Author Topic: Hurikan Ida  (Read 2414 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Hurikan Ida
« on: Sun, 29 August 2021, 16:51:19 »
We bout'2 die ??

Previous Katrina were cat 3,  this is cat 4, n'none o'these places have hospital beds.


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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 29 August 2021, 20:44:30 »
The only good thing about it is that it is moving fast. Those sluggish ones can dump a vast amount of rain in the same place.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 29 August 2021, 23:41:46 »
There's another hitting Arizona from the Gulf of California
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 30 August 2021, 07:51:53 »
Only 1 confirmed death.  That's pretty gud'

Offline chyros

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 02:52:25 »
One thing I never understood was that in America where there are constant tornados and hurricanes and scary stuff, they build their houses out of goddamn wood, while over here, where we have very few natural disasters, we build them out of brick and mortar Oo . If anything it should be the exact other way around!

(although we might need to start living in boats in a few years if global climate change keeps progressing at this rate)
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 04:27:04 »
wood's cheaper, so wooood. !!

Europe just jelly 'murica super gud' @ killing trees and causing irreparable climate disaster.

Offline chyros

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 04:44:52 »
wood's cheaper, so wooood. !!

Europe just jelly 'murica super gud' @ killing trees and causing irreparable climate disaster.

Well yeah, but is it really cheaper if your house gets blown away every year? Oo  This is the thing I don't understand!
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 08:44:05 »

is it really cheaper if your house gets blown away every year?


"It's complicated"

For openers, the physical reality is that we have about 300K square miles of forest in the US so wood is a relatively cheap and plentiful commodity. And secondly, there are specific areas that are subject to regular natural disasters while most others are not.

The psychological reality (in concert with "don't confuse me with facts, I want what I want") is that when urban sprawl really took off in earnest after WW2, people wanted big houses on big lots and were willing to drive miles to commute to work, school, and other tasks. Wood construction (in the construction business we call it "stick-building") is fast, cheap, and profitable.

Early on in life, I moved to Florida briefly and rented a little house (concrete block walls) that was too low and too close to a river. Within a year there was both a tornado and a flood there. After that I have never lived anywhere that was not "uphill" (at the minimum). But many people don't consider consequences and choose to live in vulnerable areas because they are pleasant and attractive. I absolutely love beach vacations but would never buy a house there.

It is pretty much the same as electric cars, everybody "wants" one. But "demand" is not wanting something, it is being willing to put forth the money and effort that is realistically required to get it. I have always said that demand drives markets. "Supply side economics" is an absurd fiction that has never worked. When Americans begin to actually demand viable construction in secure areas, it will start to happen. But just as with with cars, there will be a huge inventory of "inferior merchandise" that will continue to be passed down to lower and lower economic tiers for years to come.

Here in America, we generally rely on insurance to underwrite loss. We are now in a situation where getting health care is a fierce struggle because there is a schizophrenic subculture who has been trained to think "we don't want the gub'ment in our lives" with regard to health care. But they also expect it to underwrite insurance companies to replace buildings destroyed by hurricanes and wildfires. Without federal government subsidies, the insurance landscape in vulnerable areas would look very different (I worked for FEMA for a while), and reality would take hold. As Leslieann put it elsewhere, it would be time to "plow it under and not rebuild"

In current American society, it will be up to the insurance conundrum to drive people out of the areas where they shouldn't be living.
 
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 09:28:22 »
only 1 death reported in Louisiana,  25 deaths in NJ 10+ in NY, 10+ in Pen

What are they hiding..  /Foil hat on, Arms folded

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 09:45:02 »

reported in Louisiana


They can't even get in to find them yet.
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Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 11:15:26 »
Some they wont find too depending on the water level and flow.

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 18:47:19 »
Felt a sudden shake in the middle of this morning.

Turns out a Neighboring town nightclub (wedding hall) had a broken gas pipe, and the whole place blew up. (Ida damage)

Thought it was earth quake, but NAHhhh,  just explosion shockwave.. Much safer.  Thanks climate change.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 22:07:33 »
One thing I never understood was that in America where there are constant tornados and hurricanes and scary stuff, they build their houses out of goddamn wood, while over here, where we have very few natural disasters, we build them out of brick and mortar Oo . If anything it should be the exact other way around!

(although we might need to start living in boats in a few years if global climate change keeps progressing at this rate)
Depends where you live as to what you deal with.
As for materials, wood was started because it's cheap, plentiful and easy.

Brick buioldings hate earthquakes, that was one of the first lessons to come out of the Great San Francisco Quake. . On the west coast wood has been found to resist earthquakes better than almost any other construction method for single family homes and when/if it does collapse it's less likely to kill you. Would you rather a few boards fall on you or bricks/steel beam/concrete slab fall on you? There are some concrete homes though, the problem is price especially with earthquake reinforcments, since it's not really warranted it becomes more of a luxury.  Cheaper and easier to just double insulate.

You really can't stop tornadoes only hide from them but they are also extreme pinpoints really. Of all that touch down, few actually hit much and the same spot may never be hit again or even ever hit to begin with. Is it worth trying to fight it or simply hide and hope it misses that one time in 10000 years it hits that spot? Wood is actually better from a collapsing standpoint (similar to earthquakes), unless it goes airborne and starts impaling things (which it does) but if you're in a basement you're fine. Unfortunately most homes in Oklahoma (tornado central) do not have them because it's almost all solid bedrock and extremely expensive to dig a basement so yeah, they just tend to YOLO it and hope for the best. It's usually fine.

