Author Topic: Phantom diodes  (Read 3643 times)

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Offline kgolden

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Phantom diodes
« on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 21:48:41 »
I've been searching for a bit now and haven't found the answer. Does it matter which side of the PCB the diodes are mounted on? I see the Deskthority site shows they are mounted on the plate/ key side but I've seen a few builds with the diodes mounted on the bottom/ teensy side. So does it matter? thanks

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 21:57:34 »
Side of the board doesn't matter, as long as you have the diode oriented properly between the pads, you will be fine.

Offline emenelopee

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 21:59:22 »
Electrically, no; physically, make sure they're clear of switches and stabilizers and switch plate clearance.

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 22:00:59 »
Okay that is what I thought. Thanks!

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 22:18:07 »
I know my soldering isn't perfect but I think they won't get in the way of switches.. hopefully.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 22:54:03 »
Looking good so far!
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Offline TalkingTree

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 04:42:43 »
Does it matter which side of the PCB the diodes are mounted on?
I prefer mounting discrete components on the bottom so I don't need to remove switches and plates if anything breaks.
My opensource projects: GH80-3000, TOAD, XMMX. Classified: stuff

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 05:53:13 »
Thanks Jdcarpe

Yeah I probably should have mounted them on the bottom just in case a diode fails.. next time I guess.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 07:55:28 »
It's true that it's better not to mount things under the plate if you don't have to, but since you've already soldered at least come diodes on that side, there is no harm in it.

Diodes hardly ever fail, at least at the low current we're talking about for keyboards. The main problem would be with a cold solder joint, and since these are through hole components, you can reflow from the back side of the PCB even without access to the component. Just don't reflow both solder joints at the same time, or you will be placing a new diode on the back. :)

I WOULD, however, be sure to solder the resistors for the lock indicator LEDs on the back side of the PCB. If you ever decide to change the LED and need to use a different value resistor, it will make it much easier to replace them if they aren't under the switch mounting plate.

Keep going! :D
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Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 11:15:19 »
Welp to be honest... it bugged me so much I have already begun moving the diodes to the other side of the board. Haha. I couldn't help myself. Seeing most people putting them on the bottom and seeing the reason why pushed me to move them. I'll have the diodes done today. My teensy will be here tomorrow. Plate and switches haven't shipped from mk yet. And still waiting on stabs to ship. Trying to decide on key caps now. Gaterons or Vortex. I just want thick pbt but I'll pull the trigger shortly.

Offline emenelopee

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 15:39:37 »
Welp to be honest... it bugged me so much I have already begun moving the diodes to the other side of the board. Haha. I couldn't help myself. Seeing most people putting them on the bottom and seeing the reason why pushed me to move them. I'll have the diodes done today. My teensy will be here tomorrow. Plate and switches haven't shipped from mk yet. And still waiting on stabs to ship. Trying to decide on key caps now. Gaterons or Vortex. I just want thick pbt but I'll pull the trigger shortly.

Careful you don't pull out the pads and traces when taking out the diodes - I've only ever ruined one pad and that was swapping diodes and resistors to the other side. It's a vanity fix which comes with risks is what I'm saying.
« Last Edit: Wed, 31 January 2018, 15:48:14 by emenelopee »

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 16:00:30 »
Yeah... I see I already pulled a pad. Wonderful

Offline emenelopee

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 17:26:40 »
Fingers crossed you didn't pull a trace with it - that's a more painful lesson.

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 17:49:12 »
Well it's not the cost of a pcb that would bother me, it's the time into it. I put together an led, wires and a battery to see if the diode and connections all still work. All seems good though as of right now. Maybe I'll just grab another pcb... I'd hate to solder up all these diodes and a few traces be too far gone. Definitely a good learning lesson.  :thumb:

Offline jdcarpe

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Phantom diodes
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 17:52:58 »
Don’t feel too bad...I messed up my first Phantom PCB, too. :facepalm:

Plus, this was back just after the original group buy, when you couldn’t just buy another PCB from a retailer...
« Last Edit: Wed, 31 January 2018, 17:54:53 by jdcarpe »
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


