Can you compare smoothness to MX Black (modern, vintage), Gateron Black, and/or Micro Switch?
How are off-center key presses?
Any chance for a heavier weight?
Consistency of feel between switches?
Cases look a little iffy, what are the feet like?
I feel like I'd want an anchor for a case for Hall Effect.
holy **** this is so cool wtf
That is amazing! May I ask how much did it cost you to get one?
Looking forward to a full sized Hall Effect keyboard. Good times are coming, hope at least they are available for 2017.
Really wanna see some teardown pictures. Most importantly, how do I get my hands on one?
How is the quality of the bamboo? It looks pretty thin, but very easy to replicate in a different material.
In for a bamboo TKL if these ever become a thing. Is it possible to get them on Taobao?
Any chance you could test them with an SA key set? I know you would lose the shine-through but I'm curious how they fit on those stems.
Oh, hi! It was great to chat about these with you back in June.
Oh, hi! It was great to chat about these with you back in June.
Oh was this you? I was trying to remember who it was! Sorry I didn't get your contact info back then. If it weren't for you this project wouldn't be happening, so, thanks for showing me that board! I tried to get a hold of you through the meetup organizers but that somehow fell through.
IIRC you're local to the Austin area, so, feel free to stop by sometime if you want to check out some of the other form factors. Your version of the board is the even older one that has a buzzing backlight (fixed with different capacitor choices) and clicking springs (fixed with a new mold that eliminates a burr).
In for a bamboo TKL if these ever become a thing. Is it possible to get them on Taobao?
Any chance you could test them with an SA key set? I know you would lose the shine-through but I'm curious how they fit on those stems.
For now please wait for the upcoming group buy. Then you get the benefits of all of our hard work fixing all the bugs in these keyboards. :-)
Engicoder tested them with SA. The Space bars have some issues. We'll need to rework the stabilizers a bit to fix this. I'll test it again myself later.
BTW, did they mention anything to you about a two spring version of the switch, perhaps with a brown stem? I've seen the occasional picture of it around the web, but I'm still trying to figure out if a) it really exists, and b) if it actually works differently (perhaps by having the short inner spring push down on a membrane) or is just using the second spring to add a form of tactility to the Hall Effect design.
Make the cable exit the usual mini usb port which you can attach/detach cable for
Also check the LEDs. Some LEDs + controller (used by chinese manufacturers) has the unfortunate side effect of emitting a coil whine like either buzzing or high frequency whining sound while many LEDs are lit at the same time.
Make the cable exit the usual mini usb port which you can attach/detach cable for
Personally, I like the fixed cable with the connection points sealed for full waterproofing. The nice thing about 100% waterproofing is that, if the board ever gets really dirty-- like if it suffers a bad soda spill, or your cat vomits into it, or you just happen to forget about cleaning it for 10 years, or whatever-- you can just rinse it off. Also means a bit more confidence in the spill protection in general.
Plus, I worry that the port where a cable connects could easily become more of a failure point than the cable itself.
For now please wait for the upcoming group buy. Then you get the benefits of all of our hard work fixing all the bugs in these keyboards. :-)
Engicoder tested them with SA. The Space bars have some issues. We'll need to rework the stabilizers a bit to fix this. I'll test it again myself later.
Did I misunderstand, or is this not a product that is already in production and out for retail sale?
I know that XMIT is working to tweak details and that the group buy will be a specialty customized setup(s), but won't there still be a stock version on the open market?
Did I misunderstand, or is this not a product that is already in production and out for retail sale?
I know that XMIT is working to tweak details and that the group buy will be a specialty customized setup(s), but won't there still be a stock version on the open market?
One bit of concern I have is with the NKRO feature. In order to achieve this over USB, aren't they going to have to do some sort of "NKRO emulation" like Varmilo does? If so, I would request that it be off by default, enabled via DIP switch or something. Varmilo's NKRO emulation does not work with USB hubs, KVM switches, or Macintoshes, and worse yet, it is on by default and can't be turned off.
The aliexpress link above appears to use the same switch as the pictures above. On sale now for about $36 USD shipped isn't a bad price to test it out.
What layouts is this proposed group buy going to have? TKL and Full size? 60 and 75% too?
The aliexpress link above appears to use the same switch as the pictures above. On sale now for about $36 USD shipped isn't a bad price to test it out.
The aforementioned keyboard uses the same sliders as the Hall effect board, but uses a different sensing mechanism that is not Hall effect based. I *think* it is conductive.
Sounds good to me. Looking forward to seeing what comes out of this.What layouts is this proposed group buy going to have? TKL and Full size? 60 and 75% too?The current thinking is to focus on TKL unless there is strong demand for full size. I don't want to offer 60% boards until we're able to offer them with a default firmware that contains rather more keys in the Fn layer.
The current thinking is to focus on TKLSeriously?! Oo
Since this is hall effect, at what point does the actual key actuate? Does it need to bottom to do so?
The current thinking is to focus on TKLSeriously?! Oo
You are absolutely right about the sound from the LEDs. This is something that I've already fixed in this revision of the boards. The latest version - what I have now - do not have a buzzing sound or a whine.
Yeah, fullsize! Are they really thinking of making a gaming keyboard out of this? OoThe current thinking is to focus on TKLSeriously?! Oo
...as opposed to? I'm guessing you would prefer one of the other sizes.
You are absolutely right about the sound from the LEDs. This is something that I've already fixed in this revision of the boards. The latest version - what I have now - do not have a buzzing sound or a whine.
Did you find out anything about what it is that causes the sounds? I have the problem on something I bought from china and can't figure out any way to fix it yet.
So it's probably caused by http://puu.sh/r6CbQ/c11562e52b.jpg (http://puu.sh/r6CbQ/c11562e52b.jpg) ?
doh.. this kananic dkd 82 I bought doesn't have any manufacturer website, much any firmware files I can use to reflash the thing with a different constant
I've no idea where I'll be able to buy suitable SMD cap to replace either
01 - 5 57.78 us$/each
6 - 49 48.89 us$/each
≥ 50 42.22 us$/each
≥ 500 To be discussed If you are ordering more than 500 pcs of this item, please place order first, then contact us, we will give you more discount on unit price
I can't promise that it will contain LEDs that don't buzz, springs that don't click, a programmable firmware, a detachable cable, Cherry stabilizers on all stabilized keys, or any of the other improvements that I'm negotiating with the manufacturer. You will get a better keyboard through my group buy for sure.
Do you see your improvements being permanently absorbed into the system, or do you think that your group buy will be a one-time higher-quality product?
I can't promise that it will contain LEDs that don't buzz, springs that don't click, a programmable firmware, a detachable cable, Cherry stabilizers on all stabilized keys, or any of the other improvements that I'm negotiating with the manufacturer. You will get a better keyboard through my group buy for sure.
XMIT, do you happen to know if the implementation of the Hall effect follows the explanation I put in the ITT Courier board? Or does it use something weird like those pulse things that you found?
A couple of reviewers received the bamboo and acrylic body types - any thoughts on these specific constructions in addition to what was mentioned above?
The acrylic really does feel weighty and substantial. I think it's the best option. The ABS has the most universal appeal and is the safest for the group buy. Bamboo is somewhat exotic - I really like mine, and I didn't think I would, but it may not be for everyone.
Why? OoThe acrylic really does feel weighty and substantial. I think it's the best option. The ABS has the most universal appeal and is the safest for the group buy. Bamboo is somewhat exotic - I really like mine, and I didn't think I would, but it may not be for everyone.
Maybe it's just me, but I have always thought of acrylic as the "bottom of the barrel" when it comes to plastics.
Oh come on Dr. Chyros*, surely you can tell us more good things about acrylic than that!Don't jinx it! xD
*ABD. >:-)
In regards to a detachable cable, I don't see what the big deal is. I thought it was fairly easy to make your own cable, setup like this Pexon cable (https://www.instagram.com/p/BEeunMYvN6o). Then just desolder the stock cable and resolder in the cable of your choice. Just swap in your own detachable cable mod.That's easy cause you just plug the thing into the PCB. If you look at the preview pictures here you'll see that each contact of the cable is soldered onto the PCB and then a click of hotglue to cover the whole thing. (standard procedure with cheap chinese keyboards) this is not something people want to fiddle with as not everyone here has soldering tools ready. It'd be the best if it's simply a female mini-usb port on the case.
