[GB] GMK Olivia++ | Orders Closed

[KingOfMemes]

Time for vendors to buy 5 digits of extras, or stock these sets frequently.

Not sure if you're being serious here...

Why the hell wouldn't I be? Does anyone seriously like waiting a year+ for keycaps or having a few seconds of a window to get an extra set? Does anyone seriously want to pay three times the price for something, EVER? This business model is outdated considering the growth of the hobby. It's time for people who have the ability to step up and make it better.

To answer your rhetorical questions, no, but what you're suggesting is not the answer. Buying as many extras as you suggest would mean vendors would have to spend millions of dollars (multiplied by however many sets they are running), then wait 9+ months to see any return. Considering most vendors are teams of a few people at most, I would imagine that it's not possible. Since the wait time is so long, vendors can't stock sets frequently either.

Yes you have to spend money to make money. You can't keep looking at these multi-team vendors shoveling people limited product as small, friendly teams. They are a business whos ultimate goal is to make money. Meeting consumer satisfaction should be their highest priority, and limited time sensitive product denies that. Novelkeys itself is capable of running an unlimited group buy on the NK65, which should amount easily to the thousands, and have started to purchase keysets outright to stock in their store. There is no reason for anyone to sit on their hands and expect this model to keep working, other than to keep inflating consumer interest in limited product to ensure they rush to get them "because, dear god if I don't buy this RIGHT NOW I'll only have 30 seconds in a year to get it or else I'm paying triple the price!", and creating a vapid hype machine that isn't a healthy mindset for a hobby to be directed in. I don't wait a year or pay triple for a specific coat of paint for my model car. I don't fight bots and other people for a specific color Gunpla detailing marker in a 3rd party aftermarket. These products are available to me and I am supplied them in a reasonable time frame and manner, and expecting this incredibly reasonable treatment in any hobby as a consumer should not be fantasy. Idly waiting by and making excuses that vendors can only do so much cuts the hobby at the knees.

I think everything you are saying is logically correct and sound, but I thought we were all on the same page that this hobby is supposed to be a vapid hype machine. Vendors are businesses, so they should be treated like them. You, and me, and everyone who is not a vendor is a wallet with money, and are treated as such by vendors.

From a business stand point it makes more sense to just GB these hype sets, markup a minimal amount of extras, and keep that hype machine pumping.

That sounds like a terrible way to spend my time, and that was not the impression I was personally given when delving deeper into the hobby. I found a builders hobby that had seemingly unlimited personalization potential, and even more as you learn 3d modeling and dabble into engineering. It can be argued that flashy colored keysets are only a fraction of what I am capable of experiencing, but denying the people that have chosen to use these colors to personalize their keyboard and make something that is truly theirs the experience of a hobby that has normal and trusted consumer practices is heartbreaking. I personally do not want to sit back and accept that vendors can keep running anti-consumer business models. They have the ability to change into something familiar to most other people who have been in a hobby before, and choosing not to do so is greed and manipulation.

I, again, agree and share the similar experiences, but I also think this hobby has grown too big to not be a consumerist focused experience. Greed and manipulation are just par for the course when something gets big enough to make a buck off of. It's the tradeoff for quicker and more content in the hobby, such as the jubilee of switches, keycaps, etc. Back in the day there was nowhere near the amount of production that is coming out of this hobby. I guess my point is that having this hobby being more about customization/experimentation than about following hype trains was doomed when the community was set to grow as much as it did.

[nices]

Time for vendors to buy 5 digits of extras, or stock these sets frequently.

Not sure if you're being serious here...

Why the hell wouldn't I be? Does anyone seriously like waiting a year+ for keycaps or having a few seconds of a window to get an extra set? Does anyone seriously want to pay three times the price for something, EVER? This business model is outdated considering the growth of the hobby. It's time for people who have the ability to step up and make it better.

To answer your rhetorical questions, no, but what you're suggesting is not the answer. Buying as many extras as you suggest would mean vendors would have to spend millions of dollars (multiplied by however many sets they are running), then wait 9+ months to see any return. Considering most vendors are teams of a few people at most, I would imagine that it's not possible. Since the wait time is so long, vendors can't stock sets frequently either.

