Discovery Project - First custom keyboard for Rakanishu2199 - Design & Build Log

[Rakanishu2199]

Hi peeps,

As announced in my introduction topic, I will build a custom mechanical keyboard. 
This topic will be used to show how far I am with the design and what points need to be cleared / which choices have to be made.
I will create new posts every time I get new information or chose something about the desing. The second post of the topic will list the current status.

Feel free to help and share your experience!

I currently own a Das Professional Model S Clicky keyboard (Cherry MX Blues) and want to build my very own custom keyboard now.
Why? Mainly because it's fun! And well, I will have a keyboard in the end which is something pretty useful too!

Without further explanation, I will write the second post to list what my goals are and what I have so far!

[Rakanishu2199]

Main Goals:

• Keyboard must work in the end - ok that is a basic requirement
• It has to help me improve my typing skill
• Base layout is US ANSI (best layout for me because I write in different languages)
• The project is used for me to learn more about keyboard design
• Try and build as much as possible by myself (I do not own a plastic factory or a foudry)
• Budget is limited because there is no challenge in building a great keyboard with unlimited funds
• No crazy feature or design planned for this first project, just a standard keyboard

Design Points to be cleared

Keyboard size & layout

No LEDs planned because it makes the wiring complex and my soldering skill sucks.
At least one LED needed to switch between keypad and function keys. Still looking for a solution.



Switches

Gateron Browns



Keycaps

White Blank PBT Caps
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-arxsrf/cv5cj/products/63/images/256/IMG_5468__20851.1406787318.1280.1280.JPG?c=2


Wiring / PCB

Hand Wiring, PCB Design still a bit too complex / unknown to me.


Controller

Teensy 2.0 + Mini-USB to USB Cable



Software

Will be done by myself!


Case & Mounting

Looking for a minimalist plate mounted design. No case over / around the plate, just under to keep the wiring safe and clean.
When possible, should have no screws on the upper part and the plate should meet exactly the footprint of the keys.


I think I have everything. Any other important point that I should take into account for my design? Thanks! 

[Rakanishu2199]

Alright let's get started with what I have so far.

Keyboard size

My Full size Das is actually too large and I could use some more space for my mouse when playing games. The keypad is must-have when working on Excel for instance but not so useful otherwise.
I have watched some possible layouts and need a proper ESC key, F keys and arrow plus some keys on the right part (DEL, END, PRT SC).
Following keys are rather useless for me but come with the standard layout: SCR LCK, PAUSE, HOME, PGE UP, PGE DWN.
Maybe they have some specific utility that I am not aware of. I would go for this kind of layout and size.
Is it difficult to get the LEDs under the keys? What do I need to plan to get them properly working? Is there any influence on the switches, wiring, firmware? It is not clear to me how this works.



For the space bar size, I think I will go with a 6 units bar to get the bigger alt and control keys left and right that I use a lot.
Is there a more 'standard' size for the space bar (6 or 6.25)? I am not sure what is more common to avoid problems finding custom key sets.



Well I guess that's pretty much it for the size itself. I just need to learn how the LEDs would work and what it implies.

[Rakanishu2199]

Alright so I read in a similar topic that adding LEDs is quite complex and that it should not be considered for simple projects.
I will just go for standard Tenkeyless layout as shown above without any customization and without LEDs.

Switches

The important part of this keyboard! There I have gathered a lot of information already but I would like to know more about the new Cherry-like switches.

The only switches I have used so far are MX Blues from my Das. I like the tactility of it but they are quit loud.
Biggest problem is the fact that the release point of key is higher than the actuation point, which is bad when playing games. Great for typing though.
I saw that MX Browns use the same actuation / release point and are quieter so I might go for these.
MX switches are very expensive  though and quite hard to find even though they are initially from here (Germany)... Any tips?

Greetech / Gateron / Kailh
- does someone use them? are they good? any good way to find them in Europe?
- do these switches have the same actuation / release point in their brown version? and clear versions?
- should I wait for a group buy or something similar to get switches?

I actually like how Gateron Browns actuate and sound:

Another option would be to go for Alps switches (these sound great):

Matias is offering such switches at a reasonable price (200 switches for $50). The main problem is finding keycaps (only Matias would offer keysets at the moment).

