Author Topic: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (on hold see OP)  (Read 183489 times)

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Offline mashby

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #450 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 10:25:54 »
If this is being sold as a complete set, I'd be interested in buying someone's GeekHack keys.  :cool:

Offline tangkims

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #451 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 10:45:45 »
If this is being sold as a complete set, I'd be interested in buying someone's GeekHack keys.  :cool:

Set up a group buy for R2!

Offline nathanrosspowell

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #452 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 11:37:49 »
Show Image


This should be put in the OP, with the URL added (I amended it in the quote).

Regardless, sig repped!  :thumb:

Offline lishi

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #453 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:10:39 »
B.o.B. just released a song "Flatline", dissing Niel DeGrasse Tyson in which he talks about the world being flat:


https://soundcloud.com/bobatl/bob-flatline-feat-neil-tyson


Who would've thought falt-earth rappers would be promoting this keyset  ;D :p
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Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #454 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:12:29 »
I just got the most outrageous quote from SP earlier this morning. Basically there was a $50 increase per MOQ tier compared to every other SA set, which I cross checked with other GB leaders. This is what I was worried about. SP/PMK works directly with mito and profits off of pulse and they see this set as a threat to their business. Since they can't refuse to make the set it looks like they'll just charge us up the ass for it. I've emailed asking why there is such a dramatic price increase but at the current tiers this buy won't happen and I don't know what I can do. This isn't about whether people are willing to pay an absurd amount of money for an SA set because I'm not cool with that this is supposed to be affordable. But really this is stupid as hell


This is also me just being flustered and is just my opinion on what's going on, maybe I'm just being a conspiracy tard. SP claims they raised the prices in November so this could very well just be the new pricing.
« Last Edit: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:23:31 by Sifo »
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #455 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:17:19 »


SP be like oh you want an SA set...well ok then....

Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #456 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:19:44 »
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."

Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.
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Offline Dernubenfrieken

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #457 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:41:05 »
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."

Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.

Have you asked the organizer from troubled minds?
    

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #458 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:46:46 »
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."

Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.

They increased their prices by 50%?  Due to increased shot size?  I admit this is not my industry, but that doesn't add up.  The materials account for a very minimal portion of the charged price, so even a 100% increase in material price would only correspond to a minimal increase in finished product cost.

I should just stop agreeing to ship Group Buys, they all die before they even go to production.  :))


Also, a $50 increase in price basically prices out...well...every interested buyer.  Either they have no interest in running additional SA sets, or the community is just going to have to stop liking them.

Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #459 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:51:26 »
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."

Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.

They increased their prices by 50%?  Due to increased shot size?  I admit this is not my industry, but that doesn't add up.  The materials account for a very minimal portion of the charged price, so even a 100% increase in material price would only correspond to a minimal increase in finished product cost.

I should just stop agreeing to ship Group Buys, they all die before they even go to production.  :))


Also, a $50 increase in price basically prices out...well...every interested buyer.  Either they have no interest in running additional SA sets, or the community is just going to have to stop liking them.

Or they have no interest in producing this particular set. I'll ask camper about the troubled minds quote
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #460 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:53:59 »
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."

Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.

They increased their prices by 50%?  Due to increased shot size?  I admit this is not my industry, but that doesn't add up.  The materials account for a very minimal portion of the charged price, so even a 100% increase in material price would only correspond to a minimal increase in finished product cost.

I should just stop agreeing to ship Group Buys, they all die before they even go to production.  :))


Also, a $50 increase in price basically prices out...well...every interested buyer.  Either they have no interest in running additional SA sets, or the community is just going to have to stop liking them.

Or they have no interest in producing this particular set. I'll ask camper about the troubled minds quote

Well obviously.  :P  I'm just saying if they are in fact being honest.

And if they're not...that's really ****ty.  Basically lying to us.  I know that pricing like this is sketchy and all that, but damn.

Offline FLFisherman

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #461 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:59:05 »
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."

Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.

They increased their prices by 50%?  Due to increased shot size?  I admit this is not my industry, but that doesn't add up.  The materials account for a very minimal portion of the charged price, so even a 100% increase in material price would only correspond to a minimal increase in finished product cost.

