Have you looked at Devlin at all? They already produce some flat caps like that: http://www.devlin.co.uk/products/components/keycaps.html
here are my 2 cents and some pocket lint: there's a small 3d printer called Cube that apparently is more available and priced for the common public http://cubify.com/en/Cube
i think the caps are the thing and not the packaging, a tight ziplock bag would be enough for me
maybe you could put it in a tiny cardboard box, for those who want thati think the caps are the thing and not the packaging, a tight ziplock bag would be enough for me
That's what I thought myself, I always throw away/ recylce most of the packaging I get unless I absolutely need it for returns/ purchases and even then that's only for big purchases.
Baggie it is :D
I am fine with the cheapest option as long as it comes in one piece. i.e. plastic bags in a bubblewrapped envelope.
EDIT: These are going to be in the lowest profile possible from that mockup you made, yes?
I'm curious if shapeways regular hi res plastics are adequate or if you will have to use the high detail frost like Matt3os mx-topre sliders.
Also, I would LOVE a set of these.
us ansi 104 key layout plz, maybe a tsangan kit too!
I am fine with the cheapest option as long as it comes in one piece. i.e. plastic bags in a bubblewrapped envelope.
EDIT: These are going to be in the lowest profile possible from that mockup you made, yes?
The mock ups are what I will be creating, yes. If you'd all like I can upload them for you all to download and play around with yourselves. I'd like to maintain some kind of ownership of the models ( at least for the time being) so I'm not sure how I could do that.
If you want to maintain ownership, I believe you can have basic and free protection against people who intend to use your models for profit. So for example someone else would be unable to legally use your models to sell their own keycaps unless you explicitly tell them they can.
If you want to maintain ownership, I believe you can have basic and free protection against people who intend to use your models for profit. So for example someone else would be unable to legally use your models to sell their own keycaps unless you explicitly tell them they can.
Maybe, I always figured I'd need a patent for that. It's really not THAT big a deal for me, so I'll probably upload them in the next few days when I can. They're hardly that hard to copy or recreate on your own I guess.
Considering 3 fonts at this point:
Font 1 (http://www.dafont.com/moshka-stencil.font?text=B+D+R+O+P+Q+A)
Font 2 (http://www.dafont.com/octin-stencil-free.font?text=B+D+R+O+P+Q+A)
Font 3 (http://www.dafont.com/stencilia.font?text=B+D+R+O+P+Q+A)
There's currently 2 font sets I prefer from the three, but I'm not sure which one is the best. If you guys like any of them let me know and I'll consider your opinion :)
Considering 3 fonts at this point:
Font 1 (http://www.dafont.com/moshka-stencil.font?text=B+D+R+O+P+Q+A)
Font 2 (http://www.dafont.com/octin-stencil-free.font?text=B+D+R+O+P+Q+A)
Font 3 (http://www.dafont.com/stencilia.font?text=B+D+R+O+P+Q+A)
There's currently 2 font sets I prefer from the three, but I'm not sure which one is the best. If you guys like any of them let me know and I'll consider your opinion :)
I can't wait for these, but as a graphic designer I can tell you I would not buy them if these are the fonts you go with :(
Just a bit of warning, the tests I did with flat keys were not favorable. You don't realize how much you subconsciously make use of the concavity of the keys for positional awareness until you start typing on flat keys, then you start making a lot more mistakes. They look cool, though.
Just out of curiosity, why do you want flat keycaps? Is there something specific that you dislike about cylindrical/spherical keycaps? Do you have a special purpose in mind?
For example, stenographic keyboards have somewhat flat keys without much gap between them, because multiple keys need to be pressed at the same time.
I don't really know... I doubt you could really get a patent for this either since it's so basic, but who knows...
If these keycaps are OEM height and have crossbars then I will buy a set.
I am currently looking at a rubberdome keyboard in front of me that has flat square/rectangular keycaps but they are obviously not cherry mx. But I really like them a lot. The keyboard came free with an Acer computer in 2012.
I've applied to a government patent assistance program here in the UAE, I'm not sure if this kind of thing is something they'd be interested in but I'll let you guys know what happens. Like I said, I most likely will release the files for everyone to play around with once I can solidify if/when/how I will produce these keys :)
You want to get a patent on flat keycaps? That doesn't make any sense to me...
There's probably 100 year old prior art on typewriters, or much older if you look at musical instruments. There's really nothing novel about a flat keycap.
Sounds interesting, but wouldn't the caps rub against each other if they're too close?
Sounds interesting, but wouldn't the caps rub against each other if they're too close?
If these use the same widths and lengths as standard keycaps, then it should be completely fine.
I couldn't see the keycaps wiggling around enough to actually make this a huge issue.
Sounds interesting, but wouldn't the caps rub against each other if they're too close?
If these use the same widths and lengths as standard keycaps, then it should be completely fine.
I couldn't see the keycaps wiggling around enough to actually make this a huge issue.
