is ludicrously expensive and, outside of the startups getting fun money thrown in their direction, most folks are using off-the-shelf models for most of their heavy lifting.

The trend seems to be towards the deployment of cloud-based, pre-trained foundation models which are then fine-tuned by businesses using local datasets. Due to the latter, SMB/enterprise demand for storage is likely to grow more than usual. My personal take is that individual PC users only ever account for a small share of hardware demand.

Oh I was only talking about enterprise demand. I agree, consumers have and will always get the dregs of enterprise. Training an AI at home (at this point) is like running a Kubernetes cluster at home. Sure, it mimics the patterns of a production cluster but the scale is effectively a rounding error.

My point is the, even in the enterprise context, few companies are training their own models. And even if they are, they're rarely training from the ground up. More often than not, they're extending a base model. Storage development and therefore prices will continue to increase because we're spinning off more data as a society in a day than we can ever hope to capture, not because we're all training openai-scale models.

Maybe you can argue that we have an increased interest in capturing the more "mundane" data for training purposes, but so much of that data is noise that filtering the raw bits down into a useful signal will always bring us back to the real bottleneck: compute.

The only evidence I can really point to is that researchers were working on transformers for _years_ before this wave. We've only just hit a point where it's computationally feasible to scale the architecture and train the model.

I also acknowledge that, judging by your post history, we're likely on opposite sides of the bullish-bearish spectrum.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 April 2024, 14:33:52 by _rubik »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 07 April 2024, 19:06:54 »
Ok, so 1 scenario where Tp4 thinks a bigger SSD heatsink is warranted. If someone is using the SSD slot that gets hot air from the GPU, usually slots toward the bottom, those slots get crazy hot when the GPU is going full out.  These should be either water cooled or at least actively cooled. A makeshift airguide/ heat shield to direct the hot gpu air away from the drive may be easiest.

Offline phinix

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Re: SSD capacity
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 17 April 2024, 13:20:36 »
Looks like we will get bigger SSDs soon, phinix is now a happy hippo :)

Bring on 8TB SSD for $200! :D

https://www.techpowerup.com/321557/samsung-readies-290-layer-3d-nand-for-may-2024-debut-planning-430-layer-for-2025
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 April 2024, 13:22:16 by phinix »
9100 | 3070 | 8TB SSD + 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | NCR-80 87g Gateron Oil Kings | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: Retro Petscii, 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL GSA: Retro High-light HSA: Hyperfuse

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::