Yes you have to spend money to make money. You can't keep looking at these multi-team vendors shoveling people limited product as small, friendly teams. They are a business whos ultimate goal is to make money. Meeting consumer satisfaction should be their highest priority, and limited time sensitive product denies that. Novelkeys itself is capable of running an unlimited group buy on the NK65, which should amount easily to the thousands, and have started to purchase keysets outright to stock in their store. There is no reason for anyone to sit on their hands and expect this model to keep working, other than to keep inflating consumer interest in limited product to ensure they rush to get them "because, dear god if I don't buy this RIGHT NOW I'll only have 30 seconds in a year to get it or else I'm paying triple the price!", and creating a vapid hype machine that isn't a healthy mindset for a hobby to be directed in. I don't wait a year or pay triple for a specific coat of paint for my model car. I don't fight bots and other people for a specific color Gunpla detailing marker in a 3rd party aftermarket. These products are available to me and I am supplied them in a reasonable time frame and manner, and expecting this incredibly reasonable treatment in any hobby as a consumer should not be fantasy. Idly waiting by and making excuses that vendors can only do so much cuts the hobby at the knees.

I think everything you are saying is logically correct and sound, but I thought we were all on the same page that this hobby is supposed to be a vapid hype machine. Vendors are businesses, so they should be treated like them. You, and me, and everyone who is not a vendor is a wallet with money, and are treated as such by vendors.

From a business stand point it makes more sense to just GB these hype sets, markup a minimal amount of extras, and keep that hype machine pumping.

That sounds like a terrible way to spend my time, and that was not the impression I was personally given when delving deeper into the hobby. I found a builders hobby that had seemingly unlimited personalization potential, and even more as you learn 3d modeling and dabble into engineering. It can be argued that flashy colored keysets are only a fraction of what I am capable of experiencing, but denying the people that have chosen to use these colors to personalize their keyboard and make something that is truly theirs the experience of a hobby that has normal and trusted consumer practices is heartbreaking. I personally do not want to sit back and accept that vendors can keep running anti-consumer business models. They have the ability to change into something familiar to most other people who have been in a hobby before, and choosing not to do so is greed and manipulation.

absolutely agree.

[mgsickler]

Why the hell wouldn't I be? Does anyone seriously like waiting a year+ for keycaps or having a few seconds of a window to get an extra set? Does anyone seriously want to pay three times the price for something, EVER? This business model is outdated considering the growth of the hobby. It's time for people who have the ability to step up and make it better.

I am on mobile, so I am sorry for formatting or typos here. To quickly answer your question though.

It is not possible to predict the future. You are talking about ordering 10,000’s of sets to sit on not making any of that money back for almost a year. While we try to predict and increase growth it is impossible to order that amount without being able to make any money back on that. You are seriously talkings about million dollar purchases like they are nothing. Even for well developed businesses, that would be a huge expenditure.

With Metropolis, we ordered over 300 base kits of extras. We sat on those extras for over 2 months. With Olivia++ we had over 1,000 base kits. We invested more than we have ever before with an order. It took 9 months to get the keycaps in. In that time, the community has grown (again not something that is easily able to be predicted).

The main issue with this concern is GMK’s lead time. Even if we directly ordered right now for any set, we still have over a 35 week lead time, for an order that is required to be paid up front. This amount for a single transaction is not conducive to growing a business. This is exactly the reason I have been exploring other keycap sets and trying to keep them in stock. And we have more in stock sets coming soon - just not GMK.

Until GMK can give lead times of 8-10 weeks again, this model will continue the way that it is.

[Kokaloo]

Why the hell wouldn't I be? Does anyone seriously like waiting a year+ for keycaps or having a few seconds of a window to get an extra set? Does anyone seriously want to pay three times the price for something, EVER? This business model is outdated considering the growth of the hobby. It's time for people who have the ability to step up and make it better.

I am on mobile, so I am sorry for formatting or typos here. To quickly answer your question though.

It is not possible to predict the future. You are talking about ordering 10,000’s of sets to sit on not making any of that money back for almost a year. While we try to predict and increase growth it is impossible to order that amount without being able to make any money back on that. You are seriously talkings about million dollar purchases like they are nothing. Even for well developed businesses, that would be a huge expenditure.

With Metropolis, we ordered over 300 base kits of extras. We sat on those extras for over 2 months. With Olivia++ we had over 1,000 base kits. We invested more than we have ever before with an order. It took 9 months to get the keycaps in. In that time, the community has grown (again not something that is easily able to be predicted).

The main issue with this concern is GMK’s lead time. Even if we directly ordered right now for any set, we still have over a 35 week lead time, for an order that is required to be paid up front. This amount for a single transaction is not conducive to growing a business. This is exactly the reason I have been exploring other keycap sets and trying to keep them in stock. And we have more in stock sets coming soon - just not GMK.

Until GMK can give lead times of 8-10 weeks again, this model will continue the way that it is.

