Using Cherry Corp DoubleShot Keys on Your Filco/Wasd/Rosewill etc...

[timw4mail]

Funny thing about that...The Scorpius has four switch sockets on the spacebar.

[timw4mail]

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So overall I'm pretty happy with this.  The next trick is to find a replacement right shift key.  I think the G81-8000 series is my best bet so I found one on Ebay for $115.  Too much (it's USED too).  He takes offers so I offered $20.  He came back with $85.  Hahahahahaha!

I might have to keep on looking.  Anybody has some ideas here please post them - they gotta be around somewhere.

Also, what's up with those Cherry front row keys???

On my "Otaku" Scorpius, the Windows keys and Context Menu keys are letter sized, so the Filco keycaps wouldn't fit.

Apparently, in terms of solidity:

Cherry Double-shot > Filco > iOne

Now where could I find a set of black keys for my Model F?

[clickclack]

Interesting, it makes the Filco sound more like the Das. (just from your recordings) Just for the heck of it do you happen to know how much the Das keys weigh and/or relative thickness? I remember the pictures of the Das and someone saying they were thicker (I think it was in the "battle of the ESC keys")

great post btw

[itlnstln]

This would probably explain some of the reasons my G80-3000 sounds different than my Filco.  It seems Cherry uses more stout caps than Costar.  It's weird, though, because I always felt that the Cherry caps were lighter, but then again, I have laser-etched caps and not the double-shot ones.  I'll have to find a scale and check a few out.

[megarat]

While I don't have such in-depth quantitative information, I noticed the same effect when I "converted" my Filco Zero to original ALPS switches and SGI keycaps.  The SGI keycaps -- while not double-shot are still quite burly -- feel much more solid and have a much more industrious sound.  The feel is especially palpable.

We face a similar conundrum:  populating a modern board with older keycaps and trying to get the bottom row (and perhaps other modifier keys) to fit properly.  Everything else fits and looks great, but some keys just won't fit without serious modification, either to the keys or the board itself.

For Phase Two of my keyboard project, I'm planning to achieve this "final mile" with some drilling, soldering, and electrical-taping (not to mention welding and plasma-cutting, since ALPS switches need to be mounted to a metal plate).  I hope to start next month and I expect I'll have something to report -- let's hope it's positive -- by Novemberish.

[keyb_gr]

1989 G80-1xxxHAD Esc: Back 1.73 mm, sides 1.53/1.58 mm, front 1.49 mm.
1993 G80-3000HAD Esc: Back 1.67 mm, sides 1.49 mm, front 1.44 mm.
1996 G80-3000LFADE Esc: All between 1.40 and 1.47 mm, with the sides again taking middle positions.
2004 G80-3456LQMDE Esc: Back 0.94 mm, sides 0.82 mm, front 0.75 mm. Darn cost-cutting. No wonder I don't like the feel of these keys as much. You notice they're lighter when picking them up. Not like I'd ever have seen a worn-through Cherry key but anyway...

[itlnstln]

1989 G80-1xxxHAD Esc: Back 1.73 mm, sides 1.53/1.58 mm, front 1.49 mm.
1993 G80-3000HAD Esc: Back 1.67 mm, sides 1.49 mm, front 1.44 mm.
1996 G80-3000LFADE Esc: All between 1.40 and 1.47 mm, with the sides again taking middle positions.
2004 G80-3456LQMDE Esc: Back 0.94 mm, sides 0.82 mm, front 0.75 mm. Darn cost-cutting. No wonder I don't like the feel of these keys as much. You notice they're lighter when picking them up. Not like I'd ever have seen a worn-through Cherry key but anyway...

Maybe I was right about the Cherry keys feeling lighter...

[watduzhkstand4]

I know it's user preference but I don't know how geekhackers can resist the blank look of those filcos. Even though the keys gets shiny quickly, it is still sick looking =D

[itlnstln]

I know it's user preference but I don't know how geekhackers can resist the blank look of those filcos.

I don't know about Filcos, but women sure can resist the blank look of my face.
 

Even though the keys gets shiny quickly, it is still slick looking =D

T,FTFY

[keyb_gr]

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It was late at night and I was rushing it.   Luckily I was gonna order some switches for DataCal so I'm only out an extra $1.20 and some soldering time.  Told you those Filco keycaps fit tight.  If you run across a sticky one don't yank, just keep rocking it off.

