[GB] F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! Kishsaver+Industrial Model F

[sixdeuces]

It seemed like Ellipse's statement amounted to "I'm happy to report these springs will sound perfect after they're in use for about a year. We're not holding up the project for that though."

Then we spiral into a controversy about the validity of spring aging and Eillispe's decisions? Seems like a bit of a tangent, tbh.

Aging doesn't melt steel springs...

[PancakeMSTR]

Steel doesn't age.

Sure it does. But this is the first time I've ever heard of steel aging "well." Typically aging of steel is described as "rust," "embrittlement," or "fatigue." All bad for structural integrity, but perhaps good for spring sonics?

All that's true but spring steel (meaning heat treated stuff) shouldn't do any of that. Especially if it's stainless, which it ought to be.

Model F (and indeed M) springs are not made of stainless steel, and are not completely resistant to rust.

Source:

Show Image

What an excellent place to make an improvement on the original then, with some nice corrosion resistant springs.

The impression I'm under is that, if your spring is changing properties as it's being used, it's being used the wrong way in possibly the wrong environment.

[iamtootallforthis]

Steel doesn't age.

Sure it does. But this is the first time I've ever heard of steel aging "well." Typically aging of steel is described as "rust," "embrittlement," or "fatigue." All bad for structural integrity, but perhaps good for spring sonics?

All that's true but spring steel (meaning heat treated stuff) shouldn't do any of that. Especially if it's stainless, which it ought to be.

Model F (and indeed M) springs are not made of stainless steel, and are not completely resistant to rust.

Source:

Show Image

What an excellent place to make an improvement on the original then, with some nice corrosion resistant springs.

The impression I'm under is that, if your spring is changing properties as it's being used, it's being used the wrong way in possibly the wrong environment.

Well just using a spring changes it.  :))

Edit:  I have a degree in Materials science and engineering.

[PancakeMSTR]

Steel doesn't age.

Sure it does. But this is the first time I've ever heard of steel aging "well." Typically aging of steel is described as "rust," "embrittlement," or "fatigue." All bad for structural integrity, but perhaps good for spring sonics?

All that's true but spring steel (meaning heat treated stuff) shouldn't do any of that. Especially if it's stainless, which it ought to be.

Model F (and indeed M) springs are not made of stainless steel, and are not completely resistant to rust.

Source:

Show Image

What an excellent place to make an improvement on the original then, with some nice corrosion resistant springs.

The impression I'm under is that, if your spring is changing properties as it's being used, it's being used the wrong way in possibly the wrong environment.

Well just using a spring changes it.  :))

Edit:  I have a degree in Materials science and engineering.

Frankly, I'm astonished that's the case. At most I would figure that the effect is negligible as far as our ears and fingers are concerned. Are there any good papers on spring fatigue? I couldn't find any.

Not just material, but I'd also guess scale has an effect. A coil spring in your car, big monster spring like that, I sort of intuitively understand that it could set in to the vehicle over time. But at inch or half inch scale, like the Model F springs are, with very small wire diameter, I can't get it around my head that they would change except after at least a few million cycles. Partly at least because I imagine you can get the internal stresses really uniform.

[iamtootallforthis]

Steel doesn't age.

Sure it does. But this is the first time I've ever heard of steel aging "well." Typically aging of steel is described as "rust," "embrittlement," or "fatigue." All bad for structural integrity, but perhaps good for spring sonics?

All that's true but spring steel (meaning heat treated stuff) shouldn't do any of that. Especially if it's stainless, which it ought to be.

Model F (and indeed M) springs are not made of stainless steel, and are not completely resistant to rust.

Source:

Show Image

What an excellent place to make an improvement on the original then, with some nice corrosion resistant springs.

The impression I'm under is that, if your spring is changing properties as it's being used, it's being used the wrong way in possibly the wrong environment.

Well just using a spring changes it.  :))

Edit:  I have a degree in Materials science and engineering.

Frankly, I'm astonished that's the case. At most I would figure that the effect is negligible as far as our ears and fingers are concerned. Are there any good papers on spring fatigue? I couldn't find any.

