Author Topic: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard  (Read 46991 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sygaldry

  • Edema Ruh
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1261
  • Location: Chicago
  • All the truth in the world is held in stories.
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 19 January 2015, 22:55:38 »
I've got a few newbie questions:

1. Will this require any complex wiring or is it just solder on switches and program?
2. How does one program the board, is there some software interface available somewhere?
3. Is it compatible with 60% plates or is it intended to be built PCB-only?
4. Anything else needed?
Looks like it would need SMD components, controller, resistors, diodes all soldered in before soldering on the switches and LEDs.
OP says 100% through hole not smd.
Ah, woops. This appeals to me even more now then!
null

Offline Geroximo

  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Germany
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 06:42:23 »
1. Solder diodes. Solder Teensy to PCB. [...] Solder switches.
2. Since it is pin compatible with the JD45, adding support to his Easy AVR key mapper should be trivial for metalliqaz to do. That would be the easiest way to create your firmware. Use PJRC's Teensy Loader software to flash it to the Teensy.
3. Should be compatible with most 60% plates out there.

I can do that ... Count me in for one. :)

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 09:04:17 »
Quick update this morning; I'll try to answer all questions later.

Once again, jdcarpe is correct.  All through-hole on 0.100" centers (easy to solder!) and a Teensy under the |\ key.  Also a 50-cent transistor for the optional backlighting.  The pads for those two components were not on the mock-up in the OP.  And yes, a 5x15 matrix, pin-compatible with the JD45.

No surface-mount devices for you to solder!

Outer dimensions will match the Poker X PCB, and I will include both the weird Poker mounts and some more rational ones.

Final mock-up will include all of the above -- and then we'll have the Group Buy Sprint Run.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline geniekid

  • Posts: 763
  • Location: Chicago, IL
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 09:07:56 »
I vaguely remember reading that the bottom row has limited configurations for Alps.  Is this still true?  I think I see 1.25-unit mod support but it's hard to tell.

I'm likely in for one. 

Offline Ripudio

  • Posts: 65
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 09:13:10 »
Is there an add-on option for the Burlwood desk?

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14363
    • Tactile Zine
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 11:40:20 »
I'd probably pick up one PCB.

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 12:08:02 »
Quick update this morning; I'll try to answer all questions later.

Once again, jdcarpe is correct.  All through-hole on 0.100" centers (easy to solder!) and a Teensy under the |\ key.  Also a 50-cent transistor for the optional backlighting.  The pads for those two components were not on the mock-up in the OP.  And yes, a 5x15 matrix, pin-compatible with the JD45.

No surface-mount devices for you to solder!

Outer dimensions will match the Poker X PCB, and I will include both the weird Poker mounts and some more rational ones.

Final mock-up will include all of the above -- and then we'll have the Group Buy Sprint Run.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Ron,

What resistor values do you recommend for backlighting? I know you had it working on your JD45 prototype.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline engicoder

  • Posts: 721
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 12:17:39 »
Quick update this morning; I'll try to answer all questions later.

Once again, jdcarpe is correct.  All through-hole on 0.100" centers (easy to solder!) and a Teensy under the |\ key.  Also a 50-cent transistor for the optional backlighting.  The pads for those two components were not on the mock-up in the OP.  And yes, a 5x15 matrix, pin-compatible with the JD45.

No surface-mount devices for you to solder!

Outer dimensions will match the Poker X PCB, and I will include both the weird Poker mounts and some more rational ones.

Final mock-up will include all of the above -- and then we'll have the Group Buy Sprint Run.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Ron,

What resistor values do you recommend for backlighting? I know you had it working on your JD45 prototype.

Won't that depend on your choice of LED (i.e. color).
   

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 12:20:24 »
Quick update this morning; I'll try to answer all questions later.

Once again, jdcarpe is correct.  All through-hole on 0.100" centers (easy to solder!) and a Teensy under the |\ key.  Also a 50-cent transistor for the optional backlighting.  The pads for those two components were not on the mock-up in the OP.  And yes, a 5x15 matrix, pin-compatible with the JD45.

No surface-mount devices for you to solder!

Outer dimensions will match the Poker X PCB, and I will include both the weird Poker mounts and some more rational ones.

Final mock-up will include all of the above -- and then we'll have the Group Buy Sprint Run.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Ron,

What resistor values do you recommend for backlighting? I know you had it working on your JD45 prototype.