Buying keycap sets to instock is what I feel is key moving forward and I did commend you on that before. A lot of what I feel you're trying to convey is that GMK can not possibly keep up with this kind of demand, and that moving forward (especially based on the way you're moving other keycap product into your store) they might not be the best option for the hobby. I don't think it's very fair to regard one manufacturer as the end all be all to keycap premiums, especially when all I see from vendors is they feel their business needs are not being met by GMK. I really hope Novelpro does eventually come along, and can either create a smaller time frame from people giving money to receiving their product, or straight up in stocking product that you and other vendors are in complete control of. That is the future I would like to see.

[higgga]

Why the hell wouldn't I be? Does anyone seriously like waiting a year+ for keycaps or having a few seconds of a window to get an extra set? Does anyone seriously want to pay three times the price for something, EVER? This business model is outdated considering the growth of the hobby. It's time for people who have the ability to step up and make it better.

I am on mobile, so I am sorry for formatting or typos here. To quickly answer your question though.

It is not possible to predict the future. You are talking about ordering 10,000’s of sets to sit on not making any of that money back for almost a year. While we try to predict and increase growth it is impossible to order that amount without being able to make any money back on that. You are seriously talkings about million dollar purchases like they are nothing. Even for well developed businesses, that would be a huge expenditure.

With Metropolis, we ordered over 300 base kits of extras. We sat on those extras for over 2 months. With Olivia++ we had over 1,000 base kits. We invested more than we have ever before with an order. It took 9 months to get the keycaps in. In that time, the community has grown (again not something that is easily able to be predicted).

The main issue with this concern is GMK’s lead time. Even if we directly ordered right now for any set, we still have over a 35 week lead time, for an order that is required to be paid up front. This amount for a single transaction is not conducive to growing a business. This is exactly the reason I have been exploring other keycap sets and trying to keep them in stock. And we have more in stock sets coming soon - just not GMK.

Until GMK can give lead times of 8-10 weeks again, this model will continue the way that it is.

Buying keycap sets to instock is what I feel is key moving forward and I did commend you on that before. A lot of what I feel you're trying to convey is that GMK can not possibly keep up with this kind of demand, and that moving forward (especially based on the way you're moving other keycap product into your store) they might not be the best option for the hobby. I don't think it's very fair to regard one manufacturer as the end all be all to keycap premiums, especially when all I see from vendors is they feel their business needs are not being met by GMK. I really hope Novelpro does eventually come along, and can either create a smaller time frame from people giving money to receiving their product, or straight up in stocking product that you and other vendors are in complete control of. That is the future I would like to see.

Why does it have to be so all or nothing? If GMK doesn't operate how you like, you can get other caps. There are still plenty of people that want GMK, so I don't see why vendors shouldn't be ordering from them. tbh, it sounds like your issue is more with GMK than any vendor.

[DukeEsquire]

Everyone ready to pounce on vendor when something sells out, but no one is stepping up to buy-out in stock inventory items.

The fact of the matter is NovelKeys could have made much more money by selling the sellers on /r/mm, but they didn't. Novelkeys should be pricing items based on what they are worth rather than pricing everything at the exact same price whether it's GMK Metropolis (low demand) or GMK Olivia (high demand).

[briantotheyanyan]

Everyone ready to pounce on vendor when something sells out, but no one is stepping up to buy-out in stock inventory items.

The fact of the matter is NovelKeys could have made much more money by selling the sellers on /r/mm, but they didn't. Novelkeys should be pricing items based on what they are worth rather than pricing everything at the exact same price whether it's GMK Metropolis (low demand) or GMK Olivia (high demand).

And then when this happens, people will still complain that the price has gone up and that will get vendors like Novelkeys into more crap for price gouging. It's a no-win situation for them. Either they sell it at a price that doesn't piss people off but causes shortages like this, or they bump up the price and garner ill will which may make them lose the business of customers going forward who are angry about it.

I am pretty dang grateful that we have someone in this community who's willing to help the community grow and make things accessible despite the crap that people give them sometimes on these forums. Novelkeys has certainly made it significantly easier for someone like me to get into custom mechanical keyboards over the past year.

[_PixelNinja]

The issue isn't Novelkeys, it's some people not being able to act like adults when they can't get what they want.

[MoarCoffeePlzzz]

Just participate in the group buy, you wont have to worry about going for extras and it will be cheaper. Stop blaming vendors for not spending more of their money to benefit you. Your entitled to the same chance as all of us to grab any set. If you got into the hobby after Olivia was launched or it was something you thought you didn't want but do now then welcome to the club -- we've all been there.