Take a paper clip and bend it back and forth a ton of times. The fatigue effect is negligible over the short term but since he's trying to recreate old springs and sound there is a bigger effect. Best bet is to search scientific databases though

[Atredl]

Steel doesn't age.

Sure it does. But this is the first time I've ever heard of steel aging "well." Typically aging of steel is described as "rust," "embrittlement," or "fatigue." All bad for structural integrity, but perhaps good for spring sonics?

All that's true but spring steel (meaning heat treated stuff) shouldn't do any of that. Especially if it's stainless, which it ought to be.

Model F (and indeed M) springs are not made of stainless steel, and are not completely resistant to rust.

Source:

Show Image

What an excellent place to make an improvement on the original then, with some nice corrosion resistant springs.

The impression I'm under is that, if your spring is changing properties as it's being used, it's being used the wrong way in possibly the wrong environment.

Well just using a spring changes it.  :))

Edit:  I have a degree in Materials science and engineering.

Frankly, I'm astonished that's the case. At most I would figure that the effect is negligible as far as our ears and fingers are concerned. Are there any good papers on spring fatigue? I couldn't find any.

Look up high cycle fatigue. Spring steel is better at resisting fatigue than other types of steel but it’s not magical. Springs steels fatigue just like every other material.

Source: I also have a degree in Materials Science and Engineering

[iamtootallforthis]

Steel doesn't age.

Sure it does. But this is the first time I've ever heard of steel aging "well." Typically aging of steel is described as "rust," "embrittlement," or "fatigue." All bad for structural integrity, but perhaps good for spring sonics?

All that's true but spring steel (meaning heat treated stuff) shouldn't do any of that. Especially if it's stainless, which it ought to be.

Model F (and indeed M) springs are not made of stainless steel, and are not completely resistant to rust.

Source:

Show Image

What an excellent place to make an improvement on the original then, with some nice corrosion resistant springs.

The impression I'm under is that, if your spring is changing properties as it's being used, it's being used the wrong way in possibly the wrong environment.

Well just using a spring changes it.  :))

Edit:  I have a degree in Materials science and engineering.

Frankly, I'm astonished that's the case. At most I would figure that the effect is negligible as far as our ears and fingers are concerned. Are there any good papers on spring fatigue? I couldn't find any.

Look up high cycle fatigue. Spring steel is better at resisting fatigue than other types of steel but it’s not magical. Springs steels fatigue just like every other material.

Source: I also have a degree in Materials Science and Engineering

High five!

[PancakeMSTR]

Take a paper clip and bend it back and forth a ton of times. The fatigue effect is negligible over the short term but since he's trying to recreate old springs and sound there is a bigger effect. Best bet is to search scientific databases though

Paper clip is a totally, totally different material though. And are you talking about plastic or elastic deformation?

That Ellipse is trying to recreate old springs is another thing I take issue with. He has freedom to make improvements, make it better than it was. Why use old technology...

I mean yeah get the sound right, but instead of exact duplication work on making a spring that was totally corrosion resistant, invariant over 10 million cycles, and improved on the original sound (meaning, take what's good about the original sound and amplify it).


Yes...cycle fatigue is a thing. Won't debate that. But how many cycles? And how many times might a single key be cycled in a year? And what's the threshold for your fingers/ears to be able to sense a change?

[Atredl]

High five!

High five! 

[iamtootallforthis]

Take a paper clip and bend it back and forth a ton of times. The fatigue effect is negligible over the short term but since he's trying to recreate old springs and sound there is a bigger effect. Best bet is to search scientific databases though

Paper clip is a totally, totally different material though. And are you talking about plastic or elastic deformation?

That Ellipse is trying to recreate old springs is another thing I take issue with. He has freedom to make improvements, make it better than it was. Why use old technology...

I mean yeah get the sound right, but instead of exact duplication work on making a spring that was totally corrosion resistant, invariant over 10 million cycles, and improved on the original sound (meaning, take what's good about the original sound and amplify it).