Won't that depend on your choice of LED (i.e. color).

Yes, but usually a couple resistor values can be used for either white/blue/green or amber/orange/red.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 15:01:49 »
Another quick update from work.

I've taken measurements of a Poker X PCB, and man, the mounting holes are going to be annoying.  Regardless, I shall try.

The attached diagram shows the Poker X (including mounting holes) in BLUE.  I have added some additional mounting points in RED.

Because the three interior mounting points on the Poker X are directly in-line with switch centers, and because the SD-60 has many, many more switch positions, there may be conflicts with those mounting holes.  I will try and keep the Poker mounts as long as it doesn't mean dropping switch positions.

I have a meeting exactly now, so this is all for the moment.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 12:30:32 »
OK, I have time for a more complete update.  I have measured the mounting holes from a Poker X, and managed to include all of them on the SD-60 PCB. In addition, I added some additional mounting holes for a total of eleven; not all of which will be easy to use in all configurations.  Basically, I tried to make sure there would be sufficient support regardless of case or configuration.  The diagram attached shows all of the mounting holes and slots highlighted in RED.

Regarding stock cases, I have done some test fits using the JD45, which has the same Teensy configuration.  For my tests, I used a CNC-milled aluminum custom case.  (I will likely repeat this test using a stock plastic Poker case.)

The PCB will fit into the case.  There are some issues.  First, the stock case has a standoff directly underneath the Teensy.  This must be removed.  The new mounting hole in the upper right corner would make a good replacement if desired.

Second, the Teensy would have to be flush mounted to the bottom of the PCB as much as possible.  I used a low-profile 1.200x0.700 IC socket with resistor leads for pins, and that was a bit too thick.  I'd say hard-mounted by hand would be best.  Certainly the "Teensy with pins" as provided by PJRC would be too tall, so buying the cheaper Teensy and hand-attaching it would be best.  This is a maybe as-is, but milling some of the case floor would certainly make this work.

Third, the USB connector on the Teensy is (a) in the wrong place and (b) too tall.  Making a careful cut-out for the USB connector would solve both problems, although the resulting  exit would be on the right-hand side of the case. For sure there is NOT room to route a right-angle USB cable from the Teensy to the normal exit on the back.

I can add provisions for a USB connector onto the PCB as on the JD40, but it would require removing the USB connector from the Teensy and hard-wiring from the Teensy to the PCB for that option to work.  (I can probably even make it possible to re-use the USB connector from the Teensy.

If you are are a likely buyer, and would like me to investigate alternative USB connectivity, please reply in this thread.

TL;DR As it is now, the SD-60 PCB can be used in a modified Poker case.  It would be better suited to a Swill "case", a bent-plate "case", or an acrylic "layered" case.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Is there an add-on option for the Burlwood desk?

Yes.  Please contact me for pricing and shipping details.  Delivery to Boston in Winter is not an option, but I would be happy to come out there in the two weeks of Spring -- before Summer hits!

Will there be plates?

Probably, but not from me.  Actually, it should work with stock Poker plates in most configurations.

Hi,
I'm a total newbie at custom boards.
I have a Focus FK 2001 with complicated white ALPS which isn't working, and it seems that I cannot fix it.
Could I use the switches of the faulty FK 2001, solder them on this PCB, put it into a Poker II case, add a Teensy Controller and then have my own 60% custom alps board?
Is this possible? Is it that easy?
If so, I would take one.
Does it support ISO layout?

An Alps expert has to reply in detail regarding those particular switches and keycaps.  I used the Matias switch mounting template for the ALPS positions.

The PCB cannot support the ISO Enter key, because it would directly interfere with the Teensy.  Other than that, yes.

Extra thick pcb will not work with pcb mount stabs.  0.0945" is 2.4mm, which is greater than the 1.64mm limit in this picture

Show Image


Rats.  You are totally correct.  This is annoying because there are just so many holes in a multi-configuration PCB, that I want it to be stiffened somehow.

I am going to try to work something out, but my suspicion is that I will fail, and the PCB will end up being normal thickness.   :'(

I vaguely remember reading that the bottom row has limited configurations for Alps.  Is this still true?  I think I see 1.25-unit mod support but it's hard to tell.

I'm likely in for one. 


Alps switches are supported on every position above the bottom row.  The bottom row has Alps support only for ANSI (1.25x3, 6.25, 1.25x4).  You should be able to see this better on the attachment to this post.  I could change the Alps bottom-row to Winkeyless, but would have to lose ANSI.  I am willing to make this change if people are actually going to build using Alps in that configuration.

