geekhack Community > Keyboards

Question on hhkb and topre.

(1/3) > >>

Exquite:
Hi, I always stick to mx the whole time, so I wonder what the difference in typing feels between mx and topre. I have never had a chance to click any topre switches. The price of hhkb is so high, so I wonder whether the typing feels can justify it. This brings me a curiosity about the feels of topre so much that I have been watching a plethora of topre reviews. Is it smooth? Is it tactile-like or linear-like (forgive me for this description based on mx)? Thankss

Tactile:
If you're just interested in the Topre switches you shouldn't be looking at HHKB but instead Realforce keyboards. The HHKB layout is so different that if it's not your primary interest you should probably stay away. My point is that many folks have bought HHKB to try the Topre switches and then couldn't tolerate the oddball layout and ended up selling it. For full disclosure I have two HHKB & one Realforce board.

With a Realforce keyboard you get Topre switches along with a standard layout. There are also some options for Realforce, like 55 gram switches (my favorite), which you can't get on a HHKB.

The HHKB layout is very much not for everyone. Many people have bought one and tried to like it without success. I'm typing on one right now but it's not for most people.

My Realforce board is an older tenkeyless with 55 gram switches and it's great. It would be the one keyboard I'd keep if I had to go down to just one keyboard.

Sup:
I have a different perspective from Tactile on this matter. In my view, the HHKB layout offers superior ergonomics and a more logically efficient design compared to the default layout. However, the challenge lies in people's resistance to change, often leading them to instantly dislike the layout due to their ingrained muscle memory. If you're heavily into gaming, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the HHKB as it's more tailored for productivity rather than gaming.

The HHKB provides a tactile feel reminiscent of a regular rubber dome, but it offers a premium sensation. Its tactility is rounded, resulting in a softer bottom out compared to the firmer bottom outs experienced with MX switches and the tactile feedback.

It's important to note that HHKB and Realforce utilize different plates, contributing to distinct experiences with Topre switches. The HHKB, owing to its integrated plastic plate, tends to offer a softer bottom out, while the Realforce, with its stainless steel plate, delivers a firmer experience, albeit still softer than an MX switch.

The justification of Topre's price depends entirely on personal preference. The most effective way to gauge its worth is through firsthand experience. Topre keyboards may not cater to everyone's needs or tastes, making it essential to try them out before determining their value to you.

Exquite:

--- Quote from: Sup on Sat, 18 November 2023, 15:13:03 ---I have a different perspective from Tactile on this matter. In my view, the HHKB layout offers superior ergonomics and a more logically efficient design compared to the default layout. However, the challenge lies in people's resistance to change, often leading them to instantly dislike the layout due to their ingrained muscle memory. If you're heavily into gaming, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the HHKB as it's more tailored for productivity rather than gaming.

The HHKB provides a tactile feel reminiscent of a regular rubber dome, but it offers a premium sensation. Its tactility is rounded, resulting in a softer bottom out compared to the firmer bottom outs experienced with MX switches and the tactile feedback.

It's important to note that HHKB and Realforce utilize different plates, contributing to distinct experiences with Topre switches. The HHKB, owing to its integrated plastic plate, tends to offer a softer bottom out, while the Realforce, with its stainless steel plate, delivers a firmer experience, albeit still softer than an MX switch.

The justification of Topre's price depends entirely on personal preference. The most effective way to gauge its worth is through firsthand experience. Topre keyboards may not cater to everyone's needs or tastes, making it essential to try them out before determining their value to you.

--- End quote ---
Thank you so much! I have heard that topre switches may be somewhat "sandy" or not smooth. Is it true? Actually, I don't mind the sound or layout. Feeling is the most important aspect to me, and I want to try something new. Do you think topre would be a good choice for someone who likes solid bottom-out, smooth feelings?

Axiom_:
Valid points.

I'd like to add to the discussion my 2 cents:

On the topic of feel, Topre is distinct and hard to compare to. It is softer and offers more of a non-linear response when depressed. Most of the sensation of Topre switches come from the rubber dome that bares similarity to those found in more common, mass-market low profile keyboards. Topre switches also have springs but they buckle more than MX-style switches, making them more "compliant" and softer to the touch. Unlike the activation mechanism behind say tactile MX switches, Topre has no physical activation and therefore offers no additional physical feedback other than the rubber dome + spring.

Do keep in mind that Topre is not linear, it does offer a subtle feedback sensation when bottomed out. This sensation is however, caused by the buckling of the rubber cup rather than the mechanical mechanism on MX-style switches; the feedback of a Topre switch is more "organic" owing to the compliant system.

Aside from HHKB and Realforce, I would recommend taking a look at the Leopold FC660C. The Leopold has more of a 65% layout and is easier to carry around. That being said, it has a metal backing plate, making the sensation a little different from HHKB. The metal plate affords more isolation to each individual key, offering slightly more tactility IMO.

Tactility aside, as an owner of a Leopold FC660C and a number of custom keyboards + mx style switches, I personally don't use the Leopold keyboard as my daily driver due to the plastic construction.

Regarding the "solid bottom-out, smooth feelings" OP mentioned, could you elaborate? Topre requires you to bottom-out to activate it and the feeling is relatively softer and more organic than MX-style switches.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page