Author Topic: [IC] GMK alphas €49.5/set  (Read 27452 times)

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Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - Orangsicle?
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 10 November 2016, 08:40:57 »
A poll - even when have proved wrong, most of the time - may come handy, at least to get some data on interest for different colors for base and legends.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - Orangsicle?
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 10 November 2016, 09:27:16 »
Thanks, I'll do that tomorrow, I'm quite in a hurry right now :-) Meanwhile if you a list of options to suggest, I would be happy to include them.

Offline wodan

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - Orangsicle?
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 10 November 2016, 09:32:02 »
Those orange caps are very similair to the GMK Monkey keycaps from a GB last spring. Originative still has them in stock:
https://www.originativeco.com/products/orange-dream

Edit: I don't want to be a party pooper but make you aware that this will be a difficult color scheme to sell while something very close is still in stock.
« Last Edit: Thu, 10 November 2016, 09:40:09 by wodan »

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - POLL added
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 04:26:25 »

Offline Applet

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - Orangsicle?
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 06:08:49 »
Any plans on adding the light "\|" R1 1U key for HHKB-layout? That should be the only key required to support the layout right? Most of the modifier-kits come with HHKB-support

I think that hhkb would require two keys, not just one. See the keys circled in yellow. If there's demand, we could add it.
What do you think about the colors?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Oh, I forgot to answer, my thought was that the other key often is included in modifier-kits, and thus not needed in this kit? I am uncertain on color, but as many others would suggest something that works well with classic sets.

Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - POLL added
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 07:31:34 »

The set should include some alternate keys like:


\| R1, R3, R4, 1.5u R2
'~ R1, R3
<>\ R4
#~ R3


Because it will not be color compatible with any standard set.


I think we are talking about four dollars @150 units; or so, to include them, but the set will greatly expand its compatibility.


Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - POLL added
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 08:00:53 »
ANSI Alpha set with extended support for ISO UK, HHKB and some European ANSI variants.



Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - POLL added
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 03:22:46 »
ANSI Alpha set with extended support for ISO UK, HHKB and some European ANSI variants.


Show Image


Thanks for this valuable suggestion.

I've asked gmk if joining kit A and B could possibly lower the per key price.
« Last Edit: Sat, 19 November 2016, 00:57:56 by Giorgio »

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €43/set - POLL added
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 02:45:59 »
I think that everyone will like this new price. I joined the three sets, bringing the number of keys to 71, and the price increases by only 6.5 eur.

71pcs. Set (A+B+C)
MOQ 150 sets, 49.5€/set, (net, EXW, individual sorting and packing in a shrink-wrapped plastic tray)


 
Plus, possibly, some GMK keys for free.

 

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 03:16:50 »
As a general suggestion/feedback, this IC is a bit hard to follow

Some suggestions:
1) Add a Purpose/Aim: Probably the reason is every GB leaving some people behind, while they can easily satisfy a larger group of people, with alternative packs
2) Update the original post with progress: Even a simple keyboardlayouteditor collection of the current keys would do

Otherwise great work, I'm curious what this IC will evolve into
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Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 04:21:47 »
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]
As a general suggestion/feedback, this IC is a bit hard to follow

Some suggestions:
1) Add a Purpose/Aim: Probably the reason is every GB leaving some people behind, while they can easily satisfy a larger group of people, with alternative packs
2) Update the original post with progress: Even a simple keyboardlayouteditor collection of the current keys would do

Otherwise great work, I'm curious what this IC will evolve into

thanks, I updated the OP with a "render"
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2016, 09:47:57 by Giorgio »

Offline Applet

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 04:51:17 »
Did we skip the R1 \| ? This is a deal breaker for me (and probably some others in the 60% camp).

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 05:23:08 »
Did we skip the R1 \| ? This is a deal breaker for me (and probably some others in the 60% camp).

added, thanks for noticing!

Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 09:43:23 »
The R1 tilde is part of the Alphas in an ANSI set, it should be included; or, maybe you should change the name of the set that implies people are getting a full alpha set; which, will not be true with no tilde.


Pricing is good; but, the lack of the tilde and a R3 \| may prevent me to join; unless, the set comes in standard beige to pair it with the keys I have on hand, already.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 10:00:08 »
The R1 tilde is part of the Alphas in an ANSI set, it should be included; or, maybe you should change the name of the set that implies people are getting a full alpha set; which, will not be true with no tilde.


Pricing is good; but, the lack of the tilde and a R3 \| may prevent me to join; unless, the set comes in standard beige to pair it with the keys I have on hand, already.