I should just stop agreeing to ship Group Buys, they all die before they even go to production.  :))


Also, a $50 increase in price basically prices out...well...every interested buyer.  Either they have no interest in running additional SA sets, or the community is just going to have to stop liking them.

Or they have no interest in producing this particular set. I'll ask camper about the troubled minds quote

Well obviously.  :P  I'm just saying if they are in fact being honest.

And if they're not...that's really ****ty.  Basically lying to us.  I know that pricing like this is sketchy and all that, but damn.

I have no horse in this race, but I doubt SP/PMK are being dishonest with you. They are first and foremost a small company. I can't imagine that they would take "sides" or even really care about anything being discussed on these forums or reddit. There may be a very good reason as to why the price increased, or there may not.

The alternative is that a niche plastic-making company has a vendetta against some of their main clients and want to actively sabotage them. Possible, but not likely.

However, it will be interesting to see what future SA profile sets are priced at.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #462 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:01:05 »
Well, maybe it's just me, but I would buy this set if it were in DCS. People hate on DCS for no good reason, but I still like it.
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Offline FLFisherman

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #463 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:02:58 »
Well, maybe it's just me, but I would buy this set if it were in DCS. People hate on DCS for no good reason, but I still like it.

And I would buy it in DSA.  :D

Would prefer PBT though.

Offline zslane

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #464 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:09:18 »
There are a number of ways in which SP can manage competing keyset designs, especially when a design seeks to copy a previous one in some obvious fashion. They can simply reject the copycat design outright. In fact, I suspect that is exactly what most of this community expects them to do. Alternatively, they can accept the design but with a heavy premium.

The former action shuts down on such copycat designs completely. The latter gives these designs a chance, and the premium then serves dual purposes: to discourage interest (in the hopes of seeing the copycat die in IC), or to provide the financial means to compensate the original designer (in the case where enough people with too much money still agree to buy in).

All of this is merely a consequence of SP having control over how the "IP rights" of designers are honored, given the fact that there is no formal IP law that will step in and do it for them. It is also a consequence of SP being the only game in town for spherical keycaps. It could be worse: they could have decided to just get out of the custom keyset business all together, focusing exclusively on their large industrial contracts instead.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #465 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:10:25 »
Well, maybe it's just me, but I would buy this set if it were in DCS. People hate on DCS for no good reason, but I still like it.

And I would buy it in DSA.  :D

Would prefer PBT though.

DSA and PBT are both no-go for me. :(
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Offline FLFisherman

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #466 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:11:30 »
Well, maybe it's just me, but I would buy this set if it were in DCS. People hate on DCS for no good reason, but I still like it.

And I would buy it in DSA.  :D

Would prefer PBT though.

DSA and PBT are both no-go for me. :(

Sigh. Guess we're gonna fight now.

The point stands in that there are other options.  :D

Offline nubbinator

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #467 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:12:32 »
$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.

Offline Lepidus

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #468 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:14:11 »
1-Mail her about random color set
2-Get pricing quote
3-"Hey, I would like to change colors to BBJ and NN"
4-???
5-PROFIT

Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #469 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:14:41 »
$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.

Thats what I'm saying lol
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #470 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:18:16 »
$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.

Thats what I'm saying lol

With stuff like that, SP is really disenfranchising themselves from us.  Sad given how much the community has helped them and made it so that they actually have impacted production lines.

Offline zslane

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #471 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:18:51 »
From what I know of GMK keysets, their MOQ is so high that most proposed designs never see the light of day. That is unlikely to be a viable route for Flatline.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #472 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:20:26 »
250 MOQ with GMK.  Totally doable.

Offline Lepidus

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #473 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:20:37 »
From what I know of GMK keysets, their MOQ is so high that most proposed designs never see the light of day. That is unlikely to be a viable route for Flatline.

Not so much for non-custom colors tho.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #474 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:21:39 »
250 MOQ with GMK.  Totally doable.

I thought it was now 150?

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #475 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:23:53 »
Well obviously.  :P  I'm just saying if they are in fact being honest.

And if they're not...that's really ****ty.  Basically lying to us.  I know that pricing like this is sketchy and all that, but damn.