I'd think you could piece that one together again. Doesn't look like there is anything broken off or something. Visible debris should be removed though.

[timw4mail]

Yeah, you just ripped the plunger from the click slider...it should just click back together...

[antok86]

do they sell "lettered" keys for the filcos? im getting an otaku which is blank and would like some letter keys for the numbers and f keys

[timw4mail]

do they sell "lettered" keys for the filcos? im getting an otaku which is blank and would like some letter keys for the numbers and f keys

Not for the Filcos, it doesn't look like. But really, you can scrounge those off of any Cherry-keycap compatible keyboard.

[megarat]

I have two sets of lettered Filco keycaps that I'm willing to part with for merely the price of shipping.

The catch is they're for the Filco Zero XM (Alps), not Cherry.

[clickclack]

I have two sets of lettered Filco keycaps that I'm willing to part with for merely the price of shipping.

The catch is they're for the Filco Zero XM (Alps), not Cherry.

hmmm...
(my cogs are still meshing....)
hmmm....

[antok86]

The catch is they're for the Filco Zero XM (Alps), not Cherry.

doh'

[Hak Foo]

Wonder if they'd work on an AT101W, the default cheap Alps board?

[itlnstln]

Wonder if they'd work on an AT101W, the default cheap Alps board?

Yes.  It even looks like the modifier keys would fit, too.

[nanu]

Here's my anti-otaku effort, albeit using laser-etched keys from a Cherry, and its keypad's stems transplanted onto winkeys and the spacebar from a Gateway rubberdome.

The imperfection of the stabilizer arms is that the slots are too wide vertically, so it increases rattle with the wirebar, unless amply greased—I could probably graft more plastic, or redo them.

[nanu]

Those blues sound more jangly than I remember from other clips.

Overall I can't tell a difference, since I put foam donuts under each key still.  Speaking of sounds however, I've noticed that some of the Filco's brown switches resonate a middle-range pitch (more pronounced upon release).

I've adjusted to the lower-profile Cherry keys, and the higher Enter key doesn't bother me as much, now.  I must say, the bigger nubs on the Cherry keys feel good.

The spacebar feels fine at the moment, although I expect this mod to fail somehow.

[clickclack]

Hey ripster, thanks for the sound sample with the 3 different blue cherry set ups. I really need a blue cherry board! That was my weekly tease sound sample! haaahaa

[itlnstln]

The scooped F and J keys are a little weird.  If you use a Cherry 'board for an extended period of time, they become natural, but switching to a Cherry 'board from something else is a little odd.

[keyb_gr]

Interestingly, the scooped keys only reappeared fairly recently, after several years with conventional nubs (which started to be used around 1999 or so).

[timw4mail]

Nice triple-shift layout.

On the only keyboard I have that has double-shot keys (The Vtech), the keys are worn enough that the texture of the keys is gone, and they aren't fun to type with.

I'm thinking of swaping the keys from my Chicony onto the Vtech, as it would be a lot more fun to type with if the keys felt better than they do.

[itlnstln]

I wonder if a preference for shiny keys depends on the plastic.  Some, like lowpoly, like shiny keys as they feel it helps them stick to the keys better (like racing slicks on a car), but I wonder if that's true for all plastics.  I am currently seeing how long it takes to make POM caps shiny.  When that finally happens, I will see if they are as "grippy" as ABS.  Right now, with their texture intact, the POM keys on my Cherry feel like surface of a Teflon pan... literally.

[timw4mail]

I wonder if a preference for shiny keys depends on the plastic.  Some, like lowpoly, like shiny keys as they feel it helps them stick to the keys better (like racing slicks on a car), but I wonder if that's true for all plastics.  I am currently seeing how long it takes to make POM caps shiny.  When that finally happens, I will see if they are as "grippy" as ABS.  Right now, with their texture intact, the POM keys on my Cherry feel like surface of a Teflon pan... literally.

That slick?

[timw4mail]

Sounds about right.  That's what a Delrin guitar pick feels like.

I think the shiny keys would be an acquired taste but they are incredible sharp - the pictures don't do them justice.

The cost cutting measures of keyboard manufacturers are starting to piss me off.  In the volumes we are talking for some of these guys I wouldn't be surprised if dual shots cost them less than $5 a set.

Ironically enough, "Panic buttons" in general seem to be double-shot molded.

[ak_nala]

That is an awesome looking board.

Being an old typewriter fan, double shots are the only way to go.