I fixed the tilde, but why should we add the "R3 \| "? There's already the R3 #?

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 10:06:43 »
I guess R3 \| is for the ISO English, with the big enter

But, R1 `~ is already in the renders, ideus?
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Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 10:18:53 »
Thank you for adding the tilde.


Regarding the R3 \|, as Khaannn stated, it is for ISO English layouts. In my case, I decided to use ISO English because I found it to be the best layout for Latex writing, that requires the use of \ character for all commands, making its use more frequent than with regular writing; thus, all my boards are laid out with it. Being this set made in special colors, I will not have an acceptable way to replace it, if it is missing.


Here is the culprit:





I understand that this may be a particular need that should not be addressed if it does not have demand. So I will be very happy seeing this going into production with no such key, however, it will not be for me.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2016, 10:23:56 by ideus »

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 10:32:04 »
ISO/ANSI Enter /| is a dilemma for me too, from time to time, I wonder whether the huge enter is better for me, during a time, I kept mis-clicking enter while I was aiming for '"

For programming, I use | heavily, and I use Ctrl+\ to send quit signals to processes, regularly, contrary to ideus, that's why I stick to the ANSI layout, as I'm using \| heavily, giving it a 1.5u spot is worth it

But typing wise, I would say, the ISO Enter is better, less chance of Enter mis-clicks, and Enter mis-clicks are super costly in the Instant Messaging world we live in
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Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 10:36:52 »
I had the same dilemma and I did my own personal experimentation in the last four years, finally, I settled with big ISO Enter and |\ in the home row. The layout is not the more handsome, symmetry-wise, but it rocks while typing. See this short example of the headings in a test I am writing for this week in Latex  :)) :



\documentclass[11pt]{exam}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[spanish]{babel}
\decimalpoint
\usepackage[margin=1in]{geometry}
\usepackage{amsmath,amssymb}
\usepackage{multicol}


% Checkmarks and cross marks
\usepackage{pifont}
\newcommand{\cmark}{\ding{52}}
\newcommand{\xmark}{\ding{56}}


\pointpoints{punto}{puntos}
\hpword{Puntos:}
\vpword{Puntos}
\htword{Totale}
\vtword{Totales}
\vsword{Resultado}




\newcommand{\class}{Int. al Dis. de Experimentos}
\newcommand{\term}{Admisión 2017-A}
\newcommand{\examnum}{Ex. Parte I y Parte II.}
\newcommand{\examdate}{26 de Noviembre de 2016}
\newcommand{\timelimit}{150 ''}


\pagestyle{head}
\firstpageheader{}{}{}
\runningheader{\class}{\examnum\ - Page \thepage\ of \numpages}{\examdate}
\runningheadrule
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2016, 10:39:53 by ideus »

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 05:26:54 »
I'm not sure what to think about it, but the R3 |/ seems quite rare...
And the R4 |/ should probably be replaced by <>?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#United_Kingdom

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 05:44:33 »
The R3 \| is actually very common, in my opinion, I don't know what R4 \| is for tho, for me, the R4 \| seems specialised and uncommon
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Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 07:39:00 »
An alternative for R4 \| is <>\.


Again, as Khaannn referred, the R3 \| key is included in classic sets for some variations of ANSI layouts with ISO Enter keys; while, R1 \| is demanded, just recently, due to the interest for implementing the HHKB layout on MX keyboards. I have seen a few examples of old keyboards that carries the last, though.

Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #72 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 10:26:53 »

One more suggestion:


Duynguyenle's advice on Ivan's side printed legends is a great solution for the ISO-UK keys, it saves three keys out of the Alpha set; also, it allows the addition of US ANSI International sublegends that may cover the need of many international users if they use the US ANSI layout.


I suggest the following alpha's side printed legends:





Here there are some samples of the keys with ISO-UK side printed legends, reported by duynguyenle:



Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 10:32:00 »
There are people who seriously hate and avoid side prints tho (me) :)

It's like buying a BMW/Mercedes and spray painting stripes on the car
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Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 10:40:04 »
There are people who seriously hate and avoid side prints tho (me) :)

It's like buying a BMW/Mercedes and spray painting stripes on the car


I can understand the hate; however, I respectfully disagree that a decision based on hate only is a good one; we should agree that is an acceptable solution to minimize the key count if we want a low cost set. For me, that I should write in two more latin base languages, besides English, is the best solution. There may be some that are interested in that, for example, considering the set that ran in green on beige this year over MD it got enough support to reach MoQ, that showed us that there is some demand for such legends; however, pad printing on the top is a sub par option for durability, no matter how good GMK's pad printing is. Side printing could be the best of both worlds.