But wouldn't that defeat OP's purpose of having a seamless set of keys? I guess it will have seams between the keys and dust will still get under the caps.
DCS caps with a .750" or 19.05mm spacing on the keys will give you .035" between caps. Not a lot of room. I couldn't tell you what it is between DSA caps but I know it is a little less.
If these keycaps are OEM height and have crossbars then I will buy a set.
I am currently looking at a rubberdome keyboard in front of me that has flat square/rectangular keycaps but they are obviously not cherry mx. But I really like them a lot. The keyboard came free with an Acer computer in 2012.
Can you explain what you mean by crossbar? Do you mean the metal bars that go under the keys? I'm actually not aware of what the standard dimensions of those are (if there are even standard dimensions for them) but I'll definitely look for them or add them if someone can show me where I can find it.
When you turn a keycap upside down and look "upskirt" you see little crossbars or "reinforcement bars" on most keycaps. They are not metal but merely plastic. Most keycaps are made from plastic molds. The mold is shaped such as to produce these bars.
I really love flat keycaps. (Okay I also love Spherical keycaps, what can I say, I am a keycap maniac ;D) The more I think about this the more I am thinking I would like 3 sets of them depending on the price.
However I am a little bit dubious as to whether or not a printer can print keys with sufficient accuracy or not. I am just back from a 1 year GeekHack vacation. Are people printing keycaps these days and getting great results now?
Also, will there be a small nub on top of the "home keys" like there is on the F and J keys of a standard QWERTY set? You could get extra interest by including them as they help people keep their fingers aligned properly without having to look.
Sounds interesting, but wouldn't the caps rub against each other if they're too close?
Sounds interesting, but wouldn't the caps rub against each other if they're too close?
I don't know where it was, but there was a commercial water utility company somewhere in Latin America I believe that managed to get proprietary rights to rainwater and all the water found in nature within the country's borders, thereby enforcing them to use - and thus pay for - water exclusively supplied by them, even with law enforcement in place. Luckily, people were brave and started riots and ultimately the government decided to steer away from that company.
So, well, although the DNA in your body is largely patented by medical companies, meaning that theoretically you are partly indebted to those companies from the day someone is born, in this light, patenting a particular keycap design does not seem all that strange to me.
Er.... what?
Er.... what?
I think he meant to quote the person asking if I was really going to try and patent it. :))
Just so you know, the T series we can produce look like this:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/iSNzhwx.jpg)
They do indeed have vertical sides - not at an angle. The lip, is for use with vandalism keyboards.
I think we need to see some results first. I don't think anyone quite trusts the quality and accuracy as of this moment.
Get a couple in each size printed and photographed so we can see what we are dealing with.
Less than 1.0mm wall width will feel flimsy in PA even for something as small as a keycap, 1.5mm is pretty solid. I'd suggest to test a few variations of height, thickness and bevel, these caps won't most likely be satisfying in their current form.
Less than 1.0mm wall width will feel flimsy in PA even for something as small as a keycap, 1.5mm is pretty solid. I'd suggest to test a few variations of height, thickness and bevel, these caps won't most likely be satisfying in their current form.
What do you mean in PA? I'm trying to keep costs below 100 USD for a colored and polished set. Most standard keyboard caps are relatively thin aren't they? I understand it's always going to feel better the thicker the key caps are but they will add significantly to the price.
The ducky keycaps seem to use 1 mm wide walls, according to a friend, so I'll stick with that for now. Keys are being reworked right now and store will be updated soon with the newer models.
Edit: Filco apparently uses a thickness of .7 mm. Cherry even thinner, anyone else have an opinion on thickness of keycaps?
I think that 1mm thick walls will give us a balance of good price with a good feeling. Not sure if 3D printing has any differences with the rigidity of whatever it makes compared to molds, so I can't make a judgement on what would be the best.
Personally, I would just want to go with whatever is closest to white as possible.
Oh, if there are any key sets you'd like to see (87, modifiers, etc) I can do that so just let me know. I know not everyone will want a full 104 key set.
Oh, if there are any key sets you'd like to see (87, modifiers, etc) I can do that so just let me know. I know not everyone will want a full 104 key set.
Most people here I don't think use full keyboards as their daily drivers, I think that giving us an 87 key pack would be the most beneficial for everyone. Also, if you want to add modifiers, there are a few people floating around who would need tsangan sets and 7x spacebars. You could possibly do an oddpack that includes all the weird keys that some people may need.
Just a heads up, but the detailed frost material will yellow over time, so I'd advise not to use that unless you are just testing the strength or the level of detail you can achieve.
Just thought you might be interested in this blog post since it shows a new keyboard with flat keys: http://watchmonoblog.blog71.fc2.com/blog-entry-4464.html
The official manufacturer site is rapoo.com
http://www.rapoo.com/ProductShow.aspx?PType=8fQpYH%2b%2b7i8%3d&PID=uCupl3PJuVw%3d
Ah, okay cool, glad you already know of it :] I only know about it because I was looking for square keys myself a while back, and these were the only ones I could find...So I am very excited about how your project turns out!