After thinking about it for a while I think I will stick to Cherry compatible switches for my first keyboard to keep it simpler to build.

Stabilizers

I am very concerned about getting the right feeling for my space bar. I am really disapointed with my Das space bar. It feels sluggish and sticky and bottoms out almost right after the actuation point.
What are the options for space bar stabilizers? The other keys use Costar stabilizers (well the ones with a steel part) and are OK. They wobble a bit but it is not a problem.

Has anyone tested building keyboard with mixed switches? Tactile and linear space bar for instance? I am afraid it would feel really weird.

In the end

So far I think I will just go with quiet tactile Cherry-like switches, if possible cheap ones because I am not really concerned about the durability of the keyboard.
Do you guys have tips to find and buy such switches (I cant read Chinese) and have any recommandation (Gateron? Greetech? Kailh?)?

Depending on how good the first keyboard, I might build an ALPS keyboard afterwards to see how it performs vs. Cherry copies.

[Rakanishu2199]

Stabilizers

WASD is selling the necessary parts for Costar stabilizers (modifiers + space bar). I will just get these.

Keycaps

I will go for white blank keycaps (I still can not touch type properly and need to build muscle memory for the keys I use more rarely). Blank caps will help with this.
Currently I am using black keycaps on my Das keyboard but the smallest amount of dust make it look dirty.

I will probably go for these keycaps (cheap white blank PBT set): http://www.geekkeys.com/blank-pbt-104-keyset/
Would you guys recommand these or something else? I have close to no experience so I do not know if these are good (they use 6.25 space bar too).

Another option would be those from Max: http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-ansi-104-key-cherry-mx-full-replacement-keycap-set-blank.html
They come with 6.00 space bar but they use ABS plastic which is worse than PBT (from what I have read, is this right?).

Switches

Some guys tested mixed switches on the same board in another topic but did not really find it good in the end.
I will just go with one type of switches (quiet tactile). Finding switches in a reasonable amount or at a reasonable price is a big issue though...

[metalliqaz]

Looks like a fun project and I wish you luck!

I'll try to answer some of the questions you posed in your write-up...

I like the bottom row you've chosen.  (Realforce 87U style).  6x spacebars aren't particularly common in MX but they can definitely be found.  Cherry made an offset version and SP sells a few center stem versions.  6.25 are the most common, and 7x are easy to find in Tsangan kits.

LEDs under the keys is not difficult in of itself.  MX switches have a built-in spot for them.  They make the wiring much more complicated, though.  Also if you have full backlighting, you need a driver because a typical microcontroller can't provide enough power.

Finding switches can sometimes be hard.  If you're serious, perhaps you should join the Gateron buy on Massdrop before it finishes.  Gaterons seem to have a good reputation, though I've only used Cherry.

Costar stabilizers typically have the feel that people like (not mushy).

White keycaps get dirty as quick or quicker than black, in my experience. 

[Joey Quinn]

I've built a custom from the ground up, my build log is here. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61141.0

If you have any questions about design or building feel free to pm me.

[Rakanishu2199]

I've built a custom from the ground up, my build log is here. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61141.0

If you have any questions about design or building feel free to pm me.

Thanks! I'll go for hand wiring though I guess. PCB design looks kind of complicated for me at the moment. For the next keyboard I guess. 

Finding switches can sometimes be hard.  If you're serious, perhaps you should join the Gateron buy on Massdrop before it finishes.  Gaterons seem to have a good reputation, though I've only used Cherry.

Oh I had looked for it but it was not active anymore. Thanks for the tip. Currently $48 for 120 switches, is this correct or too expensive?
I might go for Greetech Browns if the Group Buy on Geekheck happens. After reading some reviews it looks like the are the most tactile of all Cherry copies.

White keycaps get dirty as quick or quicker than black, in my experience. 

Dang I was afraid of this as well... I would then go for grey but I find it ugly. 

[metalliqaz]

Just get the ones you want and clean them when they get dirty

[Rakanishu2199]

So I have been investigating about the possible sources for getting switches.
Would you guys recommend buying directly on Taobao or am I missing something important?