Again, it is a proposal, that if runs may be my definitely end game, the Alphas that may cover all my needs and happen to look cool.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 10:40:33 »
There are people who seriously hate and avoid side prints tho (me) :)

It's like buying a BMW/Mercedes and spray painting stripes on the car

Me too... I don't like so much side printing...

Thanks ideus for your continuous stream of suggestions, we almost always agree :-)

Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 10:41:19 »
There are people who seriously hate and avoid side prints tho (me) :)

It's like buying a BMW/Mercedes and spray painting stripes on the car

Me too... I don't like so much side printing...


Ok, I supose that is a final NO, thank you.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 10:48:21 »
There are people who seriously hate and avoid side prints tho (me) :)

It's like buying a BMW/Mercedes and spray painting stripes on the car

Me too... I don't like so much side printing...


Ok, I supose that is a final NO, thank you.

Sorry ideus, now I see that you've written a very long post that I'll evaluate the moment I turn on my pc.

I'm in talk with a potential group leader, so I'll talk about this with him. No final decision taken :-) ok?

Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #78 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 10:53:20 »
There are people who seriously hate and avoid side prints tho (me) :)

It's like buying a BMW/Mercedes and spray painting stripes on the car

Me too... I don't like so much side printing...


Ok, I supose that is a final NO, thank you.

Sorry ideus, now I see that you've written a very long post that I'll evaluate the moment I turn on my pc.

I'm in talk with a potential group leader, so I'll talk about this with him. No final decision taken :-) ok?


Great! I really think it may be a good solution to get a more inclusive, low cost Alpha set. Thank you for the answer.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #79 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 11:09:20 »
I think, with the positive attitude GMK has lately, they might reduce the MOQ for side printing, so even if we buy 150 sets in total, maybe, they might be willing to only side-print 50 of them

I also have the original GMK Dolch set, with side prints, and even though I love Dolch, I don't use those alphas, if one browses through the https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-retro-keycap-set/talk discussions, the side prints stop the show for other people too

Instead of paying less, for me, the better option is to not pay at all
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Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 20:09:57 »

I also have the original GMK Dolch set, with side prints, and even though I love Dolch, I don't use those alphas,



Please let me know if you are willing to sell the Dolch Alpha set with side printing.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 20:13:27 »

I also have the original GMK Dolch set, with side prints, and even though I love Dolch, I don't use those alphas,



Please let me know if you are willing to sell the Dolch Alpha set with side printing.

Don't have a paypal, otherwise, I have a lot of things to sell :)
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Offline ideus

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 25 November 2016, 20:17:45 »

I also have the original GMK Dolch set, with side prints, and even though I love Dolch, I don't use those alphas,



Please let me know if you are willing to sell the Dolch Alpha set with side printing.

Don't have a paypal, otherwise, I have a lot of things to sell :)


It is a shame, I would be very happy to take those keys out of your way, if you are not using them at all.

Offline poolside

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #83 on: Sat, 26 November 2016, 07:03:39 »
The R3 \| is actually very common, in my opinion, I don't know what R4 \| is for tho, for me, the R4 \| seems specialised and uncommon

US-International on an ISO board needs that additional R4 \| cap. This would be nice to have.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 11:15:52 »
The R3 \| is actually very common, in my opinion, I don't know what R4 \| is for tho, for me, the R4 \| seems specialised and uncommon

R4 pipe/backslash is a standard key on every ISO-UK sets. It's the one next to the left shift (same place as the <> key on ISO-DE)
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #85 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 11:29:04 »
The R3 \| is actually very common, in my opinion, I don't know what R4 \| is for tho, for me, the R4 \| seems specialised and uncommon

R4 pipe/backslash is a standard key on every ISO-UK sets. It's the one next to the left shift (same place as the <> key on ISO-DE)

Very interesting, admittedly, I never noticed, thanks for the info
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Offline TalkingTree

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 13:59:43 »
I believe F keys should be left out. They are mods after all.
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 27 November 2016, 14:05:20 »
I believe F keys should be left out. They are mods after all.

Makes sense, I personally don't use F-keys, and even if I did use, I would probably use the ones from other sets I have, to further mix and match things

GMK Retro has some nice all-gray F-keys for example, would've been nice to have them

I personally have 4-5 sets of Dolch F-keys

Assuming this GB is for people with a GMK addiction, I'm guessing F-keys will be in abundance
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Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 11:12:45 »
I believe F keys should be left out. They are mods after all.