I have no horse in this race, but I doubt SP/PMK are being dishonest with you. They are first and foremost a small company. I can't imagine that they would take "sides" or even really care about anything being discussed on these forums or reddit. There may be a very good reason as to why the price increased, or there may not.

The alternative is that a niche plastic-making company has a vendetta against some of their main clients and want to actively sabotage them. Possible, but not likely.

However, it will be interesting to see what future SA profile sets are priced at.

To blatantly lie would be a shock, that's for sure.  That's what I was attempting to convey.

But pricing in manufacturing is always this weird mystery where you're never really supposed to know what the "market rate" is, and usually the larger operation holds the power.  I don't have the best grasp on that world, other than to know that it's far more complicated than I ever imagined.  So for them to be secretive and such is totally normal (although in this community that seems fruitless), but to lie would be a surprise (I don't think they have spoken a non-truth).  However, to be selective in their phrasing?  Only they can say.  ;)

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #476 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:24:43 »
250 MOQ with GMK.  Totally doable.

I thought it was now 150?

Would probably need a custom color for this though, I'd guess.  And IIRC, custom color MOQ is 250 now.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #477 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:25:46 »
250 MOQ with GMK.  Totally doable.

I thought it was now 150?

Would probably need a custom color for this though, I'd guess.  And IIRC, custom color MOQ is 250 now.

Oh yeah I wasn't thinking about custom colors.

Offline zslane

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #478 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:26:08 »
$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.

Thats what I'm saying lol

With stuff like that, SP is really disenfranchising themselves from us.  Sad given how much the community has helped them and made it so that they actually have impacted production lines.

I suspect SP has been trying to do that for years now. But the population of willing buyers continues to grow despite their best efforts to discourage interest. For every buyer who refuses to absorb a price increase of $50, there are ten others who won't blink at that. These keycaps are a niche luxury product that nobody really needs. Prices are going to continue to rise, probably every year. We might as well just get used to it.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #479 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:27:30 »
250 MOQ with GMK.  Totally doable.

I thought it was now 150?

Would probably need a custom color for this though, I'd guess.  And IIRC, custom color MOQ is 250 now.

UN5047 and NN would be pretty close.

Onto the MOQ though, did it really drop to 150 on standard colors?   I hadn't heard that.


$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.

Thats what I'm saying lol

With stuff like that, SP is really disenfranchising themselves from us.  Sad given how much the community has helped them and made it so that they actually have impacted production lines.

I suspect SP has been trying to do that for years now. But the population of willing buyers continues to grow despite their best efforts to discourage interest. For every buyer who refuses to absorb a price increase of $50, there are ten others who won't blink at that. These keycaps are a niche luxury product that nobody really needs. Prices are going to continue to rise, probably every year. We might as well just get used to it.

They need to understand they're not the only have in town.  Tai-Hao is only marginally worse than SP.  GMK is around, JTK is starting up, Gateron is growing, abd there a bunch of others expanding.  Raising their prices will only drive more alternatives.

So, in short, no, we shouldn't "just get used to it".
« Last Edit: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:31:43 by nubbinator »

Offline zslane

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #480 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:29:38 »
It is also worth noting that GMK doesn't do spherical. If the point of this exercise is to replace PuLSE, then Flatline must be SA. If not, then I think half the impetus for this GB goes out the window. As nice as the turquoise-and-black colorway is, this project is really riding on the burning desire to spite MiTo. I don't think a GMK set will have quite the same impact.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #481 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:31:56 »
this project is really riding on the burning desire to spite MiTo.

I think you're missing the point. It's not to spite MiTo at all. It's to make an improved version that we want.
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #482 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:32:39 »
I won't buy because it's SA.  I probably would with GMK.  Others are in the same boat as me.

Abd, like JD said, this is to meet what the community originally wanted, not what they got.

Offline nickheller

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #483 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:33:40 »
I would buy this colorway in DCS with cherry legends.

Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #484 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:34:30 »
this project is really riding on the burning desire to spite MiTo.

I think you're missing the point. It's not to spite MiTo at all. It's to make an improved version that we want.

Didn't it start as that, though?

