You need to find a 30g Topre, closest you will get.They really make one? Where do I get it from?
You need to find a 30g Topre, closest you will get.They really make one? Where do I get it from?
The only 30g Topre I ever saw was sold in Japan only with Japanese layout and Japanese legends and AFICT it wasn't even possible to buy it as they had gone out of business or something. (That one was not made by Topre Inc. but it used Topre switches).
You need to find a 30g Topre, closest you will get.They really make one? Where do I get it from?
The only 30g Topre I ever saw was sold in Japan only with Japanese layout and Japanese legends and AFICT it wasn't even possible to buy it as they had gone out of business or something. (That one was not made by Topre Inc. but it used Topre switches).
Does anyone know of any 30g (or less!) Rubberdome keyboards?______________________________________________________________
That don't have a giant amount of overhang?
That don't have a built in wrist-rest?
That are labeled in English?
With a USA layout?
That has all its keys?
I know someone out there must own a keyboard like this. You are probably hoarding them all to drive the price up. :))
I think someone (or a few people) on here have basically purchased 5-6 variably weighted Realforces and took the few 30g domes off those to make an all-30g RF.
The only 30g Topre I ever saw was sold in Japan only with Japanese layout and Japanese legends and AFICT it wasn't even possible to buy it as they had gone out of business or something. (That one was not made by Topre Inc. but it used Topre switches).HaaTa bought a realforce when he was in japan. I've typed on it. It's 30-g uniform japanese layout and was definitely made by topre.
You need to find a 30g Topre, closest you will get.
Thanks for the link! I almost jumped on this immediately but the amazon reviews are pretty dreadful. They complain about it being hard to press the keys down and that you have to press right in the center of the key. This makes me think they are using those really dreadful switches that should banished from desktop computers (I can't remember what the name of those sucky switches is but I didn't think anyone had used them since the 1980s).
It might exist, but I do not know of a 30g rubber dome. However...
This is rubber dome, I think, & they claim 20g actuation. I do not have one.
The "click for alternate view" is a better picture for seeing the layout.:
http://www.fentek-ind.com/split_magic.htm
Key Switches: Conductive elastomer rubber designed for 60 million cyclesWhich makes me think they are not rubberdome, not easy to type on and not easy to press.
Why rubber dome?
Tim Tyler modified mx switches to be 20cN by cutting down mx springs.
(1g is about the same as 1cN, so 20cN is about the same as 20g)
http://mykeyboard.co.uk/surgery/
PCB-mounted mx switches without LEDs are easy to open to get to the springs.
Getting down to 20g is easy, I've done it. Getting down to 30g is even easier.
TC> Shortening the spring would shorten my travel, right?Clipping the spring shouldn't decrease travel at all . The spring is in compression a little from the switch housing being closed. Clipping it should just move the line on the force diagram down.
The result of my experience: yes, feels like shorter travel to me.
________________________________________________________________TC> Shortening the spring would shorten my travel, right?Clipping the spring shouldn't decrease travel at all . The spring is in compression a little from the switch housing being closed. Clipping it should just move the line on the force diagram down.
The result of my experience: yes, feels like shorter travel to me.Show Image(http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/media/guide/graph-mx-black.jpg)
if you notice, the forrce curve starts out at 40g, even at the return it's still 20g at the end.
I would guess you can cut off up to 1mm of spring with no reduction in travel. If you plan to do this, I recommend some experimentation first of course.
Are you trying to reduce the impact stresses due to the impact of hitting the bottom of the key travelYes. Absolutely! *ouch*
If you are trying to reduce the harshness of the impact at the bottom of the key travelYep.
then you are actually going about this backwards.I am actually going cRaZy and am proceeding in many directions at once. I am running out of time.
My recommendation would be to get a cherry board with whatever style you prefer (linear, tactile, or clicky) and put springs from clears in them.I would love to try clear springs! I love the angle of their force graph!
The reason is because the springs in clears have a higher spring rate than Cherry's light and medium weight (thinking of blacks as medium). They hit actuation a touch lighter than blacks and bottom at a touch higher than blacks. I have found with personal typing to be the best thing for learning to not bottom out. Though I almost always bottom out unless I am focusing on it.What PCB mounted cherry-switch keyboard do you recommend?
Yes! You understand me!
TC> What I am really trying to do is "reduce the impact force of "bottoming out""
I also _must_ have a soft stop at the end of key travel, it's mandatory.
An O-ring (or 2) under the keycap is the usual method for mx switches.I have tried them all for you. I conducted extensive experiments.
There are a various degrees of softness available for O-rings.
I think there are sample packs available.
I think there are also soft landing pads available.
(If I ever get around to it, I will try them all.)
Right now I'm using small rubber bands.I have not tried that. Do you have a picture?
(Note about small rubber bands, pads, or O-rings... they all reduce travel.)Yep. But if the switch was taller then there would be more travel available.
You need to find a 30g Topre, closest you will get.