[prognostics]

Just participate in the group buy, you wont have to worry about going for extras and it will be cheaper. Stop blaming vendors for not spending more of their money to benefit you. Your entitled to the same chance as all of us to grab any set. If you got into the hobby after Olivia was launched or it was something you thought you didn't want but do now then welcome to the club -- we've all been there.

Some people in this thread, even

I live for the day NK_ doesn't have to apologize after a product release

[KingOfMemes]

Just participate in the group buy, you wont have to worry about going for extras and it will be cheaper. Stop blaming vendors for not spending more of their money to benefit you. Your entitled to the same chance as all of us to grab any set. If you got into the hobby after Olivia was launched or it was something you thought you didn't want but do now then welcome to the club -- we've all been there.

This is the real answer here. Help out the MOQ, don't just ride the coat tails. Plus, there are plenty of people selling on the market. Just pick up a set from them if you are that desperate. Nobody owes anything to anyone

[gbenz]

I mean, if the demand is really high then they can also do an R2 some time in the future

[briantotheyanyan]

I mean, if the demand is really high then they can also do an R2 some time in the future

This was R2. 

[NoteMakoti]

I mean, if the demand is really high then they can also do an R2 some time in the future

This was R2. 

There's probably gonna be an R3 by the end of the year.

[DukeEsquire]

Remember all the hate that Olivia got when they announced Olivia++? It was so bad that they had to lock the IC thread.

This community can be super toxic.

[KingOfMemes]

Remember all the hate that Olivia got when they announced Olivia++? It was so bad that they had to lock the IC thread.

This community can be super toxic.

That was about the kitting not including the international kit, which I kinda get now. The International kit isn't free profit like the other kits. It's way better to keep the kits standardized to max the profits. I think the same can be said about the idea of stocking kits for sale. Vendors aren't here to take hits for people. They are here to make a buck, and it's not fair to ask them to do otherwise.

[DukeEsquire]

Remember all the hate that Olivia got when they announced Olivia++? It was so bad that they had to lock the IC thread.

This community can be super toxic.

That was about the kitting not including the international kit, which I kinda get now. The International kit isn't free profit like the other kits. It's way better to keep the kits standardized to max the profits. I think the same can be said about the idea of stocking kits for sale. Vendors aren't here to take hits for people. They are here to make a buck, and it's not fair to ask them to do otherwise.

And lack of support for Minivan.

[KingOfMemes]

Remember all the hate that Olivia got when they announced Olivia++? It was so bad that they had to lock the IC thread.

This community can be super toxic.

That was about the kitting not including the international kit, which I kinda get now. The International kit isn't free profit like the other kits. It's way better to keep the kits standardized to max the profits. I think the same can be said about the idea of stocking kits for sale. Vendors aren't here to take hits for people. They are here to make a buck, and it's not fair to ask them to do otherwise.

And lack of support for Minivan.

LOL Oh yeah, I forgot about the boycott drama

[DukeEsquire]

Remember all the hate that Olivia got when they announced Olivia++? It was so bad that they had to lock the IC thread.

This community can be super toxic.

That was about the kitting not including the international kit, which I kinda get now. The International kit isn't free profit like the other kits. It's way better to keep the kits standardized to max the profits. I think the same can be said about the idea of stocking kits for sale. Vendors aren't here to take hits for people. They are here to make a buck, and it's not fair to ask them to do otherwise.

And lack of support for Minivan.

LOL Oh yeah, I forgot about the boycott drama

I wonder how many people that "boycotted" the GB are now complaining about the difficulty in buying extras.

[stevenT]

Just participate in the group buy, you wont have to worry about going for extras and it will be cheaper. Stop blaming vendors for not spending more of their money to benefit you. Your entitled to the same chance as all of us to grab any set. If you got into the hobby after Olivia was launched or it was something you thought you didn't want but do now then welcome to the club -- we've all been there.

true

[Puddsy]

I mean, if the demand is really high then they can also do an R2 some time in the future

R3*

[Puddsy]

this stupid website double posted my fire meme, ignore this post

[Domantas]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

[KingOfMemes]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

I mean, if vendors didn't think this was going to be hype, they wouldn't have bought like 1k extra kits on the last day of the buy, even after all kits met MOQ. I'm not suggesting vendors should attempt instock sales, or even that they should have bought more kits with or without hindsight, but they knew this set was going to be hype out of this world. We all did lol. I personally think that it's important to remember that you have to feed the hype machine by NOT doing things like unlimited stocking stuff like this. This isn't new to mechs. Streetwear, sneakers, EDC, tech... this same business practice still works, and has worked for years outside (and maybe inside) this hobby. People gotta stay thirsty.

