Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic

[btctopre]

guys, yesterday i taboo-lated my keyboard hat transactions for 2015 and saw that i ate quite a bit in losses. so, knowing that, i've decided i just can't afford to sell at retail anymore




to just anyone. future aftermarket sales will no longer be first come, first serve, but instead potential buyers will undergo a thorough and rigorous background check (the details of which will remain classified), possibly even a cavity search (can't have anyone hiding fake clacks in their prison purse). bro willing, the end result will be my keycaps ultimately wind up in the hands of those worthy of them, and my financial sacrifices justified.

thank u for ur understanding. papa bless.

[FLFisherman]

guys, yesterday i taboo-lated my keyboard hat transactions for 2015 and saw that i ate quite a bit in losses. so, knowing that, i've decided i just can't afford to sell at retail anymore




to just anyone. future aftermarket sales will no longer be first come, first serve, but instead potential buyers will undergo a thorough and rigorous background check (the details of which will remain classified), possibly even a cavity search (can't have anyone hiding fake clacks in their prison purse). bro willing, the end result will be my keycaps ultimately wind up in the hands of those worthy of them, and my financial sacrifices justified.

thank u for ur understanding. papa bless.

PRESS F TO PAY RESPECT.

[Pdub]

So i think the point of the Thread has been missed. Overpaying for something is really up to the eye of the beholder.  My point is, do you really want to support the people gouging the market. If a make creates 5 caps and sells them at 100$. Then buyer buys them...and sells said cap for 200$ because you want it. Should you really pay him 180$ in profit, instead of waiting for another sale? It seems to be lost that Caps from only a year ago are hard to get. Imagine what you have today would be rarity wise next year. Then you could trade these common now caps for common in the past caps.

Think about it.

[demik]

Dafuq is wawa

[Fire Brand]

It seems to be lost that Caps from only a year ago are hard to get. Imagine what you have today would be rarity wise next year. Then you could trade these common now caps for common in the past caps.

Think about it.

Everything upto that part I got but you super lost me here man :X

[trizkut]

* Binge walks into the party late.  Gives all the hard partiers some coffee and Wawa pretzels, doesn't say anything, and flies away.

Mmm.. I haven't had a Wawa stuffed pretzel since 2007

[iamtootallforthis]

* Binge walks into the party late.  Gives all the hard partiers some coffee and Wawa pretzels, doesn't say anything, and flies away.

Mmm.. I haven't had a Wawa stuffed pretzel since 2007

Come visit me when I'm home from school and we can get all the Wawa stuffed pretzels you need.

[Binge]

For the best pretzels, you gotta go to a german beer garden. No question.

Forget the pretzels.   Rather drink beer and eat bratwurst!!   

www.pilsenerhaus.com

Why not just eat the bratwurst and pretzels and drink the beer?

you might be overpaying at that point

Well I'm a big guy. I need a lot of food.

ftfy

So i think the point of the Thread has been missed. Overpaying for something is really up to the eye of the beholder.  My point is, do you really want to support the people gouging the market. If a make creates 5 caps and sells them at 100$. Then buyer buys them...and sells said cap for 200$ because you want it. Should you really pay him 180$ in profit, instead of waiting for another sale? It seems to be lost that Caps from only a year ago are hard to get. Imagine what you have today would be rarity wise next year. Then you could trade these common now caps for common in the past caps.

Think about it.

I wanted to write a whole preachy thing about supporting the artisans instead of the people who buy their caps... but I'm getting really tired.  I had steam blow out of my ears during the beginning of my week and it just exhausted me.  This exists in the fine art and music world.  The artist generally gets shafted because someone uses owned art for profit and does crummy stuff like licensing etc to control it.  My sister talks pretty often about galleries asking over 65% of the proceeds from artwork sold off of their walls with no guarantee that the artwork will sell or that they even have a good client base.  I understand galleries are hard to maintain and expensive, but shafting the artists that hard is pretty gnarly because the customer then pays dearly for everyone trying to get a cut.