As for hurricanes, concrete homes make sense and some people do have them but they're much more expensive, often times more than the difference in insurance costs and like tornadoes are somewhat unpredictable. The places that are predictable though, yeah I agree. Though It would be nice if we could get places to stop building in flood plains, sandbars and swamps (Houston/New Orleans, most of Florida, etc..).
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Offline chyros

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 04 September 2021, 05:22:11 »
One thing I never understood was that in America where there are constant tornados and hurricanes and scary stuff, they build their houses out of goddamn wood, while over here, where we have very few natural disasters, we build them out of brick and mortar Oo . If anything it should be the exact other way around!

(although we might need to start living in boats in a few years if global climate change keeps progressing at this rate)
Depends where you live as to what you deal with.
As for materials, wood was started because it's cheap, plentiful and easy.

Brick buioldings hate earthquakes, that was one of the first lessons to come out of the Great San Francisco Quake. . On the west coast wood has been found to resist earthquakes better than almost any other construction method for single family homes and when/if it does collapse it's less likely to kill you. Would you rather a few boards fall on you or bricks/steel beam/concrete slab fall on you? There are some concrete homes though, the problem is price especially with earthquake reinforcments, since it's not really warranted it becomes more of a luxury.  Cheaper and easier to just double insulate.

You really can't stop tornadoes only hide from them but they are also extreme pinpoints really. Of all that touch down, few actually hit much and the same spot may never be hit again or even ever hit to begin with. Is it worth trying to fight it or simply hide and hope it misses that one time in 10000 years it hits that spot? Wood is actually better from a collapsing standpoint (similar to earthquakes), unless it goes airborne and starts impaling things (which it does) but if you're in a basement you're fine. Unfortunately most homes in Oklahoma (tornado central) do not have them because it's almost all solid bedrock and extremely expensive to dig a basement so yeah, they just tend to YOLO it and hope for the best. It's usually fine.

As for hurricanes, concrete homes make sense and some people do have them but they're much more expensive, often times more than the difference in insurance costs and like tornadoes are somewhat unpredictable. The places that are predictable though, yeah I agree. Though It would be nice if we could get places to stop building in flood plains, sandbars and swamps (Houston/New Orleans, most of Florida, etc..).
Interesting, I didn't know that! Thanks!
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 04 September 2021, 09:24:23 »
I was just listening to interviews with people from Houma, Louisiana, on NPR. They had also suffered a major hurricane last year, and more in recent years. They all said similar things, and one man seemed more thoughtful and articulate than most of the others, but he was still completely blind to the big picture, in my opinion.

He said "I'm tired. I'm tired of being "resilient" I just want to catch a break but I can't see a way forward."

Obviously his situation is heartbreaking but the path forward is quite clear to the rest of us - Go somewhere where hurricanes don't blow you away on a regular basis ! The other hypothetical alternative would be to build something back that can withstand hurricanes, but with inexorable sea level rise that would likely buy you only a few years at most.   

For me, I think that the only way I can understand this conundrum is that there is a significant sub-population who cannot even visualize any life except for the one they have. It seems to me that is a failure of imagination aggravated by an educational system that discourages critical thinking.

My guess is that most of us, hearing a man say something like "My family has been living here and fishing for 6 generations but I am hardly catching anything any more." would think that was cool and interesting but obviously that good long run is over now and it is time to move on.

It seems strange that the original American spirit of independence that flowed from the ability to go somewhere new and start a new life for yourself has become perverted, in certain population groups, into a spirit of "I want to live and do what I want to do - and you can't make me live and do what you want me to do."

But now, with conspiracy theories insinuating that even sincere efforts to help must have some sinister undercurrent, a downward spiral seems to have them trapped in a hopeless situation.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 04 September 2021, 10:24:03 »

For me, I think that the only way I can understand this conundrum is that there is a significant sub-population who cannot even visualize any life except for the one they have. It seems to me that is a failure of imagination aggravated by an educational system that discourages critical thinking.

My guess is that most of us, hearing a man say something like "My family has been living here and fishing for 6 generations but I am hardly catching anything any more." would think that was cool and interesting but obviously that good long run is over now and it is time to move on.



It's not a SUB - Population, it's by far the Majority.

Critical thinking IS the SUB.


As for the fish,   STOP EATING MEAT...  it's gross, raised in the animal's own toilet, full of diseases, chemicals, causes cancer, heart disease, diabetes.

Put on your ENGINEERING GLASSES,  and look at how Animal Farming is done today,  IT'S A giant TOILET.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 04 September 2021, 10:49:19 »

It's not a SUB - Population, it's by far the Majority.


Do you enjoy advertising that you are so profoundly uninformed ?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/10/us-geographic-mobility/504968/
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 04 September 2021, 10:54:43 »

It's not a SUB - Population, it's by far the Majority.


Do you enjoy advertising that you are so profoundly uninformed ?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/10/us-geographic-mobility/504968/

Do you enjoy writing dangling modifiers, and blaming others for your inadequate prose?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Hurikan Ida
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 04 September 2021, 20:52:44 »
For me, I think that the only way I can understand this conundrum is that there is a significant sub-population who cannot even visualize any life except for the one they have. It seems to me that is a failure of imagination aggravated by an educational system that discourages critical thinking.
Fear.
Fear of their life changing, fear of losing friends, fear of other people, fear of pretty much everything they aren't familiar with.
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