Author Topic: new firefox tabs  (Read 5063 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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new firefox tabs
« on: Thu, 03 June 2021, 18:05:20 »
Are disgusting.


Here fix, about:config


browser.proton.enabled = false

browser.proton.contextmenus.enabled = false

browser.uidensity = 1

browser.compactmode.show = true

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 03 June 2021, 18:31:37 »
Saw this then updated firefox to see what you were complaining about and had flashbacks of the change from Win2k to XP waste-of-space cartoony UI.

Thanks for the easy fix :thumb:
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Offline Coreda

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 03 June 2021, 18:43:52 »
Haven't tried it so can't comment on it comparatively but I expect eventually just like Australis or whatever it was called this new UI will become the only one (idk if alternative skins will be supported with this new update). Ironically powerusers are the ones more likely to disable stats tracking so FF's usage stats for those who've disabled it will also be skewed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 03 June 2021, 18:45:25 by Coreda »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 03 June 2021, 18:48:45 »
Haven't tried it so can't comment on it comparatively but I expect eventually just like Australis or whatever it was called this new UI will become the only one (idk if alternative skins will be supported with this new update). Ironically powerusers are the ones more likely to disable stats tracking so FF's usage stats for those who've disabled it will also be skewed.

Incidentally australia just made a terrible movie, Occupation Rainfall..

Offline Findecanor

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 03 June 2021, 19:14:29 »
I'm still on an older version of Chromium because I want tabs to look like tabs.

How large is Firefox's source code, BTW? Would it be too much work to fork it and remove all the crap?

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 03 June 2021, 19:23:31 »
Thanketh

Offline BlueberryIsHere

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 07 June 2021, 08:08:21 »
Thanks for the fix OP. I personally don't mind them but I have a friend that hates them. I'll be sure to send it to them.  :thumb:
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 07 June 2021, 21:49:11 »
Once I changed the theme it was fine but that default theme was TERRIBLE.
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Offline aleck

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 10 June 2021, 13:22:35 »
You sir have made my day. Thanks a bunch.

Offline Coreda

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 11 August 2021, 06:52:56 »
Seems users who've disabled the new theme via about:config will encounter checked checkboxes appearing as unchecked. I'd expect more things to break over time.

Offline yui

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 13 August 2021, 13:22:40 »
i really do not understand mozzila, they are actively making they browser worse and do not understand why peoples are quitting and going to chrome(ium), quantum 1st killed themes and most extensions by completely changing their scripting language and removing the ability to modify the UI, now they are messing with the tabs, the only reason i am still using FF is because the way it handles tabs is better than chrome and also because it has less memory issues...
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 13 August 2021, 13:44:29 »
Huh the update didn't change anything for me

Offline Leslieann

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 13 August 2021, 22:44:38 »
The complaints about changing things, the whole CEO debacle, all of that is a drop in the bucket for people leaving. Yes, a few may leave over this stuff but it;s actually pretty rare for people to walk away from something the really like. People didn't top listening to Michael Jackson, Cosby actually went back out on tour after the allegations came out. I get it people get annoyed at changes and yes it may cost them a few people, but honestly this is NOT what is hurting them, in fact what is hurting is beyond their control and it's not the first time it's happened. When? Netscape and internet Explorer, Google is taking a page right out of that same playbook.

You have Edge that ships with Windows, Chrome that ships with Android and both have major mega corporations pumping money into them and advertising for them. You might think it doesn't matter but for many people they will use whatever works and is the most simple. All it takes is for them to get a new computer and now they start deciding what to use, Edge is already there and they probably want Chrome to sync bookmarks, add in the fact that Google purposely tests new non-html compliant features breaking other browsers on a regular basis, plus their docs, Firefox becomes a third wheel. Firefox only rose to where it was because once Internet Explorer destroyed Netscape (which was based on Mozilla's work)  Microsoft let it languish and become utter garbage. The market was ripe for something new. With MS and Google pouring money into these browsers and their native install on devices, Firefox has no way to beat them so long as they perform even mediocre and Firefox is the absolute biggest baddest thing ever, people will not seek it out so long as their built in browser works fine. And with MS building off Chrome it's even more perilous because now MS doesn't even have to work that hard to be mediocre much less good. Meaning Firefox is screwed. Lest you think pre-installed doesn't help, ask yourself where is Dolphin browser on Android today? And why are Chrome users not using Brave instead of Chrome or any other Chrome based browser?