It's flawed in an objective way, but I do believe in free market and I love people who want to work for profit.  It's like the whole thing is a gray area.  If someone holds onto a keycap of mine for 10 years and then puts it up for auction because (reasons) and they get $10,000 USD... that's a lot different than someone buying a key for $50 and a week later getting $10,000 USD.  That keycap lover held onto something for 10 years, kept it in good condition, and that object only grew in value showing the actual value of the artist and of their fanbase.  That's a labor in itself imo not to get something lost or damaged.

This is why I have standards about keycaps I let out, what I call a B-stock, and why duds don't go to people as finished products.  There has to be standards that artists and fans hold to the artwork or they can be swindled by artisans or the aftermarket.  #plssanity

[HoffmanMyster]

Bratwurst, pretzels, and beer? Now we're talking.

[xJudas]

When you're new to the community and don't understand the drama yet.

[iamtootallforthis]

Bratwurst, pretzels, and beer? Now we're talking.

Come visit!

[bcredbottle]

I do like this idea of a snack exchange.

[Dernubenfrieken]

For the best pretzels, you gotta go to a german beer garden. No question.

Forget the pretzels.   Rather drink beer and eat bratwurst!!   

www.pilsenerhaus.com

That's actually the beer garden I was referring to in my head, I went to school in Hoboken. The mustard cheese dip that comes with the pretzels is amazing!

[tronbeaver]

So i think the point of the Thread has been missed. Overpaying for something is really up to the eye of the beholder.  My point is, do you really want to support the people gouging the market. If a make creates 5 caps and sells them at 100$. Then buyer buys them...and sells said cap for 200$ because you want it. Should you really pay him 180$ in profit, instead of waiting for another sale? It seems to be lost that Caps from only a year ago are hard to get. Imagine what you have today would be rarity wise next year. Then you could trade these common now caps for common in the past caps.

Think about it.

When is ClickClack EVER going to do another sale?  YOu may be waiting a long time.

[DAVYtm]

https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/45fuyu/usca_h_boopers_w_paypal/

Here's a fun example of the issue.

[Kudos]

The only thing that bothers me are the Johnnies out there joining every single raffle they can to hoard the crap out of the maker just to gather stupid trade value. But it's partially fault of the makers, since they allow it to happen in the first place. KeyKollectiv, for example, who the hell needs 5 Koala keycaps? Why not limit to one or two per person? 9 out of 10 times people will make an entry with the Koala they want and 4 other good ones just to trade. Do you wanna know why? I'm gonna tell you why:

[H] 5 Kill-Wallas, 3 Snackeys [W] Any BBV2

"I don't like them as much as I thought I would, so I'm trading now."

Yeah sure, two days after the actual sale. And the price of that? 4 people somewhere around the world disappointed that they couldn't get a single useful Koala, because the ****head Johhny hoarded the one he wanted and 4 useless extras. And the worst part is that Johnny did that for absolutely nothing since nobody is gonna trade a Bro for a load of KK's. Another sad thing is that instead of making 5 people happy, KeyKollectiv decided to make a single one, since they allowed people to hoard in the first place. I'm using KK as an example, this is happening with every maker out there. Read again: I am using KeyKollectiv as an example.

I'm not salty (I won the only one I entried for and gave it to another member, Sunshine MX) it was an example and such situation is also affecting other makers. This is not my problem anyway, makers should create whatever rules they want. If they feel like 5 per person is the ideal rule, I'm absolutely no one to say otherwise. Makers should start their raffles in whatever way they want, but I'm pointing out an issue with the model currently being used by some of them.

It's even worse with Bro Caps. Absolutely everyone will join any single sale he makes, even though they doesn't even remotely want a certain cap. I'm pretty sure that many people joined the TR8-0R Sale just to snipe the keycap and trade it afterwards. I'm absolutely sure that many people dislike the design but joined anyway just to have something made by Bro, which has relevant value in the trade market.