I think that covers everything asked that hasn't already been correctly answered by someone else.

Thanks for your support!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
  • Posts: 14667
  • Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
  • because reasons.......
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 12:35:04 »
Bummer about the case, I don't see many people wanting to hack into their aluminum cases.

Offline user 18

  • * Senior Moderator
  • Posts: 2231
  • Location: Deutschland
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 12:49:10 »
Why not move the teensy to the left a bit, so we avoid problems 1 and 3?
Please PM me if you are waiting on classifieds approval or have a question about the classifieds rules. | geekhack Terms of Service

Max Nighthawk x8 (MX Brown) | CM QFR (MX Blue) | CM QFR (MX Clear) | RK-9000 (MX Red) | Model M 1391401 | Model M SSK 1370475 | CM Novatouch | G80-8113 (MX Clear) | 60% (85g MX Blue) | Whitefox Aria (MX Clear) | CL-LX (MX Clear) | Mira SE (MX Clear)
Avatar by ashdenej

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 12:52:04 »
Bummer about the case, I don't see many people wanting to hack into their aluminum cases.

Oh, me neither.  It was just the one I had empty and available for evaluation.  You know what it was waiting for, and I think it will stay waiting for that.  I might be okay having some interior milling done, but not punching a hole in the beautiful gun metal exterior.

Why not move the teensy to the left a bit, so we avoid problems 1 and 3?

I'll take a look at that, but the short answer is that more switches above it means more conflicts below.  But armed with data, I'll look into shifting it left by an inch.

---

I am about to mount my JD45 on a Swill "case" to see how that goes.  Also, Nubbs sent me a couple of the "other" controllers, and I might look into those.  I also have an acrylic layered case to look at, as well as a couple of Pokers still in plastic OEM cases.  I'll try those next.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline AKmalamute

  • HHKB Scrub
  • Posts: 837
  • Location: Western WA, USA
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 13:01:10 »
The case I'm planning on, is one of the vortex (?) aluminum ones from Pexon's GB. And while I wouldn't mind drilling a bit to make room for the USB plug where it is, I'm not entirely averse to modifying the breakout board either. Again, comparing to my phantom I've made a mini-C to std-B cable and might consider a similar adaptation for this board.

I'm a bit torn about my choices. I'd love to make this an ALPS board but would need to source a plate since alps/matias switches only have solder points at the very top, thus strongly encouraging the use of a plate.

As much as I love the ANSI-winkeyless bottom row, I think this will have all-the-keys / be stabilizerless, so the bottom row must be MX for me. Maybe I'll just go MX all the way after all, which leads me to considerations about the thickness.

Has anyone considered gluing the stabilizers? The 'legs' would fit into the hole and there's a foot between the legs that could be secured with crazy glue or just plain hotglue. Shoving a drop of hotglue into the legholes from the underside should net enough friction to hold everything in place for years of service, I should think.

Lastly, since you've specialized this one board, would you still get any scale-of-economy savings if you told the company "twelve in extra thick thirteen in normal" ? Then you could collect opinions on preferred thicknesses (I would prefer extra thick as I think that's a great idea).

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline geniekid

  • Posts: 763
  • Location: Chicago, IL
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 13:02:53 »
Alps switches are supported on every position above the bottom row.  The bottom row has Alps support only for ANSI (1.25x3, 6.25, 1.25x4).  You should be able to see this better on the attachment to this post.  I could change the Alps bottom-row to Winkeyless, but would have to lose ANSI.  I am willing to make this change if people are actually going to build using Alps in that configuration.

I would like the bottom row to remain 6.25 space ANSI for Alps.  Speaking only for myself, of course.

Offline Geroximo

  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Germany
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 14:12:40 »
Third, the USB connector on the Teensy is (a) in the wrong place and (b) too tall.  Making a careful cut-out for the USB connector would solve both problems, although the resulting  exit would be on the right-hand side of the case. For sure there is NOT room to route a right-angle USB cable from the Teensy to the normal exit on the back.

I can add provisions for a USB connector onto the PCB as on the JD40, but it would require removing the USB connector from the Teensy and hard-wiring from the Teensy to the PCB for that option to work.  (I can probably even make it possible to re-use the USB connector from the Teensy.
The cable coming out of the right-hand side would be really bothersome  :(
If there is no other option though, I'd still be in.