If (this) s the ABS case then I'm pretty much satisfied with it. It'd be BEST if the part between arrow keys and the upper cluster was completely lat with no logo/indents besides two lights for caps/scroll lock.
Is it only available in black or will there be other colors available?
Very excited to get my hands on a board and to see where these changes are going. Very excited about the GB.
excited for final gb-ready revision as well, will be following and lurking :)
excited for final gb-ready revision as well, will be following and lurking :)
Sifo wants this? :O
excited for final gb-ready revision as well, will be following and lurking :)
Sifo wants this? :O
hall effect is dope
Thanks CPTBadAss!
I was able to get my hands on a tung oil coated board as well. The smell is ... really quite strong. I won't offer this option unless someone goes out of their way to ask for it. Though, I am really curious to see how this dissipates over time.
I'm getting things together for a group buy. For now, to make things super simple, there will be one option, just one. It comes in any color you want, so long as it is black:
Body: Black ABS plastic
Key caps: PBT+POM double shot, black
Backlighting: Yes
Cable: Detachable, USB, using mini USB connection.
Stabilizers: Cherry MX mount
Weight: 50g
I know this isn't everyone's favorite choice but it is the least common denominator. Sticking with just one option really makes things quite a lot easier. If this group buy is a success maybe we'll open up choices later on.
So to those who don't like the lights: please turn them off. For those who don't like the key caps: please remove them using the enclosed key puller. For those who want heavier springs: perhaps I'll offer a spare set of springs if there is sufficient interest. For those who want 60% or full size boards: please wait for the next group buy.
If you multiply all of the available options there are well over 500 choices!
Manufacturing is all about compromise and growing sustainably. Again, if this round goes well, there will likely be another!
when the keyboard drivers finally installed
though, from where would this get shipped? i'm "worried" about heavy shipping + import costs
when the keyboard drivers finally installed
did you need to install any? or do you mean windows was slow to recognize what drivers to install/use?
Can't you run something like they do on aliexpress were the manufacturer sends the item directly via chn airmail or dhl or something as a "gift". I don't mind tossing $20-30 to shipping but it's pointless to pay import fees when these can be completely avoided and have been before.though, from where would this get shipped? i'm "worried" about heavy shipping + import costs
The current plan is to run a group buy shipping these through the US. That's not great for you, sorry. :(
or something as a "gift"
Can't you run something like they do on aliexpress were the manufacturer sends the item directly via chn airmail or dhl or something as a "gift". I don't mind tossing $20-30 to shipping but it's pointless to pay import fees when these can be completely avoided and have been before.though, from where would this get shipped? i'm "worried" about heavy shipping + import costs
The current plan is to run a group buy shipping these through the US. That's not great for you, sorry. :(
wow, you're doing work. that's awesome xmit, thank youNo kidding. Awesome.
A wireless version is unlikely but I'll keep this in mine as a possibility. Thanks!sigh , there goes my endgame.
the two springs
Why take a switch type known for legendary reliability and introduce a point of failure with a detachable hub?
If you must use a detachable method can you ask the manufacturer to at least make it easy to repair once it fails?
You'll wear out your switches before you come close to wearing out the USB port. Let's keep this in perspective.
You'll wear out your switches before you come close to wearing out the USB port. Let's keep this in perspective.
If the legends of Hall Effect are true the switches should outlast the user. :p
I only voice my concern because it's almost 2017 and there are still keyboards out there with faulty detachable USB ports. I am not an engineer but am I wrong in assuming this should be one of the easiest component to perfect?
It's not exactly the number of cycles that bother me as to how it stays in place. I'm sure the boards above were not even close to the max number of cycles.
I mean, maybe I can sell a couple of the fixed-wire prototypes in the Classifieds later.
We did look into USB C connectors and at the moment the cost is prohibitive at scale. This would also require a PCB rework. So perhaps at a later date.
Another fact is that making a quality, durable product takes real iteration. The switches are rated at "100 million" cycles. The manufacturer claims that at this point the magnets start to fail. I doubt it! I really think that they were like, oh, this is twice as durable as Cherry MX which is rated at 50, so let's say 100.
Failure testing is a real thing. I'm for a better design in future models, but to do that, I want to do real failure testing. No sense in having a super durable USB connector if there is some other point of failure. I'm as excited as everyone else for super awesome Hall effect keyboards which is why I started down this route four months ago. Dealing with overseas manufacturing takes patience!
But I digress. I've placed the (hopefully) final order for prototypes. If these look good the next step is the group buy.
Also not too exciting, I've come up with branding! This logo will be on the back of the boards, on the printed manual (which I still need to write...), and on the box.
(Attachment Link)
The font is "Technic" which you can Google around for. The logo will probably evolve over time but this is a start.
I mean, maybe I can sell a couple of the fixed-wire prototypes in the Classifieds later.
We did look into USB C connectors and at the moment the cost is prohibitive at scale. This would also require a PCB rework. So perhaps at a later date.
Another fact is that making a quality, durable product takes real iteration. The switches are rated at "100 million" cycles. The manufacturer claims that at this point the magnets start to fail. I doubt it! I really think that they were like, oh, this is twice as durable as Cherry MX which is rated at 50, so let's say 100.
Failure testing is a real thing. I'm for a better design in future models, but to do that, I want to do real failure testing. No sense in having a super durable USB connector if there is some other point of failure. I'm as excited as everyone else for super awesome Hall effect keyboards which is why I started down this route four months ago. Dealing with overseas manufacturing takes patience!
But I digress. I've placed the (hopefully) final order for prototypes. If these look good the next step is the group buy.
Also not too exciting, I've come up with branding! This logo will be on the back of the boards, on the printed manual (which I still need to write...), and on the box.
(Attachment Link)
The font is "Technic" which you can Google around for. The logo will probably evolve over time but this is a start.
87-key black/ABS with black keys and 50g springs;
87-key bamboo with white keys and 70g spring.
87-key black/ABS with black keys and 50g springs;
87-key bamboo with white keys and 70g spring.
Oh damn, you're gonna make me choose, huh?
OK, I see how it is... ;D
> has anyone tried DSA caps on them to see if they will be fine in the stabilizers?
I don't know, but, SA works just fine so I'm going to guess that DSA works just fine as well. Signature Plastics use the same spacing for all of their designs IIRC.
"Car race"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect
Basically, bringing a magnet close to a thin conductor will bend the electric field going across that conductor and produce a voltage differential, which you can measure.
What this means is that this keyboard uses magnets and magnetic sensors for the switches. The result is a very reliable, weather proof, bounce free keyboard. This technology was popular in the 1970s for keyboards before it fell out of favor due to cost.
The disappearance of Hall Effect switches was all part of the shift towards making hardware cheap enough to reach the masses. It's why cheap membrane keyboards with thin, pad printed cylindrical keycaps have become the norm.
It is a shame that it takes so much effort (and expense) to bring high-quality keyboards out of the shadows of a nearly forgotten past and onto our desktops again. I'm grateful for XMIT who refuses to let Hall Effect die forever.
The backlighting is controversial. The LEDs add a tiny amount of cost, and offering a separate version of the boards without the LEDs would involve hitting a separate MOQ, so, it's LEDs for everyone. They are easy enough to turn off. I'll be clear about how to do this in the manual that I write.
Yeah sorry, this is a far cry from the Micro Switch keyboards that we all know and love (and that I am, slowly, working to provide replacement controllers for...). The closest you'll get to the old standard are thick PBT key caps and CNC'd aluminum cases.
But, those may come later, so don't be too disappointed yet. Baby steps.
I'll update later with some videos comparing all the case materials and the sliders soon.
Alright, manufacturer contacted.
From the looks of it, these should also be compatible with the new, upstroke-damped sliders that we made just for my boards. That's really exciting, thanks for the tip!
Alright, manufacturer contacted.
From the looks of it, these should also be compatible with the new, upstroke-damped sliders that we made just for my boards. That's really exciting, thanks for the tip!
Usually click leaves can be adapted to be tactile non-clicky as well. Would that be the case with these?
Any problems with using O-Rings?
A soft landing pad involves taking every switch apart though, right?
tl;dr: I'm working with Massdrop for this.
tl;dr: I'm working with Massdrop for this.
If I had a suggestion it would be to cap the order quantity for the first couple of group buys. The initial MagicForce 68 drops were a cluster **** due to underestimating the demand for the board. I think some folks were waiting around a half a year for their board!
tl;dr: I'm working with Massdrop for this.
If I had a suggestion it would be to cap the order quantity for the first couple of group buys. The initial MagicForce 68 drops were a cluster **** due to underestimating the demand for the board. I think some folks were waiting around a half a year for their board!
Not a bad suggestion, actually. Has this company given any indication of their manufacturing capacity? It could be a factor if orders blow up.
Wait, will the tung oil option be offered in the Massdrop?
Wait, will the tung oil option be offered in the Massdrop?
I've decided to go with a low odor option - either untreated or wax - for the bamboo boards. The tung oil has a strong smell!
An untreated board will be somewhat less water resistant and more prone to damage. It's just like a cutting board!
Speaking of which, if untreated, cutting board oil (or mineral oil) works very well to treat bamboo. :D
Is firmware programmability still something that we can expect for these boards? I noticed it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but hasn't really come up again.
I've confirmed with the manufacturer that these click leaves are in fact an option, and that they have a new and improved design for the leaves. I'll try them out and report back what I find.
I love bamboo cutting boards, so... :D
Is firmware programmability still something that we can expect for these boards? I noticed it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but hasn't really come up again.
Not yet, for two different but equally boring reasons.
Short term: the manufacturer sees "MCU" and "firmware" as some off the shelf part that they can drop in, similar to "LED" or "Hall sensor". This means that they end up picking parts based on cost, and not on capabilities. It's crappy, and I've told them this, but their best answer is "oh, we're going to maybe get a firmware programming UI tool for you later". It's not great, but it's the truth.
Long term: if things go really well I can build a fully custom board around a common MCU and open source firmware. That's what I want, that's in the end what you want, and that's what will work best for everyone. I can't promise that any time soon.
Is firmware programmability still something that we can expect for these boards? I noticed it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but hasn't really come up again.
Not yet, for two different but equally boring reasons.
Short term: the manufacturer sees "MCU" and "firmware" as some off the shelf part that they can drop in, similar to "LED" or "Hall sensor". This means that they end up picking parts based on cost, and not on capabilities. It's crappy, and I've told them this, but their best answer is "oh, we're going to maybe get a firmware programming UI tool for you later". It's not great, but it's the truth.
Long term: if things go really well I can build a fully custom board around a common MCU and open source firmware. That's what I want, that's in the end what you want, and that's what will work best for everyone. I can't promise that any time soon.
Here's a teaser shot of the production ready bamboo case with XMIT Keyboards logo and hidden screws! I'll take some more photos tonight.
(Attachment Link)
Have you tried the black keys on the bamboo case? Might look nice, not a huge fan of white keys (dunno why).
For the group buy, the bamboo board will come with white key caps,
For the group buy, the bamboo board will come with white key caps,
The nice ones in your recent post or the heinous ones in the original post?
So, I took some more photos and sent them to my friends at Massdrop. They said it would be better to just send them the boards and let their professional photographers have at it. So, my three final prototypes are in a box now, heading out tomorrow.
But something surprising happened. Now, don't get me wrong, I like these boards plenty, but with previous iterations there was just enough wrong with them to not make them great daily drivers. Maybe the stabilizers were binding. Maybe there was rattle or clicking or pinging. Maybe the upstroke was too loud.
But, for the past few days, I've been dogfooding the acrylic 87-key 50g variant of the board. I'm glad I did - I worked out some important firmware discrepancies that made it into my written manual.
Now that it's packed up ... I miss it! I'm back on my Hypersphere'd Novatouch for a little bit. It's just a touch too heavy, and somehow feels slower.
I mean, take my review with a grain of salt since I'm trying to sell them, but these are wonderful boards. I've been using them for hacking and writing exclusively for the past few days. I just fly on them. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming refined clicky and tactile versions. For now, since I have some spare sliders, I'm going to retrofit an older prototype with updated parts to get a daily driver for the time being.
If the group buy goes really well I'll offer a 104-key option as well, this was a popular request!
The only [H] I know is HardOCP -- very old PC hardware community.
http://www.hardocp.com/
I wasn't aware that they dabbled in mechs. I don't see a subforum for it.
Can you tell us the size & length of the case screws? I might want to swap them out for button heads.
Here's the near-final 60% key mapping.
(Attachment Link)
Is there only one fixed position for the Fn key? Chording for the arrow-keys with the right pinky would be frustrating; I'm used to using CapsLock for that on all my 60% boards.
Is there only one fixed position for the Fn key? Chording for the arrow-keys with the right pinky would be frustrating; I'm used to using CapsLock for that on all my 60% boards.
In this version, yes. We're still exploring options for full remapping (which everyone wants for 60% boards) but I can't promise anything yet. (I only promise things I can actually deliver on - no vaporware here.)
Has anyone addressed the complaints about these switches in that board from ali? "The switches are bad. After a month of use some keys stopped responding..."
Has anyone addressed the complaints about these switches in that board from ali?
"The switches are bad. After a month of use some keys stopped responding, so I've changed them with spares that came with the keyboard, but after a while they stopped responding as well. So be caucious."
Has anyone addressed the complaints about these switches in that board from ali?
"The switches are bad. After a month of use some keys stopped responding, so I've changed them with spares that came with the keyboard, but after a while they stopped responding as well. So be caucious."
This thing piqued my interest. Few questions: Is it 1000hz? How fast is the matrix scan rate? Really no debouncing needed at all?
Has anyone addressed the complaints about these switches in that board from ali?
...The only issues I've had with these boards with regards to key sensing, has always been related to a bad spring installation. It is a little tricky, when rebuilding, to get the springs and housings together just right.
gonna have to pass on round 1 :(
I think the comment was re. the non-HAL switches. Glad to hear these will work longer than any of us will. ;-)
“They're making the firmware ready for end-users to re-program the keyboards. The function will be ready by the end of this month, which is in about 2 weeks. They said the interface might not look good, but they'll open it so the end-users can make their own interface.”
Good news! It looks like we’ll have some sort of re-programming option available in a couple of weeks - after the drop ends but well before shipping. So, if you want to remap Ctrl, or Fn, or Caps Lock, or Esc or any other key, this is now possible!
Back story: I worked with a design and manufacturing partner on the board. They, in turn, worked with another partner for firmwares and microcontrollers. In fact, we switched from a previous partner because there was /no/ programming option with their offering.
Below is the response I received from the manufacturer, with some minor edits:
“They're making the firmware ready for end-users to re-program the keyboards. The function will be ready by the end of this month, which is in about 2 weeks. They said the interface might not look good, but they'll open it so the end-users can make their own interface.”
This was the #1 piece of feedback I’ve received in the past few days, and now, it looks like we have a path forward here!
I am holding off for 3 months in anticipation of the tactile model.
If that never happens, I may be kicking myself.
Since they are inextricably tied together, there is no way to know which case type or spring resistance is more popular. And that means current sales data won't be (as) helpful for directing available options for future rounds.
I am holding off for 3 months in anticipation of the tactile model.
If that never happens, I may be kicking myself.
Same boat as you. Very, very tempted now that fullsize is available on MD, but if tactile is future option I'll wait.
Whoa....who is this guy? :eek:
Sup Krog long time no see man.
:spam:
I'm chatting with the manufacturer to see if we can, behind the scenes, just offer more spring weight options. Think of it as having the "alternate weight" springs pre-installed.
That said, I wouldn't go full 70g springs as I already find MX blacks fatiguing on the fingers with prolonged use.
That said, I wouldn't go full 70g springs as I already find MX blacks fatiguing on the fingers with prolonged use.
I do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...
Since the springs are tied to the type of case, I wonder which of the two are driving people's choices. Are people getting the case they want and simply accepting the springs that are tied to it, or are they getting the spring resistance they want and settling for the case?
I am holding off for 3 months in anticipation of the tactile model... If that never happens, I may be kicking myself.
I'm chatting with the manufacturer to see if we can, behind the scenes, just offer more spring weight options. Think of it as having the "alternate weight" springs pre-installed. I don't want to bait and switch orders, but I don't want to make hundreds of people take their boards apart either.
For a mere $5 more, I get the springs on the off chance I might need or want them. For that price, I'll take them as I might want to go variable weight and have heavier springs in certain locations.
Too many options for a group as opinionated as keyboard enthusiasts...
Personally, I want light springs and tactile switches. Bamboo would be fine since the screws don't show, but metal would be better. How's that?
I do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...
We're featured in Tom's Hardware! http://www.tomshardware.com/news/xmit-hall-effect-keyboard-massdrop,33060.html
That said, I wouldn't go full 70g springs as I already find MX blacks fatiguing on the fingers with prolonged use.
I do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...
Quote from: zslaneI do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...
What do you base that on? Is it because the switches are so unusually smooth? Or is that a characteristic of these particular springs? If it's true, it may make the choice easier for most of us, as it implies the 50g springs feel considerably lighter too—and I don't think many of us would prefer a board that feels like it's under 40g.
Quote from: zslaneI do too. However, bear in mind that these 70g springs produce a resistance more like 50g, whereas MX blacks are around 65g. 50 is closer to 45 than 65...
What do you base that on?...
I'm basing it on statements that XMIT has made both in this forum thread and on the DT thread of the same name...
Spring weights:
-50g (approx. 35g actuation)
-70g (approx. 50g actuation)
@XMIT: Regarding the spring weights in the HE keyboard,
Hall Effect springs:
50 g: 35 g actuation
70 g: 50 g actuation
Cherry mx:
Red: 45 g actuation; ~ 55 g bottom-out
Black: 50 g actuation; ~ 80 g bottom-out
From these numbers, it would appear that the springs in the HE keyboard are fairly light. My interpretation is that if I find Cherry mx Red too light, I would find the HE 50 g springs much too light. It looks like the 70 g spring would give me something a bit heavier than Cherry mx Red but not as heavy as Cherry mx Black. If this interpretation is correct, I should go for the 70 g springs. Am I looking at this correctly?
How much work is required to replace the springs in the board? Is soldering tools required?There's a download link to the manual on the massdrop page https://www.massdrop.com/buy/xmit-hall-effect-mechanical-keyboard, under the section on specs. It mentions the steps required.
Now the waiting game for the drop begins. Looking forward to getting my hands on this one.
I'm looking very forward to getting my XMIT board too, kinda nervous about how I'll take to linear switches though. This will actually be [my] 1st mech with linear switches.. I have never gave linears a fair shot & this seemed like the perfect board to do so with.
I am holding off for 3 months in anticipation of the tactile model.
Same. Hall effect sounds intriguing, but I will only buy tactile boards. Linear is just weird.
Maybe if you type, like, 20 wpm.you wouldn't think that clicks or bumps had anything to do with fast, accurate typing.I disagree. With tactile feedback, you are notified that you have activated this letter and can immediately move on to the next one.
you wouldn't think that clicks or bumps had anything to do with fast, accurate typing.
I disagree. With tactile feedback, you are notified that you have activated this letter and can immediately move on to the next one.
A fast typist can avoid the wasted time and motion that occurs after the event has been registered.
Clearly, a person accustomed to his own keyboard will eventually learn how far the press needs to go, but it is trial and error.
Were that the case for everyone, I would expect to be faster on a switch like MX blues.
MX blues are the worst of the lot because of their incredibly irritating noise. Jailhoused blue or green MX is a good switch because the actuation point is raised quite a bit, but I don't own any Cherry keyboards (unless you count the MX black with O-rings that my teenage son loves).
Although I use buckling springs and often bottom out, my fastest typing is certainly with tactile or clicky Alps because of their high actuation point.
Jailhousing Cherry switches totally changes them. The noise is reduced greatly and made far less annoying, and the tactility is smoothed and raised to occur much higher up in the stroke.
I have tested them but not ever owned one, I was hoping to get one from Gutz last spring but he stiffed me.
My solution is even easier - MX reds. I've got relatively quiet switches with no tactility which is what I want anyway.
Jailhoused blue and green are totally different from linear switches.
How much effort is required to change the springs? Is desoldering required in the process?It's been answered here or at DT. Soldering isn't required, and the process takes a few hours IIRC.
Shipping was on track for before Chinese New Year before the factory found a quality control issue. Now it's still the middle of Chinese New Year. I'm working with Massdrop to get an update to everyone as quickly as possible. I know everyone wants their keyboards!
2. By ordering through me you're supporting future development for things like ...
It is true that the manufacturer will try to sell versions of the board with my proposed improvements on the open market.
But please do realize that we’re also actively working on new product.
you’re not just buying a keyboard, you’re actively supporting the development of future revisions to the board.
And the larger question: are XMITs manufactured to higher standards than their retail pieces?
Can these be bought in the usa not via massdrop?
Thanks for the update! They look good, are you going to post more picks here or the other thread?
XMIT
In your earlier photos you had pics of a fullsize that was entirely encased in wood - not bamboo. It also had decorations engraved into it.
Can you talk about that?
Is this board available on taobao?
Is this board available on taobao?
From what I understand, you can only get one of XMIT's boards through his Massdrops right now, unless you buy one from classifieds when they're available.
Is this board available on taobao?
From what I understand, you can only get one of XMIT's boards through his Massdrops right now, unless you buy one from classifieds when they're available.
Hmm, I am kind of surprised if the makers don't have their own taobao store.
Is this board available on taobao?
From what I understand, you can only get one of XMIT's boards through his Massdrops right now, unless you buy one from classifieds when they're available.
Hmm, I am kind of surprised if the makers don't have their own taobao store.
There's a post earlier in the thread detailing where XMIT found them, iirc. They're not of the same quality and likely not updated to XMIT's specs.
Is this board available on taobao?
From what I understand, you can only get one of XMIT's boards through his Massdrops right now, unless you buy one from classifieds when they're available.
Hmm, I am kind of surprised if the makers don't have their own taobao store.
There's a post earlier in the thread detailing where XMIT found them, iirc. They're not of the same quality and likely not updated to XMIT's specs.
Aha, that's probably the deal breaker right there. If they're not the exact ones XMIT is selling, not sure i'd want to bother.
I just hate massdrop so, so much. only had bad experiences with them and kinda dont want to order anything thru them again.
Is this board available on taobao?
From what I understand, you can only get one of XMIT's boards through his Massdrops right now, unless you buy one from classifieds when they're available.
Hmm, I am kind of surprised if the makers don't have their own taobao store.
There's a post earlier in the thread detailing where XMIT found them, iirc. They're not of the same quality and likely not updated to XMIT's specs.
Aha, that's probably the deal breaker right there. If they're not the exact ones XMIT is selling, not sure i'd want to bother.
I just hate massdrop so, so much. only had bad experiences with them and kinda dont want to order anything thru them again.
Understandable. I don't doubt a few will pop up in the classifieds section in the following weeks, keep an eye open.
...I ordered one but not entirely sure if I'm going to keep it. Like many, since ordering I've accumulated a few other keyboards and don't know how this one will fit in my rotation/collection, but we'll see how it is.
Hi everyone - Your keyboards have arrived in the United States and will be shipping soon, but we wanted to take a moment to fully explain why shipping was held up for a few days.
Early last week XMIT received his final production keyboard a few days ahead of the warehouse and found some odd behavior with key rollover that we wanted to properly figure out before shipping everyone their keyboard. The short of it is that NKRO is limited to about 5 keys per row, but please read on for more technical details from XMIT followed by the current status.
---
These Hall effect keyboards were designed from the beginning with the aim to be fully compatible with NKRO. Hall switches are inherently analog sensors, not physical switches, so an NKRO design is simple enough. Indeed, earlier prototypes of the board were NKRO capable without any issues.
In this offering, we made some substantial changes to the board design. One was to move to an entirely different microcontroller to enable firmware programming and keyboard remapping. Another was to change the sensing technique to enable multiple key actuation heights. There were some other changes but these are the two important ones for this discussion.
The Hall sensors on the board are connected to pull up resistors to enable analog sensing. Banks of switches are connected together in rows for convenience. When the typist presses a key switch, a magnet moves closer to the Hall sensor, changing the output voltage.
The issue arises when multiple switches on the same row are pressed. In this situation, the multiple resistors will source more current, potentially causing interference for other switches in the row that prevent sensing. Empirically, we’ve discovered that pressing up to five switches per row is okay, but more than that tends to confuse the keyboard controller. Replacing the resistors - all of them - helps to alleviate the issue but this is a tedious rework. Adding an additional transistor per switch fixes the issue for good but requires a new board design.
-----
While NKRO was not explicitly advertised we believe there may have been discussion of it being included somewhere along the way in the design process and want to be 100% transparent about what we know. After several rounds of conversation between XMIT, Massdrop and the manufacturers, along with additional feedback from several community members, we have decided to go ahead with fulfillment.
Thanks everyone for reading and we truly appreciate your patience and understanding. These should start shipping out by this week. If you have any questions please feel free to reach out to Community Support through the Transaction page.
Well, I just got a nice postcard from XMIT, from some unnamed private island in the Caribbean... LOL, Just kidding.
XMIT, FYI I just got notice from MassDrop that my board is shipping out. Hopefully that's expected.
Hi hking0036! Round 2 will come "when it's done", it is at least a few months out. The clicky and tactile variants won't alter reliability at all. The tactile mechanism will be pretty durable, and even so, those would wear out long before the sensors would!Thanks. I had a friend looking at them but he missed the first round and I think he's interested in picking one up so that'd be cool. I think the reason a tactile hall effect board throws me for a loop is just that I associate it with honeywells.
XMIT, FYI I just got notice from MassDrop that my board is shipping out. Hopefully that's expected.
Sure is! The stop ship is lifted which means fulfillment is underway. Thanks for the update!
Hi hking0036! Round 2 will come "when it's done", it is at least a few months out. The clicky and tactile variants won't alter reliability at all. The tactile mechanism will be pretty durable, and even so, those would wear out long before the sensors would!
Are you able to say at this point if Round 2 will be fully silenced?
Well, I just got a nice postcard from XMIT, from some unnamed private island in the Caribbean... LOL, Just kidding.
Well, I /am/ Puerto Rican... :eek: :))
Here it comes...
Your XMIT Hall Effect Mechanical Keyboard has shipped with tracking number [###] and it should be arriving soon!
Your package is being shipped via DHL Global Mail. Please note that there may be a short delay between when our fulfillment center ships your package, and when the package begins to return tracking information. If the tracking page shows "No results" for your tracking number, please try again in a day or two. Rest assured, your package is on its way.
Did the rest of you get this notice I got on Friday? Since no one's mentioned it here yet, I thought a copy 'n' paste was in order:QuoteHere it comes...
Your XMIT Hall Effect Mechanical Keyboard has shipped with tracking number [###] and it should be arriving soon!
Your package is being shipped via DHL Global Mail. Please note that there may be a short delay between when our fulfillment center ships your package, and when the package begins to return tracking information. If the tracking page shows "No results" for your tracking number, please try again in a day or two. Rest assured, your package is on its way.
And indeed, my tracking says "En Route". Woo hoo!
Received mine, but I don't have much to say at the moment. The right stabilizer for my spacebar arrived busted though, and the keyboard was very loose in the box. Given how oversized the box is I imagine they used the same ones for TKL and 60%. I can see why it was damaged just banging around in there.
I do like the feel of the keys. They definitely feel lighter than 70g. XMIT was certainly right in saying the 70g are closer to Reds than they are something like Blacks. outside of the stabilized keys they're also more quiet than my POK3R with reds. Not sure if I'm using the right term, but the keycaps aren't cut (or sanded?) very well. there's some extra plastic on a lot of the keys on the bottom.
Basically, I really like these switches. The keycaps could be better, but I had always planned to swap them. And I need to learn how to swap the stabs on this keyboard. I don't see any extra stabs in the box so I hope I'm not out of luck.
It's okay. XMIT is sending me another stab so I'm happy. I do kind of wish I had given the 50g a shot, but I preferred the bamboo over black. I tend to like white cases/bases instead of black. Bamboo was a good compromise and it's more unique looking. Maybe next time there's an order for these I'll try the 50g. I wonder how the upstroke sound compares. The upstroke, while probably not louder than my Cherry MX boards has the illusion of being louder due to having a softer downstroke.Received mine, but I don't have much to say at the moment. The right stabilizer for my spacebar arrived busted though, and the keyboard was very loose in the box. Given how oversized the box is I imagine they used the same ones for TKL and 60%. I can see why it was damaged just banging around in there.
I do like the feel of the keys. They definitely feel lighter than 70g. XMIT was certainly right in saying the 70g are closer to Reds than they are something like Blacks. outside of the stabilized keys they're also more quiet than my POK3R with reds. Not sure if I'm using the right term, but the keycaps aren't cut (or sanded?) very well. there's some extra plastic on a lot of the keys on the bottom.
Basically, I really like these switches. The keycaps could be better, but I had always planned to swap them. And I need to learn how to swap the stabs on this keyboard. I don't see any extra stabs in the box so I hope I'm not out of luck.
The broken stabilizer and keycap flashing would be frustrating – you may have been among the less fortunate buyers. My 104 arrived very well packed and in excellent shape. I’ve rearranged a few caps, and didn’t notice any spare plastic.
My experience is similar to yours on the noise. Overall, the switches are quieter than I expected. The primary exception is the spacebar, which has a high-pitched, tinny noise that I find a little distracting. Some of the other stabilized keys have a slightly higher pitch, but not particularly noticeable. Some of the keys on the bottom row have a lower-pitched sound, a little like a Topre thock.
Like you, I’m enjoying the typing experience so far. The 50g model feels similar to Cherry reds, but with a softer landing.
The switches are not available in a standalone package, the current design integrates into a custom PCB. In theory there could be something that is mechanically compatible with Cherry MX but it would require quite a lot of PCB rework. These switches require power and ground as well as sense lines. It's much more like Topre than Cherry MX in this regard.I actually really like the clip-in design. Much easier to customise springs and replace than if the switches had to be desoldered. Of course you have to be careful with tolerances as I'm assuming the Hall effect sensing assembly is extremely sensitive to changes.
Given that, I'm not sure how meaningful the answers to the rest of your questions are, but I'll try. The switches are just about the same size as a Cherry MX switch, I don't have precise numbers handy. Since these are built around a PCB the magnet doesn't protrude at all, the entire assembly sits atop the PCB. The magnet would be centered over the PCB hole but not go through.
If I were to offer a discrete switch component - which is a long way away - I would likely design it so that the entire mechanism sits on top of the PCB, and that little through hole is where I expose the power and ground connectors. But given that all of this would require tiny custom PCBs and tooling for a new part I don't see it happening any time soon. The "unified PCB" approach for full boards is so cost effective that doing discrete switches would be a huge step backward.
Thanks for your interest, great questions! :)
I actually really like the clip-in design. Much easier to customise springs and replace than if the switches had to be desoldered. Of course you have to be careful with tolerances as I'm assuming the Hall effect sensing assembly is extremely sensitive to changes.
Fair enough. Is it electrically sensitive though? I was using it for a bit with the case torn off (doing a teardown) resting it on a cloth and the F4 key started actuating sporadically.I actually really like the clip-in design. Much easier to customise springs and replace than if the switches had to be desoldered. Of course you have to be careful with tolerances as I'm assuming the Hall effect sensing assembly is extremely sensitive to changes.
It's not /that/ sensitive. We're talking magnetic flux here from a tiny but really strong neodymium magnet. That being said, there is really only one way to clip in the switch housing (well I guess you could rotate it 180 degrees but the maximum height is constant).
Fair enough. Is it electrically sensitive though? I was using it for a bit with the case torn off (doing a teardown) resting it on a cloth and the F4 key started actuating sporadically.
@XMIT I hope to catch one in the next batch! I'd like to mod two analog switches into my Orbweaver, and I have a few questions I couldn't find answers for if you know them:Have you seen this (https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/analog-numpad-with-hall-effect-sensors-t11191.html) topic where Matt_ makes a numpad with some hall effect sensors using modified cherry switches?
1. Is there anywhere I could buy just the switches?
2. How similar is the height and width to Cherry MX switches?
3. How many millimeters is the magnet's diameter on the slider, and how far (if at all) does the magnet protrude from the case when the switch is fully pressed?
4. Would the magnet line up to the PCB's stem hole in PCB-mounted Cherrys?
I do have a magnetic screwdriver, but I can't recall if it was there at the time. Is the keyboard that sensitive to external magnetic fields?Fair enough. Is it electrically sensitive though? I was using it for a bit with the case torn off (doing a teardown) resting it on a cloth and the F4 key started actuating sporadically.
Maybe? Are you sure there wasn't a magnetic screwdriver nearby? The way the boards work, the Hall sensor pulls down a line or feeds into a FET, so it's possible that the cloth was slightly conductive or capacitive in some way.
I do have a magnetic screwdriver, but I can't recall if it was there at the time. Is the keyboard that sensitive to external magnetic fields?
Good to know. Nah, I don't think that was the case. It hasn't reocurred since I put the case back on, though.I do have a magnetic screwdriver, but I can't recall if it was there at the time. Is the keyboard that sensitive to external magnetic fields?
Not that sensitive, no. The screwdriver would have needed to be within 1cm or so.
Do the 70cN springs feel like 45cN MX springs at least?
Does the old stacking-nickels trick not work for assessing effective switch actuation and spring resistance?
Hire Unicomp to make them!
jk
The 70g switch feels mushy to me, I will try to swap to 50g spring. Anybody tried lubing the switches? Maybe just lubing the spring?
Hire Unicomp to make them!
jk
Please don't. The similarities I see between the Unicomp and XMIT are they are both priced too low. Come on now, you are in a market where people are buying $200+ (Realforce) rubber domes. Now maybe if you had a competitor I can understand wanting to stay competitive.
I guess what I'm trying to say is right now the economy is relatively (compared to 2007-2009) stable. Don't be afraid to ask for more money to deliver a better product. Remember these are not independent switches so everyone is kind of locked into whatever board these are in.
A realforce is not 'just' a rubberdome like you get with your dell desktop they are quality keyboards and if you've ever disassembled one that becomes very clear looking at the internals. And don't forget the awesome keycaps you get on realforce boards as well.
Insinuating these keyboards are even in the same league is laughable at best. I mean if you compared it to a royal kludge maybe, but there again there's a reason those are so cheap.
I'm glad I stayed away from this buy and while I'd love to try one some day I'll never buy from massdrop.
Glad to see Xmit trying to get things figured out for people having problems though.
Hire Unicomp to make them!
jk
Please don't. The similarities I see between the Unicomp and XMIT are they are both priced too low. Come on now, you are in a market where people are buying $200+ (Realforce) rubber domes. Now maybe if you had a competitor I can understand wanting to stay competitive.
I guess what I'm trying to say is right now the economy is relatively (compared to 2007-2009) stable. Don't be afraid to ask for more money to deliver a better product. Remember these are not independent switches so everyone is kind of locked into whatever board these are in.
A realforce is not 'just' a rubberdome like you get with your dell desktop they are quality keyboards and if you've ever disassembled one that becomes very clear looking at the internals. And don't forget the awesome keycaps you get on realforce boards as well.
Insinuating these keyboards are even in the same league is laughable at best. I mean if you compared it to a royal kludge maybe, but there again there's a reason those are so cheap.
But most people would think you are bat **** crazy for spending $200+ on a board that feels like a solid feeling Dell. Yes the keycaps / shell are nicer - but not $200 nicer. YMMV.
Unicomps QC isn't THAT bad though. All of the issues I have seen on Unicomp boards stem from creaky cases with poor molding quality.Hire Unicomp to make them!
jk
Please don't. The similarities I see between the Unicomp and XMIT are they are both priced too low. Come on now, you are in a market where people are buying $200+ (Realforce) rubber domes. Now maybe if you had a competitor I can understand wanting to stay competitive.
I guess what I'm trying to say is right now the economy is relatively (compared to 2007-2009) stable. Don't be afraid to ask for more money to deliver a better product. Remember these are not independent switches so everyone is kind of locked into whatever board these are in.
Unicomps QC isn't THAT bad though. All of the issues I have seen on Unicomp boards stem from creaky cases with poor molding quality.Hire Unicomp to make them!
jk
Please don't. The similarities I see between the Unicomp and XMIT are they are both priced too low. Come on now, you are in a market where people are buying $200+ (Realforce) rubber domes. Now maybe if you had a competitor I can understand wanting to stay competitive.
I guess what I'm trying to say is right now the economy is relatively (compared to 2007-2009) stable. Don't be afraid to ask for more money to deliver a better product. Remember these are not independent switches so everyone is kind of locked into whatever board these are in.
You're correct, it's not as bad as some in the GB however by pricing these boards so cheap one has to wonder if Unicomp sacrificed R&D dollars that could of went towards things like new molding / SSK / silencing, etc.
This is what I hope XMIT can avoid.
I have been typing on my 70g version for a week now, I have to say that I still prefer vintage black or lubed Gateron black.
The main issue to me is that the switch feels loose and also there is too much cushion when press down on it, feels mushy instead of crispy like MX liner switch. Not to mention the noisy upstroke sound.
I also have the 50g spring pack, I am wondering if the lighter spring will feels better?
I have been typing on my 70g version for a week now, I have to say that I still prefer vintage black or lubed Gateron black.
The main issue to me is that the switch feels loose and also there is too much cushion when press down on it, feels mushy instead of crispy like MX liner switch. Not to mention the noisy upstroke sound.
I also have the 50g spring pack, I am wondering if the lighter spring will feels better?
I wonder if the 50g is quieter. My board is quieter than I expected -- the noise is mostly on the upstroke, but it's not that loud. When I test it next to a board with o-ringed Cherry browns, the XMIT is higher pitched but noticeably quieter.
I've got the 50g springs on right now. It's about as noisy as my MX reds board but the sound on my reds board is more from the caps than anything. The noise on the XMIT 50g board is more from the switches themselves. The Ducky board with GMK caps is a lower sound while the XMIT board with stock caps is definitely higher pitched. I still haven't had a chance to replace the stock caps on it with some SA caps but I would expect that to change the sound profile a bit. Might try the GMK caps on there as well but we'll see. I'm not always the most interested in playing the key swapping game.
I've got the 50g springs on right now. It's about as noisy as my MX reds board but the sound on my reds board is more from the caps than anything. The noise on the XMIT 50g board is more from the switches themselves. The Ducky board with GMK caps is a lower sound while the XMIT board with stock caps is definitely higher pitched. I still haven't had a chance to replace the stock caps on it with some SA caps but I would expect that to change the sound profile a bit. Might try the GMK caps on there as well but we'll see. I'm not always the most interested in playing the key swapping game.
Caps do affect the noise. Compared to the stock keycaps, a set of oem-profile Tai Hao's that I put on the XMIT produce slightly lower noise and lower pitch. I noticed a particular improvement with the spacebar, which I find less distracting with the new cap.
I've got the 50g springs on right now. It's about as noisy as my MX reds board but the sound on my reds board is more from the caps than anything. The noise on the XMIT 50g board is more from the switches themselves. The Ducky board with GMK caps is a lower sound while the XMIT board with stock caps is definitely higher pitched. I still haven't had a chance to replace the stock caps on it with some SA caps but I would expect that to change the sound profile a bit. Might try the GMK caps on there as well but we'll see. I'm not always the most interested in playing the key swapping game.
Caps do affect the noise. Compared to the stock keycaps, a set of oem-profile Tai Hao's that I put on the XMIT produce slightly lower noise and lower pitch. I noticed a particular improvement with the spacebar, which I find less distracting with the new cap.
It would be great to hear from someone who put fully sculptured SA on one of these boards (and some photos would be awesome too).
...Overall, the switches are quieter than I expected...
I'm starting to look into 85g springs for next time.
I do have a magnetic screwdriver...
The similarities I see between the Unicomp and XMIT are they are both priced too low. Come on now, you are in a market where people are buying $200+ (Realforce) rubber domes. Now maybe if you had a competitor I can understand wanting to stay competitive... I guess what I'm trying to say is right now the economy is relatively (compared to 2007-2009) stable. Don't be afraid to ask for more money to deliver a better product...
Insinuating these keyboards are even in the same league is laughable at best. I mean if you compared it to a royal kludge maybe, but there again there's a reason those are so cheap... I'm glad I stayed away from this buy...
Unicomps QC isn't THAT bad though. All of the issues I have seen on Unicomp boards stem from creaky cases with poor molding quality.
decided to use "prestige pricing" (pricing something extra-high to emphasize its novelty)
Comments on mine:
Actuation height may vary depending on switch. I bought a TKL board, where 2 keys would actuate at light press with no O-rings, 8 of them would actuate at light press with 1.5mm O-ring and the rest worked fine with 2.5mm O-rings. This would be the the part I'm the most disappointed over as you'd expect hall-effect to be consistent.
Some of the switches comes with defect/malformed hooks. Deformations vary, most common ones would be short (can't latch onto PCB), "hunchback" (rounded/bump on the top, difficult to press through PCB) and "spineless" (bent at 30-40 degrees instead of 90 degrees, can't latch onto PCB)
The bamboo board also gets a lot of problems when exposed to moisture. This is my own fault since painting it = moisture but I'm writing this down for anyone who wants to try same stuff:
-The middle wood section will bend/distort after absorbing water. Mine bent a lot and broke in two locations from the tension while I was screwing together top and bottom pieces. If you want to paint the board keep all 3 parts screwed together tightly to prevent bigger distortion.
-The distances for the top section warped a bit, making the stabilizers no longer fit perfectly with the keycaps when slotted into the holes for stabilizers. This results in the keys using the stabilizers getting stuck after pressing them down.
Lastly, I suggest scrapping the selling the board pre-assembled and instead simply sell the board as kits. There's no risk from damaged wares due to sloppy assembling and the parts will probably arrive intact provided that it's shipped in a reasonable packaging. People who'd care about hall effect are most probably at enthusiast anyways. They'll probably want to fiddle with the board themselves so paying for pre-assembled pieces seems like waste of money to me. Oh and include more spare switches. Looking at current quality the 3 spares is far from enough. I'd be looking at somewhere of 9-13 spares to be on the safe side. I would really appreciate if I could get another 10 of them sent to me so I can have consistent actuation point on all keys across the board.
XMIT, I look forward to seeing you tonight on Top Clack... For those who haven't watched here is the link: https://www.twitch.tv/topclack
I look forward to a version of these boards that you don't have to open up and "fix" (lube, clip, re-spring, etc.) in order to make them feel right.
...The bamboo board also gets a lot of problems when exposed to moisture. This is my own fault since painting it = moisture but I'm writing this down for anyone who wants to try same stuff...
Lastly, I suggest scrapping the selling the board pre-assembled and instead simply sell the board as kits... People who'd care about hall effect are most probably at enthusiast anyways. They'll probably want to fiddle with the board themselves so paying for pre-assembled pieces seems like waste of money to me...
XMIT, I look forward to seeing you tonight on Top Clack... For those who haven't watched here is the link: https://www.twitch.tv/topclack
I sure wanted to see this, but it says it's "offline" now. Anyone know where it can still be viewed?
https://www.twitch.tv/topclack/videos/all
OR you can see it via manofinterests youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTJRSH0vGvD0qzxj2TnoKXA/videos
To be fair, XMIT isn't a big KB company with an entire QA department. He developed this board from scratch. When you do something this ambitious and detailed, there are bound to be a few issues. Fortunately, most of us enjoy tweaking boards and providing feedback. That's why GH's so great.
To be fair, XMIT isn't a big KB company with an entire QA department. He developed this board from scratch. When you do something this ambitious and detailed, there are bound to be a few issues. Fortunately, most of us enjoy tweaking boards and providing feedback. That's why GH's so great.
Oh, I understand all of that, and I think XMIT is doing yoeman's work putting all this together. The fact that anyone is working so diligently to revive Hall Effect keyboards is worthy of celebration.
It's just that I am not into tweaking, hacking, or (re-)building keyboards. Swapping keycaps (and installing silencing rings on TMX sliders when I'm desperate enough) is where I draw the line. If a keyboard isn't a mature, mostly problem-free product that has all the essential specs I need right out of the box, then I'm not going to get too excited about it, much less purchase it. I'm not really into investing in other people's R&D. Don't get me wrong, such investment is a worthy thing, it's just not my thing.
Therefore, I will wait for these HE boards to become more polished, and to come in the configuration I am looking forward without me having to open it up and "tweak", "hack", or "mod" it in any way (aside from deploying my favorite MX-stemmed keycaps). At the end of the day, I just want to type on it, I don't want to (re-)build it.
@tp4: there's no mention of anything like that on the manual that came with the board.
If it's possible to implement calibration or adjusting actuation for individual switch then please make it available. I need this.
Per the topclack interview we know XMIT doesn't want to get rid of the current manufacturers but I got really excited when it was suggested it may theoretically be possible to move manufacturing to the states.
I don't know if it would be in Unicomp's wheel house or if Signature Plastics can create backlit caps for it; but it would be extremely cool to get this board made as much as possible in the US.
Following Skull_Angels mention I've managed to remove the magnets from the slides, and can now "calibrate" the keys to actuate at the distance I want them to by altering the height of the magnets. Going to take some time but it's all good now.
Keys actuating at different heights - The sliders are not all uniform; many of the sliders have slightly different shape, I'm not sure if this is a die issue or injection (more likely) issue. While this is an issue, the bigger issue is that the magnet placement in the sliders doesn't seem to be uniform.
does a depth rod from a (digi cal) fit into the slot for where the magnet is clasped.
Following Skull_Angels mention I've managed to remove the magnets from the slides, and can now "calibrate" the keys to actuate at the distance I want them to by altering the height of the magnets. Going to take some time but it's all good now.
does a depth rod from a (digi cal) fit into the slot for where the magnet is clasped.
it'd be interesting if you can determine the precise difference between distance and actuation.
Keys sticking may not have anything to do with hitting keys off-center at times - There is a glue used to help hold the magnets in place on MOST of the sliders, and it seems to stay tacky rather then fully drying... Keys actuating at different heights - The sliders are not all uniform; many of the sliders have slightly different shape, I'm not sure if this is a die issue or injection (more likely) issue. While this is an issue, the bigger issue is that the magnet placement in the sliders doesn't seem to be uniform.
My board came in decent condition with the only gripe being the quality of the case... I'll probably be keeping this one as a museum piece for now...
But, I'd imagine it's kind of like a drug-dealer situation where, XMIT/ Massdrop want to remain exclusive flippers of this company's keyboard for as long as possible.. without giving away their sources, because if they gave away the source, then they can't remain as middlemen...
...If you moved manufacturing to the USA, just to match what is already being sold, this keyboard would cost you $100 to make. And you'll probably be paying $200 for it because that's how marketing utilizes -Made in USA-.
Well, time to spend some more hours on this. My personal favorite keyboard right now is using gat reds where I've spend time adjusting the leaves in each switch so that they uniformly actuate at 0.5-1mm. This is going to take quite some time with hall effect board. The results should be good however.
Speaking of XMIT's cool box, I don't think anyone remarked on the lid's magnetic catches, either. That's class. The fit's so close, at first I thought I had to slide an inner box out sideways. Okay, I admit it, I actually tried to do that. Fortunately there's no photo documentation. :?)Keys sticking may not have anything to do with hitting keys off-center at times - There is a glue used to help hold the magnets in place on MOST of the sliders, and it seems to stay tacky rather then fully drying... Keys actuating at different heights - The sliders are not all uniform; many of the sliders have slightly different shape, I'm not sure if this is a die issue or injection (more likely) issue. While this is an issue, the bigger issue is that the magnet placement in the sliders doesn't seem to be uniform.
Considering how carefully and accurately my board seems to have been made, I'm amazed to hear about these irregularities. I can only guess that some of you got boards from earlier production runs.
I've used my share of MKs, and speaking for myself, I can't feel any irregularities in how this board actuates. I realize some of you guys have considerably more experience, though, and may be more sensitive (i.e. perceptive) to such things.
Just curious: Did you actually feel these variances? Or did you need to examine the parts to determine them?