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.241.0JJdni&id=39980885412&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail

[metalliqaz]

taobao is a good source, but if you're in the USA, you need a proxy.  I have used qtan in the past but I don't know if he's still an active taobao proxy.

[Rakanishu2199]

I am in Europe. Don't they send to the USA or Europe? Do you necessarily need a proxy?
Sorry about the discussion drifting away a bit but it helps me understand what the possibilities are, thanks! 

[Rakanishu2199]

I am pretty confident I will go for the Gateron Massdrop now. I am just a bit concerned about possible customs taxes. Any feedback from you?

Controller

Pretty much all the topics I have read so far say that I should go for a Teensy 2.0 for a TKL layout. Can you guys please confirm that the number of inputs is high enough?
I still have to read the topics about wiring and matrix scanning so I am not sure how many wires will go from my 87 keys to the controller.
Connector will then be a standard Mini-USB to USB cable (which makes me realize how ridiculously small the Teensy 2.0 board is).

Edit: how hard is it to hand-solder the Teensy? It looks like I am going to solder 5 wires together because the holes are so close?!

Case

This has to be the points with the highest uncertainty and which gives me the most difficulties.
I still have not made my mind about the structure, material, mounting, color, etc.
The best way for me would be to look at a huge number of DIY projects and take what I like from each one!

Preparing the final parts looks complex too (I have almost never done any CAD drawing and laser cutting or similar).

[metalliqaz]

I have no idea what the taxes are for MD buys.  I'm in the USA so I don't have to worry about it.

The Teensy 2.0 can support a TKL layout.  In fact, it was used for the famous Phantom PCB, which is an extended TKL.  There are just enough pins

As it turns out, my firmware supports a hand-wired board using the same configuration as the Phantom.  (a 6x17 matrix with 2 LEDs) So if you don't like compiling software, you may want to consider that before you start soldering.

Don't worry about the soldering.  Through-hole is super easy compared to SMD.

[Rakanishu2199]

Hey thanks for the answer. I definitely want to write the firmware myself (just to understand how it works). Thanks for proposing though. 

I will go for the Teensy 2.0 then!

[Oobly]

I would go with a more standard bottom row simply because of keycap choices. The ONLY set I know with a 6x spacebar is the MAX universal set.

Yes, SP do make 6x spacebars, but none of the full sets they sell includes one, and the separate ones they sell are avalailable in very limited options (DCS and DSA profiles only, DCS is only available in one colour and DSA in only six colours, none for SA profile).

So I would highly recommend 6.25x or 7x size spacebar as they're the most common and you can fit almost any set you like. Keycaps can really change the feel of the board, so if you use a standard layout you can try different profiles, materials and colours to find a set that matches your custom board perfectly. After all, you're putting all the effort into making it, why settle for one set of keycaps or lock yourself out of later options.

The Teensy 2.0 is a very good choice. There are a lot of keyboard firmwares for it that already exist that you can use as a starting point or take ideas from. I used the Phantom firmware code as a starting point for my own custom board.

In terms of switches, Browns are quite okay, but Clears are better, IMO. They are more tactile, but have stronger springs.

In Europe, a good source for switches is ebay.de, look for 2nd hand or new Cherry G80 boards (you can find new ones for around 60€ = 0.58 per switch) or new ones from Amazon.de. The letter code after the number will tell you what type of switches and keycaps it has: deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_article_numbers

The 1st letter is keycap type, 2nd is switch type / connector type. For Browns you want this to be "B", "K" or "X". For Clears you want "E", "Q", or "V".

Most of them tend to have Black or Blue switches, though. The "G80-3000LQCDE" or "G80-3000LQCEU" variants (both with lasered keycaps, Clear switches) are about the easiest to find of Clear / Brown boards.

You could also buy switches from http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=43
But I'm not sure how much you'll be charged in customs duties when they arrive.

Another option is to join a Gateron or Greetech Group Buy.

[Yoe]

A good source for buying switches in Europe is this: http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html

Just €4 shipping cost, and decent prices for the switches.

[Rakanishu2199]

I would go with a more standard bottom row simply because of keycap choices. The ONLY set I know with a 6x spacebar is the MAX universal set.