Alps switches are supported on every position above the bottom row.  The bottom row has Alps support only for ANSI (1.25x3, 6.25, 1.25x4).  You should be able to see this better on the attachment to this post.  I could change the Alps bottom-row to Winkeyless, but would have to lose ANSI.  I am willing to make this change if people are actually going to build using Alps in that configuration.

As I stated, I wanted to use the switches and caps of my FK2001, which are winkeyless. So a winkeyless ALPS bottom row would be cool. But if other buyers want an ANSI (1.25x3, 6.25, 1.25x4) ALPS bottom row, I can live with that and just go for a Cherry MX bottom row.

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 16:39:45 »
Update re USB and Teensy Placement

(No TL;DR for this message.)

I spent a few (several) hours working on moving the Teensy inwards, and adding a USB connector under the PCB, exiting between the Tilde and 1!  keys.  I think it might be do-able, but it certainly isn't the board I've designed already.  Other options, like moving the Teensy inwards enough to provide room for a right-angle USB cable to be routed out the top are much simpler.

My purpose in making this particular board was to get a 60% configurable and programmable PCB done and shipped quickly.  And as in all engineering projects, better is the enemy of good enough.  And in this case, adding the top-exit USB port directly to the PCB will require me to re-layout all of the traces, and will require builders to solder both tiny SMT traces off and on the Teensy plus solder the tiny through-hole connections that attach the USB connector to the back of the PCB.

On the other hand, eventually we will actually get our GH-60 PCBs.  And those do have the SMT and on-board USB connectors.  Plus case-compatibility.

Therefore, while I am attaching the results of the design exercise I went through today, I think I would much prefer to make the SD-60 as originally designed, possibly with a slight shift of the Teensy to enable a top-exiting USB cable.

Please chime in with your thoughts, opinions, and objections.

Thanks!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.


I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 16:47:21 »
I'd say go with your original design. Cases can be sorted later, either by modifying existing plastic cases, using a layered acrylic case, or a bent plate.

FYI, the Poker II added a screw mounting hole centered between the 'G' and 'H' keys.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline AKmalamute

  • HHKB Scrub
  • Posts: 837
  • Location: Western WA, USA
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 16:52:28 »
better is the enemy of good enough.
[...]
Therefore, I think I would much prefer to make the SD-60 as originally designed

I understand, and will get the board regardless of where the USB connection is made.
The GH60 should become real-world available this year, and that has existing-case compatibility at a much more refined level.

I'm just happy I can have a nice, small keyboard now (-ish).

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline user 18

  • * Senior Moderator
  • Posts: 2231
  • Location: Deutschland
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 16:59:14 »
I'm fine with any of the design options offered (teensy under |\, shifted teensy, shifted teensy + usb), and will probably pick up a pair of boards in any case. My preference would be for a shifted teensy and no usb mounted to the PCB.

Also, I see the matrix ended up 14x5 instead of 15x5. I am a fan :)
Please PM me if you are waiting on classifieds approval or have a question about the classifieds rules. | geekhack Terms of Service

Max Nighthawk x8 (MX Brown) | CM QFR (MX Blue) | CM QFR (MX Clear) | RK-9000 (MX Red) | Model M 1391401 | Model M SSK 1370475 | CM Novatouch | G80-8113 (MX Clear) | 60% (85g MX Blue) | Whitefox Aria (MX Clear) | CL-LX (MX Clear) | Mira SE (MX Clear)
Avatar by ashdenej

Offline CommonCurt

  • One of the cool kids
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 4643
  • Location: WPB, FL
  • 🍒 Beige or Bust
    • My Flickr Page
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 17:04:32 »
FYI, the Poker II added a screw mounting hole centered between the 'G' and 'H' keys.

Yep, was looking at that also.

Unfortunately if this isn't going to be compatible with most aftermarket cases (because of the usb connector) then I'm probably gonna have to pass.
Some of Ye ole  Keyboards -->
More
OTD Koala:  62g Old MX-Blacks   |   LZ-GH V2:  MX-?62g   |   KMAC2:   62g Tactile MX-Greys   |   LZ CLS s:   62g Vintage MX-Blacks   |   X60:   62g Vintage MX-Blacks   |   GON NerD 60:  62g Old MX-Clears   |   Filco MJ2 (Beige) TKL's:  62g MX-Clears  &   62g Vintage MX-Blacks   |   IBM '91 SSK
                                
       
WTB/WTS/WTT ---->
More

Offline digi

  • elite af tbh
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 2789
  • keyboard game on fleek
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 17:05:59 »
My purpose in making this particular board was to get a 60% configurable and programmable PCB done and shipped quickly.

That's also the reason I jumped in on this, I've never done a project with Teensy and was eager to work on it as a side project. I agree with JD, cases can be modified, etc.

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 17:12:45 »
Ok, thanks everyone for the quick replies.  I'm carrying on with the SD-60 as originally designed.

Also, I score the Alps bottom row census as a tie, so the ANSI configuration stays.

Also, I see the matrix ended up 14x5 instead of 15x5. I am a fan :)

Yes.  As on the JD-45, I cheated.  However, in this case it was with ulterior motives -- what could I do with one more pin?  That would mean I could get a 5x16 matrix out of 20 data pins!  Hmmm.  That is a topic for another thread.

Thanks again, y'all!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline AKmalamute

  • HHKB Scrub
  • Posts: 837
  • Location: Western WA, USA
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 18:49:36 »
So, one thought on the extra-thick PCB: this person here is selling screw-mount PCB stabilizers. Now, I have no personal experience with such devices but it occurs to me that, if you had such ... couldn't you just use a longer screw?

Also that's assuming there's more sources for such things than one poor GH's classifieds thread ... or that s/he has enough for this whole buy </wink> but I'm slightly biased since I just want to work with an extra thick PCB, since I haven't, before.

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline Ripudio

  • Posts: 65
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 22 January 2015, 09:28:48 »
Just a random thought: Is it really worth making the PCB Poker case compatible if it won't find in something like a TEX/Pexon style case without modification? I for one wouldn't be able to have a case milled down.

Offline Paranoid

  • Posts: 279
  • Location: Belgium
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 22 January 2015, 10:36:44 »
Count me in for one as well

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 22 January 2015, 11:21:23 »
Just a random thought: Is it really worth making the PCB Poker case compatible if it won't find in something like a TEX/Pexon style case without modification? I for one wouldn't be able to have a case milled down.

I was wondering that very thing.  The PCB size is the same anyhow, so really it is a question of where mounting holes are placed.  I think I will play with that a bit anyhow.  If there is no harm in using the same mounting locations, I don't see why I shouldn't put holes there.

Anyhow, thanks for the thought.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline digi

  • elite af tbh
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 2789
  • keyboard game on fleek
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 22 January 2015, 15:09:00 »
Was the issue regarding the extra PCB width and Cherry PCB mount stabs every addressed? thanks

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 22 January 2015, 16:30:10 »
Was the issue regarding the extra PCB width and Cherry PCB mount stabs every addressed? thanks

Not yet.  I have neither succeeded nor given up.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline joneslee85

  • HHKB Scrub JP
  • Posts: 399
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Professional Rubyist programmer!
    • Ruby Journal
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 22 January 2015, 16:32:19 »
Hi Sam, I'd like to order 2 please.
TOO MANY KEYBOARDS THAT I COULD NOT COUNT! BUT I AM STILL USING MY MODEL F77

Offline quochung1989

  • Vintage Cherry Collector
  • Posts: 1187
  • Location: Ebay heaven.
  • Frenzy Classic.
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 23 January 2015, 07:19:09 »
Hi. I want take 2 pcs

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:57:44 »
Thanks for the continued interest!

Quick update:  I have ordered some 0.093" PCB material (thank you eBay!) and will test-fit some Cherry PCB stabs.  I don't think it is critical for this board, but I really want to be able to make the GH-122/154 really robust.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline digi

  • elite af tbh
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 2789
  • keyboard game on fleek
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 23 January 2015, 10:04:59 »
Thanks for the continued interest!

Quick update:  I have ordered some 0.093" PCB material (thank you eBay!) and will test-fit some Cherry PCB stabs.  I don't think it is critical for this board, but I really want to be able to make the GH-122/154 really robust.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Cool! Thanks for testing that..

Offline iamtootallforthis

  • Something a lot Funnier
  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4739
  • Location: West Palm Beach, FL
  • I like green stuffs.
    • WTB/WTTF Thread
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 01:40:24 »
Thanks for the continued interest!

Quick update:  I have ordered some 0.093" PCB material (thank you eBay!) and will test-fit some Cherry PCB stabs.  I don't think it is critical for this board, but I really want to be able to make the GH-122/154 really robust.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Thank you got the continued effort on this board!