About buying and selling artisans at a huge price, I don't see any problem with it. This is basic supply and demand in full action. Most people just happen to want nice robots, astronauts and skulls, they don't want to spend hours and hours on the Internet as if they were on a quest for the holy grail. You gotta face the reality. The community grew, and some people don't give a damn about "supporting the maker" or "the community members". They are just costumers looking for a cool product. It's a very disappointing reality that absolutely nobody has the power to change. If you enjoying selling and buying at retail and 1:1 trading, that's okay, I do too, but don't condemn people who buy and sell at high prices, because again, that's just supply and demand in full force and most people don't want to engage on a mission for a cube of plastic.

Man...

I really didn't want to get involved but if you're going to call KeyKollectiv out... It brings me no joy whatsoever when someone posts our stuff up on the aftermarket right after they receive it. In fact, it downright sucks. I'm not unaware that there are plenty of people who buy up KeyKollectiv stuff as trade fodder. Then again, I know of plenty of people who are fans and hold onto each keycap. The bottom line is, there is absolutely no way for me to vet these people. Frankly, its a colossal waste of time to evaluate each buyer so the only thing we can do is to keep an active list. I can tell you that there is at least a dozen people who will likely never win a raffle from us again. Furthermore, there were only a handful of people who received more than 3 caps(all of which are close friends or had made prior arrangements). In fact, the average order was 2-3 Key-Walas. Why 2-3? Because paying $13 to ship a $25 is a bit ridiculous so we try to make it worthwhile.

If you haven't already, you can read our entry in our blog here about our stance on distribution: http://keykollectiv.com/2016/01/08/in-all-fairness/

Lastly, you've been an outspoken proponent of fair distribution among artisans but I've yet to see you provide any viable solutions to the problem. I think it's very easy for someone, who's experiences are limited to a factory that can produce in mass and encourage buys to meet MoQs, to make sweeping generalizations and uninformed criticism about how artisans run their sales.

[MiTo]

I understand there's nothing you can do Kudos, no need to explain yourself. I said multiple times very clearly that your system was just an example, wasn't enough? Just keep doing your thing, perhaps limit the sale for even less than 3 per person, I don't know mate it's your sale and you should run it whatever the way you want. I'm not here to tell you what to do, being respectfully honest with you. Looking forward to the stars!

[riotonthebay]

I understand there's nothing you can do Kudos, no need to explain yourself. I said multiple times very clearly that your system was just an example, wasn't enough? Just keep doing your thing, perhaps limit the sale for even less than 3 per person, I don't know mate it's your sale and you should run it whatever the way you want. I'm not here to tell you what to do, being respectfully honest with you. Looking forward to the stars!

Did you literally not read his post? He even gave a reason for 3 per person.

"Respectful"

Another sad thing is that instead of making 5 people happy, KeyKollectiv decided to make a single one, since they allowed people to hoard in the first place.

You are so lost in your own head, dude.

[MiTo]

Did you literally not read his post? He even gave a reason for 3 per person.

"Respectful"

Another sad thing is that instead of making 5 people happy, KeyKollectiv decided to make a single one, since they allowed people to hoard in the first place.

You are so lost in your own head, dude.

So what? I'm not asking for reasons nor answers buddy, the guy run the sale whatever the way he wanna run. This is not my problem as I'm not an artisan maker, I have absolutely nothing to do with it and simply voiced my opinion towards the subject. I used his name/brand as an example, am I really repeating that I used his name as an EXAMPLE for the fifth time? Do you want me to repeat? IT WAS AN EXAMPLE.

[MiTo]

Not even the makers are being capable from stopping flippers, I don't have the solution to this "issue". It's just sad, but as I said previously, this is supply and demand in full action. If a "rare" item exists and people want it very badly, they will pay whatever amount of money for it.

[Diokhan]

Yeah it's anoying..
I'm trying to get my hands on a topre plumkin.. 
And there is this one guy that just has it for trade/sale..
Asking 100+ dollar for it.

But yeah.. 
There are a lot of other people that will give theirs away or sell it at retail. 
So that isn't too bad either I think.

[Photekq]

I'm a big guy

[Michael]

Classic MiTo. ****s on people, apologizes (in his own condescending way), then ****s on them again.

[Bromono]

For the record.

I would do some naughty stuff for a 1st edition charizard card.

That is all.   

[romevi]

For the record.

I would do some naughty stuff for a 1st edition charizard card.

That is all.

Meh. It's the same card as the non-first edition, which I have. Those little 1st-edition stamps always bothered me anyway.

'Cept on my Machamp.

[MiTo]

Classic MiTo. ****s on people, apologizes (in his own condescending way), then ****s on them again.

Kudos and Koala, I'm fairly sure that you understood that I used your sale model merely as an example to demonstrate the current situation of raffling and post-sale prices market. I literally said it was an example almost ten times. Don't let this individual twist what I said. Again, I bid you and Koala good luck moving forward to the star sale!

[Pdub]

Classic MiTo. ****s on people, apologizes (in his own condescending way), then ****s on them again.

I read this and almost burst out laughing in the middle of a meeting.

 

[FLFisherman]

For the record.

I would do some naughty stuff for a 1st edition charizard card.

That is all.

Meh. It's the same card as the non-first edition, which I have. Those little 1st-edition stamps always bothered me anyway.

'Cept on my Machamp.

I still have mine in my little Pokemon card display book. Finished that whole first series. My mom said it would be worth a lot someday. I think the Charizard goes for $10? XD

[romevi]

For the record.

I would do some naughty stuff for a 1st edition charizard card.

That is all.

Meh. It's the same card as the non-first edition, which I have. Those little 1st-edition stamps always bothered me anyway.

'Cept on my Machamp.

I still have mine in my little Pokemon card display book. Finished that whole first series. My mom said it would be worth a lot someday. I think the Charizard goes for $10? XD

I have the full base and Jungle sets. Pretty sure the binder and pages I store them in are worth more than all the cards.

That said, 1st-edition Charizard still fetches a pretty penny; just not as much back in the heyday.

[Bromono]

For the record.

I would do some naughty stuff for a 1st edition charizard card.

That is all.

Meh. It's the same card as the non-first edition, which I have. Those little 1st-edition stamps always bothered me anyway.

'Cept on my Machamp.

I still remember opening that first starter deck and getting machamp...

[Michael]

Don't let this individual twist what I said.

Nobody needs to twist what you say. You do a fair enough job of that on your own.

[hashbaz]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

[MiTo]

I never had a whole deck of the Pokemon card game, but I had an Arcanine card when I was a kid and it was pretty cool. Too bad I was caught in a storm with it on my pocket and if I remember well the rain partially dissolved the card. RIP Arcanine, the drawing on the card was pretty nice.

[Michael]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

I need a jiggly puff.

[Halverson]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

I need a jiggly puff.

[demik]

Classic MiTo. ****s on people, apologizes (in his own condescending way), then ****s on them again.

It's hilarious how much he flip flops.

[Michael]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

I need a jiggly puff.

Show Image

[whmeltonjr]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

[Bromono]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Uhhh o.o

Ill trade joo some artisans

[romevi]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Original as in first-edition?

Breh.


PS
That Ancient Mew card was the hot peas. Worthless and useless, but still doper than most cards.

[whmeltonjr]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Uhhh o.o

Ill trade joo some artisans

I only trade for holographic, first edition artisans.

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Original as in first-edition?

Breh.

At least one of them is.

[Bromono]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Original as in first-edition?

Breh.


PS
That Ancient Mew card was the hot peas. Worthless and useless, but still doper than most cards.

(Attachment Link)

Got a ton of those

Breh

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pokemon-Shadowless-1st-Edition-Charizard-Base-Set-4-102-PSA-Gem-Mint-10-/161832096634?hash=item25adf1d37a:g:KmkAAOSwu4BV47ho

[FLFisherman]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Original as in first-edition?

Breh.


PS
That Ancient Mew card was the hot peas. Worthless and useless, but still doper than most cards.

(Attachment Link)

I loved this card. Man, I need to go through my collection when I get home.

[demik]

STAY ON TOPIC BEFORE BYKER OR EXIT COMES CRYING AND LOCKING PLS

[whmeltonjr]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Original as in first-edition?

Breh.


PS
That Ancient Mew card was the hot peas. Worthless and useless, but still doper than most cards.

(Attachment Link)

Got a ton of those

Breh

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pokemon-Shadowless-1st-Edition-Charizard-Base-Set-4-102-PSA-Gem-Mint-10-/161832096634?hash=item25adf1d37a:g:KmkAAOSwu4BV47ho

Oh. TIL I'm rich.

[romevi]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Original as in first-edition?

Breh.


PS
That Ancient Mew card was the hot peas. Worthless and useless, but still doper than most cards.

(Attachment Link)

Got a ton of those

Breh

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pokemon-Shadowless-1st-Edition-Charizard-Base-Set-4-102-PSA-Gem-Mint-10-/161832096634?hash=item25adf1d37a:g:KmkAAOSwu4BV47ho

lol Holy wow, totally forgot about the term "shadowless."  )

[FLFisherman]

Thread idea: Overpaying for vintage Pokemon cards (though not as much as in the heydey)- The Taboo Topic

Is that a thing? I still have like 4 of the original Charizard cards. I think I have all my cards in fact. Time to go sell on reddit for huge profit.

Original as in first-edition?

Breh.


PS
That Ancient Mew card was the hot peas. Worthless and useless, but still doper than most cards.

(Attachment Link)

Got a ton of those

Breh

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pokemon-Shadowless-1st-Edition-Charizard-Base-Set-4-102-PSA-Gem-Mint-10-/161832096634?hash=item25adf1d37a:g:KmkAAOSwu4BV47ho

lol Holy wow, totally forgot about the term "shadowless."  )

I've not even heard of it. We should make this topic "overpaying for collectors' items."

[MiTo]

Original as in first-edition?

Breh.


PS
That Ancient Mew card was the hot peas. Worthless and useless, but still doper than most cards.

(Attachment Link)

This is not a Pokemon card, this is an Illuminati card.

Who watches the one who watches?

[Vittra]

For the record.

I would do some naughty stuff for a 1st edition charizard card.

That is all.

Meh. It's the same card as the non-first edition, which I have. Those little 1st-edition stamps always bothered me anyway.

'Cept on my Machamp.

I still remember opening that first starter deck and getting machamp...

(Attachment Link)

you saw it and went full vanu sovereignty?

[Kudos]

Classic MiTo. ****s on people, apologizes (in his own condescending way), then ****s on them again.

Kudos and Koala, I'm fairly sure that you understood that I used your sale model merely as an example to demonstrate the current situation of raffling and post-sale prices market. I literally said it was an example almost ten times. Don't let this individual twist what I said. Again, I bid you and Koala good luck moving forward to the star sale!

I don't take it personally. I think it's really easy to come up with assumptions when you're viewing things from a consumer stand point. The truth of the matter, KeyKollectiv could keep cranking out Key-walas until everyone got one but we're not factories, we're people. I'm sure Bro, as much as he loves v2, wants to progress/express himself as an artist and pursue other designs. You, yourself, would resent people if all they asked for was PuLSe and shat on all your new designs.

The truth of the matter is, for us at least, artisan keycaps are just another medium we use to express ourselves artistically. To expect a person to keep doing what sells is how artists stagnate and grow to resent their work. There is no agenda, no raffle fixing, no conspiracy to game the after-market. We're just people who want to put out what we want, when we want, on our terms. Take it or leave it.