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Build Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ODbtgi63lC6dMuo9HLnzPMIQW23OrphRB0QA2bqjVZo/edit?usp=sharing)
[attachimg=1] [attachimg=18] [attachimg=19]
Update Sep 7: The Group Buy
The GB launches on 9/20 at 8PM PST. It will run for one week, or until we reach 40 units. I have no idea which will happen first. Gonna set an MOQ of 25, though.
A full kit with the TBR-Prime layout will go for $365 + PP fees and shipping. Full kits with TBR-A and TBR-B layouts will run for $390. If you instead choose to get a custom layout (choosing a specific left side (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/d00e5b9efa0233b7d5761dcd04fb4b5e), top row (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e74df27f94eb5110c1ad3e65fd1da2be), and right side (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/12a917bd155fc2528dfed551041ad3b4)), that will be $465. You will also be able to order extra PCBs and top cases - PCBs will be an extra $60, for the top case it will be $150 for the Prime, $175 for the A or B, and $250 for a custom.
I've already had prototypes made for the TBR-A (top) and TBR-B (bottom) layouts (https://imgur.com/GAZQa3Y), but before we launch the GB, I wanted to do kind of a second IC, so that I can nail down what exact configurations would best suit most people. It's just 4 questions, multiple choice, should only take a minute. If you just want the TBR-Prime layout, that's locked in so you don't need to worry about filling this out.
IC Form 2 (https://forms.gle/mKTs2E8y5ArwMord6)
OP:
Keyboard design always starts with the layout for me. For this board, I set out to create something with the functionality of a 75% or TKL, but with added features like a rotary encoder, numpad enter, and macro keys, all in a tight and exceptionally usable package. I ended up coming up with two primary approaches to this goal, and I decided that I wanted both.
The Case
In the BattleTech universe, OmniMechs are unique for their ability to quickly change their loadouts, with the Timber Wolf being a fan favorite 75-tonner. This keyboard follows a similar philosophy, with the ability to quickly change between layouts on the same chassis.
To that end, the Timber Wolf is top-mounted, allowing the entire top piece and PCB to be quickly switched out with an alternate layout. It is a plateless board, with the PCB affixed to the top case in something reminiscent of a burger-mount, in an attempt to foster a relaxed keyfeel with excellent acoustics.
If quick-swapping doesn't appeal to you (I might be unique in wanting that feature), you may still be interested in one of the possible layouts. The plan is to allow people to pick any layout supported by the PCB, and order a top case based on that layout. Hopefully with no MOQs (though there will be downsides, such as added cost). I also want to have a "Prime" configuration, though (or maybe 2) based on what layout options are most popular from this IC, and offer that layout at a lower price. Hopefully this serves as the best of both worlds!
The Timber Wolf will have an aluminum construction with no weight, but it's not exactly light - Fusion360 estimates it at over 2.4KG for just the top and bottom case. It uses an 8° typing angle and 19.05mm switch spacing, and bumpon strips.
Stylistically, I wanted to go for something in the flavor of western mech designs, with an industrial look and angular features rather than organic curves. I'm very excited about how it turned out, and I hope you like the look of the renders as much as I do, though colors are still very TBD.
[attach=2] [attach=8]
The Layouts
[attach=3] [attach=5] [attach=4] [attach=9]
These four layouts are only a smattering of the possibilities. Since I plan to allow people to choose their own layout in the GB, I laid out the options in KLE, to give you a preview of the ways you will be able to customize your board. You can choose your own set-up for the left-most column (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/d00e5b9efa0233b7d5761dcd04fb4b5e), the top row & nav cluster (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e74df27f94eb5110c1ad3e65fd1da2be), and the right side (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/12a917bd155fc2528dfed551041ad3b4). In total, there are 60 combinations (but much fewer that I'd consider reasonable and expect people to actually use). You can also make your own custom layout that builds on some combination of those three sections and removes keys, but you'd have to talk to me about that and we could design the layout together (or throw something together and set it to me).
While the layouts do all have their own flavor to them, they mostly follow these tenants (most of it is self-explanatory, but I love talking about this stuff).
- 1/3u Gaps: Having only a .25u gap between separate key areas never felt like quite enough to me, and I've kept the gaps between f-key clusters at a full .5u
- Rotary Encoder: There are custom layout options that forgo this feature, but I truly love having one
- Nav Cluster: Inventive nav cluster shapes are fun, but maintaining the original shape (more or less) will always be the best option
- 2u Delete: The PCB does support putting 2 1u keys in this area, but a 2u delete key (using a numpad + keycap) really feels great
- Numpad Enter: Easily my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue I've had with TKLs - hitting numpad enter with my thumb has been a habit ingrained in me for my whole life, and I've talked to some others who feel the same way
- Macro Column: Too useful for my workflow to give up dedicated macro keys, and this way all the artisan fans have a place to flex.
In addition to these wild customization options, the 60% block supports other, more normal options - both ISO and ANSI layouts, as well as split backspace, stepped caps, and a few bottom row options - focusing around compact versions of the standard bottom row, Tsangan, and WKL.
The PCB
- AtMega32u4 running QMK
- Daughterboard for center-mounted USB with fuse & ESD protection
- Lock light with light pipe, shroud to prevent bleed, and trimmer to control brightness
- PCB cuts aimed at consistent keyfeel over maximum flex
- South-facing switches
- Fully via stitched lel
[attach=6] [attach=7]
Thanks to PheonixStarr for the sick renders in red with GMK Jamón (zoom in on the aluminum in those images and check out that bead blast texture, mm) and the wonderful denizens of ai03's discord server for feedback on the design!
Extra Renders
Feel free to request a render of any layout you're interested in and case color
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Progress Log
[2019/06/13] Prototype of the final design is fully 3D printed, assembled, functional, and delightful. I've decided on a factory to do the prototype, and am just waiting for preliminary results of the IC to decide which layout to get proto'd.
[2019/06/16] Proto is ordered! I ordered it with layout 1, in Smoke Black (something close to the dark grey/black in the GMK Oblivion render, but maybe a bit lighter). Updated IC text with links to KLE pages laying out customization options, as well as more text better explaining (hopefully) how ordering will work. Support for 7u spacebar layouts has been removed, due to them compromising the PCB fixing pins on adjacent, more important alternate keys. For this same reason, the ISO shift, off-center 6U spacebar, and right side of the split backspace will have their switch footprints rotated 90°, which may stretch (or in the worst case, break) keycap stems. Obviously this is not ideal, but the alternative was removing support for these keys altogether. My own experience with using rotated switches is that it stretches keycaps a bit, but not to the point of them no longer sticking on the switch stem, and I've never had a cap break. Still, do it at your own risk.
FAQ
Pricing?
I didn't put it in the IC because it's really up in the air, but due to the low expected quantities, I'm expecting it to run for at least $300, probably more like $350, with unique layouts obviously costing extra. Buying an extra top case and PCB (along with the associated screws and gaskets of course) will probably be an added $200-$250 as well. [UPDATE 6/16] Based on updated quotes from the factory, I might actually be able to get close to that $300 mark for the most popular layout, but still no guarantees!
Do I need to use 2u vertical keys?
Nope, the PCB will support layouts that use exclusively 1u keys in those spots.
Polycarb?
Sorry, the added cost from adding that option would be too much for this GB.
Plate?
I can totally understand wanting a plate, but plateless was a central element of this board's design and it'd require basically a ground-up redesign to accommodate a plate. Not ruling it out for the long term future, but it's improbable.
GB when?
Hopefully a month or two
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wtf
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this is wacky and i love it
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any price estimates?
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Needs an ISO enter for good measure, please.
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What's the purpose of the vertical plus?
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I've spent a few minutes trying to digest and/or understand it.
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When do you envision using the numpad enter? In what scenario is it better?
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any price estimates?
Didn't want to include one in the IC because it's pretty up in the air, but probably between 300 and 400 (maybe both, depending on the option you pick). I'm trying to keep it as low as I can (obviously), but due to low quantities it won't be that low
Needs an ISO enter for good measure, please.
I'll get to work on that render tonight!
wtf
I've spent a few minutes trying to digest and/or understand it.
this is wacky and i love it
lol that's what I like to hear
What's the purpose of the vertical plus?
It is a delete key, but since there are no mx 2u delete keycaps, I use a + key for realism. The spot can accommodate 2 1u keys for those that are more sensitive about legends, though
When do you envision using the numpad enter? In what scenario is it better?
numpad enter is all about being able to hit enter super easily with your right thumb while using both mouse and keyboard. i imagine this is the sort of thing that some people like me are way into, and others don't care about at all, depending on workflows and use cases
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As long as the numpad enter and + sign aren't imposed in the layout, this looks good.
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This layout is wild and I want to try it. I'm in.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
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No big-ass enter option? I'm out.
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As long as the numpad enter and + sign aren't imposed in the layout, this looks good.
Yup, you've got options there. Cards on the table, my proto PCB im typing on right now only has one option in the bottom right with no numpad enter (the one in the render), but i've already mocked up a pcb that allows you to split it into two keys as well on the other versions
This layout is wild and I want to try it. I'm in.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
:D
No big-ass enter option? I'm out.
hahaha, legit was struggling with whether i wanted to support bae. im still struggling...
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+1 for mentioning Battletech :thumb:
-1 for insane layouts (or should I give a +1??)
Are you thinking about incorporating any Battletech art on the board anywhere??
We might have to geekout over BT stuff later over PM's
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I personally find the 2u keys extremely offputting in terms of aesthetics, it's like the Satisfaction and the TC-V3 had a very strange looking, oversized baby. Case looks nice, though.
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We might have to geekout over BT stuff later over PM's
i'm always down ;)
Are you thinking about incorporating any Battletech art on the board anywhere??
i'm thinking about it, but it'd be as part of the weight design (a simplified tbr paperdoll mmff i wanna do it so bad), and i'm leaning towards not doing a weight due to added costs
I personally find the 2u keys extremely offputting in terms of aesthetics, it's like the Satisfaction and the TC-V3 had a very strange looking, oversized baby. Case looks nice, though.
haha yeah i was defo expecting that exact analogy. but you can replace the 2u verts with 2 1us, fwiw. working on a model/render for that rn
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Please consider for layout 2 (blue accents): remove 'End' and 'Pg Dn' from the navigation cluster. I don't like the asymmetry here. If you could add another 1u key to the left of 'End' that would work too, or perhaps just take out the 'Insert'.
Also, on the left hand side, bring the 'Fn' up in line with the other three keys (no space between them) and then move the whole thing down so that the gaps from the top to bottom are equal in size. I think it would look very pretty this way.
Lastly, the 2u '+' key can be turned into 2, 1u's correct? I hope so. Otherwise, not bad! :)
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I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?
For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?
Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)
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I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?
For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?
Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)
I agree, not only for the alignment reasons but some people may not like the deep flex feeling plate-less provides.
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Please consider for layout 2 (blue accents): remove 'End' and 'Pg Dn' from the navigation cluster. I don't like the asymmetry here. If you could add another 1u key to the left of 'End' that would work too, or perhaps just take out the 'Insert'.
Also, on the left hand side, bring the 'Fn' up in line with the other three keys (no space between them) and then move the whole thing down so that the gaps from the top to bottom are equal in size. I think it would look very pretty this way.
Lastly, the 2u '+' key can be turned into 2, 1u's correct? I hope so. Otherwise, not bad! :)
part of this board's gimmick is that you can customize the layout completely, so you could do all of those things! IC has a link to a KLE page that shows you all the places you can place switches, but you can take switches away from wherever (and if you'd rather describe what you want in the GB, i'd be happy to make the KLE for you too)
I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?
For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?
Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)
I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?
For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?
Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)
I agree, not only for the alignment reasons but some people may not like the deep flex feeling plate-less provides.
i wanna say yes, but i dont think i can. it would require its own pcb and top piece and plate design, which is a lot of time and added costs. theoretically possible though, and i'd take on an independent commission after this runs (if it runs), but yeah :\ sorry. i get the issue with switch straightening, but fwiw i got most of my keys straight without much trouble at all. there were two trouble keys, and as a result i'm considering cutting support for 6u centered space (split would still work) and iso left shift to eliminate those issues (maybe flip the trouble switch sideways and let people make the choice to stretch their caps...but i know some people wouldn't read my warnings). but even those keys are straight on my proto, it just took an extra couple minutes.
as far as flex goes, i get it - i also like rigid boards (i like both flexy and rigid, with different switches), but yeah. i'm pretty comfortable sticking to my guns on this one, since i think it's a better keyboard without a plate. it's worth noting though, that rather than having a massive flex cut down the center of the pcb which gives you insane flex, i put my flex cuts on the outside to try to keep flex consistent and reasonable on the inside area. it's always going to be more flexy in the center than towards the outside, but i think i did a great job at avoiding hot and cold spots
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The cluster on the right looks super messy, but I'm all for experimenting with new layouts.
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:eek:
I would be so in. Super unique design and not missing any functionality you wouldn't have from a standard TKL. I'd love to participate in the GB if possible.
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this ain't it chief
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I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?
For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?
Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)
I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?
For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?
Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)
I agree, not only for the alignment reasons but some people may not like the deep flex feeling plate-less provides.
i wanna say yes, but i dont think i can. it would require its own pcb and top piece and plate design, which is a lot of time and added costs. theoretically possible though, and i'd take on an independent commission after this runs (if it runs), but yeah :\ sorry. i get the issue with switch straightening, but fwiw i got most of my keys straight without much trouble at all. there were two trouble keys, and as a result i'm considering cutting support for 6u centered space (split would still work) and iso left shift to eliminate those issues (maybe flip the trouble switch sideways and let people make the choice to stretch their caps...but i know some people wouldn't read my warnings). but even those keys are straight on my proto, it just took an extra couple minutes.
as far as flex goes, i get it - i also like rigid boards (i like both flexy and rigid, with different switches), but yeah. i'm pretty comfortable sticking to my guns on this one, since i think it's a better keyboard without a plate it's worth noting though, that rather than having a massive flex cut down the center of the pcb which gives you insane flex, i put my flex cuts on the outside to try to keep flex consistent and reasonable on the inside area (it's always going to be more flexy in the center than towards the outside, but i think i did a great job at avoiding hot and cold spots)
totally understandable, but a shame to hear nonetheless. hoping you won't kill iso left shift, as that'd kill any chances of me buying this board.
guess i gotta git gud :D
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That is a very interesting layout lol
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Just a slight nick-pick, can you please color code the KLE, if possible, for easier readability?
And more importantly, can you please upload an expanded case view? I'm not quite understanding how this thing is put together. Lastly, can you please check that there isn't a typo in your reply "IC has a link to a KLE page that shows you all the places you can place switches, but you can take switches away from wherever
Is that "can" or "can't" take away switches? Sorry. Just tryin to understand this wild case.
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Just a slight nick-pick, can you please color code the KLE, if possible, for easier readability?
And more importantly, can you please upload an expanded case view? I'm not quite understanding how this thing is put together. Lastly, can you please check that there isn't a typo in your reply "IC has a link to a KLE page that shows you all the places you can place switches, but you can take switches away from wherever
Is that "can" or "can't" take away switches? Sorry. Just tryin to understand this wild case.
i'm on it (both things)
you can. im planning to offer basically one-offs of top cases to accommodate whatever weird layout someone wants to throw in there. the downside is obviously price and QA (i'll be less able to order extras and cherry pick the best for layouts with low order quantities). now, im not promising unlimited customization just yet, because that's a conversation i need to have with the manufacturer, but based on quotes im getting for protos it should be possible without having to charge an obsene premium. worst case (oof those two words are tempting fate) is i'll offer a few different top case options and have low moq's
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wtf this is lit
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Some constructive criticism if I can- you may want to make this idea a bit more clear on the OP. Some folks will be instantly turned off when they see the wacky layouts; however, if a large amount of customization is possible - and very boldly and clearly stated - that will bring back in and may even appeal to those who were first turned off.
Just trying to help. It's def. a cool concept. Hopefully the plate-less part won't end up being a deal-breaker for some.
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Some constructive criticism if I can- you may want to make this idea a bit more clear on the OP. Some folks will be instantly turned off when they see the wacky layouts; however, if a large amount of customization is possible - and very boldly and clearly stated - that will bring back in and may even appeal to those who were first turned off.
Just trying to help. It's def. a cool concept. Hopefully the plate-less part won't end up being a deal-breaker for some.
Good shout dude. I spent a while editing it down so that it wasn't a massive wall of text, think I went a bit too far in this case
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Felt sad because I missed out on Satisfaction75. Not anymore. :D
Glad the PCB supports so many cool layouts! ISO support has be excited too. This looks amazing.
How about split space (2.25u+1.25u+2.75u)?
EDIT: Ah, well now I see it's a 7u spacebar, so even if a split design were to be explored, it would have to be different sizes. Anyway, the design is really interesting, and I'm sure when gets decided through the course of this IC will be great.
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
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Some constructive criticism if I can- you may want to make this idea a bit more clear on the OP. Some folks will be instantly turned off when they see the wacky layouts; however, if a large amount of customization is possible - and very boldly and clearly stated - that will bring back in and may even appeal to those who were first turned off.
Just trying to help. It's def. a cool concept. Hopefully the plate-less part won't end up being a deal-breaker for some.
Good shout dude. I spent a while editing it down so that it wasn't a massive wall of text, think I went a bit too far in this case
No problem! Thanks for being open to feedback. That's not always the case.
And I see you've already implemented some changes. I appreciated that!
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If this layout is possible, I'd love for you to consider it as an option for those who are a bit more reserved when it comes to wacky layouts.
[attachimg=1]
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the more I look at this the more I like it. plate-less design, lots of extra keys, and rotary encoder are all nice. interested to see how the prototype eventually comes out
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Hope this happens, this is essentially exactly what I want. Really hope layout 3 happens
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I would be so down for layout 2 with the FN layer chopped off. If you ever make it happen... ping me!!
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I prefer it when things line up neatly with each other, so this is my proposed layout:
(https://i.imgur.com/Z8rEeOu.jpg)
Also: Split spacebars please?
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WHEN?
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I prefer it when things line up neatly with each other, so this is my proposed layout:
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/Z8rEeOu.jpg)
Also: Split spacebars please?
Not sure if the PCB supports it, but I definitely like it! :thumb:
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How about split space (2.25u+1.25u+2.75u)?
EDIT: Ah, well now I see it's a 7u spacebar, so even if a split design were to be explored, it would have to be different sizes. Anyway, the design is really interesting, and I'm sure when gets decided through the course of this IC will be great.
Yeah split space isn't an option right now, sorry! (I'd have to completely redo the board, and idk where I'd put the MCU circuit)
If this layout is possible, I'd love for you to consider it as an option for those who are a bit more reserved when it comes to wacky layouts.
(Attachment Link)
Yup that layout will be roughly available for order. The rotary encoder will be a bit off-center (there will be more space between it and the key above than the key below), but other than that it's a viable custom layout
I prefer it when things line up neatly with each other, so this is my proposed layout:
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/Z8rEeOu.jpg)
Also: Split spacebars please?
Sorry :\ I can't re-do the PCB to support that, holes would interfere with the other layouts
__________________________________________
Render with 1u's instead of vert 2u's and ISO enter for those interested in seeing how that looks:
[attach=1]
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OHHH!!!
1u's and WKL is looking fresh :D
Is there a function for the hole that is beneath the 'Insert' key?
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but it would be super cool to see a design here where there is some extra space, even if it wasn't a graphic or the actual words "Timber Wolf". Maybe perhaps TW-75? Just a thought.
[attachimg=1]
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OHHH!!!
1u's and WKL is looking fresh :D
Is there a function for the hole that is beneath the 'Insert' key?
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but it would be super cool to see a design here where there is some extra space, even if it wasn't a graphic or the actual words "Timber Wolf". Maybe perhaps TW-75? Just a thought.
(Attachment Link)
The hole is there for the LED Light pipe that works as a caps lock indicator (can be configured to other things if you want). i might look at adding an engraving of the variant on layouts people choose with extra space (so TBR-A, TBR-B, etc.), or maybe just a graphic of the timber wolf's paper doll from MW4. we'll see
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Keep an eye on your mailbox over the next couple days. There should be a letter from my lawyer concerning the matter of you assaulting my eyes.
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Why is this not flagged NSFW? *zip*
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Split space and I would not be able to resist. 3 key space and aid throw money at you and buy two for good measure.
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- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!
I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?
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- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!
I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?
When do you envision using the numpad enter? In what scenario is it better?
numpad enter is all about being able to hit enter super easily with your right thumb while using both mouse and keyboard. i imagine this is the sort of thing that some people like me are way into, and others don't care about at all, depending on workflows and use cases
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- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!
I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?
lmao, yup. what eskimojo quoted. its also like, 30% meme factor
for real though, every part of this layout came from yearning. i wanted a rotary encoder that was positioned super conveniently to my mouse hand, and a numpad enter i could hit with my thumb. a macro column with an fn key on the bottom so i could use my alpha-numerics as macros on the second layer without having to reach over to split right shift. an f-row with proper gaps because having to glance down is super annoying and .25u gaps are barely noticeable to me. a proper nav cluster on a 75%. a 2u delete key because putting a key below delete ruins the homing, and leaving a gap under it feels wasteful, and i wanna keep it in the same row, and because 2u vertical keys just feel great. as you might be able to tell, layout 2 is easily my favorite, buuut i played around with layout 1 a lot too and still found it more to my tastes than any other keyboard, and i think it's much more pretty.
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- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!
I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?
lmao, yup. what eskimojo quoted. its also like, 30% meme factor
for real though, every part of this layout came from yearning. i wanted a rotary encoder that was positioned super conveniently to my mouse hand, and a numpad enter i could hit with my thumb. a macro column with an fn key on the bottom so i could use my alpha-numerics as macros on the second layer without having to reach over to split right shift. an f-row with proper gaps because having to glance down is super annoying and .25u gaps are barely noticeable to me. a proper nav cluster on a 75%. a 2u delete key because putting a key below delete ruins the homing, and leaving a gap under it feels wasteful, and i wanna keep it in the same row, and because 2u vertical keys just feel great. as you might be able to tell, layout 2 is easily my favorite, buuut i played around with layout 1 a lot too and still found it more to my tastes than any other keyboard, and i think it's much more pretty.
A man who knows what he wants!
I'm curious to know how the weight question is coming along? Are you sticking with the original plan or is the majority asking for a weight?
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as you might be able to tell, Alt. Config. A is easily my favorite
Fixed that for you, thank me later.
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- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!
I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?
lmao, yup. what eskimojo quoted. its also like, 30% meme factor
for real though, every part of this layout came from yearning. i wanted a rotary encoder that was positioned super conveniently to my mouse hand, and a numpad enter i could hit with my thumb. a macro column with an fn key on the bottom so i could use my alpha-numerics as macros on the second layer without having to reach over to split right shift. an f-row with proper gaps because having to glance down is super annoying and .25u gaps are barely noticeable to me. a proper nav cluster on a 75%. a 2u delete key because putting a key below delete ruins the homing, and leaving a gap under it feels wasteful, and i wanna keep it in the same row, and because 2u vertical keys just feel great. as you might be able to tell, layout 2 is easily my favorite, buuut i played around with layout 1 a lot too and still found it more to my tastes than any other keyboard, and i think it's much more pretty.
A man who knows what he wants!
I'm curious to know how the weight question is coming along? Are you sticking with the original plan or is the majority asking for a weight?
the weight question is like dead even, it's nuts. but im tie breaker so im thinkin no (at least for this version)
as you might be able to tell, Alt. Config. A is easily my favorite
Fixed that for you, thank me later.
shhh im not assigning them variant designations until the group buyyyyyyyy
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So this one would be the Prime then. At least you didn't call it the MadCat, I guess you couldn't because of connotations with other peripherals.
I like the layout ideas, it would probably be better with 2x1u in place of the 2u high keys though
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And more importantly, can you please upload an expanded case view? I'm not quite understanding how this thing is put together.
Here's an exploded view of the case and its components
[attach=1]
The black washers you see are neoprene, on either side of the PCB to isolate it from any direct contact with metal. The PCB is attached to the top case using a countersunk screw & washer combo - countersunk to keep the height down, with a washer because in my experience, screwing down directly on a soft material will twist it and mess it up (this way the metal washer stays still against the foam and the screw can twist against the metal freely). There are 10 locations where the PCB is attached, with the 6 in the middle having their own small flex cut-outs to prevent undue rigidity: you can see a couple of these in the render at the bottom of the PCB (as well as the flex cut for the spacebar). After attaching the PCB to the top case, and screwing the daughterboard down to the bottom case (attached to the main board with a simple JST-SH connector), 8 counter-bored screws connect the bottom case to the top. there are 3 different types of screw (in terms of length, style, etc), but all use 1.5mm hex heads for relative ease of assembly.
It's certainly not the simplest construction, but I can't think of any ways to simplify it without compromising it, and I had only very minor trouble assembling my 3D printed prototypes (the only lesson i learned was that if you installed keycaps before putting the PCB and top case together, you just have to first remove the 6 or 7 keycaps by the neoprene washers). I plan to upload a full build guide video with the GB, though, to make sure everything is super clear.
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That's a very nice exploded view!
What color will the PCBs be?
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What color will the PCBs be?
plan is matte black - wanted to do red for clan wolf's colors, but since you can make out a bit of the pcb through gaps in the keycaps when looking directly down on it, matte black will look nicer
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totally understand the concept behind a flexible board, and also totally get that missing the numpad enter key can be annoying.
discounting the first point though, doing just a regular TKL or 75%, and then placing the knob and macro keys on the right could be cleaner / more symmetrical. the bottom 2 macro keys could be dedicated to being a large Enter Key.
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totally understand the concept behind a flexible board, and also totally get that missing the numpad enter key can be annoying.
discounting the first point though, doing just a regular TKL or 75%, and then placing the knob and macro keys on the right could be cleaner / more symmetrical. the bottom 2 macro keys could be dedicated to being a large Enter Key.
despite the fact that the various criteria i had for this layout basically mandated more than 2 columns of space to the right of the 60% block...i also want there to be as little space to the right of the 60% block as possible, in order to keep my mouse closer to that part of the keyboard. plus, i just like the macro keys being on the left more than the right
i really like where your head's at though, and i think that could be a cool starting point for another special layout
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despite the fact that the various criteria i had for this layout basically mandated more than 2 columns of space to the right of the 60% block...i also want there to be as little space to the right of the 60% block as possible, in order to keep my mouse closer to that part of the keyboard. plus, i just like the macro keys being on the left more than the right
i really like where your head's at though, and i think that could be a cool starting point for another special layout
thanks. maybe someone else will take it up and run with it :)
good luck with this, its interesting and i'll be following its developments closely :)
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I think the Satisfaction 75 might interest you, @neautralstate.