Yes...cycle fatigue is a thing. Won't debate that. But how many cycles? And how many times might a single key be cycled in a year?

The paper clip is a demonstration of what happens with repeated stressing of a material.

He's trying to replicate the old boards plain and simple.

Well considering this is his project and he stated his goals, he can't use a new material in his mind. He wants that same sound and feel.

Honestly though, why did you even buy into this project?

[duynguyenle]

Steel doesn't age.

Sure it does. But this is the first time I've ever heard of steel aging "well." Typically aging of steel is described as "rust," "embrittlement," or "fatigue." All bad for structural integrity, but perhaps good for spring sonics?

All that's true but spring steel (meaning heat treated stuff) shouldn't do any of that. Especially if it's stainless, which it ought to be.

Model F (and indeed M) springs are not made of stainless steel, and are not completely resistant to rust.

Source:

Show Image

What an excellent place to make an improvement on the original then, with some nice corrosion resistant springs.

The impression I'm under is that, if your spring is changing properties as it's being used, it's being used the wrong way in possibly the wrong environment.

Well just using a spring changes it.  :))

Edit:  I have a degree in Materials science and engineering.

Frankly, I'm astonished that's the case. At most I would figure that the effect is negligible as far as our ears and fingers are concerned. Are there any good papers on spring fatigue? I couldn't find any.

Look up high cycle fatigue. Spring steel is better at resisting fatigue than other types of steel but it’s not magical. Springs steels fatigue just like every other material.

Source: I also have a degree in Materials Science and Engineering

Or just look up what happened to the De Havilland Comet.

Source: Also have a degree in engineering, but not specifically in Materials. Can I still join the club?

[PancakeMSTR]

Take a paper clip and bend it back and forth a ton of times. The fatigue effect is negligible over the short term but since he's trying to recreate old springs and sound there is a bigger effect. Best bet is to search scientific databases though

Paper clip is a totally, totally different material though. And are you talking about plastic or elastic deformation?

That Ellipse is trying to recreate old springs is another thing I take issue with. He has freedom to make improvements, make it better than it was. Why use old technology...

I mean yeah get the sound right, but instead of exact duplication work on making a spring that was totally corrosion resistant, invariant over 10 million cycles, and improved on the original sound (meaning, take what's good about the original sound and amplify it).


Yes...cycle fatigue is a thing. Won't debate that. But how many cycles? And how many times might a single key be cycled in a year?

The paper clip is a demonstration of what happens with repeated stressing of a material.

He's trying to replicate the old boards plain and simple.

Well considering this is his project and he stated his goals, he can't use a new material in his mind. He wants that same sound and feel.

Honestly though, why did you even buy into this project?

Same reason everyone else did? Because I want a really cool keyboard? I admit I don't give two ****s about it being a perfect, exact replica of the original (I'm not sure I've even actually ever used an original Model F). In fact, one of the reasons I bought into this project instead of picking up an SSK on ebay or whatever is because I wanted a fully modernized buckling spring . That the (new) Model F's are advertised as USB plug-and-play and fully programmable was a huge selling point for me. I'm not insignificantly disappointed that similar modernization isn't being applied to the rest of the keyboard.

Personally, I think that - replication vs. improvement - isn't forward thinking, and I don't think it's a defense that holds water.

You didn't answer the paperclip question - plastic or elastic deformation?

Ellipse knows what the original is like, not me. So he is the one who is really qualified to judge where improvements should be made. But, again my feeling is that doing an exact duplication of a 30 year old product is totally missing a great opportunity to improve on it.

[iamtootallforthis]

Take a paper clip and bend it back and forth a ton of times. The fatigue effect is negligible over the short term but since he's trying to recreate old springs and sound there is a bigger effect. Best bet is to search scientific databases though

Paper clip is a totally, totally different material though. And are you talking about plastic or elastic deformation?

That Ellipse is trying to recreate old springs is another thing I take issue with. He has freedom to make improvements, make it better than it was. Why use old technology...