If you really want to change Firefox's luck, break up Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook and Apple, all five have a stranglehold on the internet that should not be allowed.
No Twitter? Twitter is pretty much only Twitter, how do you break that up? It's powerful, though possibly exaggerated, but it doesn't have it's tendrils in everything like the others do.
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Offline Coreda

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 13 August 2021, 23:28:58 »
The complaints about changing things, the whole CEO debacle, all of that is a drop in the bucket for people leaving.

You have Edge that ships with Windows, Chrome that ships with Android and both have major mega corporations pumping money into them and advertising for them. You might think it doesn't matter but for many people they will use whatever works and is the most simple.

If you really want to change Firefox's luck, break up Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook and Apple, all five have a stranglehold on the internet that should not be allowed.

Sure, I think it's obvious that Google pushing Chrome so hard for years on their own platforms and elsewhere are primarily what gained them the 'majority' userbase. Add to that the knock-on effect of due to its increased market share the less devs tested as much with other browsers (leading to negative experiences with other browsers, sometimes intentionally by Google themselves), their tie-ins with Google accounts, extensions only compatible with Chromium, etc.

Similarly of course whatever MS includes by default will enjoy a chunk of the market share, too.

However an issue has been FF has also contributed to this themselves, for that percentage of their audience who make up power-users, previous fans, generally those who aren't just using a browser stock (for whom it would barely matter which browser they used).

Some things they deemed necessary like the Quantum addon change were nevertheless handled in a way that burned fans. If anyone was paying attention at the time they didn't implement the APIs necessary for various addons and features to migrate to the new system, despite developers requesting them via tickets, detailing them, blogging about them.

It was personally like experiencing a repeat of Opera's "under the hood" change in engines where they stripped out much of what its userbase had used and recommended the browser for (ironically it would be Opera's co-founder that left years prior that would deliver such desired features with the Vivaldi browser, also using the Chromium engine).

That itself caused that chunk of the userbase who had no alternative to a) stick with an older version (impractical long-term) or, including myself, ending up switching to Chromium (via Vivaldi). Even to this day FF lacks MHTML support that I use all the time and which it had for the longest time prior, including from an official Mozilla addon. It's UnMHT addon was the best webpage saving addon bar none—even Chromium's native MHTML saving misses things UnMHT saves in 1:1 comparisons (apart from the superb auto filename character replacement feature, the lack of which still wastes time on Chromium).

There are other things Mozilla have done since that will have attracted some users (DNS over HTTPS, account containers) and repelled others (undesired changes, public messaging, whathaveyou). It's still important to have engine diversity of course though I couldn't return to it for regular use due to the useful things missing it once had.
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 August 2021, 23:31:37 by Coreda »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 14 August 2021, 01:10:22 »
However an issue has been FF has also contributed to this themselves, for that percentage of their audience who make up power-users, previous fans, generally those who aren't just using a browser stock (for whom it would barely matter which browser they used).
Power users are not a large percentage of users by any means.
They also tend to move to whatever works best for them and often willing to move back and forth if needed or run multiple browsers whenever needed (I use 3 and sometimes up to 5).


Some things they deemed necessary like the Quantum addon change were nevertheless handled in a way that burned fans. If anyone was paying attention at the time they didn't implement the APIs necessary for various addons and features to migrate to the new system, despite developers requesting them via tickets, detailing them, blogging about them.
Some left, some came back as addons were rebuilt.

If you actually go look at usage stats it had absolutely zero impact (sort of).
274288-0

Zoomed in, Nov 2017 was when Quantum rolled out.
If you look really close (hover over the data points), the stats actually went UP after the change. The first increase, however small, in years (I'm shocked as well to be honest).

It's almost as if publicity is key. Hmmm...


There are other things Mozilla have done since that will have attracted some users (DNS over HTTPS, account containers) and repelled others (undesired changes, public messaging, whathaveyou).
Most people don't even know what any of that means.
If you go look at the charts it has not mattered what they did right or wrong it changed pretty much nothing because they're not in control of where the numbers go, Google and MS are due to advertising and a preinstalled user base. Launch a billion dollar ad campaign you will see the numbers trend up. Get it preinstalled on all Android or Windows machines the numbers will tick up.

Do you think Chromebooks would be where they are without Googld helping advertise it? Not a chance in hell. They'd be in the recycling bin next to the Linux netbooks.
The best product rarely ever wins, it's whoever has the bigger advertising budget. If it wasn't effective websites wouldn't be covered in ads.
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 August 2021, 01:12:09 by Leslieann »
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Offline Coreda

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 14 August 2021, 01:42:28 »
Power users are not a large percentage of users by any means.