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Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 18:04:30 »
Ohh that must have been rough. So if the pad is missing, is a circuit more likely to fail or be more fragile?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 18:09:51 »
As long as it is bridged to the trace, it will be fine. You can use a piece of fine wire to make the bridge, but you’ll probably need to scrape a bit of the coating off the end of the trace to solder to it.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 18:49:53 »
I :)) I think I'd be better buying another PCB. I can solder alright but fixing traces and pads... meh I think its a bit above my abilities. I'll hold onto this PCB for a later project but grab another. Just got taxes back anyway... whats another 32$?

Edit: ordered a new PCB from MK
« Last Edit: Wed, 31 January 2018, 19:09:21 by kgolden »

Offline emenelopee

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 20:27:29 »
I've learned most from messing up - if I were you I'd get as far as I could to rehabilitate, especially if this is now a sacrificial board: if it's above your abilities now, it won't be after you're done and everything works. You'll also feel better about getting something out of a mistake. Godspeed!

Offline tanvir175

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 23:54:56 »
I :)) I think I'd be better buying another PCB. I can solder alright but fixing traces and pads... meh I think its a bit above my abilities. I'll hold onto this PCB for a later project but grab another. Just got taxes back anyway... whats another 32$?

Edit: ordered a new PCB from MK

Edit: I didn't see that you already bought another PCB but I still recommend what I've said below.


At the very least, give it a try. I've pulled a few pads (and one trace) here and there and have fixed it relatively easily. If you need guidance, I, and likely many others, do not mind helping.

Solder in all the diodes and the teensy. Then, before soldering in switches, hook it up to your computer and program the teensy with the proper firmware.Once you've got that done, use ESD safe tweezers to bridge the connection for each key and test it on keyboardtester.com

To bridge the connections, you literally place the tweezers into the two holes where the switch pins go and connect them. If it doesn't register right away, fiddle the tweezers around.
Note: When you press the ALT key in keyboardtester, you will need to click on the window to focus it again, otherwise the keypress won't register on the website and you might think it isn't working.

This shouldn't be difficult and is worth it. You're right. It's just $32. But this is valuable as learning experience. If you ****ed up, well you didn't mind buying a new one anyways and still gained some experience.

Should one of them not work at all, you can create bridges to unused pads. For example, the pads for my S65-X 2.25u Enter key were not working, so I bridged them to the pads that were right next to it and now I've got myself a working enter key. I also used this to fix a few keys on my MF68 that I managed to harm while desoldering it for the second time.

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 01 February 2018, 13:36:33 »
You guys have certainly been helpful to say the least. Thank You! I did order another pcb last night. I still going to continue on with the pcb that I screwed up on but I am also going to build the new pcb. The newer pcb will be for my primary and the other one will be for another machine that I have. I've already ordered more diodes and will grab another teensy... it's only money right..  :))

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 05 February 2018, 20:14:37 »
Alrighty.. let's get this party started again. Another PCB and more diodes. I will be building both of PCBs, one as my primary and one to tinker and test with. Probably run it on the wife's rig. I know my soldering isn't perfect but it'll get better.

Offline TalkingTree

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 06 February 2018, 03:09:04 »
There's a lenghty video you might wanna watch. There are some good advices there.

My opensource projects: GH80-3000, TOAD, XMMX. Classified: stuff

Offline kgolden

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 06 February 2018, 05:02:01 »
That's a pretty good video. It's actually the video I saw which made me ask the original question about the diodes but inpatient me jumped the gun and started soldering anyway. Oh well, good learning lesson.

Offline TonyD

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Re: Phantom diodes
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 07 February 2018, 04:49:58 »
Hi
I thought I would share this experience..

A quick way of replacing faulty axial components, resistors, diodes etc. without desoldering them and potentially damaging the PCB pads or tracks is to cut away the component body and leave its legs/wires/leads untouched. Then vertically straighten the old component legs and solder the legs from the replacement component directly onto the old legs. Finally, snip off any excess legs once soldered.


- Tony