[zoomwalt]

Why the hell wouldn't I be? Does anyone seriously like waiting a year+ for keycaps or having a few seconds of a window to get an extra set? Does anyone seriously want to pay three times the price for something, EVER? This business model is outdated considering the growth of the hobby. It's time for people who have the ability to step up and make it better.

I am on mobile, so I am sorry for formatting or typos here. To quickly answer your question though.

It is not possible to predict the future. You are talking about ordering 10,000’s of sets to sit on not making any of that money back for almost a year. While we try to predict and increase growth it is impossible to order that amount without being able to make any money back on that. You are seriously talkings about million dollar purchases like they are nothing. Even for well developed businesses, that would be a huge expenditure.

With Metropolis, we ordered over 300 base kits of extras. We sat on those extras for over 2 months. With Olivia++ we had over 1,000 base kits. We invested more than we have ever before with an order. It took 9 months to get the keycaps in. In that time, the community has grown (again not something that is easily able to be predicted).

The main issue with this concern is GMK’s lead time. Even if we directly ordered right now for any set, we still have over a 35 week lead time, for an order that is required to be paid up front. This amount for a single transaction is not conducive to growing a business. This is exactly the reason I have been exploring other keycap sets and trying to keep them in stock. And we have more in stock sets coming soon - just not GMK.

Until GMK can give lead times of 8-10 weeks again, this model will continue the way that it is.

Buying keycap sets to instock is what I feel is key moving forward and I did commend you on that before. A lot of what I feel you're trying to convey is that GMK can not possibly keep up with this kind of demand, and that moving forward (especially based on the way you're moving other keycap product into your store) they might not be the best option for the hobby. I don't think it's very fair to regard one manufacturer as the end all be all to keycap premiums, especially when all I see from vendors is they feel their business needs are not being met by GMK. I really hope Novelpro does eventually come along, and can either create a smaller time frame from people giving money to receiving their product, or straight up in stocking product that you and other vendors are in complete control of. That is the future I would like to see.

If you want to buy in-stock GMK sets, then head over to Originative.

[DukeEsquire]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

I mean, if vendors didn't think this was going to be hype, they wouldn't have bought like 1k extra kits on the last day of the buy, even after all kits met MOQ. I'm not suggesting vendors should attempt instock sales, or even that they should have bought more kits with or without hindsight, but they knew this set was going to be hype out of this world. We all did lol. I personally think that it's important to remember that you have to feed the hype machine by NOT doing things like unlimited stocking stuff like this. This isn't new to mechs. Streetwear, sneakers, EDC, tech... this same business practice still works, and has worked for years outside (and maybe inside) this hobby. People gotta stay thirsty.

Novelkey's only mistake was not selling extras at a higher price.

[DukeEsquire]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

I wonder if people remember that it took a few days for GMK Striker extras to sell out?

[KingOfMemes]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

I mean, if vendors didn't think this was going to be hype, they wouldn't have bought like 1k extra kits on the last day of the buy, even after all kits met MOQ. I'm not suggesting vendors should attempt instock sales, or even that they should have bought more kits with or without hindsight, but they knew this set was going to be hype out of this world. We all did lol. I personally think that it's important to remember that you have to feed the hype machine by NOT doing things like unlimited stocking stuff like this. This isn't new to mechs. Streetwear, sneakers, EDC, tech... this same business practice still works, and has worked for years outside (and maybe inside) this hobby. People gotta stay thirsty.

Novelkey's only mistake was not selling extras at a higher price.

I concur, but I think we'll see prices rise for extras. Olivia base kit extras where at a 65% markup, but I'm pretty sure KAT milkshake was like 35% markup. I think they are feeling it out and moving the price up slowly. If they jump prices too quickly people will ***** about them like they do scalpers that aren't vendors. Move the needle slowly and nobody will notice.

[DukeEsquire]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

I mean, if vendors didn't think this was going to be hype, they wouldn't have bought like 1k extra kits on the last day of the buy, even after all kits met MOQ. I'm not suggesting vendors should attempt instock sales, or even that they should have bought more kits with or without hindsight, but they knew this set was going to be hype out of this world. We all did lol. I personally think that it's important to remember that you have to feed the hype machine by NOT doing things like unlimited stocking stuff like this. This isn't new to mechs. Streetwear, sneakers, EDC, tech... this same business practice still works, and has worked for years outside (and maybe inside) this hobby. People gotta stay thirsty.