It's almost as if publicity is key. Hmmm... The best product rarely ever wins, it's whoever has the bigger advertising budget. If it wasn't effective websites wouldn't be covered in ads.

Not sure what you read into my post as I had already detailed that. And again, my point wasn't about the majority, I was highlighting how it affected of the type of users who read topics like this, the type who recommend browsers to others, the ones mentioned in the initial paragraph you quote.

The rest is entirely out of our control when it comes to the undertaking of breaking up giant corporations throwing their weight around but discussing why users one can actually talk to choose browsers, or the issues devs have had is something possible.

I can simultaneously acknowledge (and have written about periodically online) how Google's efforts to promote and integrate their browser contributed heavily (and one could argue unfairly) to its adoption while also discussing issues regarding a competing browser. I'd love if FF had all of what I appreciated about it prior.
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 August 2021, 01:52:41 by Coreda »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 14 August 2021, 05:11:38 »
Chrome is for SIMPS..

Offline fanpeople

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 14 August 2021, 05:13:20 »
Chrome is for SIMPS..

But I like to feed my data to Google... Keep him nice and full of data.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 14 August 2021, 05:17:30 »
Chrome is for SIMPS..

But I like to feed my data to Google... Keep him nice and full of data.

If tp4 can block everything besides text, he would.

Proper Internet usage.

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Offline fanpeople

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 14 August 2021, 05:19:50 »
Dam so washed out.... Perfect for AI.

Offline yui

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 14 August 2021, 15:57:21 »
When? Netscape and internet Explorer, Google is taking a page right out of that same playbook.
the thing is, it changed, Firefox and then Chrome took number 1 place without being preinstalled on anything after internet explorer stole it from netscape, it is not at all a guaranty that the default windows browser is going to be popular, Firefox started losing steam because google managed to make a better browser at the time and never managed to do more than catch up since (well some says that google is using its market dominance to make others look worse, might also have something to do in it), and now that default windows browser is back at being an halfwat decent option, some peoples stopped bothering.
and quantum may have had no impact on rollout but as peoples got slowly pushed out of the LTS i feel it may, it would have affected power users, who knows of LTS and would install it if bothered by a change (what i did), only thing is that by continuously removing features you will not gain market shares, ever.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 14 August 2021, 21:43:07 »
When? Netscape and internet Explorer, Google is taking a page right out of that same playbook.
the thing is, it changed, Firefox and then Chrome took number 1 place without being preinstalled on anything after internet explorer stole it from netscape, it is not at all a guaranty that the default windows browser is going to be popular, Firefox started losing steam because google managed to make a better browser at the time and never managed to do more than catch up since (well some says that google is using its market dominance to make others look worse, might also have something to do in it), and now that default windows browser is back at being an halfwat decent option, some peoples stopped bothering.
and quantum may have had no impact on rollout but as peoples got slowly pushed out of the LTS i feel it may, it would have affected power users, who knows of LTS and would install it if bothered by a change (what i did), only thing is that by continuously removing features you will not gain market shares, ever.
Firefox wasn't pre-installed, it was grass roots but it was because of how old and bad I.E. was.
At peak MS had 125 people working on I.E., once Netscape folded it was knocked down to something like 3.  It was forgotten and there was zero innovation going on. Firefox comes along with plugins and was easy to use so it just slowly gained ground.

Chrome wasn't pre-installed at first, very true, and Firefox wasn't trash but it was a few years old and Google did have something Firefox didn't, cash, lots of it, and Google search. Google flooded the internet with ads and plugs for it. Google has something like 80% of the ad market, a ton of the Email market, plus Google search which was like 90% of the search market and of course Youtube, you can't tell me none of that played a factor. You don't need an OS monopoly to preinstall your software when you have a near monopoly on the whole freaking internet.



The charts show Quantum had no downside for Firefox.
I know we all thought it did and many wanted it to, but it's just not true.
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 05:11:34 »
Just realised my tabs look crap, though my settings still match the OP.  Did they look even worse than this?  I hope not...

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 07:01:02 »
Just realised my tabs look crap, though my settings still match the OP.  Did they look even worse than this?  I hope not...

Show Image


they changed it again, :(

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 07:12:26 »
Just realised my tabs look crap, though my settings still match the OP.  Did they look even worse than this?  I hope not...