Personally, I like this layout more.
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This is so cool I love all the layouts!
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Okay, I'm not gonna lie.. I saw this initially, and thought it looked ridiculous. But after looking at it more, I've processed the design, and I really like it lol. It's a facinsating layout, and I am definitely interested - I would gladly join this GB.
If it's not troublesome, GMK olive, GMK white on black, and GMK bento renders would be awesome!
Cool design for sure!
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Depending on the timing I would definetly be down to grab one or two of these. I like the format with the knob on the top left the most. I would for sure have the 2u's as 1u's with artisan keycaps.
Do you think it's possible there would be more gb information before July 10th? I have my eye on the u80-a gb as well.
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Okay, I'm not gonna lie.. I saw this initially, and thought it looked ridiculous. But after looking at it more, I've processed the design, and I really like it lol. It's a facinsating layout, and I am definitely interested - I would gladly join this GB.
If it's not troublesome, GMK olive, GMK white on black, and GMK bento renders would be awesome!
Cool design for sure!
I'll start on some more renders, with some different layouts too!
Depending on the timing I would definetly be down to grab one or two of these. I like the format with the knob on the top left the most. I would for sure have the 2u's as 1u's with artisan keycaps.
Do you think it's possible there would be more gb information before July 10th? I have my eye on the u80-a gb as well.
I won't be posting the GB until I have a prototype in my hands with satisfactory quality, and full pricing details from the factory. That might take less than a month, but it'll probably take more.
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this is literally the most divisive gh thread i've never seen
give me one
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this is literally the most divisive gh thread i've never seen
give me one
I'll take love and I'll take hate, just don't hit me with that cool indifference.
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moar renders at the bottom! GMK Olive on Grey Green (which I actually think I dig more than Grey Blue), and GMK WoB on Dark Navy.
Also, if you check the IC text under layouts, I tried to make it more clear just how the GB ordering is meant to go, and I added more specific KLE links. The intent is for the final GB form to have you assemble a layout by choosing an option for the left side, right side, and top. Hopefully this makes it more clear to people that you're not limited to just one of the four original layout options I had renders of.
Based on the results of the IC, I've determined that the Prime configuration (so the default and cheapest) will be the one labeled "Layout 1". I am in the process of ordering a prototype of it now. I've also modified my PCB based on my experiences building up protos. Text from progress update:
"Support for 7u spacebar layouts has been removed, due to them compromising the PCB fixing pins on adjacent, more important alternate keys. For this same reason, the ISO shift, off-center 6U spacebar, and right side of the split backspace will have their switch footprints rotated 90°, which may stretch (or in the worst case, break) keycap stems. Obviously this is not ideal, but the alternative was removing support for these keys altogether. My own experience with using rotated switches is that it stretches keycaps a bit, but not to the point of them no longer sticking on the switch stem, and I've never had a cap break. Still, do it at your own risk."
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Oh man, this is awesome. I'll definitely get this if the price is sub 400, which you seem to be going for. I would love to see a render with GMK darling.
This is the layout I think I'll end up getting if this goes through
edit: i messed up the spacing on the right side oops. you can probably see what it's supposed to be though
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Oh man, this is awesome. I'll definitely get this if the price is sub 400, which you seem to be going for. I would love to see a render with GMK darling.
This is the layout I think I'll end up getting if this goes through
edit: i messed up the spacing on the right side oops. you can probably see what it's supposed to be though
I can give darling a try, but i cant do sub legends cuz im a scrub renderer, so itll just be the colors
haha yeah easy enough to interpret. custom layouts might not be sub-400 unfortunately, i'm expecting those to carry a 50-100 dollar premium, but I'm trying to make it all easy enough to manufacture that it's not too bad.
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Since this keyboard is the mother of weird layouts... Have you thought about separating the nav cluster differently? Right now all your layouts have 5 keys clustered at the very top, with the "configurable" part underneath. Would an option for 3 keys on top (standard PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause) and 6 underneath (standard nav cluster but vertical) be possible?
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Since this keyboard is the mother of weird layouts... Have you thought about separating the nav cluster differently? Right now all your layouts have 5 keys clustered at the very top, with the "configurable" part underneath. Would an option for 3 keys on top (standard PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause) and 6 underneath (standard nav cluster but vertical) be possible?
Yaknow what...I think that's actually totally possible. I'll verify the PCB and everything, but I don't see any conflicts
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I'd be really interested to see this one with GMK hyperfuse origins if possible. Or even the grey one. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190616/5f2b80cecd1c9961c40cabf75727ee39.jpg)
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Since this keyboard is the mother of weird layouts... Have you thought about separating the nav cluster differently? Right now all your layouts have 5 keys clustered at the very top, with the "configurable" part underneath. Would an option for 3 keys on top (standard PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause) and 6 underneath (standard nav cluster but vertical) be possible?
Yaknow what...I think that's actually totally possible. I'll verify the PCB and everything, but I don't see any conflicts
We're getting into TKL territory here (who cares) but yeah, that layout sounds appealing. I don't much care for the 4 in a row and then the 1 F-row key by itself. They should all be in a 4-line cluster.
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From what I'm reading you're thinking of a small initial group buy then potentially a bigger one down the road? What are the chances of that bigger one happening? I am loving the look of this board but I don't think my finances will line up with everything else I have planned for the next few months :(
Also I am scheming this in Red with GMK Samurai :cool:
Edited another question: Never used plateless before, anyone know how well it would hold up when playing dota and bottoming out hard when spamming keys?
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I'd be really interested to see this one with GMK hyperfuse origins if possible. Or even the grey one. Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190616/5f2b80cecd1c9961c40cabf75727ee39.jpg)
I'll take a crack at it!
Since this keyboard is the mother of weird layouts... Have you thought about separating the nav cluster differently? Right now all your layouts have 5 keys clustered at the very top, with the "configurable" part underneath. Would an option for 3 keys on top (standard PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause) and 6 underneath (standard nav cluster but vertical) be possible?
Yaknow what...I think that's actually totally possible. I'll verify the PCB and everything, but I don't see any conflicts
We're getting into TKL territory here (who cares) but yeah, that layout sounds appealing. I don't much care for the 4 in a row and then the 1 F-row key by itself. They should all be in a 4-line cluster.
tbh, i never really thought of this as a 75% in the first place (not least because i think the % system is useless). I mean, I think even the layout with the least keys has like 90 of them, plus the nav cluster makes it more like a smushed TKL to me than a expanded 75%. I just figured "75%" got the point across better (and maybe sounded more appealing) than "smushed TKL". as for the 1 f-row key (im assuming you mean the one to the left of insert?) then yeah 2 of the 3 f-row options forgo that, you can check the top row options in the original IC text under "Layouts".
From what I'm reading you're thinking of a small initial group buy then potentially a bigger one down the road? What are the chances of that bigger one happening? I am loving the look of this board but I don't think my finances will line up with everything else I have planned for the next few months :(
Also I am scheming this in Red with GMK Samurai :cool:
Edited another question: Never used plateless before, anyone know how well it would hold up when playing dota and bottoming out hard when spamming keys?
We'll see how many people actually want to buy it. if a third of the people that filled out the IC actually end up wanting to buy, I won't be able to come close to satisfying that in this GB. So I'd probably do a second round, or a v2, or something like that. no guarantees, especially since I do have other projects that I want to put out as well, but I'll try to satisfy demand.
gmk samurai is a sick set. i wish i could do hiragana sub-legend renders but i'm not that pro yet :(
I mean, structurally it will hold up fine. you have to really try to break fiberglass, and the case itself doesn't allow for anywhere near that level of deformation. the closest thing you'd have to worry about is pushing down so hard that the switch legs run into the aluminum of the case. the distance between the bottom of the PCB and the top of the Bottom Case is a bit less than 3mm, so it's about 1mm from the bottom of the switch legs, and a 1N force on the center of the PCB (which I would call a hard bottom out) should deform it by less than 0.1mm. tl;dr, you'll be fine
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1mm doesn't sound like a lot of space between the bottom of the case and the switch leg. Should we be worried about the switch feet hitting the case and causing a short? I'll probably use some foam at the bottom regardless.
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1mm doesn't sound like a lot of space between the bottom of the case and the switch leg. Should we be worried about the switch feet hitting the case and causing a short? I'll probably use some foam at the bottom regardless.
It doesn't sound like a lot, but the PCB doesn't flex nearly that much during typing. It's of course something I'll be testing with the prototypes (it doesn't seem to be an issue on the 3D printed prototype, but of course this is plastic), but it seems way within tolerance for anyone that isn't going all Nathan Kim on it (those videos where he flex tested the gskt00 still haunt me). though even that flex test shouldn't cause any damage (maybe minor cosmetic issues if the legs scratch? still don't recommend it)
I am also considering including a layer of dense .8mm foam or rubber on the bottom. that's still very up in the air, but it should completely wipe away that possibility and maybe improve acoustics
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We'll see how many people actually want to buy it. if a third of the people that filled out the IC actually end up wanting to buy, I won't be able to come close to satisfying that in this GB. So I'd probably do a second round, or a v2, or something like that. no guarantees, especially since I do have other projects that I want to put out as well, but I'll try to satisfy demand.
gmk samurai is a sick set. i wish i could do hiragana sub-legend renders but i'm not that pro yet :(
I mean, structurally it will hold up fine. you have to really try to break fiberglass, and the case itself doesn't allow for anywhere near that level of deformation. the closest thing you'd have to worry about is pushing down so hard that the switch legs run into the aluminum of the case. the distance between the bottom of the PCB and the top of the Bottom Case is a bit less than 3mm, so it's about 1mm from the bottom of the switch legs, and a 1N force on the center of the PCB (which I would call a hard bottom out) should deform it by less than 0.1mm. tl;dr, you'll be fine
Stop giving me reasons to ruin my financials :-X will follow along closely
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Since this keyboard is the mother of weird layouts... Have you thought about separating the nav cluster differently? Right now all your layouts have 5 keys clustered at the very top, with the "configurable" part underneath. Would an option for 3 keys on top (standard PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause) and 6 underneath (standard nav cluster but vertical) be possible?
I'd like to see this rendered as well!
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So here's the new layout option. A little too TC-V3 for my taste lol, but I get why people could be into it. Did a couple of color schemes for good measure
I'm having trouble finding color codes for some of the keycap render requests though, and I'm running out of unique layouts to show off!
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So here's the new layout option. A little too TC-V3 for my taste lol, but I get why people could be into it. Did a couple of color schemes for good measure
I'm having trouble finding color codes for some of the keycap render requests though, and I'm running out of unique layouts to show off!
Nonsense! There are hundreds of different layout options possible :D
Also, please do GMK Voyage! Kidding :p
Looking forward to when the proto comes so you can show it off.
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So here's the new layout option. A little too TC-V3 for my taste lol, but I get why people could be into it. Did a couple of color schemes for good measure
I'm having trouble finding color codes for some of the keycap render requests though, and I'm running out of unique layouts to show off!
Is that GMK Samurai I see? ;) Can you try GMK Phantom?
Definitely still prefer your original layout (2u enter and del) to everything else
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So here's the new layout option. A little too TC-V3 for my taste lol, but I get why people could be into it. Did a couple of color schemes for good measure
I'm having trouble finding color codes for some of the keycap render requests though, and I'm running out of unique layouts to show off!
Is that GMK Samurai I see? ;) Can you try GMK Phantom?
Definitely still prefer your original layout (2u enter and del) to everything else
So here's the new layout option. A little too TC-V3 for my taste lol, but I get why people could be into it. Did a couple of color schemes for good measure
I'm having trouble finding color codes for some of the keycap render requests though, and I'm running out of unique layouts to show off!
Nonsense! There are hundreds of different layout options possible :D
Also, please do GMK Voyage! Kidding :p
Looking forward to when the proto comes so you can show it off.
Yeah. I've got the main one figured out (the original layout in red was the clear winner of the IC form), and I'm going to heartily recommend layout 2 (in oblivion) for anyone considering a custom layout, since I do think it's hands-down the best for usability, but hopefully there''s not toooo many people wanting unique layouts. the manu i got in touch with said they're down to clown, but I've no doubt that QA will suffer
Moar renders, including a shot of the bottom, don't think I've shown it before. It's super simple; might consider doing an engraving but probably not, so the only real details are screw holes and bump-on positions
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So here's the new layout option. A little too TC-V3 for my taste lol, but I get why people could be into it. Did a couple of color schemes for good measure
I'm having trouble finding color codes for some of the keycap render requests though, and I'm running out of unique layouts to show off!
As a TC-V3 owner, one thing that bothers me the most is that I keep reaching the top left corner for the ESC key and bottom left corner for the Ctrl key. I like everything about this layout, but if the the bottom left is blank on the macro column like on the other layout you have, that would be my perfect layout.
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So here's the new layout option. A little too TC-V3 for my taste lol, but I get why people could be into it. Did a couple of color schemes for good measure
I'm having trouble finding color codes for some of the keycap render requests though, and I'm running out of unique layouts to show off!