Novelkey's only mistake was not selling extras at a higher price.

I concur, but I think we'll see prices rise for extras. Olivia base kit extras where at a 65% markup, but I'm pretty sure KAT milkshake was like 35% markup. I think they are feeling it out and moving the price up slowly. If they jump prices too quickly people will ***** about them like they do scalpers that aren't vendors. Move the needle slowly and nobody will notice.

They price GMK and KAT differently. They've been pretty consistent with their GMK extra pricing if I recall.

[yicaoyimu]

So much salt under this thread 

[lvl2cow]

Time for vendors to buy 5 digits of extras, or stock these sets frequently.

Not sure if you're being serious here...

Why the hell wouldn't I be? Does anyone seriously like waiting a year+ for keycaps or having a few seconds of a window to get an extra set? Does anyone seriously want to pay three times the price for something, EVER? This business model is outdated considering the growth of the hobby. It's time for people who have the ability to step up and make it better.

To answer your rhetorical questions, no, but what you're suggesting is not the answer. Buying as many extras as you suggest would mean vendors would have to spend millions of dollars (multiplied by however many sets they are running), then wait 9+ months to see any return. Considering most vendors are teams of a few people at most, I would imagine that it's not possible. Since the wait time is so long, vendors can't stock sets frequently either.

Yes you have to spend money to make money. You can't keep looking at these multi-team vendors shoveling people limited product as small, friendly teams. They are a business whos ultimate goal is to make money. Meeting consumer satisfaction should be their highest priority, and limited time sensitive product denies that. Novelkeys itself is capable of running an unlimited group buy on the NK65, which should amount easily to the thousands, and have started to purchase keysets outright to stock in their store. There is no reason for anyone to sit on their hands and expect this model to keep working, other than to keep inflating consumer interest in limited product to ensure they rush to get them "because, dear god if I don't buy this RIGHT NOW I'll only have 30 seconds in a year to get it or else I'm paying triple the price!", and creating a vapid hype machine that isn't a healthy mindset for a hobby to be directed in. I don't wait a year or pay triple for a specific coat of paint for my model car. I don't fight bots and other people for a specific color Gunpla detailing marker in a 3rd party aftermarket. These products are available to me and I am supplied them in a reasonable time frame and manner, and expecting this incredibly reasonable treatment in any hobby as a consumer should not be fantasy. Idly waiting by and making excuses that vendors can only do so much cuts the hobby at the knees.

I think everything you are saying is logically correct and sound, but I thought we were all on the same page that this hobby is supposed to be a vapid hype machine. Vendors are businesses, so they should be treated like them. You, and me, and everyone who is not a vendor is a wallet with money, and are treated as such by vendors.

From a business stand point it makes more sense to just GB these hype sets, markup a minimal amount of extras, and keep that hype machine pumping.

That sounds like a terrible way to spend my time, and that was not the impression I was personally given when delving deeper into the hobby. I found a builders hobby that had seemingly unlimited personalization potential, and even more as you learn 3d modeling and dabble into engineering. It can be argued that flashy colored keysets are only a fraction of what I am capable of experiencing, but denying the people that have chosen to use these colors to personalize their keyboard and make something that is truly theirs the experience of a hobby that has normal and trusted consumer practices is heartbreaking. I personally do not want to sit back and accept that vendors can keep running anti-consumer business models. They have the ability to change into something familiar to most other people who have been in a hobby before, and choosing not to do so is greed and manipulation.

absolutely agree.

i also completely agree.

[tngpq]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

I mean, if vendors didn't think this was going to be hype, they wouldn't have bought like 1k extra kits on the last day of the buy, even after all kits met MOQ. I'm not suggesting vendors should attempt instock sales, or even that they should have bought more kits with or without hindsight, but they knew this set was going to be hype out of this world. We all did lol. I personally think that it's important to remember that you have to feed the hype machine by NOT doing things like unlimited stocking stuff like this. This isn't new to mechs. Streetwear, sneakers, EDC, tech... this same business practice still works, and has worked for years outside (and maybe inside) this hobby. People gotta stay thirsty.

Novelkey's only mistake was not selling extras at a higher price.

I concur, but I think we'll see prices rise for extras. Olivia base kit extras where at a 65% markup, but I'm pretty sure KAT milkshake was like 35% markup. I think they are feeling it out and moving the price up slowly. If they jump prices too quickly people will ***** about them like they do scalpers that aren't vendors. Move the needle slowly and nobody will notice.

They price GMK and KAT differently. They've been pretty consistent with their GMK extra pricing if I recall.

