Kinesis Advantage/Smartfish

[cypherslock]

What do you guys think? After looking at the advantage, I can certainly its its good points. The brochure diagram helped too. Still trying to make up my mind and could use some expert opinions. Has anyone USED the Smartfish keyboard. They go out of stock quickly, so to my mind they must be good. and they're still in the realm of acceptability for price.

But, the advantage looks like it might be more comfortable. Again I've got Dragon and this is a factor as well. Help please if you can.

[Forsaken]

The smartfish probably sells more for it's sleek looks and novelty than performance. It looks to me like a MS Natural 4000 with scissor switches (like a good laptop), and about an inch of random movement thrown in.

It's a really nice looking board, but I don't think it offers more in the ergonomics department than an MS Natural 4k. It might be better made than the 4k though.

I would go with the Advantage. I have one and really like it. A Maltron with brown switches and a trackball is my dream keyboard though, but $$$$. XD

[bluecar5556]

A left hand maltron would be a nice addition to the advantage for having a tablet pen/mouse in the right hand without reaching over with the left.  If only someone would send me a mould of one, i'd duplicate it and mail it to anyone who wanted to make their own.  I'll just keep dreaming

[sordna]

Hmm, old thread revival. Anyway, a keyboard doesn't get much more comfortable than this:

[video=youtube;0hE62iqWCyw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hE62iqWCyw[/video]

[jpc]

Love my two Kineses. They helped to heal my RSI. (Those, plus Colemak, trackballs, keyboard trays, books, lots of NSAIDs...)

[sordna]

I find the red switches on the LF model make them even better, the action becomes much smoother on the hands.

[Input Nirvana]

A left hand maltron would be a nice addition to the advantage for having a tablet pen/mouse in the right hand without reaching over with the left.  If only someone would send me a mould of one, i'd duplicate it and mail it to anyone who wanted to make their own.  I'll just keep dreaming

I'm making a note...if I come across something, maybe we can make it happen. I'm still interested in the Kinesis molds we talked about a few months ago.

[hoggy]

Haven't tried the smartfish, but I doubt it will compete with the advantage.  I've customised my workspace quite a bit, and the kinesis was probably the most cost effective change I've made.

The smartfish does go out of stock often, If you get one and don't like it, I think you'll be able to sell it on easily.  

If you're looking at these keyboards, you might as well consider changing your mouse as well.

[bluecar5556]

How about this?  If you have two KPD-8923's you would be willing to part with, I can see what I can do.  Perhaps we can collaborate on a design we can both agree on so I can send you pics when i'm finished with mine and make an identical copy?

[bluecar5556]

I'm making a note...if I come across something, maybe we can make it happen. I'm still interested in the Kinesis molds we talked about a few months ago.

I'm still interested in the TP-IV's we talked about a few months ago, if you have two of them you want to part with, that would certainly get the ball rolling as I currently have the time and funds to cover the material costs.  Perhaps we can collaborate on a design we can both agree on so you can see images when i'm finished with my molds. Then make an identical copy if you like what you see?
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[sordna]

I'm really on the fence between the Kinesis and the Typematrix.  The former may be of higher quality but the latter has both Dvorak and Colemak support built-in.

It's ridiculously easy to remap the Kinesis to Colemak. In fact, because it has 2 layers, you can go back and forth between any 2 layouts with the push of a button, and the settings will stick even if you unplug it and move it to another computer.

[sordna]

You can rearrange keys, but like most keyboards, different rows have keycaps with different profiles, so some swaps will work great, some will end you up with a key sitting slightly higher/lower or having their top at a different angle than other keys on that row. However, the Kinesis is so predictable, once you learn the layout you won't care about the key legends. I use Dvorak on Kinesis boards with plain QWERTY caps. You could use stickers until you learn the layout, if seeing the keys helps you.

[sordna]

let me rephrase my statement.  can i buy blank cherry keycaps for a 104 count board and not have any issues with gaps, etc?

It should work but not 100% sure. It would be worth shooting an email to kinesis' tech support about it, and about colemak in general.

you said that the kinesis has 2 layers.  is that above the built in qwerty/dvorak? or are the 2 layers include those?

The 2 layers are on top of qwerty/dvorak. Typically you go with the layout you prefer, and then the 2 layers are available to you for straight use. The 2nd layer will have the same layout you have chosen, with some of the keys working as a numpad. You switch between the 2 layers with a button on the keyboard, or with a footswitch. You can remap keys freely on any of the 2 layers, so you can make either, or both, be colemak.

btw is the "L" key giving your hands any grief in dvorak?

Not by itself, but typing "ls -l" is a bit of pain, so I use aliases such as "la" in my linux boxes.

[Input Nirvana]

Go Kinesis if you're going ergo. It's a different animal.

 
Does not seem to be a problem with regular (non-Kinesis Contoured keys. The Kinesis is a natural device to learn touch typing a new layout. Much faster/easier.

[MarkWilliamson]

Forsaken already mentioned Maltron keyboards but they are worth bearing in mind - they were doing the contoured style before Kinesis and they have an alternative layout in addition.  I'm actually typing this on one, although it's a bit of a ropey old one.  They don't have anywhere near the stylish looks or general commercial finish that a Kinesis has but people who are used to them seem to swear by their design.  From new they are expensive although the cheaper Ergomatic board (same layout and similar board) is also around; I've not tried one of those though.

Just near them in mind, is all.

[sordna]

Looks like Kinesis gave you the quick/easy answer about keycaps. The more detailed answer is that the letter/number keycaps will fit, but keys such as usual ctrl/alt/shift from most other keyboards will not fit.

I just pulled 6,Y,H,N from my KBC poker and put them on my Kinesis and they fit just fine, see photo (sorry about the cell phone camera quality). Not only that, the Kinesis caps I took out fit the KBC Poker fine too!
To sum up, it shouldn't be an issue to change keycaps for the letter and number keys on a Kinesis contoured keyboard.
I would say go for it!

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[Input Nirvana]

Kinesis sales told me I could not use third party keycaps on it.  Also, they have no interest in supporting Colemak.  Kind of sucks but I can see why if you can program the layout in.

As soon as they put in Colemak someone else will be screaming "why can't you support here?"

The keycap issue though baffles me because I've seen pictures online of several "pimped" Kinesis boards so at least some types of key caps work.

If you note the pic I posted above, the other standard keycaps work, but you might not have quite as much of an ergo feel.

As far as supporting Colemak, I can't see why that's needed, you either remap the keys in the keyboard, or use the Colemak layout in your OS. (There's a Colemak file available on Colemaks website).