Offline Fire Brand

  • Keeper of Rainbows
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 2439
  • Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
  • BISCUITS!
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 17:20:07 »
Ohh I just found this, if its still open I would love to be put down for one :)
My Youtube Channel ~
More
Keyboards owned
More
Poker II - MX Black, Poker II ISO - MX Blue :c QFR ISO - MX Black, HHKB Pro 2 Black, VA68M - Gat Blacks w/68g Gold springs
My classified thread :3
More

Offline AKmalamute

  • HHKB Scrub
  • Posts: 837
  • Location: Western WA, USA
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #86 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 17:38:56 »
That's a lot of first-round orders. Is it worth it to consider a different PCB source, or are we not up to such significant orders? Or maybe the multiples-of-ten scale from OshPark, or something?

I'm still in favor of thicker material, FWIW.

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #87 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 20:44:55 »
That's a lot of first-round orders. Is it worth it to consider a different PCB source, or are we not up to such significant orders? Or maybe the multiples-of-ten scale from OshPark, or something?

I'm still in favor of thicker material, FWIW.

Well, it is a bunch of interest, but let's see how many people actually buy.  But if we end up with >25, I'll probably split the buy into a couple of rounds, maybe with some slight differences.

I also am in favor of a thick PCB.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #88 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 20:46:53 »
I say go for it, with the thicker PCB. People can either use plate mount stabs or glue them into the PCB. :)
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline user 18

  • * Senior Moderator
  • Posts: 2231
  • Location: Deutschland
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #89 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 21:10:44 »
I plan to get a Poker II plate and use plate mount stabs with mine, fwiw. Would be interested in a thick PCB.
Please PM me if you are waiting on classifieds approval or have a question about the classifieds rules. | geekhack Terms of Service

Max Nighthawk x8 (MX Brown) | CM QFR (MX Blue) | CM QFR (MX Clear) | RK-9000 (MX Red) | Model M 1391401 | Model M SSK 1370475 | CM Novatouch | G80-8113 (MX Clear) | 60% (85g MX Blue) | Whitefox Aria (MX Clear) | CL-LX (MX Clear) | Mira SE (MX Clear)
Avatar by ashdenej

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 26 January 2015, 12:57:40 »
I've been working on the firmware prep for this board while I wait for the 0.093" PCB samples to arrive.  And thinking about firmware compatibility among the various PCBs I have under design.  And what I want to do with a small run of 60% boards, exactly.

I would like to be able to drop an SD-60 into the CNC case I have waiting for the GH60 shipment, but maybe that isn't a practical goal.  I think keeping the same outside dimensions would be good, but I don't think I want to stress mount-point compatibility if it can't be 100% anyhow.

I do want to make the SD-60 become the core block on the GH-122/154,  And I would like to provide the best possible build experience for the relatively small number of people who get an SD-60.  And both of those are more important to me than either Poker or JD45 compatibility.

All of that is to hint that I may diverge from the Poker form factor and the JD45 electronics more than I have -- in order to make the SD-60 and the GH-122/154 the best they can be.  I won't go to the extreme of using a Teensy ++ 2.0 for the SD-60, but I will likely switch a few pin assignments around.

The project goals remain the mostly the same.  I'll add a couple of extra adjectives in italics to cover my latest thoughts.

 - 100% through-hole components on minimum .010" centers for easy assembly.
 - Keyboard controller Teensy 2.0 (mostly JD45 pinout compatible to simplify use with Easy_Map firmware-generator).
 - Full backlighting.
 - Supports Cherry MX and Alps switches wherever possible, including full ANSI for Alps switches.
 - Stabilizer holes provided for PCB-mount stabilizers in ANSI configuration.
 - Alternative switch positions to support 100% stabilizer-free keyboard configuration.
 - Bottom row supports 6.25 ANSI spacebar, 7.0 Winkeyless spacebar, 6.0 spacebar, and dual 1.75-key split spacebar.
 - Right (and left) Shift key splits to provide a "happily hacking" layout.
 - PCB sized to match Poker/GH-60 PCB dimensions, although not necessarily Poker/GH60 mounting or cable exit points.
 - Use of extra-thick PCB material if that does not conflict with PCB-mount stabilizes.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #91 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 10:03:02 »
I've been working on the JD45, but fiddling with the large-scale layout of the SD-60 while I do that.

