geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: LaminarDesigns on Mon, 01 January 2024, 19:05:03
-
SPACEBAR UN****ER
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1107884899878318120/1110326625712738364/dual_tone_.png?ex=65a5ab40&is=65933640&hm=77db1a6a4332f2cd62b273616b1ad4b7b11e537a45239b4cfbdd1d0bc9a1df69&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=816&height=816)
I CANT READ MORE THAN 3 WORDS SUMMARY:
In a nutshell, this is just an over-engineered sous-vide device for spacebars. You load your spacebar (or any other keycap that is warped) in, tighten the screws so that the bottom sits flat against the metal and you put it into a water bath at 75-78 degrees Celsius. Then you just leave it there until it cools down to room temperature. You remove it and boom, straight spacebar ready for use.
IC FORM (https://forms.gle/pwrD56yRKouri4nR7)
INTRODUCTION
I started this as a joke with some friends from my server because we all had a lot of warped spacebars. People from my server as well as other places kept asking me to run it so well here I am, gathering interest to see if people are genuinely interested. This all happened about a year ago, but I had no funds nor time to run it. Now I have both. I reached out to Bowl and he was happy to help me sell this.
At the time I had seen people using 3D printer beds, dumbbells, books and many other thins to try fixing spacebars. The problem with those is that they are not very controllable and one small mistake can ruin the spacebars. With this, a kettle and a 5 dollar thermometer you can control things more accurately. In order to prevent mistakes when using it, I will use torque wrenches to figure out a way to instruct people on how much torque to apply to their screws.
Evidently, shift and enter keycaps have different heights due to being a different profile so the alignment and tadpole posts are removable and can be changed according to what keycap is being used to make sure proper tension is applied to the keycap. This is hard to show with photos so when we get prototypes we can illustrate how it works.
Why do I need this? Well you don't. You can achieve the same result by heating your keycaps with a blow-dryer and applying pressure but for those who are not comfortable yoloing things, I hope this will help.
Because we all love screw trays, I decided to make it so the top piece can be used like one. It has tadpoles that act as rubber feet. Refer to the below diagram for the features of this device.
TECHNICAL DRAWING
DIMENSIONS: 192.5x78 mm
NOTE: SURFACE IN CONTACT WITH TOP OF KEYCAP WILL BE POLISHED TO AVOID THE KEYCAP FROM BEING DAMAGED.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1107884899878318120/1191543494708297798/image.png?ex=65a5d25a&is=65935d5a&hm=d9964bf2066d9162a3c9a121507c8a1a05c5c7efdee384f5144f3639089b07fb&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1080&height=763)
To test this, like I mentioned in a reply below I just took a spacebar, put it between 2 aluminum plates and clamped it down. Then dunked it in water and it came out perfectly. This is doing the same as using a blow dryer its just more convenient and controllable/repeatable. I will post a video/photo album of the prototype working as soon as it arrives. Me and Bowl rush-ordered it today.
RENDERS
Me and bowl made some edits to the design, renders below. These changes were made to reduce the cost as much as possible. These changes have reduced the overall size by around 40%, so a sizeable reduction in cost is expected. We have also incorporated a one-size-fit-all design where any profile will work, and the whole unit can be packed and stored with the internal storage spaces for the spacers and screws, with the benefit of looking cute as hell. :thumb:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1107884899878318120/1193690884638773258/exploded.png?ex=65ada244&is=659b2d44&hm=4b5d61a85933e950fe63792c558c019ed070f610bc9e2823c65e94eb1c02982a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=815&height=816) (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1107884899878318120/1193690885678956544/spacebar_exploded_2.png?ex=65ada244&is=659b2d44&hm=dd1ff1760ba4285c0431dcd23ee607c5ace39c296170e8f3fc891163423dd987&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=815&height=816)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1107884899878318120/1193690886408785921/spacebar_closed.png?ex=65ada245&is=659b2d45&hm=b894d1f1f7683533a16cad177746beb5792b1e9dc49532983062ca1ba1d300aa&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=815&height=816) (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1107884899878318120/1193690887029526628/spacebar_bottom_storage.png?ex=65ada245&is=659b2d45&hm=0d46b339814282b21f188de7b1cb086f76f0313d8562a43b3b964cbc04fd6397&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=815&height=816)
And... because we know not everyone wants a screw tray there will be other top options as well. For example, we will also offer artisan tray tops or lube stations:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/998316562878578728/1193694943131213914/artisan_gunmetal.png?ex=65ada60c&is=659b310c&hm=aac43bb1dfb889b03dc680fb3eb21bc5c4069260bf0072aef7b76bdf48bcd9ed&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=815&height=816) (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1108175904754118656/1193702302020816977/lubbbe.png?ex=65adace6&is=659b37e6&hm=f5fe51c330c71fa5e10cab4e8aa80c9e1dd73b93d2bef9d0f7db0f7f91265bf8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=815&height=816)
FEATURES
The Spacebar Un****er will offer the following functions:
- Straighten Spacebars
- Can be used to tune wires
- Top half can be used as a screw tray
- Can be used to balance wires
SALE INFORMATION
- Small in-stock sale will happen at Bowl Keyboards: https://bowlkeyboards.com/ (https://bowlkeyboards.com/)
- if there is enough demand, after in-stock buyers use the product and feedback is received we will order more units with international vendors
- The target price is around 65-85 USD
- It will be made out of aluminum, raw with no anodizing
CONTACT
My Discord server: https://discord.gg/nWXrcdX8uN (https://discord.gg/nWXrcdX8uN)
Most updates will be posted on my server as well as Geekhack.
-
RESERVED
-
so does it work
-
so does it work
Yes it does. As a proof of concept, albeit cursed and crude I just took some aluminum plates and clamped the keycap between them and it worked as expected. Me and bowl ordered the actual prototype today. Should arrive relatively soon, we rush ordered it.
Forgot to add this to the post before, thanks for the reminder Hali <3
edit: forgot to add something
-
Finally!
Ive had I dunno, 10+ gmk sets an majority of them have warped sb's. Glad Ill be able to fix them easily now.
-
Targeted price point is way out of touch for what the product aims to fix. Even if someone has 10 keysets, the likelihood is maybe 2 or 3 spacebars from those are “dog****”. The price doesn’t make sense, albeit subjective.
-
Targeted price point is way out of touch for what the product aims to fix. Even if someone has 10 keysets, the likelihood is maybe 2 or 3 spacebars from those are “dog****”. The price doesn’t make sense, albeit subjective.
Nothing about this whole thing is sensical. It’s a pretty big chunk of metal, if we can cut down costs significantly we will, but it’s just expensive. It’s a very niche thing for people who a) don’t have a 3D printer, b) just like to support weird things like this or c) are perfectionists and want their spacebars to be perfectly straight with little risk compared to other methods.
Also, coming from a hobby where people pay $500 for a resin keycap a tool to fix a common issue with GMK costing 50-70 dollars isn’t that absurd.
-
Targeted price point is way out of touch for what the product aims to fix. Even if someone has 10 keysets, the likelihood is maybe 2 or 3 spacebars from those are “dog****”. The price doesn’t make sense, albeit subjective.
I mean it does say right there, "In a nutshell, this is just an over-engineered sous-vide device for spacebars." But yeah definitely a bit pricey.
As an exclusively PBT user, I'm down for one.
-
Targeted price point is way out of touch for what the product aims to fix. Even if someone has 10 keysets, the likelihood is maybe 2 or 3 spacebars from those are “dog****”. The price doesn’t make sense, albeit subjective.
I mean it does say right there, "In a nutshell, this is just an over-engineered sous-vide device for spacebars." But yeah definitely a bit pricey.
As an exclusively PBT user, I'm down for one.
I rather give a high estimate and achieve a lower price point than promise a cheap thing that isn’t just obtainable. Once me and Bowl get the prototype I will do some testing with PBT for you guys. Like I wrote up there I am making different spacers for different profiles so that they can be exchanged.
Thanks for the support!
My DCS deadbeats spacebars were criminally bad so it’ll be nice to be able to use them :p
-
It might be too late in the design phase but if you do a V2, I'd maybe try including some sort of flat MX insert and accounting for the added height in your spacer, because sometimes it's not just that the bar itself is warped but the stems can get messed up too which is why ticking sometimes still happens even after flattening a pbt cap. Doing it with inserts with a recessed area on the base piece will still let you use it for multiple sized keys and it shouldn't destroy the cap since the pressure is being applied evenly, at least I think.