I would say NK has been fair in their GMK extra pricing. Olivia base extra was $170 with a 54% markup from $110 retail. In comparison, Froyo base extra which sat for a while was $175 at a 29% markup from $135 retail.

[DukeEsquire]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

I mean, if vendors didn't think this was going to be hype, they wouldn't have bought like 1k extra kits on the last day of the buy, even after all kits met MOQ. I'm not suggesting vendors should attempt instock sales, or even that they should have bought more kits with or without hindsight, but they knew this set was going to be hype out of this world. We all did lol. I personally think that it's important to remember that you have to feed the hype machine by NOT doing things like unlimited stocking stuff like this. This isn't new to mechs. Streetwear, sneakers, EDC, tech... this same business practice still works, and has worked for years outside (and maybe inside) this hobby. People gotta stay thirsty.

Novelkey's only mistake was not selling extras at a higher price.

I concur, but I think we'll see prices rise for extras. Olivia base kit extras where at a 65% markup, but I'm pretty sure KAT milkshake was like 35% markup. I think they are feeling it out and moving the price up slowly. If they jump prices too quickly people will ***** about them like they do scalpers that aren't vendors. Move the needle slowly and nobody will notice.

They price GMK and KAT differently. They've been pretty consistent with their GMK extra pricing if I recall.

I would say NK has been fair in their GMK extra pricing. Olivia base extra was $170 with a 54% markup from $110 retail. In comparison, Froyo base extra which sat for a while was $175 at a 29% markup from $135 retail.

Weird that you call $110 "retail". $110 was the GB price. $170 is retail.

[tngpq]

Extras are hard to get. Also vendors don't know what will be "hyped". Yeah they could predict gmk olivia++ to be high demand because it is like all time in demand (like gmk striker (credits to tfue), gmk mizu (credits to taeha XD), gmk lazer (credits to drop and all youtubers) or as for off topic example holy panda (credits to brian and drop)), but they probably want controllable quantities, because they sell not only olivia++. So the only one who can do that is drop, but drop is greedy and don't share sets with proxies

I mean, if vendors didn't think this was going to be hype, they wouldn't have bought like 1k extra kits on the last day of the buy, even after all kits met MOQ. I'm not suggesting vendors should attempt instock sales, or even that they should have bought more kits with or without hindsight, but they knew this set was going to be hype out of this world. We all did lol. I personally think that it's important to remember that you have to feed the hype machine by NOT doing things like unlimited stocking stuff like this. This isn't new to mechs. Streetwear, sneakers, EDC, tech... this same business practice still works, and has worked for years outside (and maybe inside) this hobby. People gotta stay thirsty.

Novelkey's only mistake was not selling extras at a higher price.

I concur, but I think we'll see prices rise for extras. Olivia base kit extras where at a 65% markup, but I'm pretty sure KAT milkshake was like 35% markup. I think they are feeling it out and moving the price up slowly. If they jump prices too quickly people will ***** about them like they do scalpers that aren't vendors. Move the needle slowly and nobody will notice.

They price GMK and KAT differently. They've been pretty consistent with their GMK extra pricing if I recall.

I would say NK has been fair in their GMK extra pricing. Olivia base extra was $170 with a 54% markup from $110 retail. In comparison, Froyo base extra which sat for a while was $175 at a 29% markup from $135 retail.

Weird that you call $110 "retail". $110 was the GB price. $170 is retail.

Whatever you want to call, doesn't make a difference. smh.

[itskuroi]

Makes a $60 difference yo

[zoomwalt]

Makes a $60 difference yo

Yo. You need to realize that when it takes 35 weeks for GMK to produce something, then their inventory turnover is less than 2 per year. By comparison, a retailer like Target turns inventory 6 times per year. To compensate for the low inventory turnover (i.e. having capital tied up in an asset you can't sell readily because GMK production lines are backed up), the have to instead charge a higher price.

[yicaoyimu]

How dare NK make so much profit from their investment





/s

[KingOfMemes]

How dare NK make so much profit from their investment





/s

I don't think anyone suggest NK shouldn't benefit from their investment... but this is just making @Kokaloo correct. This is business first, community second. I have no dog in the fight. If I were running NK I would have charged more than they did for extras lol so far be it from me to attempt to get up on some fake highhorse. People should be aware that this is how the community operates, though.

[DukeEsquire]

How dare NK make so much profit from their investment





/s

I don't think anyone suggest NK shouldn't benefit from their investment... but this is just making @Kokaloo correct. This is business first, community second. I have no dog in the fight. If I were running NK I would have charged more than they did for extras lol so far be it from me to attempt to get up on some fake highhorse. People should be aware that this is how the community operates, though.