Show Image


they changed it again, :(

Damn.  Changed browser.tabs.tabMinWidth to 90 so there's actually some text to identify the tab but still looks crap.  Is Safari still a viable alternative if I buy a Mac?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 07:34:58 »
Damn.  Changed browser.tabs.tabMinWidth to 90 so there's actually some text to identify the tab but still looks crap.  Is Safari still a viable alternative if I buy a Mac?

Only if you're ok with sneaky ads, and no legit scriptblocking.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 09:28:07 »
Try this theme.
Been working fine for me for a while.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/dark-ocean-theme-webextension/
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 09:30:10 »
Damn.  Changed browser.tabs.tabMinWidth to 90 so there's actually some text to identify the tab but still looks crap.  Is Safari still a viable alternative if I buy a Mac?
Only if you're ok with sneaky ads, and no legit scriptblocking.
No, I am not.  Guess I'll have to tolerate crappy looking tabs :(
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 09:48:07 »
Try this theme.
Been working fine for me for a while.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/dark-ocean-theme-webextension/
Thanks, that does look better.  The tabs still have unnecessarily huge borders all round them though.
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Offline azzipa

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 12:52:48 »
i’ve stuck with ff however wondering about any insights for Brave browser?

Offline yui

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 13:25:19 »
Brave is chromium based, like now all the others, and i am not quite sure if it is the same but if it is the browser made by comodo it is rather unsecured
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Offline azzipa

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 16:42:23 »
Brave is chromium based, like now all the others, and i am not quite sure if it is the same but if it is the browser made by comodo it is rather unsecured

brave is chromium based but not comodo.

also, i checked out dark ocean theme for ff (ty leslieann) but think i'll stick with dark.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 21:11:04 »
Brave browser is WAY better than Chrome, probably the best Chrome based browser in terms of resource use especially when coupled with adblocking, unfortunately the company has some questionable practices. Chromium isn't terrible but it lacks some features. On Windows Edge is your best bet, Microsoft gets this data regardless, you my as well use a low resource version and limit who else gets data. Pretty much everyone else is using it to scrape data

No matter what Chromium based browser you use Google is getting a ton of data it's only a mater of how much, forget about them tracking incognito (lawsuit already in progress), forget that new cookie they promoted (what a joke), the truth is that Google doesn't need access to Chrome or Chromium for tracking, nor do they need cookies. Load up an adblocker and look at just how many websites use some Google service, almost every website uses ads, fonts,tags, analytics or Double Click. In other words, you pull something from them for almost every site anyhow and each time they get a (unique) fingerprint and it responds to commands to send extra data so if you get a hit from 90% of the sites anyhow a cookie becomes almost pointless. Do they get as much as you using Chrome, not quite but it's still a lot more data than they get from Firefox which makes an effort to mask fingerprinting

If you really want to mess with their fingerprinting and tracking use Firefox with adblocking and containerized tabs with dedicated containers for your commonly visited sites. Cache and cookies are not shared between containers so they lose a ton of tracking data.


Glad the theme helped at least some, S.O., Azzipa you may want to check out some FF forums (and reddit?) and see if someone has a css script of config change that will help. It may also need two tweaks to widen then different theme to get it where you're happy. Despite it not supporting it for plugins it does still respond to scripting to alter some aspects of the interface. I was using one to put tabs on bottom for a while. Months later I still hate them on top but I;m slowly getting used to it, may as well since everyone has gone to it and Mozilla has made it more and more difficult with each significant upgrade.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 22:19:33 »
If Tp4 buys a tent and live in the yard, is he save from the goog ?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 23:57:16 »
If Tp4 buys a tent and live in the yard, is he save from the goog ?
How long can you go without internet?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 22 August 2021, 05:35:16 »
If Tp4 buys a tent and live in the yard, is he save from the goog ?
How long can you go without internet?

It's been 22 seconds, already succumbing to withdrawal symptoms. Incessant anxiousness + chills + mild fever

Offline Leslieann

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 22 August 2021, 21:05:40 »
If Tp4 buys a tent and live in the yard, is he save from the goog ?
How long can you go without internet?

It's been 22 seconds, already succumbing to withdrawal symptoms. Incessant anxiousness + chills + mild fever

That joke is a little less funny with delta running rampant.
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| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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| KBT Race S L.E.
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| Das Pro
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| GH60
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| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: new firefox tabs
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 05:02:23 »
That joke is a little less funny with delta running rampant.

Could be coming down with delta psychosis.