-
Targeted price point is way out of touch for what the product aims to fix. Even if someone has 10 keysets, the likelihood is maybe 2 or 3 spacebars from those are “dog****”. The price doesn’t make sense, albeit subjective.
This is also why it’s a dual-function device :cool: because it can fix your spacebar and also can be used as a screw tray! The goal was to have something with a specific (and purposefully overthought) function, but also have it serve a purpose after you’ve straightened your bars instead of being tossed in the closet ;D
-
50+ gmk sets in, I crave this contraption
-
I was considering sous vide as a solution, but didn't know a good temperature for ABS. This is hilarious though. I might support you just because it's funny.
Also, this isn't a QC issue. This is an issue of ejecting them from the mold before they have cooled enough.
-
Muahahaha I will steal this puny design and make superior version 3000 and release tomorrow, gl losers :))
swiss army keyboard tool (tm)
[attachimg=1]
-
This design looks great
-
Got too many sets and too many warped spacebars. I'm in. For the price it better work for different profiles- KAT at least - though SA spacebars are usually straight.
-
get，your idea is so good
-
My spacebars do need some unf***ing
-
It might be too late in the design phase but if you do a V2, I'd maybe try including some sort of flat MX insert and accounting for the added height in your spacer, because sometimes it's not just that the bar itself is warped but the stems can get messed up too which is why ticking sometimes still happens even after flattening a pbt cap. Doing it with inserts with a recessed area on the base piece will still let you use it for multiple sized keys and it shouldn't destroy the cap since the pressure is being applied evenly, at least I think.
I had originally designed it this way, where I had a rail for the stems to ride on so you could fix different sized bars. The only issue with that idea was that keeping tolerances tight enough for the stems to stay perpendicular to the parallel plane of the device would be tricky, but I can come back to it and see it we can make it happen still!
-
Got too many sets and too many warped spacebars. I'm in. For the price it better work for different profiles- KAT at least - though SA spacebars are usually straight.
That’s the plan! The inserts that keep the two halves parallel will be removable and replaceable to account for different profile heights. Though to keep SKUs low we’ll likely stick to the 2-2 profiles that have screwed up spacebars most often.
-
Exactly what I wanted!!!!
-
Targeted price point is way out of touch for what the product aims to fix. Even if someone has 10 keysets, the likelihood is maybe 2 or 3 spacebars from those are “dog****”. The price doesn’t make sense, albeit subjective.
2 or 3 is optimistic
-
It might be too late in the design phase but if you do a V2, I'd maybe try including some sort of flat MX insert and accounting for the added height in your spacer, because sometimes it's not just that the bar itself is warped but the stems can get messed up too which is why ticking sometimes still happens even after flattening a pbt cap. Doing it with inserts with a recessed area on the base piece will still let you use it for multiple sized keys and it shouldn't destroy the cap since the pressure is being applied evenly, at least I think.
I had originally designed it this way, where I had a rail for the stems to ride on so you could fix different sized bars. The only issue with that idea was that keeping tolerances tight enough for the stems to stay perpendicular to the parallel plane of the device would be tricky, but I can come back to it and see it we can make it happen still!
sounds good, just what came to mind when I read over engineered :p
-
I was considering sous vide as a solution, but didn't know a good temperature for ABS. This is hilarious though. I might support you just because it's funny.
Also, this isn't a QC issue. This is an issue of ejecting them from the mold before they have cooled enough.
uh correct me if I'm wrong, but if they keep having a problem with a product due to the fact that they're the ones making a mistake by ejecting the spacebar before it can cool, is that not a quality control issue since the quality of the product isn't up to standard.
-
I was considering sous vide as a solution, but didn't know a good temperature for ABS. This is hilarious though. I might support you just because it's funny.
Also, this isn't a QC issue. This is an issue of ejecting them from the mold before they have cooled enough.
uh correct me if I'm wrong, but if they keep having a problem with a product due to the fact that they're the ones making a mistake by ejecting the spacebar before it can cool, is that not a quality control issue since the quality of the product isn't up to standard.
You are correct, it is a QC issue. Quality control means checking the actual manufactured product, quality assurance are the processes and systems that are put in place to ensure no issues occur. Quality control is reactive, meaning you look for mistakes and react if one is found but quality assurance is proactive; you take steps to avoid defects from happening in the first place.
But, if we are being specific QC is a subset of QA. Because one of those processes put in place to prevent defects is the quality check of the product at different stages of manufacturing. So this is both a QC and QA issue.
-
Targeted price point is way out of touch for what the product aims to fix. Even if someone has 10 keysets, the likelihood is maybe 2 or 3 spacebars from those are “dog****”. The price doesn’t make sense, albeit subjective.
As someone who owns somewhere around 50 keycap sets from various vendors I'm gonna tell you right now your maybe 2 to 3 spacebars being dog**** is very optimistic. Especially when it comes to PBT caps. If he can keep it to the lower end of the stated pricing this thing will sell like hotcakes.
-
it truely is over-engineerd, you could buy a aluminium bar and some velcro tape for 15 bucks.
-
it truely is over-engineerd, you could buy a aluminium bar and some velcro tape for 15 bucks.
do not even need to buy that, i use the case from wiha tool set
-
and y'all can buy a $50 keyboard that come with stock keycaps too... did we like, forget the spirit of this hobby or?
-
As someone who owns somewhere around 50 keycap sets from various vendors I'm gonna tell you right now your maybe 2 to 3 spacebars being dog**** is very optimistic. Especially when it comes to PBT caps. If he can keep it to the lower end of the stated pricing this thing will sell like hotcakes.
2 or 3 is optimistic
While it’s anecdotal, maybe I should’ve been more specific. I was primarily referring to GMK sets and speaking from my experience where I’ve had one spacebar that is unsatisfactory out of the 8-9 sets I’ve owned and the opinion was based on on that. I was giving the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it’s worse than I thought, but it seems like there’s demand for it, so good luck with the sales to the OP & Bowl! I hope this project is successful.
-
Was the keycap you used for your proof-of-concept a GMK spacebar? The temperatures you've mentioned seem a little low to reliably deform ABS, but then again ABS is weird and I could be wrong.
-
Was the keycap you used for your proof-of-concept a GMK spacebar? The temperatures you've mentioned seem a little low to reliably deform ABS, but then again ABS is weird and I could be wrong.
Yes it was a banana from a set I had. From what I have tested you can do higher temperatures but you run the risk of the part just failing catastrophically:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/18v9nos/nahhhhhh/?share_id=qkcGdFywWA-ceM10_aDQ7&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1 (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/18v9nos/nahhhhhh/?share_id=qkcGdFywWA-ceM10_aDQ7&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
So instead of using a higher temperature it is better to use a lower temperature for a longer period, and letting the part cool to room temperature slowly. Reason being is that you don't want the ABS (or PBT) plastic to become too soft. You want the deformation you are inducing to stay once the cap is removed from the press, and you don't need super high temperatures for that.
Another point I did want to highlight is that while you can use straps, rubber bands or just books to apply the pressure needed these methods can lead to too much pressure being applied to a small area. This will ruin the keycap. That is why using a press like this one is safer. You can MUCH more accurately tighten the screws to make sure the pressure is applied evenly; thus avoiding failures. When you combine that a hair dryer is not able to produce a consistent, repeatable temperature with the uneven pressure you get ruined keycaps.
However, once the prototype arrives and I can do proper testing I will of course make a guide for both ABS and PBT to avoid mistakes or damage to people's keycaps.
-
This is so outrageously absurd, I love it. However at this price point I doubt people are going to buy it for anything more than the novelty.
-
Added new renders showing changes to design. Quotes updated and price will be released soon.
Preview below:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/998316562878578728/1193693339820757022/gunmetal.png?ex=65ada48d&is=659b2f8d&hm=bbbb52361da6947923014ef4b09e2bf4048dcbd8ea6cc583c9cc8be6d7b6888a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=815&height=816) (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1107884899878318120/1193696000431378442/artisan_gunmetal.png?ex=65ada708&is=659b3208&hm=4b84fa27c6b0074c41527e364dede8f2191e0de036988bdf68b133ff1a94060c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=815&height=816)
-
I think this is rad in a fun way lol. I will def be down to try it.