[itlnstln]

That slick?

Yes.  It's not really a problem when I'm typing since I just press the key and move on (I'm not a big stickler for how grippy keycaps are), but if you were to fondle the keys (perv), you would notice how slick they really are.

[itlnstln]

That almost looks sanded, ripster.

[Hofy]

Damn you, Ripster!  
My wife says the Cherry KB with the double shot keys is at home waiting for me.  (I am stuck in Chicago until tomorrow.) (BTW got it from the same seller as you for $10.50)
Guess it doesnt matter as my Filco TenKeyless Brown Cherry wont be delivered until next week.

[elbowglue]

Woot.  I bought an 87 key filco otaku blue cherry from another member of geekhack, but I think I may mod it when it comes in to have printed letters too!  (I think I'll buy some nikon gear and some legos too so I can really be like ripster lol)

You guys think these keycaps would work?

G81-7000HPBUS-2

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Cherry-Keyboard-G81-7000HPBUS-2_W0QQitemZ260494351772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item3ca6ac5d9c

Thanks.  I've been bit buy the bug.  But not so badly that I think I need a topre yet

[itlnstln]

These will be fine.  The larger keys might not work, but the majority will.

[sixty]

US Layout and G81 is a whole different deal, but I made this earlier for some international deals (yes I am shipping double shot sets over to Korea now) and figured it might come in useful at some point, easy to see what fits and what does not. If we could get this for more models it would be nice.

[timw4mail]

That's interesting.  The POS keyboards have noncentered keystems for CTRL, ALT (idiotic Cherry engineers) so that's the only row I haven't been able to replace.  Also, I haven't seen doubleshot CTRL ALTs that would fit the spacing.

Not that they have double-shot keys, but the MX8100's have centered keycap stems on the control keys.

[sixty]

That's interesting.  The POS keyboards have noncentered keystems for CTRL, ALT (idiotic Cherry engineers) so that's the only row I haven't been able to replace.  Also, I haven't seen doubleshot CTRL ALTs that would fit the spacing.

What do you measure on those? - I get 23mm when I measure the base.  From the looks of it yours aren't Filco compatible. (Edit: I checked by putting two together and comparing with your pic for R-SHIFT and nope, not compatible).

What are you trading??  Get me some Red Cherry keyboards!

I will measure keys later, am too lazy now.

For now I am just trading keycaps, these are all from dead G80s that I have recycled. So I have like 7 sets of black/grey German doublshot keys left atm. My overall stock of G80-1000/3000s is in the high 50s now. I had picked up some bigger bulks recently and I am slowly cleaning and disassembling all. Everything that is dead gets the keys and switches harvested and then thrown out without mercy.

I originally planned to blog about the whole process but it ended up way more boring than I expected. I have another lot incoming soon which will have some hopefully more interesting boards (G80-9000 and  G80-2000 series).

[sixty]

I will be putting up a post here too once I'm done with the whole process. I dunno whether or not I should put up full boards too, shipping costs are likely to kill any appeal of a cheap and clean G80?

[itlnstln]

If you can get a G80-1800 with browns and a US layout, I would be very interested.  I don't care about color or keycap type (although, double-shot would be preferred).

[elbowglue]

Hmmm.. I've been reading this thread again now for the 3rd time, now I am appreciating the humor more

Now I understand:
All of the keys from the G81-7000HPBUS-2 work except the caps lock and the right shift key, caps lock dosen't fit, and right shift dosen't fit either.  So you took the right shift and put it on the capslock button.

Then you got the G81-8000HPBUS-2 which appears to have full size right shift key and used that to place onto your right side shift.

I suppose the Caps lock from the G81-7000HPBUS-2 dosen't fit on the filco board either eh?

And the whole bottom row (spacebar, ctrl, alt, windows key) are all original.

And the cherry keys are 2mm shorter than the filco keys, therefore if you left the old right shift key as filco, it would be ghetto.

Hm. That makes me rethink undergoing this whole process lol.  Would be easier to get a G80-3000LSCRC-2 and saw off the tenkey section of the fricken keyboard... although you wouldn't have the doubleshot keys then.

You think there is a big different between the plate mounted Filco vs the PCB mounted cherry boards?

Thanks ripster for your contributions, you the man:)

[itlnstln]

You think there is a big different between the plate mounted Filco vs the PCB mounted cherry boards?

I'm not ripster, but yes, there is.  I am not sure if ripster has any PCB-mounted MX 'boards.  The G81 series has MY switches.