Plenty of people suggest NK shouldn't benefit from their investment. You'll see people on this thread complaining about the "markup".

[Rumblehotep]

Apparently zfrontier will have some extras of Olivia++ for sale at 9am PDT tomorrow for those still looking for a set.

[Kokaloo]

Just participate in the group buy, you wont have to worry about going for extras and it will be cheaper. Stop blaming vendors for not spending more of their money to benefit you. Your entitled to the same chance as all of us to grab any set. If you got into the hobby after Olivia was launched or it was something you thought you didn't want but do now then welcome to the club -- we've all been there.

Well for someone who doesn't have a problem taking advantage of people wanting things by selling them to them at higher prices, even going as far as abusing your power as a moderator in a selling forum, I can understand why you would want nothing to change. Businesses spending more money to supply more people with more things that they want sounds like a all around good thing for most people. I fail to see how others accepting they have to suffer because you did is gonna keep people around or interested. If you wouldn't mind elaborating on why you feel businesses providing more product for the community is bad, I would love to hear it!

[JFAK3]

A simple fix would be to list the extras for sale after the group buy period closes. If you pre-buy 500 extras, list the sets and adjust the price to the $180 "in-stock" price. The extras become a fcfs and you will recoup your investment notably sooner.

Consumers get the fcfs aspect and vendors get $'s notably sooner. All the drama off a 30 second extras sale goes away.

[pixelpusher]

Apparently zfrontier will have some extras of Olivia++ for sale at 9am PDT tomorrow for those still looking for a set.

You hush. 

[DukeEsquire]

Just participate in the group buy, you wont have to worry about going for extras and it will be cheaper. Stop blaming vendors for not spending more of their money to benefit you. Your entitled to the same chance as all of us to grab any set. If you got into the hobby after Olivia was launched or it was something you thought you didn't want but do now then welcome to the club -- we've all been there.

Well for someone who doesn't have a problem taking advantage of people wanting things by selling them to them at higher prices, even going as far as abusing your power as a moderator in a selling forum, I can understand why you would want nothing to change. Businesses spending more money to supply more people with more things that they want sounds like a all around good thing for most people. I fail to see how others accepting they have to suffer because you did is gonna keep people around or interested. If you wouldn't mind elaborating on why you feel businesses providing more product for the community is bad, I would love to hear it!

Oof, imagine calling it "suffer" when someone didn't participate in a group buy for keycaps.

[Extraxyz]

Just participate in the group buy, you wont have to worry about going for extras and it will be cheaper. Stop blaming vendors for not spending more of their money to benefit you. Your entitled to the same chance as all of us to grab any set. If you got into the hobby after Olivia was launched or it was something you thought you didn't want but do now then welcome to the club -- we've all been there.

Well for someone who doesn't have a problem taking advantage of people wanting things by selling them to them at higher prices, even going as far as abusing your power as a moderator in a selling forum, I can understand why you would want nothing to change. Businesses spending more money to supply more people with more things that they want sounds like a all around good thing for most people. I fail to see how others accepting they have to suffer because you did is gonna keep people around or interested. If you wouldn't mind elaborating on why you feel businesses providing more product for the community is bad, I would love to hear it!

Suffering:
- Not having food or clean water
- Being chronically ill
- Missing out on last-years groupbuy for plastic keycaps you couldn't care less about until 2 weeks ago

[Domantas]

I see dixie made a move about 9009 spacebars, but what about olivia++, cafe spacebars ?

[mgsickler]

I see dixie made a move about 9009 spacebars, but what about olivia++, cafe spacebars ?

We will follow up with GMK about this, as we have not been told anything about that yet. We also do not know anything about Cafe.

[Domantas]

I see dixie made a move about 9009 spacebars, but what about olivia++, cafe spacebars ?

We will follow up with GMK about this, as we have not been told anything about that yet. We also do not know anything about Cafe.

Oh, okay. Thanks for info

[cicatriz]

Apparently zfrontier will have some extras of Olivia++ for sale at 9am PDT tomorrow for those still looking for a set.

How do people even buy that quickly? By the time I got to check out it was all sold out. Bots op.

[verity]

Apparently zfrontier will have some extras of Olivia++ for sale at 9am PDT tomorrow for those still looking for a set.

How do people even buy that quickly? By the time I got to check out it was all sold out. Bots op.

I had no trouble picking up a Light Base. Just used shop pay and was on the site when the extras dropped.