-
Me definitely Like!
But Im wondering wouldnt constant water contact damage raw alu??
-
Me definitely Like!
But Im wondering wouldnt constant water contact damage raw alu??
Contrary to what others with zero knowledge have said, no. Aluminum forms a natural oxide layer when exposed to oxygen. This is why aluminum is used to make things like antennas or outdoor structures, it’s very resistant to corrosion. The only way for aluminum to corrode in a serious way is through galvanic corrosion which is why all of the parts of this thing are made out of aluminum.
Not only that, the duty cycle of this tool (aka the time it spends under water) is nowhere near long enough for it to cause issues with corrosion, even in steel. You’re supposed to dry it between use.
Hope that helps!
-
dope! literally rigged up some random alu pieces together this past weekend to do the same thing. wouldn't mind having something less janky :p
-
Prototypes are finished and they will be shipped to us in the coming days. Expect photos and videos very soon.
-
cool idea, but i don't think many people would cough up $70 for something they use twice. having said that, i'm writing this with a ****ed up spacebar :D glwic, hopefully you can bring the price down
-
cool idea, but i don't think many people would cough up $70 for something they use twice. having said that, i'm writing this with a ****ed up spacebar :D glwic, hopefully you can bring the price down
I don't think you realize that there are people with 40, 50 or 60 keycap sets they've collected over 4, 5 or even 10 years of being in this hobby and some of them are unusable because the spacebars are incredibly warped. When someone pays 100+ dollars for something I don't think buying a tool for $70 to fix all of those things that don't work is so out of the realm of possibility. Could you use a book and a hair dryer? Absolutely but some people value being able to do things in a repetitive and safe way that wont damage the keycap if they do it wrong.
Just my 2 cents on the whole "no one will pay for a tool to use it once or twice" thing.
-
cool idea, but i don't think many people would cough up $70 for something they use twice. having said that, i'm writing this with a ****ed up spacebar :D glwic, hopefully you can bring the price down
I feel like this has been discussed pretty thoroughly in this thread. This isn't really for people who will only use it twice, I don't get why thats hard to understand. Not everything needs to be for everyone, the thing functioning as a screw tray or artisan stand is enough of a compromise.
-
cool idea, but i don't think many people would cough up $70 for something they use twice. having said that, i'm writing this with a ****ed up spacebar :D glwic, hopefully you can bring the price down
I don't think you realize that there are people with 40, 50 or 60 keycap sets they've collected over 4, 5 or even 10 years of being in this hobby and some of them are unusable because the spacebars are incredibly warped. When someone pays 100+ dollars for something I don't think buying a tool for $70 to fix all of those things that don't work is so out of the realm of possibility. Could you use a book and a hair dryer? Absolutely but some people value being able to do things in a repetitive and safe way that wont damage the keycap if they do it wrong.
Just my 2 cents on the whole "no one will pay for a tool to use it once or twice" thing.
Ignore the naysayers, make it & they will buy! At least I will for sure! :thumb:
-
Having over 40 gmk sets , i kinda want this lol
-
I mean, if you could make a product that would 100% not mess up my space bar any more and possibly (like even 50% chance) make my space bars straight... I would 100% buy one. This comment feels like a math problem, and I apologize.
-
I mean, if you could make a product that would 100% not mess up my space bar any more and possibly (like even 50% chance) make my space bars straight... I would 100% buy one. This comment feels like a math problem, and I apologize.
fixing abs spacebar is an art form, need that perfect amount of heat and the perfect amount of correcting force
-
I mean, if you could make a product that would 100% not mess up my space bar any more and possibly (like even 50% chance) make my space bars straight... I would 100% buy one. This comment feels like a math problem, and I apologize.
fixing abs spacebar is an art form, need that perfect amount of heat and the perfect amount of correcting force
It’s not that complex with proper tools, which is where my idea to make this contraption came from. I used two chunks of alu and some clamps and it worked like a charm. This is a more refined version of that :p :p