Space bar flipping started because some people with little girly hands somehow hurt their delicate fingers/thumbs on the "sharp edges" of the space bars.
I tried flipping a space bar, and it just looked and felt weird, so I put it back the way it was meant to go.
Maybe space bars should be made out of softer materials for people with softer hands?
Space bar flipping started because some people with little girly hands somehow hurt their delicate fingers/thumbs on the "sharp edges" of the space bars.
I tried flipping a space bar, and it just looked and felt weird, so I put it back the way it was meant to go.
Maybe space bars should be made out of softer materials for people with softer hands?
I tried doing it because it was all the rage a while back, but flipped them back because it felt dumb. Then I tried it recently again with a couple of my boards, gave it a week, and now I can't go back.
I think a spacebar that was intended to be "flippped", and was also slightly taller than a standard spacebar would be perfect (sorry if that description doesn't make sense)
would also like to mention that I'm 6'4 and my hands are far from being tiny or girly
I think a spacebar that was intended to be "flippped", and was also slightly taller than a standard spacebar would be perfect (sorry if that description doesn't make sense)
would also like to mention that I'm 6'4 and my hands are far from being tiny or girlyShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/mZdIW9W.png)
Maybe this pic will help describe what I mean
Space bar flipping started because some people with little girly hands somehow hurt their delicate fingers/thumbs on the "sharp edges" of the space bars.and ergos are made by poosies who get wrist injuries from typing on freakin keyboards. what's your point?
I think it's mostly just a matter of the sharp edge being kinda crap to type on. No, it's not the end of the world or anything, but if you don't care about your keys being nice to type on, you may be on the wrong forum.
Currently my space key is not a "bar", but a 1u SA row 2 key. The angle is pretty ideal for me and it's comfortable to type on. I think it would translate well to a conventional space bar. if it was flat or convex like a conventional bar, it would be better. As it is , the bottom edge does dig in slightly, because I use the side of my thumb, Ideally, as 1u key, cylindrical at this same height and angle would be best, but that's definitely more of a niche thing than your average space bar on 99.8% of keyboards.
Space bar flipping started because some people with little girly hands somehow hurt their delicate fingers/thumbs on the "sharp edges" of the space bars.It’s more about poor desk setups, keyboard tilt angles, and typing style than girly hands.
If you’re tempted to flip the spacebar, that means you should either tilt the keyboard up more at the back, or raise your chair relative to your desk.
I'm not a ****boy so I just raise my knuckles a bit and it feels nice on my thumb.
Does me remind of one interesting kb design of dell.. the Dell SK-8115. Although I will never publicly admit anything likable about the rubberdome dell kb's, this is kinda interesting now we're talking about spacebars:Show Image(http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/input_devices/mechanical_keyboards/dell_sk8115_keyboard.jpg)
(Image courtesy of benchmarkreviews.com)
i am comfortable typing with. my forearms at a slightly upward angle, palms resting on the edge of my desk. if I raise my chair, i need a palm rest to keep my wrists straight, and it also puts my fingers too much over the board putting a bit of extra strain on the tendons on my hands. I don't really like flipped space bars, but a 10 degree angle would work well for me.Type however is comfortable for you, stay safe out there, etc.
Does me remind of one interesting kb design of dell.. the Dell SK-8115.Microsoft did a couple ergonomics studies a while back demonstrating the benefits of an extra-wide spacebar, and there are multiple companies making rubber dome boards like this. Unfortunately not too many discrete-switch keyboards have tried to follow.Show Image(http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/input_devices/mechanical_keyboards/dell_sk8115_keyboard.jpg)
Does me remind of one interesting kb design of dell.. the Dell SK-8115. Although I will never publicly admit anything likable about the rubberdome dell kb's, this is kinda interesting now we're talking about spacebars:Show Image(http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/input_devices/mechanical_keyboards/dell_sk8115_keyboard.jpg)
(Image courtesy of benchmarkreviews.com)
Easy there. That keyboard is a fine rubberdome. As so is another one that Dell makes, but I forget the model number (check my sig). The space bar is fantastic, but hardly easily replicated for the mass amount of Cherry boards we have.
Space bar flipping started because some people with little girly hands somehow hurt their delicate fingers/thumbs on the "sharp edges" of the space bars.It’s more about poor desk setups, keyboard tilt angles, and typing style than girly hands.
If you’re tempted to flip the spacebar, that means you should either tilt the keyboard up more at the back, or raise your chair relative to your desk.
With that said though, the standard spacebar keycap shape is stupid.
I think a spacebar that was intended to be "flippped", and was also slightly taller than a standard spacebar would be perfect (sorry if that description doesn't make sense)
would also like to mention that I'm 6'4 and my hands are far from being tiny or girlyShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/mZdIW9W.png)
Maybe this pic will help describe what I mean
OEM profile?
The only space bar I'd flip is DSA :p
Space bar flipping started because some people with little girly hands somehow hurt their delicate fingers/thumbs on the "sharp edges" of the space bars.