As a TC-V3 owner, one thing that bothers me the most is that I keep reaching the top left corner for the ESC key and bottom left corner for the Ctrl key. I like everything about this layout, but if the the bottom left is blank on the macro column like on the other layout you have, that would be my perfect layout.
i'm 100% with you. i feel like a lot of people are going to choose the full macro column for various reasons, and they're certainly not wrong to do so, but i heartily recommend chopping off that bottom key. the great thing about the top left, though, is that even if you leave the escape key above tilde like in the tc-v3, the feel of the knob is a really clear boundary to the keyboard when homing your pinky (and ofc if you put the esc key at the top left, there's no problem there)
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Looks really promising. Definitely different from the other 75% keyboards. Can you clarify with what you meant by 2u support for the numpad enter? Would that mean that it doesn't need stabs if I only want it as an enter?
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I am definitely interested in this. I like unique layouts/designs cuz normal is boring. I would be interested in seeing renders of the purple housing with SA Laser. Or I guess and format Laser keycaps lol. Also just curious what your preferred layout is Croktopus?
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Looks really promising. Definitely different from the other 75% keyboards. Can you clarify with what you meant by 2u support for the numpad enter? Would that mean that it doesn't need stabs if I only want it as an enter?
the numpad enter will require a 2u stabilizer (well i guess you could go without, but I wouldn't recommend it). that spot does also support 2 1u keys
I am definitely interested in this. I like unique layouts/designs cuz normal is boring. I would be interested in seeing renders of the purple housing with SA Laser. Or I guess and format Laser keycaps lol. Also just curious what your preferred layout is Croktopus?
i can look into laser. still narrowing down which shade of purple i want to go for though, the renders are me trying things out and seeing how they work as far as colors go. my preferred layout is absolutely the one rendered in GMK oblivion - escape at the top left allows the f keys to be moved over for more ergonomic alt+f4'ing, the 3 + 1 setup of the macro column prevents you from homing to a macro key when reaching for control, numpad enter belongs on the bottom right of the board (it still works moved up but not as well imo), and the rotary encoder being close to mouse hand is perfect for my use case
the layout in GMK jamon is my second favorite. it's the best looking imo, its rotary encoder position is great for people who spend more time with their left hand on a keyboard than i do, which also makes the macro column more ideal since they won't be homing to ctrl as often as me, and i do prefer having the arrow keys moved to the right like on this layout (which aside from aesthetics, is the one big thing i think the oblivion layout sacrifices)
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Moar renders, including a shot of the bottom, don't think I've shown it before. It's super simple; might consider doing an engraving but probably not, so the only real details are screw holes and bump-on positions
That's too bad about the bottom TBR Mech engraving. I was looking forward to it, but I understand that the majority of folks aren't fans like you and I are. I still would like to see a TBR engraving on the top plate. Is that still in the works?
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Looks really promising. Definitely different from the other 75% keyboards. Can you clarify with what you meant by 2u support for the numpad enter? Would that mean that it doesn't need stabs if I only want it as an enter?
the numpad enter will require a 2u stabilizer (well i guess you could go without, but I wouldn't recommend it). that spot does also support 2 1u keys
I am definitely interested in this. I like unique layouts/designs cuz normal is boring. I would be interested in seeing renders of the purple housing with SA Laser. Or I guess and format Laser keycaps lol. Also just curious what your preferred layout is Croktopus?
i can look into laser. still narrowing down which shade of purple i want to go for though, the renders are me trying things out and seeing how they work as far as colors go. my preferred layout is absolutely the one rendered in GMK oblivion - escape at the top left allows the f keys to be moved over for more ergonomic alt+f4'ing, the 3 + 1 setup of the macro column prevents you from homing to a macro key when reaching for control, numpad enter belongs on the bottom right of the board (it still works moved up but not as well imo), and the rotary encoder being close to mouse hand is perfect for my use case
the layout in GMK jamon is my second favorite. it's the best looking imo, its rotary encoder position is great for people who spend more time with their left hand on a keyboard than i do, which also makes the macro column more ideal since they won't be homing to ctrl as often as me, and i do prefer having the arrow keys moved to the right like on this layout (which aside from aesthetics, is the one big thing i think the oblivion layout sacrifices)
The Laser is a pretty nice set, Cyberpunk themed. And that’s awesome cuz that was one my favorite layout too. The rotary encoder is in a great spot as my mouse sits fairly close to that side since my desk is a wee small. And really any purple would probably look great on this, but I love the plum type color you got going so far. Reminds me of my old Scion tC I had that was that color. Really excited to see what you come up with. Will definitely have to get a job again and save up for this for the hopes this comes to reality.
That layout with Jamon is also pretty nice, and seems a bit more balanced in looks, but the rotary encoder on the right with the enter key is definitely nice. I hardly use arrow keys, pretty much only use them to go up and down pages when I don’t use page up/down.
Another question, don’t think anyone’s asked it but I skimmed through comments and probably missed it, but is the rotary encoder gonna be programmable? Or set for only certain uses?
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Like the render so much.
The "+" key is so special.
Any idea why put this here?
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Moar renders, including a shot of the bottom, don't think I've shown it before. It's super simple; might consider doing an engraving but probably not, so the only real details are screw holes and bump-on positions
That's too bad about the bottom TBR Mech engraving. I was looking forward to it, but I understand that the majority of folks aren't fans like you and I are. I still would like to see a TBR engraving on the top plate. Is that still in the works?
I'm still not 100% decided, but if anything I'm more likely to just put a little engraving on the inside (for both things)
Looks really promising. Definitely different from the other 75% keyboards. Can you clarify with what you meant by 2u support for the numpad enter? Would that mean that it doesn't need stabs if I only want it as an enter?
the numpad enter will require a 2u stabilizer (well i guess you could go without, but I wouldn't recommend it). that spot does also support 2 1u keys
I am definitely interested in this. I like unique layouts/designs cuz normal is boring. I would be interested in seeing renders of the purple housing with SA Laser. Or I guess and format Laser keycaps lol. Also just curious what your preferred layout is Croktopus?
i can look into laser. still narrowing down which shade of purple i want to go for though, the renders are me trying things out and seeing how they work as far as colors go. my preferred layout is absolutely the one rendered in GMK oblivion - escape at the top left allows the f keys to be moved over for more ergonomic alt+f4'ing, the 3 + 1 setup of the macro column prevents you from homing to a macro key when reaching for control, numpad enter belongs on the bottom right of the board (it still works moved up but not as well imo), and the rotary encoder being close to mouse hand is perfect for my use case
the layout in GMK jamon is my second favorite. it's the best looking imo, its rotary encoder position is great for people who spend more time with their left hand on a keyboard than i do, which also makes the macro column more ideal since they won't be homing to ctrl as often as me, and i do prefer having the arrow keys moved to the right like on this layout (which aside from aesthetics, is the one big thing i think the oblivion layout sacrifices)
The Laser is a pretty nice set, Cyberpunk themed. And that’s awesome cuz that was one my favorite layout too. The rotary encoder is in a great spot as my mouse sits fairly close to that side since my desk is a wee small. And really any purple would probably look great on this, but I love the plum type color you got going so far. Reminds me of my old Scion tC I had that was that color. Really excited to see what you come up with. Will definitely have to get a job again and save up for this for the hopes this comes to reality.
That layout with Jamon is also pretty nice, and seems a bit more balanced in looks, but the rotary encoder on the right with the enter key is definitely nice. I hardly use arrow keys, pretty much only use them to go up and down pages when I don’t use page up/down.
Another question, don’t think anyone’s asked it but I skimmed through comments and probably missed it, but is the rotary encoder gonna be programmable? Or set for only certain uses?
Rotary encoder functions are defined in QMK, so it's easily programmable
Like the render so much.
The "+" key is so special.
Any idea why put this here?
the + key is a delete key - I've talked about this before but 2u delete just feels good to me, and I personally don't think having 2 1u keys there works nearly as well for homing reasons (though the pcb does support that). Only downside is that there are no 2u delete keycaps of course, so you have to use a + keycap
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So the red one is the prime configuration - I just love it! One small suggestion: How would a downward facing stroke LED instead of the dot-like look? It could be marvellous beside the two 2U keys...
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So the red one is the prime configuration - I just love it! One small suggestion: How would a downward facing stroke LED instead of the dot-like look? It could be marvellous beside the two 2U keys...
You mean like, a rectangular light pipe? It's something I've thought about, and it would be cool, but it would need to be a very specific shape in order for the case to remain easily machinable, and I'm also worried about the light being uneven.
I've also gotten comments about moving the light pipe to the center of the white space, but man, it just looks weird there.
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A little late to the discussion, but this ticks all my boxes. For a total perfection I would want a split space (not happening as I see) and moving the directional keys to the left (definitely not going to happen). Regardless, I am very interested. Especially love the slanted/bevelled front edge below the space bar (something that most cases forgo these days). Please try to keep the bevel on the sides as well if possible.
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A little late to the discussion, but this ticks all my boxes. For a total perfection I would want a split space (not happening as I see) and moving the directional keys to the left (definitely not going to happen). Regardless, I am very interested. Especially love the slanted/bevelled front edge below the space bar (something that most cases forgo these days). Please try to keep the bevel on the sides as well if possible.
yup, side and front chamfers are a must on this board imo, to reduce the effective size of the chin and...cheeks? and make it more comfortable to use your thumbs. im still making adjustments to them throughout the prototyping process, but no drastic changes
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interesting，waiting 4 GB :-*
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yup, side and front chamfers are a must on this board imo, to reduce the effective size of the chin and...cheeks? and make it more comfortable to use your thumbs. im still making adjustments to them throughout the prototyping process, but no drastic changes
Forgot to add, as a trackball user, that numeric vertical enter on the right will be very useful. This might not be too obvious to mouse users.
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so cool - if i didn't just cop the Satisfaction75 i'd be in for sure. good luck to you mate.
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yup, side and front chamfers are a must on this board imo, to reduce the effective size of the chin and...cheeks? and make it more comfortable to use your thumbs. im still making adjustments to them throughout the prototyping process, but no drastic changes
Forgot to add, as a trackball user, that numeric vertical enter on the right will be very useful. This might not be too obvious to mouse users.
Yup, even as a mouse user it's very useful (imo), but totally makes sense that it'd be even better with a trackball
_______________________________
In other news, the case prototype arrived!!! I'm so excited to actually have this thing now, but it does have some issues that I'll be working out with the factory in a second prototype. I'm currently lubing up the switches I want to put into it (thought it would take a couple more days to get here), but I hope to have it all built up later today so I can take some good pictures
in the meantime, here's kind of a ****ty pic i took at my workbench
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:p :thumb: Nearly died upon seeing the GMK Phantom set-up... I was already supper into this board when the GB starts, but seeing that purple case pretty much confirmed it for me. I am sure I will find a lay-out that I really like: so take my money!
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What's the angle on the board again? I don't see it listed in the OP. Thanks!
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What's the angle on the board again? I don't see it listed in the OP. Thanks!
It's 8° :)
:p :thumb: Nearly died upon seeing the GMK Phantom set-up... I was already supper into this board when the GB starts, but seeing that purple case pretty much confirmed it for me. I am sure I will find a lay-out that I really like: so take my money!
Yeah purple was the main winner write in color from the IC (along with white and PC lol, but I'm just looking at ano alu for now), so i think next proto will be trying out a purple
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Oooft the case!! What switches are you going to test with it?
Also if the case comes in a dark purple that matches GMK Phantom I will HAVE to buy this board - i just bought the set for another build but i can always find other caps for that :cool:
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Oooft the case!! What switches are you going to test with it?
Also if the case comes in a dark purple that matches GMK Phantom I will HAVE to buy this board - i just bought the set for another build but i can always find other caps for that :cool:
I'm going for lubed & filmed T1s. gonna try to get my hands on some inks too for a future build, but i really dig T1s
the purple likely won't be as vibrant as GMK Phantom (the pantone I'll be giving them is 8802 C) but i think it will be close enough and dark enough for them to work well together
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I'm totally wiped, but proto assembly is complete. It's pretty much the best thing ever. Typing test is coming, but I need to do some chores and get some sleep. In the meantime, I'll just leave you with these...
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I'm totally wiped, but proto assembly is complete. It's pretty much the best thing ever. Typing test is coming, but I need to do some chores and get some sleep. In the meantime, I'll just leave you with these...
That looks great IRL, I really like how the anodizing turned out. Looking forward to that video!
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I'm totally wiped, but proto assembly is complete. It's pretty much the best thing ever. Typing test is coming, but I need to do some chores and get some sleep. In the meantime, I'll just leave you with these...
I want one. Looking forward to the typing test!
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I'm looking forward to seeing the Timberwolf engraving on the back and TBR on the front too! :p
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Sigh... *zip*
Can a mod pls tag this as NSFW allready, FFS?
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My "recording setup" is pretty ****e, and I need to re-tune some stabs, but I still think it sounds pretty good. Especially in person ;)
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My "recording setup" is pretty ****e, and I need to re-tune some stabs, but I still think it sounds pretty good. Especially in person ;)
Bruhhhhhh
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This is the innovation we need :cool:
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I thought that Space Cadet picture with a blue background was a render because everything about it is so perfect
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
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Oooft the case!! What switches are you going to test with it?
Also if the case comes in a dark purple that matches GMK Phantom I will HAVE to buy this board - i just bought the set for another build but i can always find other caps for that :cool:
Literally in the same exact boat - though I got Phantom because I saw how well it went with the dark purple render. Cannot wait to see this GB get started!
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Oooft the case!! What switches are you going to test with it?
Also if the case comes in a dark purple that matches GMK Phantom I will HAVE to buy this board - i just bought the set for another build but i can always find other caps for that :cool:
Literally in the same exact boat - though I got Phantom because I saw how well it went with the dark purple render. Cannot wait to see this GB get started!
same. just playing the waiting game now, myself. gotta finish 3d printing a proto of the updated design to make sure everything fits right before I send it to get cnc'd. once that arrives, I'll figure out final pricing and put the GB together.
right now, final colors i'm expecting to do are "smoke" (the graphite black, but it's not quite black and not quite gray so I'm just gonna call it some random name), silver, and purple. if it won't jack up the price a whole bunch, I also want to do blue gray, red, and rose gold (in that order), but we'll see - the design's gotten more complex in order to prevent rack marks from anodization, and I want the price to stay manageable
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same. just playing the waiting game now, myself. gotta finish 3d printing a proto of the updated design to make sure everything fits right before I send it to get cnc'd. once that arrives, I'll figure out final pricing and put the GB together.
right now, final colors i'm expecting to do are "smoke" (the graphite black, but it's not quite black and not quite gray so I'm just gonna call it some random name), silver, and purple. if it won't jack up the price a whole bunch, I also want to do blue gray, red, and rose gold (in that order), but we'll see - the design's gotten more complex in order to prevent rack marks from anodization, and I want the price to stay manageable
Take your time, lets get this perfect! (definitely not me trying to buy time to get some money)
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Excited to follow this board. This has nearly everything I want.
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Just checking but is the led indicator the only light in the board?
Best,
Fog
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Just checking but is the led indicator the only light in the board?
Best,
Fog
Correct.
btw as a general update, sorry about the slow progress, but prototype number 2 was damaged in shipping from the anodization place back to the factory. They sorted it out (and re-did the anoidzation) and have just shipped it to me, so I should be posting an update on Tuesday or Wednesday. Thanks for your patience, everyone.
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Correct.
btw as a general update, sorry about the slow progress, but prototype number 2 was damaged in shipping from the anodization place back to the factory. They sorted it out (and re-did the anoidzation) and have just shipped it to me, so I should be posting an update on Tuesday or Wednesday. Thanks for your patience, everyone.
As others have stated, take your time. Really looking forward to this board and MW5 (pleasedontsuck)....hype!
I kinda want to see if I can get a mech etched onto the bottom
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Gimme gimme gimme
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Was surprised how much I like the look :thumb:
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I can see myself reaching for this over a tkl. The battle-tank-destroyer-v8-800poundsoftorque look is growing on me. I'm digging the macro section.
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Looking forward to an expected update either later today or tomorrow - certainly a highlight right now. Thanks for replying to my other question. Out of curiosity - would the PCB be able to have lighting added to it? Your board literally has everything I could ever want, just no lighting - so I'm drawing a hard line on whether to go all in or wait for something else.
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Just checking but is the led indicator the only light in the board?
Best,
Fog
Correct.
btw as a general update, sorry about the slow progress, but prototype number 2 was damaged in shipping from the anodization place back to the factory. They sorted it out (and re-did the anoidzation) and have just shipped it to me, so I should be posting an update on Tuesday or Wednesday. Thanks for your patience, everyone.
My body is ready
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Needs an ISO enter for good measure, please.
Yeah, I'd like akimbo ISO Enter compat if possible :thumb:
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Proto 2 has arrived. This one I had anodized with a rose gold top and purple bottom, so I could check out those colors. The rose gold is a tiny bit on the pink side for my taste (I like it a bit more peachy) but it's within margin of error. The purple is just a bit blue for me, but I've already settled on one that's just a tiny bit more red, so that should be perfect.
As far as geometry changes go, I've made the sides totally angled. this cuts down on the weight by a whopping 80 grams (fully built, v2 weighs in at 2780 grams) but it's much nicer to handle. I've also made efforts to make it considerably less sharp. there's still some slight pointiness at the corners, but it's been rounded over at least, and it's not sharp
another big change was the addition of a badge in the bottom case - the previous prototype, they weren't able to rack it from the inside, which obviously isn't gonna fly. so i added a nice little badge, put a sick timber wolf engraving on it, and I think it looks pretty fresh. there's a machining mark on it, but i'll talk to the manu about that (it's currently in silver brass, but I might change it to bead blasted stainless steel)
i also added an engraving to the inside of the top case with the "variant designation" (this one's a TBR-A). Unfortunately, I didn't think to take a picture of it before building it up, and it's hidden by the PCB. oops
the one issue is that the threads are a bit scuffed. i was able to screw everything together, but it wasn't the pleasant experience i hope to deliver. so im having a nice conversation with my manu about that. hopefully i won't need another proto but we'll see.
please forgive my filthy keycaps
[attach=2] [attach=3]
[attach=4]
[attach=1] [attach=5]
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Looking forward to an expected update either later today or tomorrow - certainly a highlight right now. Thanks for replying to my other question. Out of curiosity - would the PCB be able to have lighting added to it? Your board literally has everything I could ever want, just no lighting - so I'm drawing a hard line on whether to go all in or wait for something else.
Yeah understandable, but personally i'm not a huge fan of keeb lighting and didn't want to include more than an indicator.
Needs an ISO enter for good measure, please.
Yeah, I'd like akimbo ISO Enter compat if possible :thumb:
yeah, only one ISO enter, unfortunately. i tried to squeeze another one in, but KLE told me i was being just too much of a meme
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This looks killer! Super into it!
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Thanks for the reply. Either way excited to see this board make it to the GB stage. Hope you have more in store for us soon.
Best,
Fog
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I don't like The angles on the underside of the board - I personally would prefer to havs "sidewalls" straight down. But everytging else on the second proto makes me jizz my pants and scream "O shut up you sexy bastard and take my money". I want this! Interchangebale plates with different TimberWolf pics (for Alt. Conf. A for example) would be a sick add!
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Was a little disappointed when I saw the Timberwolf outline on the back, not because I don't like the design but I thought it was too small. However, I understand you don't want to make it a weight and if it was to be any bigger it would probably add more to the cost than you'd like.
Have the variants been finalized? I see you went with variant 1 for the first proto. Which variant did you go with for proto 2? Also, do you mind uploading larger images? It's hard to make out the new geometry changes from the image sizes you submitted.
PS: Don't know if you are a fan of the Battletech board game, but there is a Kickstarter currently going on for the newly redesigned Clan Invasion Box set. They are also redesigning a lot of the mechs since the original miniatures were quite outdated. Cheers! :thumb:
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Was a little disappointed when I saw the Timberwolf outline on the back, not because I don't like the design but I thought it was too small. However, I understand you don't want to make it a weight and if it was to be any bigger it would probably add more to the cost than you'd like.
Have the variants been finalized? I see you went with variant 1 for the first proto. Which variant did you go with for proto 2? Also, do you mind uploading larger images? It's hard to make out the new geometry changes from the image sizes you submitted.
PS: Don't know if you are a fan of the Battletech board game, but there is a Kickstarter currently going on for the newly redesigned Clan Invasion Box set. They are also redesigning a lot of the mechs since the original miniatures were quite outdated. Cheers! :thumb:
Was surprised to see the branding on the underside - granted as long as any branding isn't in your face - seems good to me. I've been curious on finalized variants too since this should be getting to the GB stage soon.
Hope progress is going well.
Best,
Fog
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Just found this been looking for something interesting like this as TKL looking forward to it! Also love the pink peach color!
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sorry, looks like my pics didn't paint quite the right picture. the badge is internal, only existing to give the anodization factory some nice spots to hold onto, and add a bit of flair. the added cost was pretty low (or at least, it will be for the GB) and I think its worth it.
more pics!
[attach=1] [attach=2]
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How heavy is the board built?
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How heavy is the board built?
about 2.8 kg.
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How heavy is the board built?
about 2.8 kg.
BIGBOYE
I’m really excited for this case. My dream combo would be
1. Layout 1 for the left column
2. Layout 2 for the frow and nav cluster (i really like want that knob)
3. Layout 6 for the right, but you’re selling me on that 2u delete key idea
Not sure if red is being considered for the case color, but if it is, then everything will be perfect.
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How heavy is the board built?
about 2.8 kg.
BIGBOYE
I’m really excited for this case. My dream combo would be
1. Layout 1 for the left column
2. Layout 2 for the frow and nav cluster (i really like want that knob)
3. Layout 6 for the right, but you’re selling me on that 2u delete key idea
Not sure if red is being considered for the case color, but if it is, then everything will be perfect.
The next and final prototype is very similar to that - it just uses 4 keys instead of 5 in the left column. I'm ordering a color sample for the red, as well :)
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The next and final prototype is very similar to that - it just uses 4 keys instead of 5 in the left column. I'm ordering a color sample for the red, as well :)
Best news I've heard all week! I know purple/violet was the dark horse of the poll on case colors but I like my mechas, both Western and Japanese, red.
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Was a little disappointed when I saw the Timberwolf outline on the back, not because I don't like the design but I thought it was too small. However, I understand you don't want to make it a weight and if it was to be any bigger it would probably add more to the cost than you'd like.
Have the variants been finalized? I see you went with variant 1 for the first proto. Which variant did you go with for proto 2? Also, do you mind uploading larger images? It's hard to make out the new geometry changes from the image sizes you submitted.
PS: Don't know if you are a fan of the Battletech board game, but there is a Kickstarter currently going on for the newly redesigned Clan Invasion Box set. They are also redesigning a lot of the mechs since the original miniatures were quite outdated. Cheers! :thumb:
i think ive got 3 variants decided. hopefully can offer those at a base price., with custom variants costing more.
and yeah, i managed to hold out until like 10 minutes before it ended, when i bought in at i think star colonel. im so ****ing excited
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Can we have a build video? ;D
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Can we have a build video? ;D
definitely something i intend to do before shipping, hopefully while the GB is running. still need to figure out a way to film it though lol
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sorry, looks like my pics didn't paint quite the right picture. the badge is internal, only existing to give the anodization factory some nice spots to hold onto, and add a bit of flair. the added cost was pretty low (or at least, it will be for the GB) and I think its worth it.
more pics!
Ahhhhh so pumped. Seeing these updates were the highlight of my weekend.
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Can we have a build video? ;D
definitely something i intend to do before shipping, hopefully while the GB is running. still need to figure out a way to film it though lol
Dumb questions about the Timber Wolf, sorry:
1. As the keeb is plateless, will the top half of the case be used in its place? Or will the switches be soldered directly into the PCB?
2. The renders look tight. Can screw-in stabs fit?
3. Is the bottom case a solid chunk of aluminum or is it hollow?
4. Since this is such a big case, can I fit a dampening pad between the bottom case and the PCB without creating too much pressure on the PCB?
5. I'm sure switches and caps contribute to this, but in general can you describe how it felt like to type on the prototypes?
6. Is the BattleTech game developed Harebrained and produced by Paradox a good introduction to the BattleTech universe?
Thanks in advance!
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Can we have a build video? ;D
definitely something i intend to do before shipping, hopefully while the GB is running. still need to figure out a way to film it though lol
Dumb questions about the Timber Wolf, sorry:
1. As the keeb is plateless, will the top half of the case be used in its place? Or will the switches be soldered directly into the PCB?
2. The renders look tight. Can screw-in stabs fit?
3. Is the bottom case a solid chunk of aluminum or is it hollow?
4. Since this is such a big case, can I fit a dampening pad between the bottom case and the PCB without creating too much pressure on the PCB?
5. I'm sure switches and caps contribute to this, but in general can you describe how it felt like to type on the prototypes?
6. Is the BattleTech game developed Harebrained and produced by Paradox a good introduction to the BattleTech universe?
Thanks in advance!
1. there is no plate that the switches clip into, instead it relies on the pcb fixing pins on the switch itself, which works pretty good. there are a few drawbacks to this - mainly, switch makers dont all follow cherry spec and some have thicc legs (gateron) and some have skinny ones (kailh cream). i tuned the hole size to make it so it's not painful to insert gats, but kailh creams are definitely a bit loose. still, once you solder them, they're secure
2. not sure what you mean by tight, but yes screw ins fit (they are even required if you want to do a 2u delete)
3 and 4. it's a solid chunk of aluminum, there is roughly 1mm between the bottom of the switch leg and the top of the inside of the bottom case (using cherry spec switches, this may vary a bit with other oems). this means that you should be able to fit a 1mm piece of rubber, or up to a 2.5mm thick piece of foam if it's open enough to allow switch legs to poke through with ease. personally, i dont really think it's necessary, as it doesn't sound hollow at all to me, but it is something i plan to test to see if it makes a difference
5. at the end of the day, i definitely think that switches make the biggest difference, and to be honest, i don't have that much experience with other custom keyboards to compare it to. but i am enjoying the flex quite a bit, as it still gives me a very satisfying bottom out without feeling like im slamming my fingers into the desk like on some experimental boards i've made with zero flex (though honestly, i do enjoy that style as well, it's pretty fun with clickies). there are definitely flexier boards, but...id say this one is up there. to give you an idea, other keycaps visibly move if i just go like asdfasdfasdf (though just barely)
6. id say hbs's battletech is the best way to get into the universe. its set in a nice little corner where they could be pretty free in making up lore, but it gives you a good feel for the tone and some concept of the bigger players. or you could just play MW3 or 4 if you're into retro games
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Dumb questions about the Timber Wolf, sorry:
1. As the keeb is plateless, will the top half of the case be used in its place? Or will the switches be soldered directly into the PCB?
2. The renders look tight. Can screw-in stabs fit?
3. Is the bottom case a solid chunk of aluminum or is it hollow?
4. Since this is such a big case, can I fit a dampening pad between the bottom case and the PCB without creating too much pressure on the PCB?
5. I'm sure switches and caps contribute to this, but in general can you describe how it felt like to type on the prototypes?
6. Is the BattleTech game developed Harebrained and produced by Paradox a good introduction to the BattleTech universe?
Thanks in advance!
1. there is no plate that the switches clip into, instead it relies on the pcb fixing pins on the switch itself, which works pretty good. there are a few drawbacks to this - mainly, switch makers dont all follow cherry spec and some have thicc legs (gateron) and some have skinny ones (kailh cream). i tuned the hole size to make it so it's not painful to insert gats, but kailh creams are definitely a bit loose. still, once you solder them, they're secure
2. not sure what you mean by tight, but yes screw ins fit (they are even required if you want to do a 2u delete)
3 and 4. it's a solid chunk of aluminum, there is roughly 1mm between the bottom of the switch leg and the top of the inside of the bottom case (using cherry spec switches, this may vary a bit with other oems). this means that you should be able to fit a 1mm piece of rubber, or up to a 2.5mm thick piece of foam if it's open enough to allow switch legs to poke through with ease. personally, i dont really think it's necessary, as it doesn't sound hollow at all to me, but it is something i plan to test to see if it makes a difference
5. at the end of the day, i definitely think that switches make the biggest difference, and to be honest, i don't have that much experience with other custom keyboards to compare it to. but i am enjoying the flex quite a bit, as it still gives me a very satisfying bottom out without feeling like im slamming my fingers into the desk like on some experimental boards i've made with zero flex (though honestly, i do enjoy that style as well, it's pretty fun with clickies). there are definitely flexier boards, but...id say this one is up there. to give you an idea, other keycaps visibly move if i just go like asdfasdfasdf (though just barely)
6. id say hbs's battletech is the best way to get into the universe. its set in a nice little corner where they could be pretty free in making up lore, but it gives you a good feel for the tone and some concept of the bigger players. or you could just play MW3 or 4 if you're into retro games
Thanks for the fast response!
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Have been curious --- you initially said that you were looking to make about 20 units for this first group buy.
Is that plan still holding? Is there way more interest now? Is the plan to start the GB shortly after the third prototype arrives?
Best,
Fog
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Have been curious --- you initially said that you were looking to make about 20 units for this first group buy.
Is that plan still holding? Is there way more interest now? Is the plan to start the GB shortly after the third prototype arrives?
Best,
Fog
Right now I'm thinking around 40, with 20 as the MOQ. There's more interest than I was expecting, but it's hard to say how much interest will translate into sales, and I really don't want to go too crazy on my first GB. That being said, I will be ordering extras of everything except for one-off layouts for QA purposes, and selling extras/B-stock after all orders have been fulfilled.
The manu has sent photos of the 3rd proto and it looks good (well, colors are kind of a mixed bag, but all that info will be in my next update when i actually get them and i can say for certain), they say they fixed the only issues I had with the last one, so I'm preparing everything for the GB now, getting final quotes for pricing, etc.
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Right now I'm thinking around 40, with 20 as the MOQ. There's more interest than I was expecting, but it's hard to say how much interest will translate into sales, and I really don't want to go too crazy on my first GB. That being said, I will be ordering extras of everything except for one-off layouts for QA purposes, and selling extras/B-stock after all orders have been fulfilled.
The manu has sent photos of the 3rd proto and it looks good (well, colors are kind of a mixed bag, but all that info will be in my next update when i actually get them and i can say for certain), they say they fixed the only issues I had with the last one, so I'm preparing everything for the GB now, getting final quotes for pricing, etc.
Will you consider preorders separate or combined with the GB? I really want this board.
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Right now I'm thinking around 40, with 20 as the MOQ. There's more interest than I was expecting, but it's hard to say how much interest will translate into sales, and I really don't want to go too crazy on my first GB. That being said, I will be ordering extras of everything except for one-off layouts for QA purposes, and selling extras/B-stock after all orders have been fulfilled.
The manu has sent photos of the 3rd proto and it looks good (well, colors are kind of a mixed bag, but all that info will be in my next update when i actually get them and i can say for certain), they say they fixed the only issues I had with the last one, so I'm preparing everything for the GB now, getting final quotes for pricing, etc.
Will you consider preorders separate or combined with the GB? I really want this board.
I don't think preorders really make sense for what im trying with this GB. but if you cant get in on the GB and miss the extras, I do plan on running a second round at some point if people are interested. probably not soon though, as there are a lot of other designs I want to make first
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Makes sense on your part - like you no idea how many interests actually translate to sales and how that works with scaling with the manufacturers. I mean I have no idea how much work goes on with the manufacturers but I’m sure it’s nothing to scoff at. Since this is my first rodeo in buying it just makes me nervous about how strong demand can out pace supply. Like just last Saturday summitcables weekly order sold out in a minute.
I realize that comparison is a little different, but I believe you have created something really special and I hope I can get to be a part of it.
Side note I’d Love to hear from you how demanding this was at the end of the day. I’ve had ideas myself for keycaps and wonder what the perspective as a first timer - lessons learned would be after you get there.
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Prototype #3 update!
So, the third and final prototype is in, as well as a few color samples I requested. I have good and bad things to say.
The good is that manufacturing is on point. I'm done with all the tiny tweaks, the thread issues from the last prototype are resolved, and I have zero complaints.
But the anodization factory that my manu uses isn't doing a great job with matching to requested colors. To give you an idea, the color I requested for the prototype itself was Pantone 8481-C.
It's definitely disappointing, but I don't think it's disastrous. If you look at the color sample blocks, I ordered a different shade for blue grey and it turned out blue grey-ish (still more blue than I'd like, but not too bad, and I'll talk to the factory about making it more grey).
My question for you guys is to do with the shade of purple. As you can see in the second image, there are two shades of purple that I've requested, but I want to leave it up to you guys, since purple's inclusion is based on the results of the IC. Let me know if you prefer the violet (darker shade that was done on the bottom case of the previous prototype) or the magenta (brighter shade that was done on an aluminum block) https://www.strawpoll.me/18585707
That being said, I think this GB is going to have to have a huge disclaimer that colors may not be what we're expecting, to the point where I might not even include any color samples in the GB page. I'm not happy about it, but I mean...perfect colors were never the focus of this project.
Also included a shot of the engraving of the variant designation (each layout gets their own, such as TBR-A or TBR-B, etc.) - it's on the inside of the top case, so pretty well hidden, but I like knowing that it's there.
As far as what's next, I'm waiting for a final quote from the manu, to see exactly what the price premium will be for custom layouts.
[attach=1] [attach=2]
[attach=3] [attach=4]
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Prototype #3 update!
So, the third and final prototype is in, as well as a few color samples I requested. I have good and bad things to say.
The good is that manufacturing is on point. I'm done with all the tiny tweaks, the thread issues from the last prototype are resolved, and I have zero complaints.
But the anodization factory that my manu uses isn't doing a great job with matching to requested colors. To give you an idea, the color I requested for the prototype itself was Pantone 8481-C.
It's definitely disappointing, but I don't think it's disastrous. If you look at the color sample blocks, I ordered a different shade for blue grey and it turned out blue grey-ish (still more blue than I'd like, but not too bad, and I'll talk to the factory about making it more grey).
My question for you guys is to do with the shade of purple. As you can see in the second image, there are two shades of purple that I've requested, but I want to leave it up to you guys, since purple's inclusion is based on the results of the IC. Let me know if you prefer the violet (darker shade that was done on the bottom case of the previous prototype) or the magenta (brighter shade that was done on an aluminum block) https://www.strawpoll.me/18585707
That being said, I think this GB is going to have to have a huge disclaimer that colors may not be what we're expecting, to the point where I might not even include any color samples in the GB page. I'm not happy about it, but I mean...perfect colors were never the focus of this project.
Also included a shot of the engraving of the variant designation (each layout gets their own, such as TBR-A or TBR-B, etc.) - it's on the inside of the top case, so pretty well hidden, but I like knowing that it's there.
As far as what's next, I'm waiting for a final quote from the manu, to see exactly what the price premium will be for custom layouts.
Sweet Sweet Updates. Voted on the poll, back-of-the-keeb/darker-shade/violet all the way. I'm not too hung about the colors though. Layout + build has always been king to me.
Can't wait for the GB. Do you have a est time for when the manu gets back to you and when the GB may potentially begin?
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Sweet Sweet Updates. Voted on the poll, back-of-the-keeb/darker-shade/violet all the way. I'm not too hung about the colors though. Layout + build has always been king to me.
Can't wait for the GB. Do you have a est time for when the manu gets back to you and when the GB may potentially begin?
Just sent an email nagging them this morning lol, so hopefully soon.
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Thanks for the update! This made my day. As per the colors, I always wanted a white keyboard, so settling with silver. Would certainly pay more to get a white one though.
As per the purples I feel like the first one is closer to the blue, so I'd say go with the second.
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When I first saw this board, I thought "pssshhhh this is ridiculous". I keep coming back to it and thinking "this is ridiculous!".
So long as the price is right, I'm in.
I'd also love to see/hear more about the pcb. You must have done some serious design work supporting all these layouts. Kudos!
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I'd also love to see/hear more about the pcb. You must have done some serious design work supporting all these layouts. Kudos!
Yeah most of the pcb design time was for supporting layouts - allowing for as many as possible without making it hell to build. im pretty satisfied with where i am, where there are only a few keys that are may require straightening (and im ordering a prototype pcb to try to reduce that possibility as well). like, it looks like the most swiss cheese pcb ever, but ive spent a lot of time trying to reduce the negative effects of that
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Yeah most of the pcb design time was for supporting layouts - allowing for as many as possible without making it hell to build. im pretty satisfied with where i am, where there are only a few keys that are may require straightening (and im ordering a prototype pcb to try to reduce that possibility as well). like, it looks like the most swiss cheese pcb ever, but ive spent a lot of time trying to reduce the negative effects of that
Are there disadvantages to a swiss cheese pcb?
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Are there disadvantages to a swiss cheese pcb?
the two big downsides are aesthetics (i like a nice looking pcb, but id never compromise functionality for the sake of aesthetics on a part that isnt even seen when fully assembled), and losing holes for pcb mount switch pins. this is the big disadvantage imo, but like i said, im working to minimize the effects of this. in my testing, ive found that as long as you have one pcb mounting pin hole, the switch doesnt need straightening, but there are a few places where both are compromised (backspace, left shift, certain spacebar positions). i am ordering a pcb to test hole geometries to try to keep switches straight in those positions, as well.
theoretically, swiss cheese can also effect flex (not noticeable imo, and i didnt notice any weirdness when i was doing my flex analysis in fusion) and i can tell you that it makes routing more difficult, but that just makes my life harder.
i might be forgetting something but i dont think so
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Will we be able to order extra PCBs?
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I'd also love to see/hear more about the pcb. You must have done some serious design work supporting all these layouts. Kudos!
Yeah most of the pcb design time was for supporting layouts - allowing for as many as possible without making it hell to build. im pretty satisfied with where i am, where there are only a few keys that are may require straightening (and im ordering a prototype pcb to try to reduce that possibility as well). like, it looks like the most swiss cheese pcb ever, but ive spent a lot of time trying to reduce the negative effects of that
Would love to see a picture when the protos come in, for no other reason than to marvel at how you manage to pull it off.
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Will we be able to order extra PCBs?
extra pcbs and top cases will be available in the GB, yeah. afterwards too, probably
Would love to see a picture when the protos come in, for no other reason than to marvel at how you manage to pull it off.
not the final design, but this is a shot of the right side, which is where all the interesting stuff happens. hardest part to design was stuff you dont see though - decisions of what not to include, and such.
[attach=1]
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not the final design, but this is a shot of the right side, which is where all the interesting stuff happens. hardest part to design was stuff you dont see though - decisions of what not to include, and such.
Not final design? I'm both sadened by the prospects of more changes (and possible waiting) but am also happy you seem to be planning for a lot of things with this. Having looked at a few friend's PCB's this looks like it'll be a lot of fun to build with!
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Not final design? I'm both sadened by the prospects of more changes (and possible waiting) but am also happy you seem to be planning for a lot of things with this. Having looked at a few friend's PCB's this looks like it'll be a lot of fun to build with!
no worries, waiting for the pcb isnt a factor. dont tell anyone but im writing up a post about the GB timeline where it starts in two weeks ;)
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no worries, waiting for the pcb isnt a factor. dont tell anyone but im writing up a post about the GB timeline where it starts in two weeks ;)
Thanks for the fast responses. You've been really on top of things for everyone here with questions.
I'll be sure to be quiet.
Side question that I'm just curious about - does the manufacturer limit the amount of colors you can choose? My assumption is it makes it easier to run a GB when you do a limited amount of colors so you don't get a bunch of people upset over a purple not being 'purple enough'.
Keep up the good work. Hope I can luck into landing one.
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Side question that I'm just curious about - does the manufacturer limit the amount of colors you can choose? My assumption is it makes it easier to run a GB when you do a limited amount of colors so you don't get a bunch of people upset over a purple not being 'purple enough'.
Keep up the good work. Hope I can luck into landing one.
manu just charges extra for more colors, and its not a whole lot. main thing limiting color choice is that a) more colors means even more combinations to worry about and even less ability to order extras of everything for QA purposes, and b) x factors like you said. fwiw, future boards that i run will be a lot more limited in options in pretty much every way (including color), but i had a vision for this super customizable board, and its possible, so i guess im gonna do it lol
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Makes perfect sense. I guess only thing for me is I'd want to know how they paint it (I guess there are different ways?) so if I decide I want a different color I know what to tell the guys at the local powder coating place how to properly strip it. Last time I took them my computer case, they were annoyed I didn't know how it was powder coated before, and had issues removing the old paint.
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Makes perfect sense. I guess only thing for me is I'd want to know how they paint it (I guess there are different ways?) so if I decide I want a different color I know what to tell the guys at the local powder coating place how to properly strip it. Last time I took them my computer case, they were annoyed I didn't know how it was powder coated before, and had issues removing the old paint.
It's anodized, the color comes from a dye they use in the anodization process. i believe type 2 anodization in particular
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Lol but why? I would be surprised if you find more than 5 people who want to get onboard with this. You seriously don’t use the enter button next to the alphas? You go all the way to numpad enter? Once again, why?
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Lol but why? I would be surprised if you find more than 5 people who want to get onboard with this. You seriously don’t use the enter button next to the alphas? You go all the way to numpad enter? Once again, why?
I mean, it uses the 2u numpad keys, but if I decide to go with those I personally won't use it for enter or adding.
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Lol but why? I would be surprised if you find more than 5 people who want to get onboard with this. You seriously don’t use the enter button next to the alphas? You go all the way to numpad enter? Once again, why?
I mean, it uses the 2u numpad keys, but if I decide to go with those I personally won't use it for enter or adding.
Yeah, they can be whatever you want them to be with QMK.
I'm thinking they might also be nice spots for 2U artisan keycaps I don't often get a chance to use.
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Lol but why? I would be surprised if you find more than 5 people who want to get onboard with this. You seriously don’t use the enter button next to the alphas? You go all the way to numpad enter? Once again, why?
Wow man. Way to **** on someone's hard working project. Last thing I checked new things are nice and different. Why have every keeb be the same? Your comment really adds nothing extra to the conversation.
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Lol but why? I would be surprised if you find more than 5 people who want to get onboard with this. You seriously don’t use the enter button next to the alphas? You go all the way to numpad enter? Once again, why?
It's all about preference. It might not make sense to you, but it does make sense to me. I actually use the enter key on the numpad when using a 104-key full layout board. It's just how I do things.
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It's anodized, the color comes from a dye they use in the anodization process. i believe type 2 anodization in particular
Thanks for the quick response.
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Not final design? I'm both sadened by the prospects of more changes (and possible waiting) but am also happy you seem to be planning for a lot of things with this. Having looked at a few friend's PCB's this looks like it'll be a lot of fun to build with!
no worries, waiting for the pcb isnt a factor. dont tell anyone but im writing up a post about the GB timeline where it starts in two weeks ;)
do my eyes deceive me?
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Not final design? I'm both sadened by the prospects of more changes (and possible waiting) but am also happy you seem to be planning for a lot of things with this. Having looked at a few friend's PCB's this looks like it'll be a lot of fun to build with!
no worries, waiting for the pcb isnt a factor. dont tell anyone but im writing up a post about the GB timeline where it starts in two weeks ;)
How long will the GB run? There are too many good GB's running and my wallet can't keep up :(
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Lol but why? I would be surprised if you find more than 5 people who want to get onboard with this. You seriously don’t use the enter button next to the alphas? You go all the way to numpad enter? Once again, why?
basically, it's for your right thumb to hit when it's on the mouse. I've talked about this at length elsewhere in the thread. People who aren't into that can choose a different layout, or just use 2 1u keys there. I do still think it's a bit of a niche board at the end of the day, but I think the community's large enough for niche products. I'm certainly prepared to be wrong though :)
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Group Buy Timeline & Pricing
The GB launches on 9/20 at 8PM PST. It will run for one week, or until we reach 40 units. I have no idea which will happen first. Gonna set an MOQ of 25, though.
A full kit with the TBR-Prime layout will go for $365 + PP fees and shipping. Full kits with TBR-A and TBR-B layouts will run for $390. If you instead choose to get a custom layout (choosing a specific left side (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/d00e5b9efa0233b7d5761dcd04fb4b5e), top row (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e74df27f94eb5110c1ad3e65fd1da2be), and right side (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/12a917bd155fc2528dfed551041ad3b4)), that will be $465. You will also be able to order extra PCBs and top cases - PCBs will be an extra $60, for the top case it will be $150 for the Prime, $175 for the A or B, and $250 for a custom.
I've already had prototypes made for the TBR-A (top) and TBR-B (bottom) layouts (https://imgur.com/GAZQa3Y), but before we launch the GB, I wanted to do kind of a second IC, so that I can nail down what exact configurations would best suit most people. It's just 4 questions, multiple choice, should only take a minute. If you just want the TBR-Prime layout, that's locked in so you don't need to worry about filling this out.
IC Form 2 (https://forms.gle/mKTs2E8y5ArwMord6)
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Group Buy Timeline & Pricing
The GB launches on 9/20 at 8PM PST. It will run for one week, or until we reach 40 units. I have no idea which will happen first. Gonna set an MOQ of 25, though.
A full kit with the TBR-Prime layout will go for $365 + PP fees and shipping. Full kits with TBR-A and TBR-B layouts will run for $390. If you instead choose to get a custom layout (choosing a specific left side (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/d00e5b9efa0233b7d5761dcd04fb4b5e), top row (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e74df27f94eb5110c1ad3e65fd1da2be), and right side (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/12a917bd155fc2528dfed551041ad3b4)), that will be $465. You will also be able to order extra PCBs and top cases - PCBs will be an extra $60, for the top case it will be $150 for the Prime, $175 for the A or B, and $250 for a custom.
I've already had prototypes made for the TBR-A (top) and TBR-B (bottom) layouts (https://imgur.com/GAZQa3Y), but before we launch the GB, I wanted to do kind of a second IC, so that I can nail down what exact configurations would best suit most people. It's just 4 questions, multiple choice, should only take a minute. If you just want the TBR-Prime layout, that's locked in so you don't need to worry about filling this out.
IC Form 2 (https://forms.gle/mKTs2E8y5ArwMord6)
Best news I’ve had all day. IC Form 2 filled, I want that TBR-B! Have you finalized the color options the GB will have? Thanks!
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Best news I’ve had all day. IC Form 2 filled, I want that TBR-B! Have you finalized the color options the GB will have? Thanks!
colors will be: dark gray, blue gray, rose gold, violet, red, and silver
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Best news I’ve had all day. IC Form 2 filled, I want that TBR-B! Have you finalized the color options the GB will have? Thanks!
colors will be: dark gray, blue gray, rose gold, violet, red, and silver
Do we have a blue gray sample?
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Best news I’ve had all day. IC Form 2 filled, I want that TBR-B! Have you finalized the color options the GB will have? Thanks!
colors will be: dark gray, blue gray, rose gold, violet, red, and silver
Do we have a blue gray sample?
yes and no. there are pictures of it in a post i made near the top of this page (it's the aluminum block next to the keeb), but im working with the factory to change it to something more gray. im pretty pessimistic about my factory's ability to color match, and im gonna be making that super clear in the GB, but i'll be doing my best to get it as close to my desired colors as possible
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*Checks wallet*
*Chuckles*
I'm in danger
Spent so much on other parts this past month hopefully I can afford to buy this or if you eventually do a round 2 lol
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*Checks wallet*
*Chuckles*
I'm in danger
Spent so much on other parts this past month hopefully I can afford to buy this or if you eventually do a round 2 lol
You've got ~13 days, donate blood/plasma, switch to a ramen only diet, dig really deep into the couch, cagefight on Solaris 7?
I don't think this will have any issues hitting MOQ. Though, any word on estimated delivery dates? Would be pretty slick to have it around the time MW5 releases (assuming it does on time).
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I very much think that tbr-a right side #2 should have long shift instead of that menu key. I voted for #1 because I don't like that menu key. If it was longer shift would've instantly voted #2. (TBF this is pretty specific request on an already specific board so I think #1 may just be the better choice but I wanted to mention anyways.)
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TBR-B with the TC-V3 style cluster is sooooo clean, think that will be what I go for!
It's funny/terrible because Duck will be doing TC-V3 extras very soon so I might have to decide which one to go if I'm able to get both :(
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I just went in on a BOCC.... but I need this Bad Wolf too... so... let the pain begin!
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Deciding on what layout to get is the hardest. I may wind up getting two :thumb:.
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I am sad that most of the ic I follow decided to have their group buy in September. Wanted to get either BOCC or this but unfortunately I am a broke university student. (Also spent on 9009) Was hoping for an october or november gb, well I hope the Primus takes its time so I would hopefully have money by then.
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*Checks wallet*
*Chuckles*
I'm in danger
Spent so much on other parts this past month hopefully I can afford to buy this or if you eventually do a round 2 lol
You've got ~13 days, donate blood/plasma, switch to a ramen only diet, dig really deep into the couch, cagefight on Solaris 7?
I don't think this will have any issues hitting MOQ. Though, any word on estimated delivery dates? Would be pretty slick to have it around the time MW5 releases (assuming it does on time).
Based on my manu's estimated, id say about 2-3 months, but im sure there will be complications, so i think 4-5 at least to be "safe". I'll have something more specific in the GB thread
I very much think that tbr-a right side #2 should have long shift instead of that menu key. I voted for #1 because I don't like that menu key. If it was longer shift would've instantly voted #2. (TBF this is pretty specific request on an already specific board so I think #1 may just be the better choice but I wanted to mention anyways.)
Yeah, pcb supports 2.75u shift there so no worries. if you want ill pretend you voted #2 lol
Deciding on what layout to get is the hardest. I may wind up getting two :thumb:.
haha i think ill get a few more than 2 ;) part of the design is that it's easy to change between top pieces too, so you can change depending on if a layout is better for certain workflows, or in my case, just use the -A day to day and throw the -Prime on when you want it to look naise
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I very much think that tbr-a right side #2 should have long shift instead of that menu key. I voted for #1 because I don't like that menu key. If it was longer shift would've instantly voted #2. (TBF this is pretty specific request on an already specific board so I think #1 may just be the better choice but I wanted to mention anyways.)
Yeah, pcb supports 2.75u shift there so no worries. if you want ill pretend you voted #2 lol
Oops! I didn't think that would be possible. Yeah definitely put me down for 2, thanks!
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How would the typing experience differ from a keyboard with a plate? I'm looking to buy my first custom board and I really like this, but from my understanding a plate offers rigidity and weight. Does a plate offer anything else?
Is typing on a flexible keyboard as satisfying? What are the acoustics like?
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How would the typing experience differ from a keyboard with a plate? I'm looking to buy my first custom board and I really like this, but from my understanding a plate offers rigidity and weight. Does a plate offer anything else?
Is typing on a flexible keyboard as satisfying? What are the acoustics like?
a plate will generally make the keyboard more rigid, yes. weight is kind of a non factor though. whether you prefer flex or not is personal preference - i like it, as its almost like a bit of shock absorption, but it still is a nice solid clean bottom out unlike the kind you get on silenced switches. i also like it acoustically, as i think plates can kind of muck up the sound, but again thats a preference thing
there are some more cut-and-dry downsides to plateless though. id say its a little bit harder to design and build on average, and it limits switch choice to only pcb-mount switches (so no alps, holy panda, kailh box, etc).
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How would the typing experience differ from a keyboard with a plate? I'm looking to buy my first custom board and I really like this, but from my understanding a plate offers rigidity and weight. Does a plate offer anything else?
Is typing on a flexible keyboard as satisfying? What are the acoustics like?
a plate will generally make the keyboard more rigid, yes. weight is kind of a non factor though. whether you prefer flex or not is personal preference - i like it, as its almost like a bit of shock absorption, but it still is a nice solid clean bottom out unlike the kind you get on silenced switches. i also like it acoustically, as i think plates can kind of muck up the sound, but again thats a preference thing
there are some more cut-and-dry downsides to plateless though. id say its a little bit harder to design and build on average, and it limits switch choice to only pcb-mount switches (so no alps, holy panda, kailh box, etc).
Speaking of acoustics, how do unlubed clicky switches (I’m thinking Box Navies) sound on this board? For obvious reasons, the Timber Wolf will be my home board and I want it to be as irreverently noisy and obnoxiously loud as possible when I type.
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How would the typing experience differ from a keyboard with a plate? I'm looking to buy my first custom board and I really like this, but from my understanding a plate offers rigidity and weight. Does a plate offer anything else?
Is typing on a flexible keyboard as satisfying? What are the acoustics like?
a plate will generally make the keyboard more rigid, yes. weight is kind of a non factor though. whether you prefer flex or not is personal preference - i like it, as its almost like a bit of shock absorption, but it still is a nice solid clean bottom out unlike the kind you get on silenced switches. i also like it acoustically, as i think plates can kind of muck up the sound, but again thats a preference thing
there are some more cut-and-dry downsides to plateless though. id say its a little bit harder to design and build on average, and it limits switch choice to only pcb-mount switches (so no alps, holy panda, kailh box, etc).