I mean yeah get the sound right, but instead of exact duplication work on making a spring that was totally corrosion resistant, invariant over 10 million cycles, and improved on the original sound (meaning, take what's good about the original sound and amplify it).


Yes...cycle fatigue is a thing. Won't debate that. But how many cycles? And how many times might a single key be cycled in a year?

The paper clip is a demonstration of what happens with repeated stressing of a material.

He's trying to replicate the old boards plain and simple.

Well considering this is his project and he stated his goals, he can't use a new material in his mind. He wants that same sound and feel.

Honestly though, why did you even buy into this project?

Same reason everyone else did? Because I want a really cool keyboard? I admit I don't give two ****s about it being a perfect, exact replica of the original (I'm not sure I've even actually ever used an original Model F). In fact, one of the reasons I bought into this project instead of picking up an SSK on ebay or whatever is because I wanted a fully modernized buckling spring . That the (new) Model F's are advertised as USB plug-and-play and fully programmable was a huge selling point for me. I'm not insignificantly disappointed that similar modernization isn't being applied to the rest of the keyboard.

Personally, I think that - replication vs. improvement - isn't forward thinking, and I don't think it's a defense that holds water.

You didn't answer the paperclip question - plastic or elastic deformation?

Well considering the experiment is to bend the paperclip till it breaks you end up in the plastic deformation regime but the paperclip goes through significant cold working which stiffens the paperclip causing it to fracture easier

[PancakeMSTR]

Well considering the experiment is to bend the paperclip till it breaks you end up in the plastic deformation regime but the paperclip goes through significant cold working which stiffens the paperclip causing it to fracture easier

Look you're the material scientist, I'm just a lowly physicist, so you know better than I but that's precisely how a spring shouldn't be used. A happy spring is one operating well within its elastic range. I won't paint myself as too familiar but, sure, there is work hardening, probably even tiny plastic distortions, general "too bad we live in the real world where cows aren't spherical" losses, etc. But for a good spring those have got to be absolutely nanoscopic effects.

[iamtootallforthis]

Well considering the experiment is to bend the paperclip till it breaks you end up in the plastic deformation regime but the paperclip goes through significant cold working which stiffens the paperclip causing it to fracture easier

Look you're the material scientist, I'm just a lowly physicist, so you know better than I but that's precisely how a spring shouldn't be used. A happy spring is one operating well within its elastic range. I won't paint myself as too familiar but, sure, there is work hardening, probably even tiny plastic distortions, general "too bad we live in the real world where cows aren't spherical" losses, etc. But for a good spring those have got to be absolutely nanoscopic effects.

Nothing is ever wholly elastic though. Yes the deformations are small but with time it still fails.

[PancakeMSTR]

Well considering the experiment is to bend the paperclip till it breaks you end up in the plastic deformation regime but the paperclip goes through significant cold working which stiffens the paperclip causing it to fracture easier

Look you're the material scientist, I'm just a lowly physicist, so you know better than I but that's precisely how a spring shouldn't be used. A happy spring is one operating well within its elastic range. I won't paint myself as too familiar but, sure, there is work hardening, probably even tiny plastic distortions, general "too bad we live in the real world where cows aren't spherical" losses, etc. But for a good spring those have got to be absolutely nanoscopic effects.

Nothing is ever wholly elastic though. Yes the deformations are small but with time it still fails.

Exactly, but that's the whole question: for whatever spring Ellipse is using, or a typical keyboard spring I guess in general,  what are the time (or cycle) scales like?

[iamtootallforthis]

Well considering the experiment is to bend the paperclip till it breaks you end up in the plastic deformation regime but the paperclip goes through significant cold working which stiffens the paperclip causing it to fracture easier

Look you're the material scientist, I'm just a lowly physicist, so you know better than I but that's precisely how a spring shouldn't be used. A happy spring is one operating well within its elastic range. I won't paint myself as too familiar but, sure, there is work hardening, probably even tiny plastic distortions, general "too bad we live in the real world where cows aren't spherical" losses, etc. But for a good spring those have got to be absolutely nanoscopic effects.