Makes sense, I personally don't use F-keys, and even if I did use, I would probably use the ones from other sets I have, to further mix and match things

GMK Retro has some nice all-gray F-keys for example, would've been nice to have them

I personally have 4-5 sets of Dolch F-keys

Assuming this GB is for people with a GMK addiction, I'm guessing F-keys will be in abundance

F-keys are necessary! This isn't targeted only to 60% keyboards users...

Offline Giorgio

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 11:29:00 »
The R3 \| is actually very common, in my opinion, I don't know what R4 \| is for tho, for me, the R4 \| seems specialised and uncommon

R4 pipe/backslash is a standard key on every ISO-UK sets. It's the one next to the left shift (same place as the <> key on ISO-DE)

R4 <> appears in these layouts:
danish estonian faroese finnish german icelandic italian norwegian polish portuguese slovack spanish latin-american swedish


R4 \| appears in these layouts:
united kingdom, and iso international (?)

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 11:34:01 »
In for a set when this happens.  US ANSI/ISO user who codes.  My specific input:

 - Matching F-keys are needed.
 - ISO Enter with R3 |\ is optimum for pipes and escapes.
 - I have the ISO <> on some keyboards, but it mostly serves to cause errors when I reach for the L_Shift key.
 - 1u blanks or (even better) relegendables for all rows helps re-mapping and possibly localization.
 - Black on Beige is Best!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)

p.s. KHAANNN, I'd be happy to work something out with you re Fn keys, as my GH-122 eats them for lunch and dinner.
« Last Edit: Tue, 29 November 2016, 11:36:20 by samwisekoi »
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Offline Geroximo

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:14:16 »
Voted for the set with white lettering.
Most of the modifier sets I know have white lettering (Ivans purple mods, Bluelagoo, WoB Modifier set) so doing white lettered alphas would match the majority of modifier sets.

Offline sambarugh

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:20:09 »
This looks great but for the love of God don't waste it on a boring combo like grey on beige. Do something fun like MG1 on AE.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 14:17:37 »
I believe F keys should be left out. They are mods after all.

Makes sense, I personally don't use F-keys, and even if I did use, I would probably use the ones from other sets I have, to further mix and match things

GMK Retro has some nice all-gray F-keys for example, would've been nice to have them

I personally have 4-5 sets of Dolch F-keys

Assuming this GB is for people with a GMK addiction, I'm guessing F-keys will be in abundance

F-keys are necessary! This isn't targeted only to 60% keyboards users...

Yes, however, this set is for those who have existing GMK keycaps, and they also have existing F-row keys :)

samwisekoi, not possible currently, apologies :)
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Offline TalkingTree

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 14:32:30 »
If F keys are staying, then add them all.
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 14:41:37 »
If F keys are staying, then add them all.

If a neutral alpha color is selected, like gray, indeed this would make sense, I wouldn't use them, but I'm guessing, an all-gray uniform F-key line would be useful for all kinds of layouts

I was never a fan of the 2-tone F-key thing, it looks good, but sense-wise, it doesn't make much sense

------

Another thing, I had the impression Giorgio wanted orange on white keycaps, yet GMK Yuri seems to be an awesome source of orange on white alpha's, are the poll results in?
« Last Edit: Tue, 29 November 2016, 14:44:55 by KHAANNN »
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline Giorgio

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1846
  • Location: Italy
Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 15:27:30 »
If F keys are staying, then add them all.

If a neutral alpha color is selected, like gray, indeed this would make sense, I wouldn't use them, but I'm guessing, an all-gray uniform F-key line would be useful for all kinds of layouts

I was never a fan of the 2-tone F-key thing, it looks good, but sense-wise, it doesn't make much sense

------

Another thing, I had the impression Giorgio wanted orange on white keycaps, yet GMK Yuri seems to be an awesome source of orange on white alpha's, are the poll results in?

Nobody wants the orange on white :-(

Next week I'll publish the results

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1660
Re: GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 15:39:59 »
I don't think the poll would produce healthy results tho, the ordering matters, renders matters, and for my case, black on gray is the last with the worst rendering :)

A regular person would just mark the coffee set, since it's the first option, and the most flashy one
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline poolside

  • Posts: 790
  • Location: On the deck
Re: [IC] GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #98 on: Sun, 04 December 2016, 06:58:10 »
I chose the Soware option. I need matching alphas to pair with the Dolch Reborn cyan mods.

Offline PoisonKing

  • Posts: 94
  • Location: wkwk land
  • RIP wallet
Re: [IC] GMK alphas €49.5/set - POLL added
« Reply #99 on: Sun, 04 December 2016, 21:16:27 »
I need this. Voted for olivetti and soware  :thumb: