The Silent yet High Performance Z170 build: Advice?

[iLLucionist]

I finally have the "courage" (pun intended) to jump, seeing HOW MUCH MORE performance money can buy in the PC world compared to Macs (I'll compare below).

What you guys think of this build? I'll make a hackintosh out of it, run win7 for games (never MS Spy 10) and perhaps linux for funz (probably in a VM though). Main focus is programming, VMs and Adobe Lightroom + Photoshop for editing those 24MP raws.

Extreme silence:

PC Case: Fractal Design R5 Blackout (silent and sturdy, with dampening)
Case Fans: 3x Noctua NF-A14 PWM with low-noise adapter (optimum airflow vs noise, near silent on idle and light work)
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-D15 (super silent and will fit, did research)
PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 650W P2 (almost inaudabile and 94% efficiency for this system that peaks around 450 Watt)

High performance:

Motherboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero (light overlock CPU 4-4.2 GHz to 4.7 GHz, support for NVMe and M.2)
CPU: Intel 6700k (quad core, 4 GHz)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 4x16 64 GB Total 2666 MHZ (auto overlock, not dependent on BIOS for that)
GPU: Asus Strix GTX 970 DC2 OC 4GB (very fast but dead silent for light work and idle)

Fast storage:

Boot drive: Samsung Pro 950 512 GB NVME (should work?? piker patch + kext on efi boot drive??)
Extra storage: Samsung 850 Pro sata 600 1 TB

Compared to macs:

This build is 6700K 4 Ghz, 64 GB, 1.5 TB SSD, 970 GTX 4GB and costs around 2400 euro's

Closest 15" Retina MacBook Pro: TurboBoost up to 4 Ghz, 16 GB, 1 TB SSD, Radeon R9 M370X 2 GB costs 3600 euro's

Closest 27" Retina iMac 5K: 4 Ghz with 4.2 Ghz TurboBoost, 32 GB, 1 TB SSD, Radeon R9 M395X 4GB costs 4790 euro's

Closest Mac "Trashcan" Pro (not fair given Xeon and ECC mem, though): Base 3.7 Quad Core Xeon, 64 GB mem, 1 TB SSD, Base Two FirePro D300's with 2 GB vram each costs 5969

My point of this comparison is: my build costs around 2400 euro's, closest is the 27" Retina iMac of around 4790 euro's which is almost 2x as expensive and still has comparatively crappy graphics, less storage and half the memory.

So what do you guys think of this build?

---

Full disclosure: crossposted on tonymac for advice on hackintosh compatibility with 10.11/10.12

[tp4tissue]

DO NOT buy noctua fans.. NOT WORTH THE MONEY if you're after SILENCE..

Because True silence comes from LOW rpm @ 700-900rpm ,  ALL FANS regardless of aero-optimizations perform about the same at those speeds..

Sleeve bearing is the most quiet. hydro bearing that the noctua uses, is the same as sleeve bearings only it has channels cut into it for oil flow , This makes 0 freaking difference when fans are at low rpm.. NOCTUA = waste

So, how do we cool...

BIG ASS AIR COOLER   +    Run OPEN Chassis..


No matter what you do,  if you run a system with a noctua + closed chassis, it will be significantly louder than Cheapo fans running open Chassis @ 700-900 rpm


As for GPU,   The only way to get silence out of them is to bolt on a CPU 120mm tower..   even the cheapest 120mm cpu cooler will be enough for the highest end gpu..

You may have to do some cutting to make it fit with your base gpu cooling plate which covers the Vram and Power Mosfets.



I can't say this enough.. the SILENCE from a Noctua build is BULL ****..   it's silent relative to G4m3r-dude's 20 x 3000rpm fan build..

OVERALL,  all noctua builds I've heard are still WAY WAY louder than my personal openchassis builds..

Open chassis means you take the side panels off..

[tp4tissue]

Also,  DO NOT buy a supernova p2..

I have a 750 supernova p2 , for very specific reasons, because I need voltage stability for external machine controls..

But unless you're doing that..    ALL PARTS in the computer are designed with +/- 20% voltage differential in mind..

WHICH MEANS your 12v rail can dip an entire 2 volts  and your pc will keep on chugging..