Nothing is ever wholly elastic though. Yes the deformations are small but with time it still fails.

Exactly, but that's the whole question: for whatever spring Ellipse is using, or a typical keyboard spring I guess in general,  what are the time (or cycle) scales like?

Cherry gives lifespan on their switch life on their site

[zacheadams]

Well considering the experiment is to bend the paperclip till it breaks you end up in the plastic deformation regime but the paperclip goes through significant cold working which stiffens the paperclip causing it to fracture easier

Look you're the material scientist, I'm just a lowly physicist, so you know better than I but that's precisely how a spring shouldn't be used. A happy spring is one operating well within its elastic range. I won't paint myself as too familiar but, sure, there is work hardening, probably even tiny plastic distortions, general "too bad we live in the real world where cows aren't spherical" losses, etc. But for a good spring those have got to be absolutely nanoscopic effects.

Nothing is ever wholly elastic though. Yes the deformations are small but with time it still fails.

Exactly, but that's the whole question: for whatever spring Ellipse is using, or a typical keyboard spring I guess in general,  what are the time (or cycle) scales like?

5-100 million actuations depending on switch/spring/material

[Atredl]

Well considering the experiment is to bend the paperclip till it breaks you end up in the plastic deformation regime but the paperclip goes through significant cold working which stiffens the paperclip causing it to fracture easier

Look you're the material scientist, I'm just a lowly physicist, so you know better than I but that's precisely how a spring shouldn't be used. A happy spring is one operating well within its elastic range. I won't paint myself as too familiar but, sure, there is work hardening, probably even tiny plastic distortions, general "too bad we live in the real world where cows aren't spherical" losses, etc. But for a good spring those have got to be absolutely nanoscopic effects.

Nothing is ever wholly elastic though. Yes the deformations are small but with time it still fails.

Exactly, but that's the whole question: for whatever spring Ellipse is using, or a typical keyboard spring I guess in general,  what are the time (or cycle) scales like?

To be honest, the only people who might be able to answer that question are the ones who engineered that specific spring.

Speaking of keyboard springs in general, I’m pretty sure they choose a material that they’re sure won’t snap before the electronics fail. Especially since electronics are by far more prone to outright failure than a spring.  They might have been fine with some feeling change throughout the life of the switch or it might have been prohibitively expensive to use a material that wouldn’t noticeably change. Again, extremely difficult to say without being the designer of the spring.

[PancakeMSTR]

Well considering the experiment is to bend the paperclip till it breaks you end up in the plastic deformation regime but the paperclip goes through significant cold working which stiffens the paperclip causing it to fracture easier

Look you're the material scientist, I'm just a lowly physicist, so you know better than I but that's precisely how a spring shouldn't be used. A happy spring is one operating well within its elastic range. I won't paint myself as too familiar but, sure, there is work hardening, probably even tiny plastic distortions, general "too bad we live in the real world where cows aren't spherical" losses, etc. But for a good spring those have got to be absolutely nanoscopic effects.

Nothing is ever wholly elastic though. Yes the deformations are small but with time it still fails.

Exactly, but that's the whole question: for whatever spring Ellipse is using, or a typical keyboard spring I guess in general,  what are the time (or cycle) scales like?

5-100 million actuations depending on switch/spring/material

Anyone want to solve the keystrokes per year Fermi problem?

[2Cas]

saddas

[Pete]

It seems like I was one of the few people to be excited about the latest springs update. 

This keyboard is going to be awesome!

[supamesican]

The good news is that if these are made to the same standards as IBM, we know they'll last at least 30-40 years as a minimum before needing replacement foam, and eventually also replacement springs. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

The main reason I got this, besides want moar model F. In two days I'll be 26, 40 years after I get this board I will have retired. I'm fine with needing to start repairing/maintaining what may be my favorite keyboard ever as a retirement hobby. Gotta wonder if in said 40 years anyone else will try to re-create a different model F or even a beamspring or selectric...