Yes, SP do make 6x spacebars, but none of the full sets they sell includes one, and the separate ones they sell are avalailable in very limited options (DCS and DSA profiles only, DCS is only available in one colour and DSA in only six colours, none for SA profile).

So I would highly recommend 6.25x or 7x size spacebar as they're the most common and you can fit almost any set you like. Keycaps can really change the feel of the board, so if you use a standard layout you can try different profiles, materials and colours to find a set that matches your custom board perfectly. After all, you're putting all the effort into making it, why settle for one set of keycaps or lock yourself out of later options.

Hey I have been realizing this today as well. Could not find good PBT keycaps with 6.00 space bar. I will go for a 6.25 layout I think, for the sake of compatibility.

I am pretty excited about getting my hands on the hardware and getting into coding the firmware for this.
Still have no idea for the case though. 

Just a random question: I understood you have to scan the matrix to avoid detecting keys that are not pressed (diodes + scanning).
AT which frequency can you scan with the Teensy 2.0? Would like to make sure that there is no significant input lag with this controller and standard matrix.

[metalliqaz]

I would go with a more standard bottom row simply because of keycap choices. The ONLY set I know with a 6x spacebar is the MAX universal set.

Yes, SP do make 6x spacebars, but none of the full sets they sell includes one, and the separate ones they sell are avalailable in very limited options (DCS and DSA profiles only, DCS is only available in one colour and DSA in only six colours, none for SA profile).

So I would highly recommend 6.25x or 7x size spacebar as they're the most common and you can fit almost any set you like. Keycaps can really change the feel of the board, so if you use a standard layout you can try different profiles, materials and colours to find a set that matches your custom board perfectly. After all, you're putting all the effort into making it, why settle for one set of keycaps or lock yourself out of later options.

Hey I have been realizing this today as well. Could not find good PBT keycaps with 6.00 space bar. I will go for a 6.25 layout I think, for the sake of compatibility.

I am pretty excited about getting my hands on the hardware and getting into coding the firmware for this.
Still have no idea for the case though. 

Just a random question: I understood you have to scan the matrix to avoid detecting keys that are not pressed (diodes + scanning).
AT which frequency can you scan with the Teensy 2.0? Would like to make sure that there is no significant input lag with this controller and standard matrix.

Why not go as fast as possible, and only back it off if you run into problems?

[Rakanishu2199]

Why not go as fast as possible, and only back it off if you run into problems?

Sure, just wanted to have an idea of what 'as fast as possible' is! I saw in your firmware topic that you offer 1 kHz polling rate which is pretty fast already. 

I have been looking for ideas for my case (material, mouting parts etc.) and I realized I could go for an extended Tenkeyless as well (similar to what the CM Quickifre TK does).
You can switch between function keys / arrows and keypad using NumLock, pretty smart. I hope they dont have a patent on this. 

Click here to say what I mean

Quickfire TK

Keycaps would not be a problem since I would buy a blank 104 set anyway. What now bothers me is to display when NumLock is active or not (LED?).
I dont really know how I could include it in the layout in a smart way. I would go for plate mounted switches on a metal plate and keep it minimalist (no case).
A single LED popping out of the metal plate would look pretty poor though, I have not found a good solution yet.

If you have ideas or know a keyboard that use such a layout, just tell me!   

[Rakanishu2199]

Hey guys,

So I have been looking for ideas for my new extended layout but there is still a problem that I need to solve.
I would add a LED to show if NumLock is active or not but two questions:

- How complicated does the hand-wiring get if I want to add one or two LEDs at the top right corner?
- Do you have any example of good-looking plate mounted keyboards without a full case that use LEDs?

[Rakanishu2199]

Switches ordered! 

[metalliqaz]

The problem is mounting the LEDs.  It's probably easiest to just mount them in the switches.  The wiring isn't hard, you just have to put a resistor in series with it.

[Rakanishu2199]

Hey, are Gateron switches compatible with LEDs then? If yes I would add a LED for caps lock and num lock and go for an adapted keyset.

[shaymdev]

Hey, are Gateron switches compatible with LEDs then? If yes I would add a LED for caps lock and num lock and go for an adapted keyset.

Yup they're compatible.