Or maybe you used weights? That's fair game, of course, since GH is as much about technology and measurement as it is esthetics.My board came in decent condition with the only gripe being the quality of the case... I'll probably be keeping this one as a museum piece for now...
LOL, that doesn't seem far away from the truth. It's remarkable to realize these are the first HE boards in—what, 20 years?—and maybe even the first ever that weren't produced for specific (and often, secret) proprietary applications.But, I'd imagine it's kind of like a drug-dealer situation where, XMIT/ Massdrop want to remain exclusive flippers of this company's keyboard for as long as possible.. without giving away their sources, because if they gave away the source, then they can't remain as middlemen...
Maybe you're not being serious—but geez, I think we need to cut XMIT a bit of slack. This was a huge undertaking for one person, working with a manufacturer halfway around the world. Most of us would never imagine taking on something like this.
And it's not like he bought a bunch of existing boards and resold them. As he's meticulously described here, this idea existed in quite a rudimentary form when he got started. So the "drug dealer" analogy seems pretty inappropriate. (Well, okay, MKs are a type of drug habit—but besides that.)...If you moved manufacturing to the USA, just to match what is already being sold, this keyboard would cost you $100 to make. And you'll probably be paying $200 for it because that's how marketing utilizes -Made in USA-.
Indeed, it's amazing what Unicomp has managed to do with their US-made buckling spring boards. People site little flaws in them, but if U. tried to make them to IBM's standards, they'd need to charge three times as much to stay afloat.Well, time to spend some more hours on this. My personal favorite keyboard right now is using gat reds where I've spend time adjusting the leaves in each switch so that they uniformly actuate at 0.5-1mm. This is going to take quite some time with hall effect board. The results should be good however.
It's amazing (maybe even pathological, LOL) that you guys are this good. And XMIT must've been prepared for his boards to be gone over here with fine-tooth combs. Still, I don't envy any product developer who throws his boards to the techno-wolves like this. :?)
Wobble! That's the word I'm looking for. There does seem to be a bit of... a feel not quite as stable as my Cherry MX reds Ducky board going on there. I'm not quite sure I'd call it wobble but the switches don't quite feel as stable as the MX reds do.There is a bit more wobble on the XMIT board compared to other boards. Couple that with the higher-pitched pingy sound (particularly on the space bar)compared to other boards, and the overall fit and finish doesn't feel as if it's in the same league with the best keyboards out there.
The way the currency is pegged. we get roughly a ..3 to 1 on production... If you were to spend usd $1 in the us, you can produce something of usd $3 quality in china...
Wobble! That's the word I'm looking for. There does seem to be a bit of... a feel not quite as stable as my Cherry MX reds Ducky board going on there. I'm not quite sure I'd call it wobble but the switches don't quite feel as stable as the MX reds do.
Wobble! That's the word I'm looking for. There does seem to be a bit of... a feel not quite as stable as my Cherry MX reds Ducky board going on there. I'm not quite sure I'd call it wobble but the switches don't quite feel as stable as the MX reds do.
I've been using my XMIT board since it arrived, and it feels no less steady than my Cherry MX boards. There's a tiny bit of lateral key play, but when I press a key down, it goes down, not sideways at all. When I'm typing, I don't notice any looseness.
I also haven't had any problem with any keys sticking when pressed off-center. Even keys like Backspace and Enter work fine when pressed on their outer edges.
Well, I guess it depends on how much of a perfectionist one is...
I have noticed a couple of odd things about this board's backlighting:
When I resume my Win 8.1 notebook from Sleep mode, the backlighting comes on even when I'd turned it off (Fn+Space). The board remembers which lighting mode it was last in, so shouldn't it be able to remember that lighting was off? Was this an oversight?
And sometimes I return to find the keyboard lit up even though Windows is still in Sleep mode. None of my other backlighted boards do this. (And yes, I've opened this board's settings and cleared "Allow this device to wake the computer"—even though it's not actually "waking" it.) Ideas?
It may seem hypocritical to buy (and rave about) a keyboard made there. But with brave little Unicomp being the sole exception, you can't buy a new MK that made in the U.S. (or almost any other kind of product, for that matter). I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know.
As for getting stuck, with SA caps, I really couldn't use the XMIT board for work as the \| key would frequently get stuck down with the cap \| cap catching on the ]} cap when trying to come up.
As for getting stuck, with SA caps, I really couldn't use the XMIT board for work as the \| key would frequently get stuck down with the cap \| cap catching on the ]} cap when trying to come up.
That's rather alarming to a fan of SA like I am.
No way for us to guess- does the seller say the space bar is all that was wrong? Are they willing to test it, or let you?Yes. That's all that is wrong. And as I've said, it's documented in this thread. :p
Seems like 50g springs should be more a rare option than a standard, something like Gateron Yellows. I'm curious to see where the 70g land as I'm a fan of MX reds but found blacks a bit too heavy.
Seems like 50g springs should be more a rare option than a standard, something like Gateron Yellows. I'm curious to see where the 70g land as I'm a fan of MX reds but found blacks a bit too heavy.
Imo, the 70g springs feel like Cherry MX Red with less rebound.
Seems like 50g springs should be more a rare option than a standard, something like Gateron Yellows. I'm curious to see where the 70g land as I'm a fan of MX reds but found blacks a bit too heavy.
Imo, the 70g springs feel like Cherry MX Red with less rebound.
Less rebound as in not rebounding as quickly? I admit the 50g springs feel like they return a bit slower than MX reds. Not overly feeling like putting the 70g springs on just yet so I'm back on my MX reds for now but I do want to give the 70g springs a go in the future.
Seems like 50g springs should be more a rare option than a standard, something like Gateron Yellows. I'm curious to see where the 70g land as I'm a fan of MX reds but found blacks a bit too heavy.
Imo, the 70g springs feel like Cherry MX Red with less rebound.
Less rebound as in not rebounding as quickly? I admit the 50g springs feel like they return a bit slower than MX reds. Not overly feeling like putting the 70g springs on just yet so I'm back on my MX reds for now but I do want to give the 70g springs a go in the future.
Yes. Rather than feeling like they push your fingers off, they seem to trail behind. It's not bad, just a different typing experience
Seems like 50g springs should be more a rare option than a standard, something like Gateron Yellows. I'm curious to see where the 70g land as I'm a fan of MX reds but found blacks a bit too heavy.
Imo, the 70g springs feel like Cherry MX Red with less rebound.
Less rebound as in not rebounding as quickly? I admit the 50g springs feel like they return a bit slower than MX reds. Not overly feeling like putting the 70g springs on just yet so I'm back on my MX reds for now but I do want to give the 70g springs a go in the future.
Yes. Rather than feeling like they push your fingers off, they seem to trail behind. It's not bad, just a different typing experience
That will be interesting then. I like the snappiness of my MX reds board so I was hoping to get that out of the 70g springs as the 50s aren't managing it. Almost wondering if heavier springs are needed for that on hall effect switches due to the nature of the switches. Sounds like some more experimentation there is needed.
Seems like 50g springs should be more a rare option than a standard, something like Gateron Yellows. I'm curious to see where the 70g land as I'm a fan of MX reds but found blacks a bit too heavy.
Imo, the 70g springs feel like Cherry MX Red with less rebound.
Less rebound as in not rebounding as quickly? I admit the 50g springs feel like they return a bit slower than MX reds. Not overly feeling like putting the 70g springs on just yet so I'm back on my MX reds for now but I do want to give the 70g springs a go in the future.
Yes. Rather than feeling like they push your fingers off, they seem to trail behind. It's not bad, just a different typing experience
That will be interesting then. I like the snappiness of my MX reds board so I was hoping to get that out of the 70g springs as the 50s aren't managing it. Almost wondering if heavier springs are needed for that on hall effect switches due to the nature of the switches. Sounds like some more experimentation there is needed.
It's not the switch, the spring's properties (gauge, length, number of coils) cause them to act differently.
Somewhere someone is laughing over their bowl of rice "dropping the soap again eh?"
Somewhere someone is laughing over their bowl of rice "dropping the soap again eh?"
As the zeppelins converge on the raccoon's bar mitzvah, my eggplant cries out for a dawning of neutrality.
These work differently from your regular mechanical-contact switches, i.e., they're not drop-in replacements.