[krispy]

The original timeline for these wasn't 2 years (although it has turned out that way unfortunately). The original intention of this was to be a relatively straightforward and simple effort to bring back from the dead something that hasn't been around for 30+ years.

Wait is 2 years really the timeline? Genuinely curious here. I joined the GB a couple months ago but I still have no idea what the timeline is or if there is one?

[PancakeMSTR]

The original timeline for these wasn't 2 years (although it has turned out that way unfortunately). The original intention of this was to be a relatively straightforward and simple effort to bring back from the dead something that hasn't been around for 30+ years.

Wait is 2 years really the timeline? Genuinely curious here. I joined the GB a couple months ago but I still have no idea what the timeline is or if there is one?

Join the club. I joined over a year ago and I still can only guess at when I'll see it.

[Puddsy]

It seems like I was one of the few people to be excited about the latest springs update. 

This keyboard is going to be awesome!

I enjoy all of ellipse's updates. I'm excited for these to go out.

[futurecrime]

It seems like I was one of the few people to be excited about the latest springs update. 

This keyboard is going to be awesome!

I enjoy all of ellipse's updates. I'm excited for these to go out.

Same. I'm finding it fascinating tbh, and being made aware of all the fine details and challenges is fuelling the anticipation and giving me an education. And I bet I'll appreciate my F77 so much more when it's finally sat on my desk, knowing the work that's gone into making it. I'm in no rush.

[dotcom]

It seems like I was one of the few people to be excited about the latest springs update. 

This keyboard is going to be awesome!

I'm excited, as well!

Not only will this project produce new Model F keyboards, but because Ellipse has chosen to stick to the original specs as much as possible, we also have the ability (for the first time ever, to my knowledge, since Model Fs ceased being produced) to purchase new replacement parts for original Model Fs--the most critical of which is (arguably) the springs. This is really is quite amazing.

Personally, I'm really thankful Ellipse is being so meticulous about the components.

[Ellipse]

Some quick updates:

The inside foam has completed production.
The key molds will be finished up this week and the first tests will be done next week.
The factory was sent one of my XT key sets so that they can exactly reproduce the texture, colors, and other characteristics of the original.

[Puddsy]

Some quick updates:

The inside foam has completed production.
The key molds will be finished up this week and the first tests will be done next week.
The factory was sent one of my XT key sets so that they can exactly reproduce the texture, colors, and other characteristics of the original.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

damn, cool pics

thanks ellipse

[esquilax]

Am I the only person who doesn't know what that does?

[Puddsy]

Am I the only person who doesn't know what that does?

i'm about 90% sure it's an injection mold

[iamtootallforthis]

Am I the only person who doesn't know what that does?

i'm about 90% sure it's an injection mold

It's an injection mold

[InvidiousIgnoramus]

Am I the only person who doesn't know what that does?

That's an injection mold for the keycaps.

[Glod]

Maybe unicomp be thinking now, "maybe we should have fixed our tooling", I am curious if this is only going to be used for the model F reproduction or if this would lead to better OG model m/f cap sets as well in the future after the model f.

[Techno Trousers]

I'm really looking forward to seeing pictures of how these keys turn out. I'll probably be in for a few extra sets in round 2 if they are as good as they sound.

[Lagomorph]

Maybe unicomp be thinking now, "maybe we should have fixed our tooling", I am curious if this is only going to be used for the model F reproduction or if this would lead to better OG model m/f cap sets as well in the future after the model f.

I don't mean to drag this off-topic, but in 2014 I emailed Unicomp and desperately tried to make the case that they are missing an opportunity to expand their product line to compete in the rapidly growing enthusiast keyboard market. Things like an SSK, programmable controllers, split layouts, upgrades to their endurapro trackpoint (similar to Tex Yoda), more keycap offerings, etc. Any of these would require a big investment, but the window to ride that wave up won't be there forever. I mentioned that the keyboard communities would love to open a channel of communication with them if they're interested. Didn't get a reply.