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #485 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:35:49 »
* HoffmanMyster is in favor of this becoming a GMK set

Cherry profile is better anyway.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Offline Bucky

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #486 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:37:43 »
I am sure some people just wanted to spite MiTo, but honestly I just like the idea of a simple version of PuLSe (with colors that I think would be better too).

I would definitely consider GMK, would love to see renders of cherry profile with whatever colors are closest.

Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #487 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:38:30 »
I really do want it to be spherical. However I'm not really sure what to do right now. SP suggested splitting it up into kits but really that's only going to increase the price for everyone.

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Offline baldgye

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #488 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:41:25 »
I feel like a GB has to have a singular vision and purpose, soon as it breaks down into a design by comity I feel like the GB suffers massively and can make IC drag on endlessly and the interest die.

Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #489 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:41:32 »
I love the colorway. The blue is a bit too green for me, but I still want to jump on it. If this happens in any other profile/height I'm still down.

Offline Dernubenfrieken

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #490 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:51:18 »
I really do want it to be spherical. However I'm not really sure what to do right now. SP suggested splitting it up into kits but really that's only going to increase the price for everyone.

Everyone who doesn't use a standard layout TKL/60% maybe. But a lot of people don't need iso, numpad, row 2 escape keys, etc.
    

Offline zslane

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #491 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:52:32 »
Here's another consideration: the PuLSE colorway could get repeat production by MiTo himself, which could satisfy the SA fans. But this GB could be a win by providing the colorway for a family that never had it before (OEM/Cherry). If you think you can drum up enough orders, go GMK and fill a void.

How cost-effective is it to do novelty legends with GMK?

Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #492 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:56:27 »
I really do want it to be spherical. However I'm not really sure what to do right now. SP suggested splitting it up into kits but really that's only going to increase the price for everyone.

Everyone who doesn't use a standard layout TKL/60% maybe. But a lot of people don't need iso, numpad, row 2 escape keys, etc.

Yes I understand this.

I haven't worked with gmk before so that's foreign to me but I guess I'm forced to consider it at this point since it'll be cheaper lol.
I love Elzy

Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #493 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:57:29 »
Here's another consideration: the PuLSE colorway could get repeat production by MiTo himself, which could satisfy the SA fans. But this GB could be a win by providing the colorway for a family that never had it before (OEM/Cherry). If you think you can drum up enough orders, go GMK and fill a void.

How cost-effective is it to do novelty legends with GMK?

I'd be down for DCS or GMK.

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #494 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:59:36 »
I haven't worked with gmk before so that's foreign to me but I guess I'm forced to consider it at this point since it'll be cheaper lol.

Never thought I'd be reading this statement, hahaha.

Offline bloodl1n3

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #495 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:00:26 »
I love the colorway. The blue is a bit too green for me, but I still want to jump on it. If this happens in any other profile/height I'm still down.

I like the colorway too. I'd be down for any profile besides DSA. I actually like Cherry profile over SA, but either one works for me.

Offline baldgye

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #496 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:04:00 »
[IC]Triumph Adler At Night

Offline sherryton

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #497 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:04:36 »
SP wants that flatline bling

Offline Niomosy

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #498 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:05:38 »
I just got the most outrageous quote from SP earlier this morning. Basically there was a $50 increase per MOQ tier compared to every other SA set, which I cross checked with other GB leaders. This is what I was worried about. SP/PMK works directly with mito and profits off of pulse and they see this set as a threat to their business. Since they can't refuse to make the set it looks like they'll just charge us up the ass for it. I've emailed asking why there is such a dramatic price increase but at the current tiers this buy won't happen and I don't know what I can do. This isn't about whether people are willing to pay an absurd amount of money for an SA set because I'm not cool with that this is supposed to be affordable. But really this is stupid as hell


This is also me just being flustered and is just my opinion on what's going on, maybe I'm just being a conspiracy tard. SP claims they raised the prices in November so this could very well just be the new pricing.

This is going to be interesting as at least one or two other sets have just put in for pricing on SA sets.  I'm now very interested to see what pricing they come back with regarding this.

Offline xondat

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Re: [IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (renders posted)
« Reply #499 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:08:51 »
* HoffmanMyster is in favor of this becoming a GMK set

Cherry profile is better anyway.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

+1, doesn't need to be SA because SP are being *******s.