NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]

[swill]

I would be concerned with its ductility, it may not hold up to mistreatment or even dropping very well.

I did a little research and it is basically the same hardness as aluminum.  Now maybe that is not comparing the exact aluminum alloy and copper alloy, but I would expect copper and aluminum to be pretty similar from that perspective.

[neverused]

Oh very nice. I think that'd be an awesome looking board

[Melvang]

I would be concerned with its ductility, it may not hold up to mistreatment or even dropping very well.

I did a little research and it is basically the same hardness as aluminum.  Now maybe that is not comparing the exact aluminum alloy and copper alloy, but I would expect copper and aluminum to be pretty similar from that perspective.

 You would want something to help with the structural integrity.  I believe the similarities in ductility are prior to tempering aluminum.  T6 aluminum gets pretty damn stiff.

[cmadrid]

Maybe BBS could add some example plates to their pricing examples?  That would be sweet

[phishy]

Alright awesome got it working now.  I had my default unit of measurement set to inches.  Also with copper, you could seal it, no?  I know it's been done with copper mech mods in the vaping community.  Or even cooler, do a forced patina on the copper.

[Dihedral]

Cherry wood wwould look nice, but only with cherry switches

[BigBlueSaw]

Copper will tarnish, but some people might like that look. I would worry about the ductility of copper in a structural piece like this.

Brass is popular with a certain crowd. We don't  have it listed on the website, but can definitely get it for you.

Phishy's top and bottom plate from aluminum is 0.527  pounds. With stainless steel, it's 1.44 pounds. Just the top plate is 0.192 pounds from Al, 0.53 from SS. I would think heavier would be better.

One thing I haven't mentioned so far: I would recommend that you go for Basic Finish when ordering, as it removes any burrs from cutting, and thus lets the switches fit more easily. With the unfinished piece, you would have to remove the burrs yourself, using a knife, or deburring tool. Or if you have the power tools, a flap wheel or polishing wheel.

[Melvang]

Copper will tarnish, but some people might like that look. I would worry about the ductility of copper in a structural piece like this.

Brass is popular with a certain crowd. We don't  have it listed on the website, but can definitely get it for you.

Phishy's top and bottom plate from aluminum is 0.527  pounds. With stainless steel, it's 1.44 pounds. Just the top plate is 0.192 pounds from Al, 0.53 from SS. I would think heavier would be better.

One thing I haven't mentioned so far: I would recommend that you go for Basic Finish when ordering, as it removes any burrs from cutting, and thus lets the switches fit more easily. With the unfinished piece, you would have to remove the burrs yourself, using a knife, or deburring tool. Or if you have the power tools, a flap wheel or polishing wheel.

Or if it is a smaller piece just a file or some good rough emery cloth.  That was what I used on my laser cut JD40.  The edge of laser cut holes grabs the switch like a vise.  I don't have much first hand with water jet though as the Ti JD40s haven't shipped yet.

[swill]

Copper will tarnish, but some people might like that look. I would worry about the ductility of copper in a structural piece like this.

Brass is popular with a certain crowd. We don't  have it listed on the website, but can definitely get it for you.

Phishy's top and bottom plate from aluminum is 0.527  pounds. With stainless steel, it's 1.44 pounds. Just the top plate is 0.192 pounds from Al, 0.53 from SS. I would think heavier would be better.

One thing I haven't mentioned so far: I would recommend that you go for Basic Finish when ordering, as it removes any burrs from cutting, and thus lets the switches fit more easily. With the unfinished piece, you would have to remove the burrs yourself, using a knife, or deburring tool. Or if you have the power tools, a flap wheel or polishing wheel.

Awesome, thanks for the info.  I think brass would be pretty awesome.  I may just go ahead and do my job in brass.  People need to know what it would look like right?    I have no problem being the guinea pig. 

[QuiGonJinn]

I am thinking of building my first mechanical keyboard, using this builder to laser cut the case, and hand-wire the matrix. I have ordered gateron brown switches with the gb. Can anyone confirm they fit the standard square cutout type?

[joey]

I am thinking of building my first mechanical keyboard, using this builder to laser cut the case, and hand-wire the matrix. I have ordered gateron brown switches with the gb. Can anyone confirm they fit the standard square cutout type?

Confirmed.

[swill]

Small update tonight.  A lot of people were having issues with their plates being in inches when they uploaded their plates to BBS and it was generating a lot of questions.  I killed two birds with one stone by adding a little note in the download section for how to modify the DXF file to include the 'mm' units of measure and in the process giving BBS a little plug.  They have been super supportive of the tool and all the people looking to get work done.  They have been a huge help, so I wanted to get them some direct links from the tool.

Here is what you can expect to see when your plate finishes rendering:



Thanks again for all the support everyone...

[jdcarpe]

Just have an option box for inches, and if selected, scale the drawing by 0.03937 before the final render?

[swill]

Just have an option box for inches, and if selected, scale the drawing by 0.03937 before the final render?

It is not as easy as you make it sound as far as I know.  Unless you know something I don't. 

The bigger problem is that the exported file does not include the units of measure.  So if the shops tools defaulted to 'mm' instead of inches, then we would have the same exact problem, but the other way.  If I could get the export to include the UOM, it would solve the problem at its source.

I will be working on this when I have a chance, but I am still trying to figure out how I am going to handle this.  I don't want to rewrite all the DXF export functionality in in FreeCAD to support R2000 or above.  That is a bigger job than I am willing to take on at this point.

[phishy]

Just have an option box for inches, and if selected, scale the drawing by 0.03937 before the final render?

It is not as easy as you make it sound as far as I know.  Unless you know something I don't. 

The bigger problem is that the exported file does not include the units of measure.  So if the shops tools defaulted to 'mm' instead of inches, then we would have the same exact problem, but the other way.  If I could get the export to include the UOM, it would solve the problem at its source.

I will be working on this when I have a chance, but I am still trying to figure out how I am going to handle this.  I don't want to rewrite all the DXF export functionality in in FreeCAD to support R2000 or above.  That is a bigger job than I am willing to take on at this point.

Since librecad is free and most people even attempting to build their own keyboard should have the aptitude to open a file, change default UOM and re-save before uploading I don't think it will be a huge problem.

[MichaelBrock]

Thank you for this amazing tool!  Quite a lot of effort has been put into it.   I managed to get a quote from Big Blue Saw (thanks also for the tips on converting the units, that was causing an issue) but it is more than I want to spend right now.  I am now trying to get a quote from Ponoko but they require that the cut lines be in blue.   I am new to CAD and I'm having trouble editing the individual elements of the .dxf file to change the line color (eg. I can't figure out how to select anything but the entire plate).   I am using the suggested LibreCAD.  Any tips?


Thanks,

Michael

[bueller]

Copper will tarnish, but some people might like that look. I would worry about the ductility of copper in a structural piece like this.

Brass is popular with a certain crowd. We don't  have it listed on the website, but can definitely get it for you.

Phishy's top and bottom plate from aluminum is 0.527  pounds. With stainless steel, it's 1.44 pounds. Just the top plate is 0.192 pounds from Al, 0.53 from SS. I would think heavier would be better.

One thing I haven't mentioned so far: I would recommend that you go for Basic Finish when ordering, as it removes any burrs from cutting, and thus lets the switches fit more easily. With the unfinished piece, you would have to remove the burrs yourself, using a knife, or deburring tool. Or if you have the power tools, a flap wheel or polishing wheel.

Now that you've mentioned brass you've given me an idea for one of my cases. On the base of the case is a cutout for a brass plate (150mm x 60mm x 2mm) - if I had you cut the plate would you also be able to do laser engraving on it? I'd really like to get the Cherry logo and a serial number put on there

[jdcarpe]

Thank you for this amazing tool!  Quite a lot of effort has been put into it.   I managed to get a quote from Big Blue Saw (thanks also for the tips on converting the units, that was causing an issue) but it is more than I want to spend right now.  I am now trying to get a quote from Ponoko but they require that the cut lines be in blue.   I am new to CAD and I'm having trouble editing the individual elements of the .dxf file to change the line color (eg. I can't figure out how to select anything but the entire plate).   I am using the suggested LibreCAD.  Any tips?


Thanks,

Michael

What you most likely need to do is to export the DXF into an SVG and change the colors there. You could edit the SVG with Adobe Illustrator, Corel Draw, or similar.

[BigBlueSaw]

On the base of the case is a cutout for a brass plate (150mm x 60mm x 2mm) - if I had you cut the plate would you also be able to do laser engraving on it?

We don't have a good way to engrave brass.

[bueller]

On the base of the case is a cutout for a brass plate (150mm x 60mm x 2mm) - if I had you cut the plate would you also be able to do laser engraving on it?

We don't have a good way to engrave brass.

Not a problem, thanks for the prompt reply! You'll still be seeing an order from me soon, want to get the brass plate cut and will also be doing a mini GB for some number pad switch plates.

[jdcarpe]

On the base of the case is a cutout for a brass plate (150mm x 60mm x 2mm) - if I had you cut the plate would you also be able to do laser engraving on it?

We don't have a good way to engrave brass.

Not a problem, thanks for the prompt reply! You'll still be seeing an order from me soon, want to get the brass plate cut and will also be doing a mini GB for some number pad switch plates.

I don't think it's possible to laser engrave brass, but if you want to send it to me, I will see what I can do with our engraver (Gravograph IS-7000). I'll ask the lady who runs that engraver if she has any bits that will work on brass.

[bueller]

On the base of the case is a cutout for a brass plate (150mm x 60mm x 2mm) - if I had you cut the plate would you also be able to do laser engraving on it?

We don't have a good way to engrave brass.

Not a problem, thanks for the prompt reply! You'll still be seeing an order from me soon, want to get the brass plate cut and will also be doing a mini GB for some number pad switch plates.

I don't think it's possible to laser engrave brass, but if you want to send it to me, I will see what I can do with our engraver (Gravograph IS-7000). I'll ask the lady who runs that engraver if she has any bits that will work on brass.

Cheers man, really appreciate it!

[phishy]

On the base of the case is a cutout for a brass plate (150mm x 60mm x 2mm) - if I had you cut the plate would you also be able to do laser engraving on it?

We don't have a good way to engrave brass.

Not a problem, thanks for the prompt reply! You'll still be seeing an order from me soon, want to get the brass plate cut and will also be doing a mini GB for some number pad switch plates.

Since posting in your numpad thread I've been looking into designing and making a numpad kit to offer up...if you want to link up maybe we can combine what both of us are looking into.

[Dihedral]

I 3D printed two of the second cutout. Cherry switches fit in really nicely, but matias ones need just a little more room, I can't get them in. Otherwise, good job

EDIT: I got the Matias switch in and it works OK. Still probably could do with being a little looser for easier operation.

[swill]

Thank you for this amazing tool!  Quite a lot of effort has been put into it.   I managed to get a quote from Big Blue Saw (thanks also for the tips on converting the units, that was causing an issue) but it is more than I want to spend right now.  I am now trying to get a quote from Ponoko but they require that the cut lines be in blue.   I am new to CAD and I'm having trouble editing the individual elements of the .dxf file to change the line color (eg. I can't figure out how to select anything but the entire plate).   I am using the suggested LibreCAD.  Any tips?


Thanks,

Michael

What you most likely need to do is to export the DXF into an SVG and change the colors there. You could edit the SVG with Adobe Illustrator, Corel Draw, or similar.

Or just turn on the 'Export SVG' feature in my tool and just download the SVG that is produced and then change the color in AI or Inkscape or the like...

[swill]

I 3D printed two of the second cutout. Cherry switches fit in really nicely, but matias ones need just a little more room, I can't get them in. Otherwise, good job

EDIT: I got the Matias switch in and it works OK. Still probably could do with being a little looser for easier operation.

We had a similar experience in testing with BBS, I need to revisit that cutout and find an Alps spec so I can verify what their spec says.  I was only using JD as a reference for that cutout shape.

[Dihedral]

I 3D printed two of the second cutout. Cherry switches fit in really nicely, but matias ones need just a little more room, I can't get them in. Otherwise, good job

EDIT: I got the Matias switch in and it works OK. Still probably could do with being a little looser for easier operation.

We had a similar experience in testing with BBS, I need to revisit that cutout and find an Alps spec so I can verify what their spec says.  I was only using JD as a reference for that cutout shape.

It literally needs another quarter of a mm each side and it would be fine.

[swill]

I 3D printed two of the second cutout. Cherry switches fit in really nicely, but matias ones need just a little more room, I can't get them in. Otherwise, good job

EDIT: I got the Matias switch in and it works OK. Still probably could do with being a little looser for easier operation.

We had a similar experience in testing with BBS, I need to revisit that cutout and find an Alps spec so I can verify what their spec says.  I was only using JD as a reference for that cutout shape.

It literally needs another quarter of a mm each side and it would be fine.

Once you have a working cutout, can you check its width with a caliper so I have an idea of what dimensions are working?  Thx...

[Dihedral]

I 3D printed two of the second cutout. Cherry switches fit in really nicely, but matias ones need just a little more room, I can't get them in. Otherwise, good job

EDIT: I got the Matias switch in and it works OK. Still probably could do with being a little looser for easier operation.

We had a similar experience in testing with BBS, I need to revisit that cutout and find an Alps spec so I can verify what their spec says.  I was only using JD as a reference for that cutout shape.

It literally needs another quarter of a mm each side and it would be fine.

Once you have a working cutout, can you check its width with a caliper so I have an idea of what dimensions are working?  Thx...

I'm afraid I don't have access to a caliper. I might try to sand down the cutout until it reaches the perfect size and see if I can measure the amount of change, but that would only be with a ruler, i'm afraid :/

[swill]

Once you have a working cutout, can you check its width with a caliper so I have an idea of what dimensions are working?  Thx...

I'm afraid I don't have access to a caliper. I might try to sand down the cutout until it reaches the perfect size and see if I can measure the amount of change, but that would only be with a ruler, i'm afraid :/

No worries.  I will try to track down the alps spec tonight after work and see if I can figure out why the sizing is not working.  Thx...

[Dihedral]

Once you have a working cutout, can you check its width with a caliper so I have an idea of what dimensions are working?  Thx...

I'm afraid I don't have access to a caliper. I might try to sand down the cutout until it reaches the perfect size and see if I can measure the amount of change, but that would only be with a ruler, i'm afraid :/

No worries.  I will try to track down the alps spec tonight after work and see if I can figure out why the sizing is not working.  Thx...

I was wondering that and suspect that the sizing is accurate, just the Alps spec is particularly tight and intended for high accuracy metal cutting. I imagine that 3D printed material slightly flows past the point where it is supposed to be placed, meaning the cutout would be just a fraction of a millimetre small.

[swill]

Once you have a working cutout, can you check its width with a caliper so I have an idea of what dimensions are working?  Thx...

I'm afraid I don't have access to a caliper. I might try to sand down the cutout until it reaches the perfect size and see if I can measure the amount of change, but that would only be with a ruler, i'm afraid :/

No worries.  I will try to track down the alps spec tonight after work and see if I can figure out why the sizing is not working.  Thx...

I was wondering that and suspect that the sizing is accurate, just the Alps spec is particularly tight and intended for high accuracy metal cutting. I imagine that 3D printed material slightly flows past the point where it is supposed to be placed, meaning the cutout would be just a fraction of a millimetre small.

I suspect something similar.  With the test plate that BBS and I were testing, the cutout was only 15.5mm wide instead of 15.6mm and it was stopping the action of the switch once set in the plate, so the tolerances we are working with here are definitely might tighter than with working with MX.  I may need to make it a bit bigger just to be sure that the tolerances are not so tight.

[jdcarpe]

I have an Alps switch opening CAD drawing that seems to use Imperial measurements (0.510 x 0.615 inches) converted to metric (12.9539 x 15.6211 mm). So maybe the tightness is due to rounding errors?

[Melvang]

I have an Alps switch opening CAD drawing that seems to use Imperial measurements (0.510 x 0.615 inches) converted to metric (12.9539 x 15.6211 mm). So maybe the tightness is due to rounding errors?

Combination of rounding errors on top of kerf?

[swill]

I have an Alps switch opening CAD drawing that seems to use Imperial measurements (0.510 x 0.615 inches) converted to metric (12.9539 x 15.6211 mm). So maybe the tightness is due to rounding errors?

I dont think it would be a rounding error since it is programmed in my tool to be 15.6 x 12.8.  The initial results produced by BBS were a hair smaller than the drawing.  It was closer to 15.5 x 12.7, so I think the tolerances for Alps is just really tight and I may want to adjust my drawing a bit to account for this.

JD, do you happen to have a plate cut with that cutout that you know works with alps?  If so, can you put a caliper on it and give me an idea of what the final dimension of that cutout ended up being?

[jdcarpe]

I have an Alps switch opening CAD drawing that seems to use Imperial measurements (0.510 x 0.615 inches) converted to metric (12.9539 x 15.6211 mm). So maybe the tightness is due to rounding errors?

I dont think it would be a rounding error since it is programmed in my tool to be 15.6 x 12.8.  The initial results produced by BBS were a hair smaller than the drawing.  It was closer to 15.5 x 12.7, so I think the tolerances for Alps is just really tight and I may want to adjust my drawing a bit to account for this.

JD, do you happen to have a plate cut with that cutout that you know works with alps?  If so, can you put a caliper on it and give me an idea of what the final dimension of that cutout ended up being?

I have plates with my cutout (not the one you drew up to the actual spec), and factory Alps plates, but no calipers.


If I were to purchase some calipers from, say, Amazon, what do you guys recommend that wouldn't break the bank?

[Dihedral]

Images for the interested (gallery):

[Dihedral]

I have an Alps switch opening CAD drawing that seems to use Imperial measurements (0.510 x 0.615 inches) converted to metric (12.9539 x 15.6211 mm). So maybe the tightness is due to rounding errors?

I dont think it would be a rounding error since it is programmed in my tool to be 15.6 x 12.8.  The initial results produced by BBS were a hair smaller than the drawing.  It was closer to 15.5 x 12.7, so I think the tolerances for Alps is just really tight and I may want to adjust my drawing a bit to account for this.

JD, do you happen to have a plate cut with that cutout that you know works with alps?  If so, can you put a caliper on it and give me an idea of what the final dimension of that cutout ended up being?

I have plates with my cutout (not the one you drew up to the actual spec), and factory Alps plates, but no calipers.


If I were to purchase some calipers from, say, Amazon, what do you guys recommend that wouldn't break the bank?

I don't know anything, but this has sold enough to presumably not suck. (Sorry for uk link, im sure its on US too.)

[jdcarpe]

Okay, I just bought these, which should arrive on Saturday. I'll get some measurements for you then, swill.

[Dihedral]

Okay, I just bought these, which should arrive on Saturday. I'll get some measurements for you then, swill.

That's a hell of a discount!

[swill]

Okay, I just bought these, which should arrive on Saturday. I'll get some measurements for you then, swill.

Awesome. 

I actually use one of the old school calipers.  This thing has been through thick and thin with me.  I love the simplicity of it. 

It is something like this: http://www.technologystudent.com/equip1/vernier3.htm

[CPTBadAss]

I'm all about that Mitutoyo. Got a set of dial calipers from them. I prefer dial to the vernier scale...and digital.

[jdcarpe]

I'm all about that Mitutoyo. Got a set of dial calipers from them. I prefer dial to the vernier scale...and digital.

One day, sir. For right now, these were $27.

[cmadrid]

Okay, I just bought these, which should arrive on Saturday. I'll get some measurements for you then, swill.

This is wallethack!?

http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-64PKA077-Digimatic-Micrometer-0-150mm/dp/B001C15WJ0/ref=sr_1_7?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1424979532&sr=1-7&keywords=micrometers

[cmadrid]

I mean.. there is NO WAY that price is legit.. but wow


edit: Ah, wait, its for 64 of them.   GROUPBUY!

[swornxin]

I've kind of figured out a plate to use strictly as a lubing station.  Do you think that I can get away with using a type of plastic as the plate material for that?  The aluminum and stainless steel is just too expensive for me to justify it.

This program is really incredible, Swill.  Thanks for taking the time to create and share it with us all!

[swill]

I've kind of figured out a plate to use strictly as a lubing station.  Do you think that I can get away with using a type of plastic as the plate material for that?  The aluminum and stainless steel is just too expensive for me to justify it.

This program is really incredible, Swill.  Thanks for taking the time to create and share it with us all!

The short answer is, it depends.

If you are only just lubing, then probably. But once you get into building you will start to want to do more in depth mods.

For example. If you use sip sockets, then you will need to put the LEDs in before you solder. This makes the most sense to do in your lube station. Unfortunately, the LEDs don't always easily go into the sip sockets initially. This means that sometimes have to use quite a bit if force.

Once I get the baby down I will quickly draw you an example lube station design you could make out of plastic and I will explain my thought process in more detail.

[swornxin]

I've kind of figured out a plate to use strictly as a lubing station.  Do you think that I can get away with using a type of plastic as the plate material for that?  The aluminum and stainless steel is just too expensive for me to justify it.

This program is really incredible, Swill.  Thanks for taking the time to create and share it with us all!

The short answer is, it depends.

If you are only just lubing, then probably. But once you get into building you will start to want to do more in depth mods.

For example. If you use sip sockets, then you will need to put the LEDs in before you solder. This makes the most sense to do in your lube station. Unfortunately, the LEDs don't always easily go into the sip sockets initially. This means that sometimes have to use quite a bit if force.

Once I get the baby down I will quickly draw you an example lube station design you could make out of plastic and I will explain my thought process in more detail.

I was actually planning on using it as a switch opening station as well, only because I find it much easier to open when the switches are inside a plate.  I'll be opening, swapping springs, lubing, and installing SIP sockets for my next build though.  Maybe I'll want to splurge and get an aluminum version.

[phishy]

I've kind of figured out a plate to use strictly as a lubing station.  Do you think that I can get away with using a type of plastic as the plate material for that?  The aluminum and stainless steel is just too expensive for me to justify it.

This program is really incredible, Swill.  Thanks for taking the time to create and share it with us all!

The short answer is, it depends.

If you are only just lubing, then probably. But once you get into building you will start to want to do more in depth mods.

For example. If you use sip sockets, then you will need to put the LEDs in before you solder. This makes the most sense to do in your lube station. Unfortunately, the LEDs don't always easily go into the sip sockets initially. This means that sometimes have to use quite a bit if force.

Once I get the baby down I will quickly draw you an example lube station design you could make out of plastic and I will explain my thought process in more detail.

I was actually planning on using it as a switch opening station as well, only because I find it much easier to open when the switches are inside a plate.  I'll be opening, swapping springs, lubing, and installing SIP sockets for my next build though.  Maybe I'll want to splurge and get an aluminum version.

They key (if your using big blue saw) is to try to find atleast 4 other people interested to really knock that price down.

[swill]

So if I was going to build a lube station out of plastic, this is how I would do it. 

I would do this switch layer in 0.063" (1.6mm) plastic using the standard Alps + MX switch cutout so I could open the switches in the lube station (this is a required feature of any lube station IMO).

It would look like this.  I did a layout with 90 switches since I don't care about anything over a TKL in size:



Now the main problem with this is that it will not be strong enough to support force if you have to insert LEDs into sip sockets and such.  To add support I would add the following layer under it.

This would be a supporting layer using 0.25" (6.35mm) plastic with a square cutout which has been expanded to 16x16 so it does not interfere with the clipping into the plate layer.



In my drawings I have actually created the holes at 2.5mm with the intent to tap the holes and then just screw the two pieces together with M3 screws.

Looking at the materials that BBS offers, I think one of the following would be worth considering for this application.
- Acetal Plastic, Black (0.063" + 0.25")
- PETG Plastic, Clear (0.063" + 0.25")

I would have to check with BBS to see which they would recommend for this.

Does this all make sense?