Anyway, thanks for the update pics Ellipse. The excitement is palpable.

[esquilax]

Am I the only person who doesn't know what that does?

i'm about 90% sure it's an injection mold

It's an injection mold

Ah, I see the caps one. I take it that the one with the round things on it is for barrels? What's the top one?

[iamtootallforthis]

Am I the only person who doesn't know what that does?

i'm about 90% sure it's an injection mold

It's an injection mold

Ah, I see the caps one. I take it that the one with the round things on it is for barrels? What's the top one?

Looks like the multiple parts to an injection mold

[Zobeid Zuma]

I don't mean to drag this off-topic, but in 2014 I emailed Unicomp and desperately tried to make the case that they are missing an opportunity to expand their product line to compete in the rapidly growing enthusiast keyboard market.

Yeah, it's interesting to speculate.  It would require capital investment, but that's not the major obstacle.  I think the main problem would be psychological, because it would require a completely different business strategy, a big mental shift-of-gears.  That's very difficult to achieve in an established company.

[supamesican]

Maybe unicomp be thinking now, "maybe we should have fixed our tooling", I am curious if this is only going to be used for the model F reproduction or if this would lead to better OG model m/f cap sets as well in the future after the model f.

Nah what they shoulda done is gotten an ssk mold. Then put a capsense board option along side the membrane one. So I could have a full sized ansi model f with model m springs at my desk(I prefer the heavier springs tbh but do love model f's too) and 4 ten keyless for my 3 backup/htpc rigs and one to switchout with the main one.

[Ellipse]

We are 13 keyboards away from 1,000 new keyboards ordered! 

How dark should the dark gray key plastic be?  Any recommendations?

[PancakeMSTR]

We are 13 keyboards away from 1,000 new keyboards ordered! 

How dark should the dark gray key plastic be?  Any recommendations?

How far are we away from 1000 keyboards delivered? That's the more important data.

[Puddsy]

We are 13 keyboards away from 1,000 new keyboards ordered! 

How dark should the dark gray key plastic be?  Any recommendations?

the titanium grey that older kustoms (KMAC, 356CL DGE) use is really nice

something like that would be popular, i bet

[iamtootallforthis]

We are 13 keyboards away from 1,000 new keyboards ordered! 

How dark should the dark gray key plastic be?  Any recommendations?

How far are we away from 1000 keyboards delivered? That's the more important data.

 

[HoffmanMyster]

We are 13 keyboards away from 1,000 new keyboards ordered! 

How dark should the dark gray key plastic be?  Any recommendations?

How far are we away from 1000 keyboards delivered? That's the more important data.

Dude, give it up.  He's very actively communicating with everyone and is not in any way acting suspicious about how he's handling this group buy.  You have no beef to pick here.  Keep the discussion on topic and relevant.

[PancakeMSTR]

We are 13 keyboards away from 1,000 new keyboards ordered! 

How dark should the dark gray key plastic be?  Any recommendations?

How far are we away from 1000 keyboards delivered? That's the more important data.

Dude, give it up.  He's very actively communicating with everyone and is not in any way acting suspicious about how he's handling this group buy.  You have no beef to pick here.  Keep the discussion on topic and relevant.

I just think bragging about how many keyboards have been delivered is a lot more impressive than bragging about how many have been sold.

[xondat]

We are 13 keyboards away from 1,000 new keyboards ordered! 

How dark should the dark gray key plastic be?  Any recommendations?

Amazing milestone.

The industrial IBM gray is super nice imo.

[ricyuyc]

We are 13 keyboards away from 1,000 new keyboards ordered! 

How dark should the dark gray key plastic be?  Any recommendations?

Yes, IBM Industrial Grey please.

Amazing milestone.

The industrial IBM gray is super nice imo.

[Techno Trousers]

IBM industrial gray is more of an olive drab color. I wasn't one who requested dark gray caps, but I think what they wanted was something like the Realforce 87U black on dark gray look?

If that's the case, I'd estimate that the gray should be maybe 15-20% lighter than pure black.