Nah, just get a Dell Quietkey.
Thank you for your suggestion. It is so cheap that I quickly ordered it. By next week I will know how stiff/soft they are.You need to find a 30g Topre, closest you will get.
Nah, just get a Dell Quietkey.
You need to find a 30g Topre, closest you will get.
Nah, just get a Dell Quietkey.
right...........i thought i saw they were close to 30g
You know those $5 keyboards...I own a lot of cheapo rubberdome keyboards that are all in the 55g+ range. However, one of them is an Acer keyboard and it is only 45g and it is soooooooooooo much less painful than my Topre TypeHeaven!
they're ~ 25-30g..
You know those $5 keyboards...I own a lot of cheapo rubberdome keyboards that are all in the 55g+ range. However, one of them is an Acer keyboard and it is only 45g and it is soooooooooooo much less painful than my Topre TypeHeaven!
they're ~ 25-30g..
That is what got me started on this 30g rubberdome kick. If my 45g rubberdome isn't half bad then a 30g might be fairly good. I would love to buy a 15g rubberdome but I didn't want to have an empty thread so I put 30g in the title.
I would really like to know where all these 25g rubberdomes are hiding.
Are you saying that if I bought 20 different $5.00 keyboards (that is only $100.00) that I could realistically expect 20% of those keyboards to be 25g? And that's all I have to do? Just take the "shotgun" approach to keyboard shopping?
Another thing I was thinking about doing was buying 100 of those $1.00 rubberdome keyboards from the Dollar Store and then start haxxing them up and try to turn them into 30g or 15g keyboards.
... What I am really trying to do is "reduce the impact force of "bottoming out""
...
Absolutely!... What I am really trying to do is "reduce the impact force of "bottoming out""
...
Then you need to try the trampoline mod: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.0
You can adjust the hardness / softness and travel by using different shapes and materials. If you want a really soft landing I would recommend a longish (say 2.5mm) thin (1mm) piece of soft silicon rubber (you can use thin oring material for this), so there is quite a lot of "squish" area available around it to compress into and it'll start to "press back" early (with a 2.5mm piece it will start to touch the slider right after actuation and then progressively increase the resistance for about 1.5mm until it fills the gap under the slider "pole").
You need to open the switch to do the mod,See, that is the big problem :'(
I find thick heavy keycaps work well with the mod to reduce bottoming out shock on the fingers.That is yet another complicated piece of the puzzle. I could buy some of those heavy metal keycaps. Someone had made some keycaps out of Zinc and possibly other materials. I almost bought them even though they were a ton of money but I didn't end up getting them because the space bar would not match the rest of the keys. (No way a Cherry Red Spring would hold up big heavy Zinc spacebar and the shift keys would sag down lower than the other keys too.)
Feels way better than any rubber dome board.All springloaded keyboards should feel way better than any rubber dome board.
These silicon balls work quite well, but they don't allow much squish area and thus feel quite similar to orings: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=88They are a kewl idea but they are too hard and small for me.
Another option is Cherry MY without springsWow! I will have to reread about those. I read about them years ago and the comments from random ppl said they were scratchy, fiddly, grindy and other things that scared me away. It doesn't seem all that easy to find Cherry MY keyboards with all they keys attached.
I recommend EliteKeyboards' soft-landing pads over o-rings though, because they're much softer (and mushy >_<).Yes I use them on all my Cherry Red keyboards. I am not a complete newb :))
Springless MY is like 25 cN, which makes it actually more difficult to prevent switches from accidental actuating in the resting position.When I rest my hands over the keyboard my fingers touch ever so lightly. Maybe 1cN. So light switches are absolutely not a problem for me.
I wonder how a 30g keyboard would feel in use?
Fedex just handed me a box.Thank you for your suggestion. It is so cheap that I quickly ordered it. By next week I will know how stiff/soft they are.You need to find a 30g Topre, closest you will get.
Nah, just get a Dell Quietkey.
Key Activation Force: The 'factory' actuation force varies widely, and can be as low as 25 grams or as high as 150 grams. Most membrane keyswitches are rated between 60 and 80 grams.Most of my rubberdomes are between 60 and 80g too.
___________________________________QuoteI recommend EliteKeyboards' soft-landing pads over o-rings though, because they're much softer (and mushy >_<).Yes I use them on all my Cherry Red keyboards. I am not a complete newb :))
You're using the black softest version, right?
Have you ever tried using _2_ of EliteKeyboards'
soft-landing pads under a single keycap?
Is there space enough for 2?
Is there space enough for 3?
Maybe there's an even softer version available somewhere, made of lower-density foam rubber.
(If there isn't, maybe there should be.)
Nah, just get a Dell Quietkey.
Or the 30g uniform realforce keyboards that have been mentioned already....Nah, just get a Dell Quietkey.^^ This, $15 shipped bruh.edit* looks like you picked one up and it's not near 30g.
Sounds like the closest thing that might interest you would be the RF 87U 30-45g variable..