I tried flipping a space bar, and it just looked and felt weird, so I put it back the way it was meant to go.
Maybe space bars should be made out of softer materials for people with softer hands?
I tried doing it because it was all the rage a while back, but flipped them back because it felt dumb. Then I tried it recently again with a couple of my boards, gave it a week, and now I can't go back.
Does me remind of one interesting kb design of dell.. the Dell SK-8115. Although I will never publicly admit anything likable about the rubberdome dell kb's, this is kinda interesting now we're talking about spacebars:Show Image(http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/input_devices/mechanical_keyboards/dell_sk8115_keyboard.jpg)
(Image courtesy of benchmarkreviews.com)
the thing is, that if everything else is set up the way you're comfortable, making adjustments just to make that one key better will likely make other things worse.
I am with jacobolus here. If the edge of the space bar is digging to much, you should probably look at you setup relating to ergonomics. Though I think some people to just have girly hands.
the thing is, that if everything else is set up the way you're comfortable, making adjustments just to make that one key better will likely make other things worse.
I am with jacobolus here. If the edge of the space bar is digging to much, you should probably look at you setup relating to ergonomics. Though I think some people to just have girly hands.
You could make the same arguments for keycap profiles. don't be a wimp, just adjust to oem.
the thing is, that if everything else is set up the way you're comfortable, making adjustments just to make that one key better will likely make other things worse.The point is, if you’re not comfortable without flipping the spacebar, there’s almost certainly something else set up wrongly. But hey, if you prefer it and your setup isn’t causing you discomfort or strain, go for it. The standard keyboard design is so irrevocably broken that any minor change you make is unlikely to make it worse. Be careful out there though. RSI is no joke.
You could make the same arguments for keycap profiles. don't be a wimp, just adjust to oem.“OEM” profile isn’t the worst ever, but it could really use more step between rows. It’s basically a bastardized version of Alps standard cylindrical profile from the late 1980s, but whoever was doing the copying didn’t really get it. (Where, similarly, the Alps/cherry/DCS/etc. profiles from the late 80s are bastardized versions of the Honeywell/IBM profiles from the 70s, made by people who also didn’t quite get it, but at least did a slightly better job copying.)
I am of the opinion that you are hitting the space bar from enough of an angle that you are hitting the edge sharp enough, then your wrists are bent"sharp enough"? The angle, at least in my case, is fairly subtle. It's not that a normal space bar is actually that bad, just that there's room for improvement IMO. The 7 degree angle on the SA row 2 key I'm using for space on this board is pretty close to ideal. It feels like I'm still pressing the front edge of it a bit much, but that's proabably because it's a standard concave key, not a convex space bar. I find that an inverted space bar on a normal board is a little too much angle, but I understand how some might prefer a bit too steep to a bit too flat.
The point is, if you’re not comfortable without flipping the spacebar, there’s almost certainly something else set up wrongly.I am with you there. I don't like a flipped space bar either. It goes from being just a little to flat, to being way too steep and weird feeling. I thing the OP's question wasn't so much "to flip, or not to flip", or simply if there should be some kind of angle. His "flipping" was just his way of dealing with it. I mean, if he liked the flip that much, he would just do it, rather than questioning the standard design. IMO it just goes from wrong one way to wrong another. Which kind of wrong bothers you less is subjective.
DSA and SA, when used switches with straight stems, are just bad. Worse than “OEM”.
Better keycaps for standard keyboards could definitely be designed, but paying for injection molding tooling is damn expensive, and not many of the people selling keycaps understand or care what the design criteria should be. Cf. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62444Yeah, and additionally, different hands will weight those criteria in different ways. And it's not like there's really been a whole lot of innovation on that front to drive competition either.
the other day, i saw an old keytronic dome board which had a spacebar whose angle resembled that of a flipped spacebar; the spacebars on some of these rubber domes are amazingly well-designed; almost like they're compensating shoddy switches with finger comfort....
Topre caps have a pretty good shape, and space invader caps are even better. I think space invaders have pretty much the best cylindrical keycap profile around, though there might be some other okay ones floating around on obscure 80s keyboards. I also quite like the profile from the Apple Extended Keyboard.
However, I do not particularly like the bottom row (where the spacebar is) on Topre boards / caps, because they are tilted a bit too far inwards to the center of the board (a bit to far away from me). I do not really understand why they do that.I agree, it’s too aggressive. I think Topre boards have the same profile for the ZXCV row and the spacebar row? (I don’t have any Topre boards, so I can’t measure directly.) Using the same profile for those two rows is better if you plan to use your fingers to press the keys, but if you want to use your thumbs, then less slope is better.
The general idea is to have it be parallel to the table when the keyboard is tilted for a tall desk / low chair
Also similar is Signature Plastics discontinued SS profile, the purple outlines in the below diagram, and SP’s SA profile when used on keyswitches with tilted stems, the red outlines. (Black dot outline is DCS, which has a less aggressive step between rows but a more aggressively sloped spacebar.)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EfMi4SX.png)