WAY BACK in time, when they made really ****ty psus,  Voltage drop was an indication on component quality rather than a NECESSARY line to be reached..


The computer doesn't actually care about 12volt on the dot at all..


ALL THAT Johnny guru bull**** is just marketing,  he's a marketing shill for the PSU sellers..   While the PSUs are objectively better,  They do NOTHING, and yet they charge people a premium for it.

[tp4tissue]

950 pro is ok..  but imho,  if you've already got a boat load of ssds laying around like Tp4,   it's not worth the added expense, you might as well add another $200 - 300 into the motherboard or Gpu..

Any SSDs made after Crucial m4,  will feel identically fast..    The sequential is slower, but think about it, if you had a large file which sequential speed would help, It probably won't be on a tiny 256 or 512gb ssd..  It's probably a large movie file going to ur HDD..

Game files are all tiny packets , so that sequential speed is useless..

People make the argument for Adobe / Solidworks / Cad speedups on SSDs,  but the truth is..  all serious users of those softwares just buy RAM.. it's way way faster to work from ram than it is to scratch onto SSD.

[davkol]

Nah, a ghetto silent computer is achieved by gluing a carpet to the case chassis.

[tp4tissue]

Nah, a ghetto silent computer is achieved by gluing a carpet to the case chassis.

This will baffle high frequency noise quite well..  But then HEAT is the problem..


Open chassis takes care of the heat.. 700-900rpm low speed fan takes care of the noise

[iLLucionist]

DO NOT buy noctua fans.. NOT WORTH THE MONEY if you're after SILENCE..

Because True silence comes from LOW rpm @ 700-900rpm ,  ALL FANS regardless of aero-optimizations perform about the same at those speeds..

Sleeve bearing is the most quiet. hydro bearing that the noctua uses, is the same as sleeve bearings only it has channels cut into it for oil flow , This makes 0 freaking difference when fans are at low rpm.. NOCTUA = waste

So, how do we cool...

BIG ASS AIR COOLER   +    Run OPEN Chassis..


No matter what you do,  if you run a system with a noctua + closed chassis, it will be significantly louder than Cheapo fans running open Chassis @ 700-900 rpm


As for GPU,   The only way to get silence out of them is to bolt on a CPU 120mm tower..   even the cheapest 120mm cpu cooler will be enough for the highest end gpu..

You may have to do some cutting to make it fit with your base gpu cooling plate which covers the Vram and Power Mosfets.



I can't say this enough.. the SILENCE from a Noctua build is BULL ****..   it's silent relative to G4m3r-dude's 20 x 3000rpm fan build..

OVERALL,  all noctua builds I've heard are still WAY WAY louder than my personal openchassis builds..

Open chassis means you take the side panels off..

The question then is... how fast will the fans need to run for idle/average 6700K work?

From ALL the reviews and forums I've read (about the whole 2 first pages of googling), Noctua is actual the quitest on average.

Open chassis unfortunately is not an option for me. Would you recommend other coolers?

There is also this noctua 140mm ULN rated at 900rpm and 12 dbA...

[iLLucionist]

Also,  DO NOT buy a supernova p2..

I have a 750 supernova p2 , for very specific reasons, because I need voltage stability for external machine controls..

But unless you're doing that..    ALL PARTS in the computer are designed with +/- 20% voltage differential in mind..

WHICH MEANS your 12v rail can dip an entire 2 volts  and your pc will keep on chugging..



WAY BACK in time, when they made really ****ty psus,  Voltage drop was an indication on component quality rather than a NECESSARY line to be reached..


The computer doesn't actually care about 12volt on the dot at all..


ALL THAT Johnny guru bull**** is just marketing,  he's a marketing shill for the PSU sellers..   While the PSUs are objectively better,  They do NOTHING, and yet they charge people a premium for it.

Actually, I don't give a **** about PSUs. The only thing I want is NEAR SILENT operation. From online calculators (6700K, 64GB of ram, 970 GTX) I read that my system will draw 440 watt max, so I went for 600-650 W so that my PSU does not have to work maximum all the time.

What other F**KING silent PSU can you recommend?

[iLLucionist]

950 pro is ok..  but imho,  if you've already got a boat load of ssds laying around like Tp4,   it's not worth the added expense, you might as well add another $200 - 300 into the motherboard or Gpu..

Any SSDs made after Crucial m4,  will feel identically fast..    The sequential is slower, but think about it, if you had a large file which sequential speed would help, It probably won't be on a tiny 256 or 512gb ssd..  It's probably a large movie file going to ur HDD..

Game files are all tiny packets , so that sequential speed is useless..

People make the argument for Adobe / Solidworks / Cad speedups on SSDs,  but the truth is..  all serious users of those softwares just buy RAM.. it's way way faster to work from ram than it is to scratch onto SSD.

I have a SATA 150 SSD (yes, really) in my Late 2010 MacBook Pro with 640 i7 2.8 Ghz 2 core. IT IS SO FREAKING SLOW IT IS UNBELIEVABLE. So I want that ultra maximum "holy f**k this is fast" first 3 months experience, that's why I chose the 950 pro NVME. I expect to be amazed and astounded.

The 850 is for regular storage. I thought of a WD Red 2 TB but then I realized it has moving parts and makes noise, so decided not to do it.

[TalkingTree]

Unless you do need front side openings in your case, I would go for the Fractal Design Define S. I own it and it's great, you have so much room inside and you can install three 140mm fans in the front side.

From a personal experience I would recommend Cryorig XF140 for PWM fans and be quiet! System Power 7 700W which runs almost inaudible but, alas, is not modular.

Lastly, if you're not in a rush for a CPU cooler, I would wait for the Thermaltake Engine 27 which should be out soon.

[iLLucionist]

Unless you do need front side openings in your case, I would go for the Fractal Design Define S. I own it and it's great, you have so much room inside and you can install three 140mm fans in the front side.

From a personal experience I would recommend Cryorig XF140 for PWM fans and be quiet! System Power 7 700W which runs almost inaudible but, alas, is not modular.

Lastly, if you're not in a rush for a CPU cooler, I would wait for the Thermaltake Engine 27 which should be out soon.

Thanks! I find the R5 Blackout SO SEXY. I'll stick with that and probably remove the drive cages. 100% SSD on this build. I have a self-built i5 16 GB raid 6 NAS server for more permanent storage. So I'll edit photos and store finals and catologue on the NAS.

I checked out the Cryorig but to be honest they seem very loud / audible: https://nl.hardware.info/reviews/6584/6/71-casefans-van-140mm-getest-round-up-grote-fans-testresultaten-de-stilste-casefans

I had to choose for fans for my server as well. My server is extremely quiet, you cannot hear it even not with your head literally stacked to the front door. It is a cooler master silencio 550 case, 2 noctua fans, and the hyper 412s cooler with noctua fan on it.

People say it is all bull****, and like tp said: you want fans around 700-900 RPM. So what I did is... all those noctua fans are PWM fans and the motherboard controls the speed. Whatever I do on my server, VMs or pushing my postgresql server... rpm never goes over 850, so it is dead silent.

The only time it makes noise is when the wd reds are being checked by mdadm.

[iLLucionist]

Unless you do need front side openings in your case, I would go for the Fractal Design Define S. I own it and it's great, you have so much room inside and you can install three 140mm fans in the front side.

From a personal experience I would recommend Cryorig XF140 for PWM fans and be quiet! System Power 7 700W which runs almost inaudible but, alas, is not modular.

Lastly, if you're not in a rush for a CPU cooler, I would wait for the Thermaltake Engine 27 which should be out soon.

Oh btw is the System Power 700 you think quieter than the PSU i configured?

[tp4tissue]

You guys are looking at this wrong..


Modern z170 can clock down to 50 watt, full system idle power..

if a power supply is even 80% efficient,   what is 20% of 50 watts,   10 watts..   You can turn the fan completely off for 10 watts on the psu.


So, pretty much ALL modern power supplies will be nearly silent or fan-off @ low loads..


You don't need expensive ones to get this feature..

[tp4tissue]

The question then is... how fast will the fans need to run for idle/average 6700K work?

From ALL the reviews and forums I've read (about the whole 2 first pages of googling), Noctua is actual the quitest on average.

Open chassis unfortunately is not an option for me. Would you recommend other coolers?

There is also this noctua 140mm ULN rated at 900rpm and 12 dbA...

If you run open chassis,  with the big 140mm coolers,  you can run 600rpm on cheap fans all the way up to 70% load..



And people spec out their systems for 100% current draw,   this is stupid,  because NO ONE actually uses their computer that way..

The only time you ever see that high a draw, is during the Overclocking phase where you're benchmarking...

[tp4tissue]

Get a fully modular power supply..  it's much easier to take out and clean..

They're like $50

[tp4tissue]

Don't forget to Delid the cpu,  it's a 10-15 celcius drop in temperature.. why would you not want that.. hahahaha

[tp4tissue]

950 pro is ok..  but imho,  if you've already got a boat load of ssds laying around like Tp4,   it's not worth the added expense, you might as well add another $200 - 300 into the motherboard or Gpu..

Any SSDs made after Crucial m4,  will feel identically fast..    The sequential is slower, but think about it, if you had a large file which sequential speed would help, It probably won't be on a tiny 256 or 512gb ssd..  It's probably a large movie file going to ur HDD..

Game files are all tiny packets , so that sequential speed is useless..

People make the argument for Adobe / Solidworks / Cad speedups on SSDs,  but the truth is..  all serious users of those softwares just buy RAM.. it's way way faster to work from ram than it is to scratch onto SSD.

I have a SATA 150 SSD (yes, really) in my Late 2010 MacBook Pro with 640 i7 2.8 Ghz 2 core. IT IS SO FREAKING SLOW IT IS UNBELIEVABLE. So I want that ultra maximum "holy f**k this is fast" first 3 months experience, that's why I chose the 950 pro NVME. I expect to be amazed and astounded.

The 850 is for regular storage. I thought of a WD Red 2 TB but then I realized it has moving parts and makes noise, so decided not to do it.

$300 more GPU power is way more useful than $300 worth of premium SSD..

you're going to kick urself down the line if  more gpu is an option at this junction.

[noobas4urus]

I'm with tp4, I would much rather drop extra cash into a better GPU than spending it on a better SSD.  Most any SSD you pick up now will rock and the money into a GPU can mean you don't need to upgrade your system for an additional year or two when you get to that point.

PSU-wise, you could look into something like this guy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151095&cm_re=seasonic_full_modular-_-17-151-095-_-Product

Fully modular is the way to go, it cuts down on internal case clutter so much.  Also the fan won't kick on unless the PSU needs it.  I have a Seasonic X650 with the same feature, I don't think I've heard the fan go on once. 

CPU cooler-wise, ha, just go the CM Hyper Evo 212.  It's incredibly efficient for the price point.

Also why go a 6700k and no GTX 1070? 

[tp4tissue]

I'm with tp4, I would much rather drop extra cash into a better GPU than spending it on a better SSD.  Most any SSD you pick up now will rock and the money into a GPU can mean you don't need to upgrade your system for an additional year or two when you get to that point.

PSU-wise, you could look into something like this guy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151095&cm_re=seasonic_full_modular-_-17-151-095-_-Product

Fully modular is the way to go, it cuts down on internal case clutter so much.  Also the fan won't kick on unless the PSU needs it.  I have a Seasonic X650 with the same feature, I don't think I've heard the fan go on once. 

CPU cooler-wise, ha, just go the CM Hyper Evo 212.  It's incredibly efficient for the price point.

Also why go a 6700k and no GTX 1070? 

Hahaha...

noobas4urus,  has most of the points covered.. well, he agrees with the tp after-all..


But, ok here's my  experience with the Hyper EVO,  the mounting system is not very good, I got 3 sets of it on sale once, 2 of the 3 sets had brackets that weren't made well, where one of the screw pins didn't bite as deeply as the other 3.

So,  they're really cranking these out,   but quality wise, you need to keep an eye for small imperfections that may be structural.


That PSU is a great recommendation..  all the features you need,  NONE of the bloated marketing premium.


And as far as GPU, the extra cash now giving you an extra 1-2 years really depends on what you're doing with it..

YEARS are actually really long ,  so , alot of people QUIT gaming in 1-2 years after they buy their gaming PC.. especially ADULTS who buy gaming PCs,    TP4 used to SELL gaming PCs in high school.. to highschoolers, and adults, that's been my experience following up on them.