Speaking of acoustics, how do unlubed clicky switches (I’m thinking Box Navies) sound on this board? For obvious reasons, the Timber Wolf will be my home board and I want it to be as irreverently noisy and obnoxiously loud as possible when I type.
tbh i dont think clickies are your best bet on this board. it doesnt support alps or box switches (the two best clicky types ive tried), so you'd be stuck with either mx blue-style switches, or frankenstotles. the latter ive heard good things about, but havent tried.
still, i do think blues get a bad rap (i mean i hate the click jacket noise & rattle, but the tactility is better than i remembered when i tried a new batch recently) so maybe you could make that work, but in general i wouldnt say this keeb is built for clickies, since i do think clicky switches benefit from a plate
you could still make it work, but id recommend focusing on keycaps for that. pbt mt3 in particular sounds amazing with clickies imo, its like black magic
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quick Q to make sure. Does the pcb support split right shift alongside split backspace for the prime option?
edit:
realised no plate
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quick Q to make sure. Does the pcb support split right shift alongside split backspace for the prime option?
edit:
realised no plate
so yeah, it supports both
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so yeah, it supports both
thanks for confirming! two more Qs:
-Do you have a full photo of a built prototype without the keycaps on? would be great to see.
-What is the colour on right? I am assuming the left is the smoke grey? The one on the right has this really nice deep green blueish hue, leaning more on the deep green end.
[attach=1]
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I don't think this will have any issues hitting MOQ. Though, any word on estimated delivery dates?
Based on my manu's estimated, id say about 2-3 months, but im sure there will be complications, so i think 4-5 at least to be "safe". I'll have something more specific in the GB thread
Yeah we don’t have all the information you have but I can imagine this manufacturer is overseas. If in China I could easily understand delays if a new round of tariffs went in. Heck sometimes clearing customs can delay items quite a while.
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Just was reading the other users question about wanting a real loud board - do you think the lack of a plate can make it quieter assuming one is using quiet switches? My rig is set up in a lofted part of my bedroom and quiet keyboards are essential to stave wife agro.
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so yeah, it supports both
thanks for confirming! two more Qs:
-Do you have a full photo of a built prototype without the keycaps on? would be great to see.
-What is the colour on right? I am assuming the left is the smoke grey? The one on the right has this really nice deep green blueish hue, leaning more on the deep green end.
(Attachment Link)
I like that color too, just wanted to say. :thumb:
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thanks for confirming! two more Qs:
-Do you have a full photo of a built prototype without the keycaps on? would be great to see.
-What is the colour on right? I am assuming the left is the smoke grey? The one on the right has this really nice deep green blueish hue, leaning more on the deep green end.
(Attachment Link)
I like that color too, just wanted to say. :thumb:
- I don't, but I'm planning to do a basic assembly video next weekend, so there'll be some shots there. fwiw, the pcb is all matte black on the front (right now i do have a silk screen on the front, but im removing that for the GB
- Yeah I like that color too, but 6 colors is already too much. my next GB tho, im getting a bit more creative with colors and i want to have something like that there. this GB i kinda wanted to just do standard stuff for colors
Just was reading the other users question about wanting a real loud board - do you think the lack of a plate can make it quieter assuming one is using quiet switches? My rig is set up in a lofted part of my bedroom and quiet keyboards are essential to stave wife agro.
sort of. i think it would be more accurate to say that not having a plate won't make it more loud. i think if quietness is your goal, you can design a plated keyboard to be quieter than this one, so i wouldnt sell this as a quiet keyboard, but as long as it's well insulated from your desk (thick deskmats are a lifesaver here) it has relatively little resonance, which is the part of keeb sound that i dont like
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tbh i dont think clickies are your best bet on this board. it doesnt support alps or box switches (the two best clicky types ive tried), so you'd be stuck with either mx blue-style switches, or frankenstotles. the latter ive heard good things about, but havent tried.
still, i do think blues get a bad rap (i mean i hate the click jacket noise & rattle, but the tactility is better than i remembered when i tried a new batch recently) so maybe you could make that work, but in general i wouldnt say this keeb is built for clickies, since i do think clicky switches benefit from a plate
you could still make it work, but id recommend focusing on keycaps for that. pbt mt3 in particular sounds amazing with clickies imo, its like black magic
That's a shame, but I don't mind using tactiles on this board. What other types of switches aren't compatible with the Timber's PCB? What about Zealios v2 (My plan B)?
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tbh i dont think clickies are your best bet on this board. it doesnt support alps or box switches (the two best clicky types ive tried), so you'd be stuck with either mx blue-style switches, or frankenstotles. the latter ive heard good things about, but havent tried.
still, i do think blues get a bad rap (i mean i hate the click jacket noise & rattle, but the tactility is better than i remembered when i tried a new batch recently) so maybe you could make that work, but in general i wouldnt say this keeb is built for clickies, since i do think clicky switches benefit from a plate
you could still make it work, but id recommend focusing on keycaps for that. pbt mt3 in particular sounds amazing with clickies imo, its like black magic
That's a shame, but I don't mind using tactiles on this board. What other types of switches aren't compatible with the Timber's PCB? What about Zealios v2 (My plan B)?
all pcb-mount switches are compatible, so yeah all zeal switches are pcb mount. pretty much all gat and cherry switches have a pcb mount option as well, T1s, everglides, most non-box kailhs...really, kailh box and holy pandas are the only big ones i can think of that arent compatible
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all pcb-mount switches are compatible, so yeah all zeal switches are pcb mount. pretty much all gat and cherry switches have a pcb mount option as well, T1s, everglides, most non-box kailhs...really, kailh box and holy pandas are the only big ones i can think of that arent compatible
Thanks for saving me, my sorry ass didn't know box switches only have three legs/pins :(
Edit: Also I hope it’s cool, I filled up the IC Form for TBR-B, but I might get the TBR-Prime instead.
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What would be the layout for the next board ? Would love something like this but in an even bigger non conventional layout
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all pcb-mount switches are compatible, so yeah all zeal switches are pcb mount. pretty much all gat and cherry switches have a pcb mount option as well, T1s, everglides, most non-box kailhs...really, kailh box and holy pandas are the only big ones i can think of that arent compatible
Thanks for saving me, my sorry ass didn't know box switches only have three legs/pins :(
Edit: Also I hope it’s cool, I filled up the IC Form for TBR-B, but I might get the TBR-Prime instead.
Yeah thats no problem i think a lot of people did that lol
What would be the layout for the next board ? Would love something like this but in an even bigger non conventional layout
IC will be up before this GB goes live, but i'll say that it's bigger in one dimension but not the other
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I have another dumb question: If you pick out a layout that has a knob, will the order include a rotary encoder? If not, where can we buy some which are compatible with the Timber Wolf?
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I have another dumb question: If you pick out a layout that has a knob, will the order include a rotary encoder? If not, where can we buy some which are compatible with the Timber Wolf?
Yeah that sort of info will be gone into detail in the GB post, but basic answer is that it will come with an encoder and knob; basically everything required to fully build except for switches and caps
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Can I just ask if the case and the PCB support ISO layout?
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Can I just ask if the case and the PCB support ISO layout?
Yup, iso enter and split left shift
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I want this board bad, but I'm an ultraNOOB who never learned to solder...
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I want this board bad, but I'm an ultraNOOB who never learned to solder...
You can always do what I do and have someone else assemble it. Lots of people offer build services.
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I want this board bad, but I'm an ultraNOOB who never learned to solder...
Hell that's what I plan on doing. I plan to buy extra PCB's just so I can give a go later.
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I want this board bad, but I'm an ultraNOOB who never learned to solder...
I want this board bad, but I'm an ultraNOOB who never learned to solder...
Hell that's what I plan on doing. I plan to buy extra PCB's just so I can give a go later.
soldering's actually pretty easy :) especially through-hole, which will be all you have to worry about. if you're anxious about it, i recommend watching some youtube videos about it getting a practice kit (you can find them on amazon for super cheap, or get a practice60 on cannonkeys), it will help you get comfortable with it.
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soldering's actually pretty easy :) especially through-hole, which will be all you have to worry about. if you're anxious about it, i recommend watching some youtube videos about it getting a practice kit (you can find them on amazon for super cheap, or get a practice60 on cannonkeys), it will help you get comfortable with it.
Through-hole? Intriguing. So I don't know much about PCBs, but is that why the TBR PCB has none of that gold circuitry I see in other PCBs?
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Are you still planning to release details on your second board before this group buy?
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soldering's actually pretty easy :) especially through-hole, which will be all you have to worry about. if you're anxious about it, i recommend watching some youtube videos about it getting a practice kit (you can find them on amazon for super cheap, or get a practice60 on cannonkeys), it will help you get comfortable with it.
Through-hole? Intriguing. So I don't know much about PCBs, but is that why the TBR PCB has none of that gold circuitry I see in other PCBs?
I think he means "compared to soldering components on a side of the PCB where there's no hole", like this chip :
(https://jeelabs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_4973-Version-2.jpg)
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soldering's actually pretty easy :) especially through-hole, which will be all you have to worry about. if you're anxious about it, i recommend watching some youtube videos about it getting a practice kit (you can find them on amazon for super cheap, or get a practice60 on cannonkeys), it will help you get comfortable with it.
Through-hole? Intriguing. So I don't know much about PCBs, but is that why the TBR PCB has none of that gold circuitry I see in other PCBs?
I think he means "compared to soldering components on a side of the PCB where there's no hole", like this chip :
Show Image
(https://jeelabs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_4973-Version-2.jpg)
yeah, there's plenty of SMD stuff, it's just all taken care of at the factory. so all the end user has to worry about is through hole (switches)
Are you still planning to release details on your second board before this group buy?
i am. doing renders right now. eh **** it i'll post a tease here
[attachimg=1]
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yeah, there's plenty of SMD stuff, it's just all taken care of at the factory. so all the end user has to worry about is through hole (switches)
Okay whew.
i am. doing renders right now. eh **** it i'll post a tease here
(Attachment Link)
Looking pretty👌
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Are you still planning to release details on your second board before this group buy?
i am. doing renders right now. eh **** it i'll post a tease here
(Attachment Link)
I'm spending a little too much this month to get in on the Timber Wolf but this preview looks excellent as I rarely use the function row but want some funky layout craziness in my life!
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soldering's actually pretty easy :) especially through-hole, which will be all you have to worry about. if you're anxious about it, i recommend watching some youtube videos about it getting a practice kit (you can find them on amazon for super cheap, or get a practice60 on cannonkeys), it will help you get comfortable with it.
Through-hole? Intriguing. So I don't know much about PCBs, but is that why the TBR PCB has none of that gold circuitry I see in other PCBs?
I think he means "compared to soldering components on a side of the PCB where there's no hole", like this chip :
Show Image
(https://jeelabs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_4973-Version-2.jpg)
yeah, there's plenty of SMD stuff, it's just all taken care of at the factory. so all the end user has to worry about is through hole (switches)
Are you still planning to release details on your second board before this group buy?
i am. doing renders right now. eh **** it i'll post a tease here
[attachimg=1]
holy **** this is it chief
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i am. doing renders right now. eh **** it i'll post a tease here
(Attachment Link)
Wait a minute did the side profile change?? Coz I think I'm digging it.
Edit: No F-Row, and vertical 2u bars on both sides... interesting. Do you really want all my money? :))'
Edit 2: IS THAT A 65% + LEFT NUMPAD + KNOB?
Edit 3: I hope it's not too soon after the Timber Wolf :-X
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Oh have mercy. Appreciate you sharing the next idea before this GB, probably will just go with one in this GB now =)
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i am. doing renders right now. eh **** it i'll post a tease here
(Attachment Link)
Wait a minute did the side profile change?? Coz I think I'm digging it.
Edit: No F-Row, and vertical 2u bars on both sides... interesting. Do you really want all my money? :))'
Edit 2: IS THAT A 65% + LEFT NUMPAD + KNOB?
Edit 3: I hope it's not too soon after the Timber Wolf :-X
still rendering for the IC, but important to make clear that this won't run until Timber Wolf GB is fulfilled Part of the reason I'm trying to put the IC out before the Timber Wolf GB is to like, get that out of the way so I can focus on the Timber Wolf for the entire GB period.
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Are you planning to run this GB later with a bigger MOQ to reduce the price?
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Are you planning to run this GB later with a bigger MOQ to reduce the price?
Not OP, but believe he has stated running smaller MOQ as this is a first GB they have conducted. He has already raised the total boards he was willing to sell from 20 to 40ish so I’d say we’re pretty lucky in that regard.
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It's already the 20th in my country but we're 15 hours advance of PST. I can't wait to get my hands on this board UGH.
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It's already the 20th in my country but we're 15 hours advance of PST. I can't wait to get my hands on this board UGH.
Yeah I’m going to be pretty sad if I miss out. Kind of trying to design my own key set - specifically novelties around it. https://m.imgur.com/a/CrnG1og
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GB post is up
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=102520.0
Doing final preparations for the GB now
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Ooooh pretty. I’ll track this.
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oh yeah https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ODbtgi63lC6dMuo9HLnzPMIQW23OrphRB0QA2bqjVZo/edit?usp=sharing keep forgetting to post this here - build guide
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Wow it looks interesting
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end game potentially or end me potentially