[elbowglue]

I'm not ripster, but yes, there is.  I am not sure if ripster has any PCB-mounted MX 'boards.  The G81 series has MY switches.

And the difference is....?
I assume the plate mounted boards might make more sound and are harder to mod (you have to desolder switches) in comparison to PCB mounted boards you can pry the switch open, and maybe the sound is quieter?

There is flex on PCB mounted cherry boards (I can verify from my MX8100) but I'm not sure if it affects my typing at all? I can't tell.

[itlnstln]

And the difference is....?
I assume the plate mounted boards might make more sound and are harder to mod (you have to desolder switches) in comparison to PCB mounted boards you can pry the switch open, and maybe the sound is quieter?
 
There is flex on PCB mounted cherry boards (I can verify from my MX8100) but I'm not sure if it affects my typing at all? I can't tell.

I would tell you to search since I have written no less than 157 posts on this, but I'm not an a*shole so...
 
The PCB-mounted switches feel a little lighter in my opinion as well as more tactile.  The sound is much softer than plate-mounted 'boards.  PCB-mounted switches are easier to mod if you are too handy with a soldering iron.  There are some other, non-switch-related differences between Filcos and Cherrys, but as far as switch mounting goes, those are the main differences.
 
Tim4wmail also noticed some flex in his G81-8100, but I have zero flex in my 3000.  I guess the PCB size in the 8100 must allow you to get more leverage to flex the board.

[elbowglue]

Thanks for the info itlnstln and rip.  Dang by the way you describe it itlnstln, it seems that the g80-3000 is superior to the Filco 104key cherry blue.  And if you can find it at one of the POS sites in stock it could be much cheaper.

Sorry bout that not searching the forums first, I thought I had actually read every post on geekhack already, being a big time lurker already lol.

[itlnstln]

Thanks for the info itlnstln and rip. Dang by the way you describe it itlnstln, it seems that the g80-3000 is superior to the Filco 104key cherry blue. And if you can find it at one of the POS sites in stock it could be much cheaper.
 
Sorry bout that not searching the forums first, I thought I had actually read every post on geekhack already, being a big time lurker already lol.

No problem.  I do like the 3000 more than the Filco, personally.  Both my Filco and my Cherry have brown switches, though, so I couldn't tell you if the blues are any better on the 3000 than the Filco, but there are other members here that have both, and they might be able to tell you.

[sixty]

No problem.  I do like the 3000 more than the Filco, personally.  Both my Filco and my Cherry have brown switches, though, so I couldn't tell you if the blues are any better on the 3000 than the Filco, but there are other members here that have both, and they might be able to tell you.

Can only speak my experience here (and as ripster said - everyone has different favourites around here), but so far I liked all of the Cherry switches more when not plate mounted. The feeling somehow seems more smooth and i can tell a clear difference in sound too.

Also, we should really stop abusing ripster's mod as a chat here.

[pfink]

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Yaaaay - the R-SHIFT key is a 1:1 replacement.  Finally.  Now for the front row.  Whaaa.... A DOUBLE insult.  No double shot and offcenter posts.  What was Cherry Corp thinking.  Dumbkopfs.  Sheisskopfs.  Das ist nicht gut.

The front row keys on this Cherry MX8100 fit the Filco:




The Control and Alt keys are double-shot, the Windows keys aren't.

[cchan]

The front row keys on this Cherry MX8100 fit the Filco:

Show Image

The Control and Alt keys are double-shot, the Windows keys aren't.

and so does the capslock - the stem is centred on this board.

[keyb_gr]

Speaking of Caps Lock, it's not stepped either. This might fit my KB-5182 ā la Futaba, too.

[skcheng]

and so does the capslock - the stem is centred on this board.

Are the keys on this board (Cherry MX8100) double shot?   And if they aren't, do they match the height/look of the double shot keys on the G80 and G81 boards?

thanks,

skc

[sixty]

Are the keys on this board (Cherry MX8100) double shot?   And if they aren't, do they match the height/look of the double shot keys on the G80 and G81 boards?

thanks,

skc

They are doubleshot on the auction (and pictures) linked earlier in this topic. However, there are also lasered versions. Keep looking for the H** in the serial, which indicates double shot keys.

Talking of double shot keys... something very cool will be coming to geekhack soon. Maybe expect it at the end of this month. This is hint one! Stay tuned.