I have not done careful measurements yet, but it appears that placing the Teensy underneath the I and O keys would allow the PCB to be used in stock Poker cases.  Including feeding the USB cable out the left-rear through the existing hole.

Better remains the enemy of good enough, so I don't know if I will do this for the first run.  But I might.

Expressions of interest would help me decide.

Thanks!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #92 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 10:05:10 »
I've been working on the JD45, but fiddling with the large-scale layout of the SD-60 while I do that.

I have not done careful measurements yet, but it appears that placing the Teensy underneath the I and O keys would allow the PCB to be used in stock Poker cases.  Including feeding the USB cable out the left-rear through the existing hole.

Better remains the enemy of good enough, so I don't know if I will do this for the first run.  But I might.

Expressions of interest would help me decide.

Thanks!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

I'm definitely in support of moving the Teensy and pointing the USB jack toward where the opening in the back of the case would be.  I think being able to use an existing case or not may be a deal maker/breaker for some.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline nubbinator

  • Dabbler Supreme
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 8658
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Model M "connoisseur"
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 10:18:47 »
I second what JD said.  I know it's more work, but it would make it more accessible to people.

Offline user 18

  • * Senior Moderator
  • Posts: 2231
  • Location: Deutschland
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #94 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 10:35:41 »
Either way works, I'm fine with the teensy under I/O, even if it left me with a fixed cable. Case compatibility is the much more important part. If we can get the first run working in existing cases, even with a few compromises, I think that falls under 'good enough'. Playing with the USB connector or attaching it to the board itself can wait for a second run.

Personally, if I knew there was going to be a second run with case compatibility, that would encourage me to wait for said second run.
Please PM me if you are waiting on classifieds approval or have a question about the classifieds rules. | geekhack Terms of Service

Max Nighthawk x8 (MX Brown) | CM QFR (MX Blue) | CM QFR (MX Clear) | RK-9000 (MX Red) | Model M 1391401 | Model M SSK 1370475 | CM Novatouch | G80-8113 (MX Clear) | 60% (85g MX Blue) | Whitefox Aria (MX Clear) | CL-LX (MX Clear) | Mira SE (MX Clear)
Avatar by ashdenej

Offline samwisekoi

  • MAWG since 1997
  • * Administrator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2480
  • Location: Mt. View, California
  • Sorry, moving houses. Be back ASAP.
    • Tweet samwisekoi
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 10:42:54 »
OK, I'll play with my CAD mockup with more intent.

Thanks for the quick replies!

 - Ron
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Vintage

  • Posts: 460
  • Location: United States
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 10:48:18 »
Great price! GL with this GB  :D
CM QFR w/ MX Reds  | Logitech G900


Offline berserkfan

  • Posts: 2135
  • Location: Not CONUS Not CONUS Not CONUS Not CONUS
  • changing diapers is more fun than model f assembly
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 12:28:48 »
I feel very sad when I see the level of enthusiasm for this (in comparison with the more muted GH36 response.) Really was hoping that the GH36 could kick start some interest in split layout matrix keyboards, that all the beta testers would be burning with enthusiasm, that production would be rolling on the GH36. But it seems everyone wants the 60%.

Still hoping...
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline user 18

  • * Senior Moderator
  • Posts: 2231
  • Location: Deutschland
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 12:36:30 »
I'm waiting for gh36 as well -- hoping to purchase at least five of those boards.
Please PM me if you are waiting on classifieds approval or have a question about the classifieds rules. | geekhack Terms of Service

Max Nighthawk x8 (MX Brown) | CM QFR (MX Blue) | CM QFR (MX Clear) | RK-9000 (MX Red) | Model M 1391401 | Model M SSK 1370475 | CM Novatouch | G80-8113 (MX Clear) | 60% (85g MX Blue) | Whitefox Aria (MX Clear) | CL-LX (MX Clear) | Mira SE (MX Clear)
Avatar by ashdenej

Offline berserkfan

  • Posts: 2135
  • Location: Not CONUS Not CONUS Not CONUS Not CONUS
  • changing diapers is more fun than model f assembly
Re: [IC] Samwisekoi Designs SD-60 Programmable, Backlit 60% Keyboard
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 12:42:28 »
I'm waiting for gh36 as well -- hoping to purchase at least five of those boards.

Are you kidding me?

I was targeting 2, just one pair for use. What use do you have for 5? :p
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.