It's really not as interesting as you think..  The building the PC part is very fun,  but  if you haz access to female,   Gaming is for the most part not NEARLY as good as sex..

I remember commenting earlier how,  You never see attractive people playing videogames..  well,  now you know why.. hahahahha

[JaccoW]

This is what I built a few months ago for my parents.
Replace the gpu and maybe the case if you want and you have a pretty good basis for a near silent system. It's honestly amazing how quiet it is.

[th]Aantal[/th]         [th]Product[/th]         [th]Prijs[/th]         [th]Subtotaal[/th]
1	Cooler Master Silencio 352	€ 59,82	€ 59,82
1	Corsair CS450M	€ 75,90	€ 75,90
1	Dell Professional P2416D	€ 274,67	€ 274,67
1	Intel Core i7 6700K Boxed	€ 341,04	€ 341,04
1	Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB DDR4-2666 CL15 kit	€ 89,90	€ 89,90
1	MSI GeForce GTX 950 Gaming 2GB	€ 190,00	€ 190,00
1	MSI Z170M Mortar	€ 118,00	€ 118,00
1	Samsung 850 Evo 500GB	€ 157,54	€ 157,54
1	Samsung SH-224FB	€ 19,65	€ 19,65
1	Scythe Fuma	€ 43,95	€ 43,95
10 producten	Opslaan als eigen wensenlijst	Totaal	€ 1.370,47

[iLLucionist]

I'm with tp4, I would much rather drop extra cash into a better GPU than spending it on a better SSD.  Most any SSD you pick up now will rock and the money into a GPU can mean you don't need to upgrade your system for an additional year or two when you get to that point.

PSU-wise, you could look into something like this guy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151095&cm_re=seasonic_full_modular-_-17-151-095-_-Product

Fully modular is the way to go, it cuts down on internal case clutter so much.  Also the fan won't kick on unless the PSU needs it.  I have a Seasonic X650 with the same feature, I don't think I've heard the fan go on once. 

CPU cooler-wise, ha, just go the CM Hyper Evo 212.  It's incredibly efficient for the price point.

Also why go a 6700k and no GTX 1070?

I chose the X-series 750W PSU... also fully modular and quiet up until a certain load (I believe around 380 W, only calculations revealed my system will max out at around 420 W).

I can't go for a GTX 1xxx because it's not compatible with OS X and I'm building a hackintosh. Perhaps in the future, but I need a new PC now. My MacBook Pro is so slow and lagging I can get barely any work done.

Hyper Evo? I have a 412S in my server and it's whisper quiet. But I'm thinking of OC'ing the CPU a bit to 4.6 GHz or so, so I figured the bigger heatsink on the NH-D15 may come in handy.

[iLLucionist]

This is what I built a few months ago for my parents.
Replace the gpu and maybe the case if you want and you have a pretty good basis for a near silent system. It's honestly amazing how quiet it is.

[th]Aantal[/th]         [th]Product[/th]         [th]Prijs[/th]         [th]Subtotaal[/th]
1	Cooler Master Silencio 352	€ 59,82	€ 59,82
1	Corsair CS450M	€ 75,90	€ 75,90
1	Dell Professional P2416D	€ 274,67	€ 274,67
1	Intel Core i7 6700K Boxed	€ 341,04	€ 341,04
1	Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB DDR4-2666 CL15 kit	€ 89,90	€ 89,90
1	MSI GeForce GTX 950 Gaming 2GB	€ 190,00	€ 190,00
1	MSI Z170M Mortar	€ 118,00	€ 118,00
1	Samsung 850 Evo 500GB	€ 157,54	€ 157,54
1	Samsung SH-224FB	€ 19,65	€ 19,65
1	Scythe Fuma	€ 43,95	€ 43,95
10 producten	Opslaan als eigen wensenlijst	Totaal	€ 1.370,47

Looks like a nice system. Did you OC the 6700K?

[JaccoW]

This is what I built a few months ago for my parents.
Replace the gpu and maybe the case if you want and you have a pretty good basis for a near silent system. It's honestly amazing how quiet it is.