I came across a pretty interesting keyboard on reddit today. Check it out. (http://imgur.com/a/HBLKj)I love those keycaps!
Be sure to click to view the full album on the bottom, and look at the last 2-3 pictures. Thought you might be interested in comparing the design of the keycaps.
This is all I needed to see of that Rapoo KX http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Tastaturen-Hardware-255538/Tests/Rapoo-KX-Erster-Test-1093071/galerie/2110488/#?a_id=1093071&g_id=-1&i_id=2110486
y, Kaihua / Kailh PG1511 switches... no thanks. Interesting caps, though.Have you tried those switches?
y, Kaihua / Kailh PG1511 switches... no thanks. Interesting caps, though.Have you tried those switches?
I don't actually really care if the switches are really any good or not. I just don't want to support Kailh as a company. I don't think they have been ethical in their blatant copying of Cherry's product and now they are taking over market share from Cherry. I know Cherry is partly to blame by not having better supply and pricing to some board makers, but I still don't want to support Kailh.
I don't actually really care if the switches are really any good or not. I just don't want to support Kailh as a company. I don't think they have been ethical in their blatant copying of Cherry's product and now they are taking over market share from Cherry. I know Cherry is partly to blame by not having better supply and pricing to some board makers, but I still don't want to support Kailh.
The patent expired. I know there were companies copying Cherry MX switches before that happened, there's nothing morally questionable about using things that have fallen out of patent, copyright, etc.
That's debatable...Have you ever interacted directly with Kaihua? You seem to have inferred quite a bit about their motivations, but I’m not sure your inferences are justified.
"Hmmm this company has been making these switches for many years and people are still buying them. Let's make some exactly the same, even using the same colours so we can fool people into thinking they're the same and make us some money! Oh yeah..."
"Oh hey, there's this company that makes poor quality keyboards and sells them to unsuspecting gamers through marketing BS... Let's partner with them to make an 'improved' version of our switch which is actually just the same as before so we can take advantage of their BS marketing and make even MORE money... Oh yeah!"
I mean if you're developing a new mechanical switch why make it exactly the same as the competition unless it's to get overflow sales through customer ignorance.
I admit that the lack of supply from Cherry has helped Kaihua's case, but it's still not what I would consider "ethical", just because it's "legal".
That's debatable...Have you ever interacted directly with Kaihua? You seem to have inferred quite a bit about their motivations, but I’m not sure your inferences are justified.
"Hmmm this company has been making these switches for many years and people are still buying them. Let's make some exactly the same, even using the same colours so we can fool people into thinking they're the same and make us some money! Oh yeah..."
"Oh hey, there's this company that makes poor quality keyboards and sells them to unsuspecting gamers through marketing BS... Let's partner with them to make an 'improved' version of our switch which is actually just the same as before so we can take advantage of their BS marketing and make even MORE money... Oh yeah!"
I mean if you're developing a new mechanical switch why make it exactly the same as the competition unless it's to get overflow sales through customer ignorance.
I admit that the lack of supply from Cherry has helped Kaihua's case, but it's still not what I would consider "ethical", just because it's "legal".
Note that Cherry MX switches have been almost impossible for some keyboard vendors to acquire at reasonable prices in the last few years, because Cherry either can’t keep up with demand or has a broken distribution system. (To the point that some companies were buying up old Cherry keyboards and desoldering all the switches to put in their own keyboards.)
From the perspective of a mechanical keyboard vendor, would you rather use an alternative source of switches, or just give up altogether on making your product?
It seems to me that Cherry has entirely failed to innovate on keyboard switches in the past 20 years, and their (IMO somewhat mediocre product) only hangs on because all the other keyswitch vendors got entirely out of the business when rubber domes took over. Cherry itself mostly markets rubber dome and scissor switch keyboards, with mechanical keyboards as an afterthought. The common prices of MX switches are absurdly high relative to production costs (though I hear some chinese OEMs can get Cherry switches for much cheaper, <20 cents/switch).
I personally think it’s great that Kaihua is breathing some new life into a stale market, and even trying to make some tweaks to improve the design. I wish they’d picked a better source switch (like SMK switches or Hi-Tek “space invaders” maybe), but I’ll take what we can get. Maybe some competition will force Cherry to improve their game.
Interesting. I made some tests with a keywell part of my Katy keyboard and the new process makes it a bit cheaper. The price went down from $92 to $62 (notice this is only for a part of the full case).
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/c-64-keyboard-reboot-t8851-30.html#p186407
I would like to know how they compute the price.
Sorry for the necro-bump, but I thought I'd give an update for anyone interested in flat key caps! I was able to have some printed and the concept more or less turned out how I wanted it too.
I'm in the process of building my own 3D printer so hopefully I'll be able to print a whole set of these at some point.I'll try to get a picture of them posted on here.
Picture:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/c0NmJ60.png)