[th]Aantal[/th]         [th]Product[/th]         [th]Prijs[/th]         [th]Subtotaal[/th]
1	Cooler Master Silencio 352	€ 59,82	€ 59,82
1	Corsair CS450M	€ 75,90	€ 75,90
1	Dell Professional P2416D	€ 274,67	€ 274,67
1	Intel Core i7 6700K Boxed	€ 341,04	€ 341,04
1	Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB DDR4-2666 CL15 kit	€ 89,90	€ 89,90
1	MSI GeForce GTX 950 Gaming 2GB	€ 190,00	€ 190,00
1	MSI Z170M Mortar	€ 118,00	€ 118,00
1	Samsung 850 Evo 500GB	€ 157,54	€ 157,54
1	Samsung SH-224FB	€ 19,65	€ 19,65
1	Scythe Fuma	€ 43,95	€ 43,95
10 producten	Opslaan als eigen wensenlijst	Totaal	€ 1.370,47

Looks like a nice system. Did you OC the 6700K?

Nah I left it for now. It is my parents' system and they live somewhere else. The main reason was the hyperthreading. It helps for video editing.

[tp4tissue]

The editing part doesn't take that much cpu..  the output part does..

Buhhhhhhh... overall,  unless you're doing this as a job,  you'd leave it on overnight anyway.. because even on a 24 core,  long files take hours to output depending on the complexity of the edits...

[iLLucionist]

The editing part doesn't take that much cpu..  the output part does..

Buhhhhhhh... overall,  unless you're doing this as a job,  you'd leave it on overnight anyway.. because even on a 24 core,  long files take hours to output depending on the complexity of the edits...

You are right (of course coz u are tp). IVE ORDERED. There went my savings... poeefff. It's gone! Should arrive Thursday/Friday x fingers crossed x.

AND THEN THE BUILD WITH DSLR 24MP pictures of the build.

Any close-ups request?

[tp4tissue]

The editing part doesn't take that much cpu..  the output part does..

Buhhhhhhh... overall,  unless you're doing this as a job,  you'd leave it on overnight anyway.. because even on a 24 core,  long files take hours to output depending on the complexity of the edits...

You are right (of course coz u are tp). IVE ORDERED. There went my savings... poeefff. It's gone! Should arrive Thursday/Friday x fingers crossed x.

AND THEN THE BUILD WITH DSLR 24MP pictures of the build.

Any close-ups request?

please submit high res photo of your palm for FREE NSA registration purposes..

[iLLucionist]

The editing part doesn't take that much cpu..  the output part does..

Buhhhhhhh... overall,  unless you're doing this as a job,  you'd leave it on overnight anyway.. because even on a 24 core,  long files take hours to output depending on the complexity of the edits...

You are right (of course coz u are tp). IVE ORDERED. There went my savings... poeefff. It's gone! Should arrive Thursday/Friday x fingers crossed x.

AND THEN THE BUILD WITH DSLR 24MP pictures of the build.

Any close-ups request?

please submit high res photo of your palm for FREE NSA registration purposes..

before or after..?

[fanpeople]

If one is serious about silent computing, one must take it to the next level...

[JaccoW]

... poeefff.

And this is why I realised you are Dutch before I double checked your avatar.

[iLLucionist]

If one is serious about silent computing, one must take it to the next level...


(Attachment Link)

Water immersion? Tell me more..

[iLLucionist]

... poeefff.

And this is why I realised you are Dutch before I double checked your avatar.

Yes, I'm Dutch. Typically I don't mix Dutch with English. But "poeefff" sounds so cool :-P

[JaccoW]

If one is serious about silent computing, one must take it to the next level...
(Attachment Link)

Water immersion? Tell me more..

Probably a mineral oil cooled pc
It's sort of old-school though but generally not bad for your parts until the oil gets contaminated and starts conducting.
That and it sort of drops your resale value to zero.

[iLLucionist]

If one is serious about silent computing, one must take it to the next level...
(Attachment Link)

Water immersion? Tell me more..

Probably a mineral oil cooled pc
It's sort of old-school though but generally not bad for your parts until the oil gets contaminated and starts conducting.
That and it sort of drops your resale value to zero.

Nahh.. I'll stick to air cooling. System I configured should be around 12 dbA most of the time, not even factoring in the silencing of the Fractal Define R5 case, 19 dbA max for most challenging tasks. Makes me remember the PowerMac G5 with liquid cooling though.